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Odd Man out... Who will IT be..?

Our QB situation is beginning to sound like something out of a soap opera. I'm talking about the real World, it has been something of a soap opera on this site for a while.

What we know right now is that we have Jason Campbell ( He isnt Christ just cause his initals are JC...LJP),         Rex "The Hex" Grossssssman, and Colt Brennan on the roster for the time being. With that said, there is a lot back ground chatter going on about the three top rookie prospects in the draft. What we know is that                                 Tim " The Saint" Tebow and Sam Bradford are not coming here for workouts. We also know that Jimmy Clausen was swooned over by Danny boy and the VINmyster a few months back.


The plays made towards the rookies could all be political. It could all be draft postering with a few tricks up the sleeve. If it is'nt. If they do intend on grabbing one of these rookies who will be the QB that gets the cut.

Only the FO knows for sure what plays they are going to make but I am posing a question to you all.. What if they have a team wanting to bite on Campbells tender? If one of those teams that were considering the use of a #1 pick for a QB are considering the trade for a veteran instead. Im not saying that this is what will happen but it would be a cheaper choice for a team than paying multi millions for an unsure draft pick that they will be stuck with. At least with Campbell they know what they are getting.

Or will it be Colt or Rex? Will one of them be cut after the preseason games if we do draft a rookie. Who knows...

I personally DON'T like any of the three ROOKIEs...

One thing for sure is that what ever the team looked like last year, for better or worse, will not look at all like the same team this year. All I have to say to that is THANK GOD!!!! 

Poll
If we do Draft a QB, Who will be the ODD man OUT..??
Jason Cambell (For the Trade)
60 votes
Jason Campbell ( CUT )
2 votes
Colt Brennan (Cut)
85 votes
Hex Grosssss man (CUT)
23 votes

170 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 121 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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WOW...

I cannot believe there is a post about our future QB and noone has gone on attack mode… Can it be? Have we actually found peace in the QB race…

" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "

by milcmann on Mar 20, 2010 6:36 PM EDT reply actions  

drama

it’s here, well up above as the title…

No drama because it’s a well written thoughtful post

by dr WNC on Mar 21, 2010 7:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

It depends on which QB we draft

If we draft bradford or clausen, JC is obviously the odd man out. Only problem is we’re not going to get a great trade for him so personally I see it as a waste of a pick when we have other needs. The highest we’d get is probably a 3rd.

If we were to draft Pike, McCoy or another QB in the later rounds, then Colt is the odd man out. I just don’t see Shannahan wasting a roster spot where we could have another Olineman.

by Nobetterthenbob on Mar 20, 2010 8:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Good point.

If it’s Bradford or Clausen, I think the odd man out is Campbell in a trade to get another pick to solidify the o-line. I think we can easily get a 2nd for him though.

If it’s a later round QB, I think it’s Colt is out too.

by SSBlitz on Mar 20, 2010 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

And don't forget

Having two Colts on the QB depth chart would be really tacky. If we draft McCoy, we’re pretty much obligated to cut Brennan.

by kseandoyle on Mar 22, 2010 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

We could be like John Wayne.....

with 2 Colts on our hips!!!! Bang Bang……hahaha

by shvd98z24 on Mar 24, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree that it depends on IF, and who they draft.

There remains a strong probability that they don’t draft a QB. The landscape has changed dramatically in the last 2 weeks. The Grossman signing could be an acknowledgement that Campbell won’t be dealt, and they may wait for next year to addresss the position.
Campbell’s value has dropped greatly since free agency started, and he and his agent must be disappointed. The Seahawks traded for and signed Whitehurst, a QB for 5M/yr, and he has never taken an NFL snap. The Browns signed a relic in Delhomme for 12M over 2 years. The Broncos acquired Quinn, the Cards signed Derek Anderson. Also McNabb and Vick are still in play. The Buffalo Bills and St Louis Rams are the only teams to not have addressed the QB issue, and they look to do that with the draft.
Campbell does not look tradeable at this point, and his value has taken a huge hit.
I think the organization has realized there is no market for Campbell, and moved to secure Grossman heading into the season. I believe they have moved onto plan B.

by johnnydee83 on Mar 21, 2010 1:34 AM EDT reply actions  

The Grossman aquisition could

Also mean they are looking to get rid of Campbell. Shanny knows that he is on the Snyder time clock. If he is wanting to build a playoff calibur team by the end of the 3 year window he may be thinking about getting rid of Campbell for a young buck. If you are looking at it from a business stand point Campbell could be a severe liability in three years. That would have him at 8 years in at the end of his career. They may feel that investing in the future QB may be something to do now. I am only saying that in the business standpoint. I think personally that none of these QBs are gonna pan out to be much. Bradford could have but he is now an injury prone with his shoulder.

" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "

by milcmann on Mar 21, 2010 7:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Get rid of Campbell to who? And for what?

    We don’t know how they feel about Bradford or Claussen. The price to get Bradford looks very high, and Claussen disappointed several teams during the interview session at the combine. Shanahan may not be able to pry Bradford away from the Rams even if he wants him, and we just know how he views Claussen. I am of the opinion that Claussen is not an option at 4.
     I am not even sure if they could get a 3rd round pick for Campbell now. St Louis is still possible in a multi player-pick deal, and Buffalo appears headed toward drafting a QB. I see no other teams willing to part with a draft pick for JC now.
     I think Shanahan and Allen have the full 5 years to turn this around. The team has to de-leverage 10 years of bad decisions and contracts. They may flat-line before positive growth occurs. Playoffs in 3 years, other than a wildcard bounce-out, may be unlikely, 4-5 looks a safer bet.
      IMO drafting a QB other then Bradford is a waste of a pick this year. A 2nd or 4th round pick will need 2 years to develope, and the team needs starters now. With so many immediate holes, they need every pick to be an immediate contributor.

by johnnydee83 on Mar 21, 2010 11:27 AM EDT reply actions  

I agree...

I know Campbells tender was a little high but when you are trying to negotiate a deal you always start higher than expected. Who knows what other teams are really looking for. Its obvious that teams like the Patriots are looking for a competent back up for Brady. But the package would have to be substantially lower for him to be traded as a back up. Dunno…

All im saying is that they are playing at something. There is al lot of strategy behind getting the players you want in the draft…

" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "

by milcmann on Mar 21, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yep, that's the rub. Bradford and Okung no longer look like options at 4.

    Not saying I know what direction they want to go in. But we have to presume that one of those 2 players is their primary target. The trade down also seems less likely as all these other teams have solidified their QB positions.
    Good call on the Patriots, not sure where they stand on a back-up. I would think they must like the kid or they would have already moved on a back-up by now. It’s hard to believe that JC is a back-up option at this point. Still, I think a 3rd rd pick is all he will get. I also think the Patriots might burn one of their 2nd rd picks on a QB, Tebow or McCoy?
    I think the Skins stategy at this point is to wait and see what develops at the QB position. If they really like Bradford after his workout, they may make a hard push to trade-up for him, or just hold onto Campbell, and draft Best Player Available; Suh, McCoy, Berry.

by johnnydee83 on Mar 21, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dont know

I dont know that the Pats would take a QB in the Draft. For some reason rookies are expencive.. Once the cap returns that would be a lot of money on just QBs.. Plus Brady has at least five more years in him… seems like they would not want to sign expencive talent for no reason… Unless Brady gets hurt.. ofcourse.. Thats why I think they they may try and make a trade for a useable Vet..

" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "

by milcmann on Mar 21, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Since the Pats don't NEED a QB.

I’d be surprised to see them take one in the second round. The only QB that should go in the second is McCoy.
I could definitely see the Pats taking another QB, if they like one, but not until the 3rd or 4th.

by SSBlitz on Mar 21, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I do know they like Tebow, or at least publicly said so.

And Tebow will be gone in the 2nd somewhere, IMO, same with McCoy.
But, you’re right, the Patriots don’t need to draft a QB yet.
The 3rd round could see another 3-4 QBs taken.

by johnnydee83 on Mar 21, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Pats are about drafting value

And not reaching for ‘shiny’ players. If Tebow were to fall to 3, I think the Pats could draft him. They have a bunch of picks around there too.
Skelton or Lefevour would be my bets for them.

by SSBlitz on Mar 21, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Very possible.

Other teams likely to draft a mid-round QB include Minnesota, Cleveland, Seattle, Jacksonville, Buffalo-if they don’t get Claussen, Pittsburgh-now with the Big Ben Blunder, St Louis-if no Bradford, Cincinatti, New Orleans, and possibly others looking to groom a future QB. There will be a run on the remaining QBs in the late 2nd and 3rd rounds as teams want to secure them before they are gone.

by johnnydee83 on Mar 21, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tender is high?

Seattle just took a guy who’s never played in the NFL, and is paying him 5 million
How can the Tender be too high for Campbell, unless Campbell is not worth the tender

by dr WNC on Mar 21, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seattle also gave up 20 spots in the draft.....

and an additional 3rd in 2011. For a 3rd string QB who has never taken an NFL snap.
Yet, to my knowledge, Seattle, or any other team for that matter, even made a play for Campbell. The Browns signed washed-up Jake Delhomme to a 2 year deal at 12M for God’s sakes. The Arizona Cardinals, who are a playoff team looking to go further, signed Derek Anderson of all people to challenge Matt Leinart. The Broncos now have Brady Quinn to go with Kyle Orton. There really is not many options to move Campbell.
With the unlikelyhood of drafting Bradford, JC might be here by default.
Still, it also looks like Grossman will get an even opportunity to battle for the starter’s spot. He knows the system, is a good practice player, and with his arm, he will give JC a good fight for the #1 spot. Things have turned upside down in the last 2 weeks.
Campbell, it should be noted, is saying and doing all the right things.

by johnnydee83 on Mar 21, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well...

I dont know if I can say it IMO any better than you just did DOC… If these teams are jumping at Anderson and sorry ass brady quinn and QBs that have never played in the NFL and are paying a lot more than what we are asking for Campbell… What does that tell you… It tells me that the “The Milks Gone Bad”. I know for thing that Campbell has played better than Quinn. How is it then that Quinn goes and Campbell doesnt…

Someone please explain that to me

" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "

by milcmann on Mar 21, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Um...

Brady Quinn got traded for Hillis, a 6th rounder, and a conditional pick.

Jason is tendered to a first-round pick, which is significantly more expensive. And we haven’t tried to trade him.

by SSBlitz on Mar 21, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

so lets add this up.... a player + a pick + another pick = 3 players

How much could 3 players be worth? I mean I know we could use extra picks… Compared to the one first rounder….hummmmmm… yeah thats more…. I dont know maybe you forgot to carry the one in your math or something

" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "

by milcmann on Mar 21, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

By the way....

If you tender someone that means you are throwing him out there to be traded… If they really wanted to keep him he would of had a contract already.. Wouldn’t he?

" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "

by milcmann on Mar 21, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not necessarily

It’s a good way to test the market and give Jason a fair contract. He can’t complain if we match the highest bidder. I have a feeling that teams went after the likes of Quinn, Anderson and Delhomme because in reality Jason is not on the market. They will keep him, use FA to establish a fair price for him and he will start ahead of Rexxy. They will draft a QB next year after seeing what Jason and Rexxy do this coming year.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Mar 21, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thats a possibility but

not too realistic. IMO They put him out there at a blown out rate so they could negotiateeasier.. Yeah sure they have the opportunity to match the offer but i just dont really think that that is what they are gonna do. They are building for the future of the team. If they wanted to keep him they would have just given him an extension… My opinion ofcourse…

" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "

by milcmann on Mar 21, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe you forgot this a football team, not pokemon cards.

The idea is to get better, quality players, not as many players as you can.

by SSBlitz on Mar 21, 2010 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

True... But if you are trying to

Rebuild a team from the ground up as we are more picks are always wanted..

" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "

by milcmann on Mar 22, 2010 7:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ground up?

I don’t think we are that lost of a cause. Our Oline needs to be built from the ground up but we only have a few holes to fill and a few questions that need to be answered.

by Nobetterthenbob on Mar 22, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

when you

can only name 8 players that will deff start this year that started last year, you are rebuilding gound up… Thats offense and Defense together… We have more holes than a doughnut shop.

O line + 5
RB + 1 (unless Portis got new wheels)
WR + 1 (One short)
DL + 1
FS + 1
DB +1

Thats 10 players that we need in starting positions… Yeah Ground up…

" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "

by milcmann on Mar 22, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well Rabach and Dockery are starting.
Portis (Johnson) is starting, whether or not we get another RB in the draft.
We do need a ‘starting’ 4th or 5th WR.
We’re good at CB.

That’s only 4 or 5 starters we need:
FS, LT, RT, DE, (RG if you don’t count our two new guard pickups).

by SSBlitz on Mar 22, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

RG if you don’t count our two new guard pickups

Yeah count em.. it was a hole and we got it filled…

Still need the backups for all of those positions.. Thats what killed us the most… Not just the fact that those guys got injured it was the fact that we didnt have the backups..

Cp and LJ may work but we still need a youngster back there..

still need a CB to match Hall… I dont feel Rogers is good enough..

My point wasnt to say what we still need.. It was to explain how we are in full rebuild… I understand that most of these changes will take place in 2-3 years… If you are filling these holes to be stronger for the future you have to get them in the draft.

" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "

by milcmann on Mar 22, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right now?

I can say more than 10.

Hall, Fletcher, Orakpo, Macintosh, Haynesworth, Campbell, Dockery, Rabach, Moss, Thomas, Portis, Cooley.

These are the people who are penciled in ATM but draft and trades can change any team no matter what position they are in.

by Nobetterthenbob on Mar 22, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

So you are saying right now with all that is going on

That Campbell will deff get a start… HYow can you say that when you dont even know if he will be here… I hope it pans out that he does but you cannot say without a doubt… Portis? really? Dont know that that is even a lock…

Reguardless there are 22 players that start between O and D… That is a total of 12 that need to come from somewhere…Thank you though for prooving my point…. :)

" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "

by milcmann on Mar 22, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

These are the people who are penciled in ATM but draft and trades can change any team no matter what position they are in

With our roster right now, yeah campbell is gonna start and portis is more than likely as well. I had to rush the post cuz I had to leave my computer for a moment but Landry, Rodgers, and Kemoeatu are more than likely the starters as well. We also have depth on the Dline for rotation, depth at SS, a capable 2nd RB, another starting TE, a good back up QB and a potential 3rd WR. Where we really need help/ depth is the Oline, the LB corps, FS, another CB and possibly a change of pace RB. You are really exaggerating the entire team and not looking at the real positions of need.

by Nobetterthenbob on Mar 22, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

so now

you are saying we only need 8 holes that need filling. The Titanic sunk with less.

Kemoeatu, Johnson are recent additions… So they count towards the numbers of holes that are getting rebuilt… If you are basically changing half the players on offense and changing the entire scheme of the Defense then you are with out a doubt rebuilding from the ground up.

Our secondary sucked last year so to say that Landry and Rodgers are dead locks might be incorrect. We have Horton that is gonna want his job back and Berry is a possible draw for Shanny to pick up.. Its not often that a player like him comes around..

" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "

by milcmann on Mar 22, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thank god you agree with that

I’m pretty high on berry because I see the problems with our secondary defined by 2 points.
1. Lack of a true FS
2. The defensive scheme last year

Getting a capable starter at the FS position moves Landry back to his natural position (were he was a good starter when Taylor was playing) and will help tremendously in our secondary.

I don’t see RB as a hole since we all know Shannahan can take basically any RB and make him into a 1000 yard rusher. Johnson can still has the talent to rack up 100 games and a late rounder or an undrafted FA could come in and potentially be a great success.

The change to the 3-4 made 2 holes. LB and DE. The DE spot is not as important as we can put in one of our DTs and have success. The LB position depends on what we do with McIntosh. LB can still be filled with FA or the draft though.

What is the true rebuilding project is the Oline. We now have some decent depth and a potential starter, but we are lacking true starting talent.

Over all, there are still a lot of questions and I think you might be confused on what I’m trying to get at. I don’t believe we are contenders in the post season spot. If the cards fall into our lap we could possibly contend for a wildcard spot, but there is no way we are making a post season run. We aren’t in a rebuilding stage either. We have talent on both sides of the ball to build around and players that can be probowlers. So to sum up, we are in a “let’s see what we have” stage. So we address what we can for the rest of the offseason, go in with a few holes and come out knowing exactly what to address next offseason.

by Nobetterthenbob on Mar 22, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

My God I love this post...

We are 87 comments in and still honest to God good discussion with no real drama… I wonder why that is……… Who has not been on this board to start up the drama at all…….hummmmmm….. Someone is missing here..

I think we are both agreeing that the areas that need tweeking may very well take two draft seasons to fill. I dont know how this season is gonna pan out (OUR SCHEDULE SUCKS ASS) but we will have something nice im sure in year three of the process… I deff say we need Berry.. You cannot pass on a great first seed safety when you do actually need one.

" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "

by milcmann on Mar 22, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I say we draft berry unless

Okung is on the board. We have to draft someone this year to play Oline or else there is no point in keeping Campbell another year.

We are 87 comments in and still honest to God good discussion with no real drama…

ghost rider/CHAOS-BRINGER/Hellskin/some other name did leave a comment, although it was nothing too out of the ordinary so it can’t be him.

by Nobetterthenbob on Mar 22, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

We can and have to pass on Berry

Yeah, he could be great, and it would be awesome to have another great piece on our defense. But you rarely have the chance to put a cornerstone on your offensive line like the chance we have right now, and that, combined with our decade-long ignoring of building a young, steady, talented line pretty much pigeonhole our options (in my opinion).
Even if Shanahan wants to replace Campbell, it’s just not smart to pass on an O-lineman who could become a 10-year star(ter). I’ll forgive it if he drafts Bradford, even though I like and want to keep Campbell, just because that guy is so freaking good. But other than that, it’s got to be a great OLineman.

by kseandoyle on Mar 22, 2010 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

You mean the straw?

How is the drink being stirred!?

by SSBlitz on Mar 23, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

The way to restore Campbell's value:

I wouldn’t say it’s the only way, but with a better offensive line and running game Campbell’s performance might move up from the middle of the pack in the NFL QBs to maybe the top quarter. I not optimistic enough to see him as an elite potential. Let’s say his NFL rating of 87.7 moves up 5 points to 92.7, that only moves him over a couple of QBs (all other things being equal) and he still would be in the mid-range of QBs. A 10 point increase would place him about 7th. Increased touchdowns and decreased sacks would be the easiest way for him to move up. His percentage of completions would not need to increase much. These kind of goals seem obtainable: + six TDs and – 15 sacks.

by Jefferson1935 on Mar 21, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep, the problem also is that the offense doesn't look like it will be much better this year.

Even if they get Okung, the learning curve with him will likely make him adequate at best. The rest of the line is also only just adequate. Learning a whole new offensive system is probably going to have severe growing pains and struggles. The running game is a big question mark with an aging Portis/Johnson. The young receivers have yet to prove themselves. This year is shaping up as a big struggle to move the ball. It’s a unit in transition, and it’s difficult to expect Campbell or anyone putting up very good numbers. Given JC’s skill-set, and the lack of talent around him, it’s hard to envision him in the top 10 this year or next.

by johnnydee83 on Mar 21, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm a little more optimistic, Johhny

We were TERRIBLE last year from Coaching to Play Calling to Injuries. If we are merely pretty good with an improved running game and pass protection, I could see Jason’s stats coming in around Jefferson’s prediction. It’s not that big of a stretch given last year’s “challenges.”

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Mar 21, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Challenges? lol

A challenge would be the grocery store running out of you favorite beer.. A challenge would be making Koolaid with no sugar or wanting a sandwich and not having any bread… last year was a damned disaster… Pompei and the 09 skins hit the richter scale with the same magnatude…

" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "

by milcmann on Mar 21, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was wondering who would pick up on that!

Nice Pompei and Skins analogy – I would have used Chile for sheer Richter size. Hmmm….that sounds like an awful choice of words, but describing last year requires an awful choice of words when you get down to it.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Mar 22, 2010 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Look at the bright side...

This season couldn’t get worse….

" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "

by milcmann on Mar 22, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'll be happy if I don't see

a random time out…or swing-gate.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Mar 22, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

WHHHHAAATT????

You didn’t like the swinging gate? So nice lets see it twice….lol…. That was so horrible… I was stuck at work watching that… I wanted to turn the channel but the assholes here thought it was the funniest entertainment they had ever seen… I just kept repeating what and why over and over and over….

" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "

by milcmann on Mar 22, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well...

Swing Gate does include a random timeout to let the opposing team think about what you’re about to do. I’m surprised the Giants didn’t fall down laughing, though. And yet, somehow, I don’t think the whole thing was part of my notion of what constitutes professional football for some reason. I’d have been less surprised to have seen it at Cirque de Solei.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Mar 22, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

sad thing is

You know every player from the skins had to go out there and get laughed at because our coaches were morons… You know the player on the field were like what the hell are we doing?

" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "

by milcmann on Mar 22, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Our team did not get much respect all year

especially from the Giants.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Mar 22, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

All true, but the overall talent level on offense is just not up to par.

Learning a new blocking scheme, new routes and terminolgy, counting on 2 young unproven WRs to step up, and 2 old RBs to still produce. No real upgrades to a mediocre O-line, except better depth, and hoping for no more injuries. BIG questions all. I remain tempered in my optimism and expectations, due to repeated let-downs, but still hopeful things will get better sooner rather than later.

by johnnydee83 on Mar 21, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

We have to draft a QB this year,next yrs.class sucks except for Looker,and we will not be drafting in top 10 again for a long time

I say Campbell is still tradable ,if we do not get another team to sign him, we will trade him in 2010 NFL draft with either ST.LOUIS RAMS or 49ERS.It will be a blockbuster trade evolving several players and draft picks.

by ghost rider on Mar 22, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

sorry meant Locker

when we signed REX,that is when I knew Campbell days here are almost over.

by ghost rider on Mar 22, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

when we signed REX,that is when I knew Campbell days here are almost over.

Why? The signing means nothing.

by Nobetterthenbob on Mar 22, 2010 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dont know that it meant

we were getting rid of Campbell.. I think it was to fill a hole with someone that already knew the O stategy

" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "

by milcmann on Mar 23, 2010 6:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I just let that go

as this guy makes no sense anyway you slice it. He projects what he wants to see happen into his logic without realizing that his logic doesn’t support what he wants to see happen.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Mar 23, 2010 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh damn, I didn't even see it was ghostrider

I feel like a jerk now. Everyone knows he can’t write; I didn’t have to point it out all extra obvious like that.

by kseandoyle on Mar 25, 2010 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

QB situation

Johnny and Milc – good posts and analysis. QB is a real problem. Events suggest the league does not think much of JC, even less than HH people do. Think what that means about our QB debate and Jason Campbell’s ability as a QB. One recent article quoted an “NFL insider” as saying our QB situation was “no hope”, and we basically had to keep him because nobody else wanted him (Thanks, buddy!). I wasn’t that pessimistic, but it is beginning to look like we may go with Jason, Rex and Colt. As to what to do, my guess is that they want to trade JC, but won’t just give him away (by the way, was the first round pick dictated by his minimum salary, which in turn dictated the pick?). If they do not really like Bradford or Clausen, they might just stand pat. If they do rate either or both as really great QB prospects, it seems to me they just have to grab one, no matter what. As I mentioned before, the top QBs go high, and this is (hopefully) the last high pick they get, so this is probably the last chance to draft a top QB, whereas there are a lot of ways (like lower round picks and picks from trades) to beef up the O-line. I.e., it’s now or never to get a top QB. If they do not rate Bradford or Clausen that high, they have to stick with JC, Rex and Colt. They could also still get one of the lower rated QBs (McCoy, Lefevour, Tebow, Pike) for the future. Everything depends on the draft, basically what they think of Bradford or Clausen.

by Donnio1234 on Mar 21, 2010 12:46 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I agree as well...

We dont really know for sure YET what is going to go down.. I can almost promise you that there are some talks and negotiations going on behind closed doors.. Thats how Danny Boy does things…. At first I thought Campbells tender was too little for a QB that has been an average starter. Now im wondering if its way too much… Craziness…

" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "

by milcmann on Mar 21, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well to be fair, it was good not to lose Campbell.....

without a solid QB in place. The hope was, I think, to draft Bradford at 4 and get at least a 2nd for JC. With Bradford going 1 overall, and a perceived lack of interest in Claussen, it was smart not to lose Campbell. Losing JC without a bonafide starter or stud draft pick would have been devastating to the franchise. If they do draft B/C in the 1st, then they probably take a 3rd for Campbell on day 2 of the draft. At least they should wait until they secure another starter before losing JC.

by johnnydee83 on Mar 21, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great points... I agree with you totally...

Hell thye may not be looking at QBs at all.. They may just be playing smoke and mirrors… rope-a-dope..

" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "

by milcmann on Mar 21, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Very true, I am on the Suh bandwagon now.

Let’s get a monster defense first, then build an offense through the draft.

by johnnydee83 on Mar 21, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now you guys are making sense.

There is no way that Clausen is an upgrade over JC – ever – and it would take a couple of years for Bradford to reach JC’s current level of play. I’m liking Suh at #4 and an OLineman in round 2. Possibly a running back in the 4th or a linebacker or FS, depending on who is available.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Mar 21, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah Scott, you are getting on the same wave length or close.

G. McCoy would not be that far off either to provide a monster d-line. If Gaither could be had for the second rd pick it is also a viable move. Now another free agent o-lineman with a good pass protection history would beef up the front 5 until 2011. I do agree with Johnny that a rookie LT/RT would need some NFL experience to get up to snuff and that’s why I like the Gaither move. Yet I would expect that rookie to be better than Heyer unless he was a bust.

by Jefferson1935 on Mar 21, 2010 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree Jefferson, Gaither would be a steal for a 2nd round pick.

I also want McCoy, if Suh is gone. We should be able to get a solid player in the 4th who can contribute immediately. I think we will get Barry Sims to help stabilize the tackle position, also a possible acknowledgement that the staff thinks Okung is now out of reach.
I still like Saffold as a 2nd rd Tackle option if Gaither is unavailable.

by johnnydee83 on Mar 21, 2010 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sims is visiting

Seattle. Since he has his home in Arizona, I would think his agent would be working on that.

by Jefferson1935 on Mar 21, 2010 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hopefully we get him this week.

He would really help stabilize a critical position.

by johnnydee83 on Mar 21, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

They would but we could really use a great FS..

Like a kid in the candy store with only enough money to buy one thing… Goodness this sucks…

" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "

by milcmann on Mar 23, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Moi!

My guts tell me that loud and clear. He will do no better than Quinn – and I like Quinn better.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Mar 22, 2010 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Losing JC

Yes, they can’t afford to lose JC until and unless they lock up a strong replacement., and that could be why nothing much has happened yet – and won’t until right around draft time. Even if they think Grossman is close to JC, they wouldn’t want to take a chance yet. Lack of action could also suggest that they are not sold on Clausen, because if they were, they could be sure to get him or Bradford, but if they won’t be satisfied with Clausen, and can’t be sure of getting Bradford, they can’t move yet and risk losing JC without a top replacement. So they wait and hope and scheme.

by Donnio1234 on Mar 21, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think a lot of teams are unsure of Claussen.

Why would Cleveland, Seattle, and Denver all move so decisively to secure a QB?
Cleveland and Seattle specifically stood an excellent chance of landing Claussen.
Even the signing of Grossman indicates the Redskins have some trepidation about drafting either QB. Bradford because he goes 1, and Claussen’s appeal seems waning.

by johnnydee83 on Mar 21, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are Delhomme and Whitehurst really securing a QB?

And Quinn was signed as a backup.

by SSBlitz on Mar 21, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whitehurst is getting 10M/2yrs with Hasslebeck as the starter.

Delhomme is 12M/2yrs with Wallace as a back-up.
Quinn cost the Broncos a RB and 2 draft picks.
I can’t see any way they make those moves unless they decided to go in another direction in the 1st round. They can now draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round for a lot less money and more time to bring a rookie along.
If Washington and Buffalo don’t draft Claussen, he may fall to the bottom of round 1. It’s hard for me to imagine Shanahan signing Claussen, but I didn’t think they would interview Johnson or Porter either. Doesn’t seem like a good fit to me.

by johnnydee83 on Mar 21, 2010 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Follow the money

May not be the worst rule of thumb in pro football. While recently looking at quarterbacks’ performance and total salaries for many it did not make much sense, but those contracts that didn’t make sense had to make sense to the teams based on their expected performance. Campbell’s salary was on the low side given his performance.

by Jefferson1935 on Mar 21, 2010 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed, money is a great indicator of a team's direction.

     The Redskins for example, have few dollars tied up in the QB position. Which leads to the belief that they are allowing themselves an opportunity to draft a top seed. Cleveland and Seattle have taken themselves out of the discussion. Buffalo, meanwhile, must feel pretty good about their chances to grab Claussen as they have not made a move. If not they can grab one in the 2nd or 3rd. Expectations are also low there, and money seems to be a big issue for the franchise.
     Campbell must be discouraged by what is going on around the league recently, but to his credit, he has kept his composure. If anything, he should be Highly motivated this season.
     Claussen and his agent must be disappointed as well, reading the tea leaves, a top-5 or 10 payday could be slipping away.

by johnnydee83 on Mar 22, 2010 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

They should invite Clausen to the draft day to sit with Tebow

and see which one goes first in the later rounds.

I see the Redskins being fortunate enough to have a real starting QB and an above average back-up for cheap bucks. They will need the cash to sign Suh and rebuild the Oline which was so badly neglected. One could say the Oline being neglected was what kept the team under the salary cap for so many years. Now they need cash for a lot of bodies going forward to repair that.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Mar 22, 2010 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Claussen has to be praying that Buffalo takes him.

Otherwise, he may drop all the way to Minnesota. With the Grossman signing, they have given themselves some latitude on drafting a QB or not. I feel comfortable with a Campbell/Grossman led team this year at least.
The old regime actually spent big money on the O-line, unfortunately they relied too much on everyone staying healthy. They had over 20M tied up on the 5 starters and another 4M in ‘dead money’ on lineman no longer playing. Over 20% of their cap was tied up on 6 lineman. Probably why they didn’t spend dollars on quality back-ups. They were counting too much on getting through last year with the starters playing injury-free.

by johnnydee83 on Mar 22, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Who could have foreseen such a calamity of injuries!?

Other than every poster on HH….

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Mar 22, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Johnny, how about dividing out all of the teams' salaries.

Obviously, if a greater portion go to one group then a lesser portion has to go to some other group. Apparently you have looked into the overall mix.

Defense:
Defensive line
Defensive backs
Linebackers

Offense:
RB, FB
Offensive line
WR
TE
QB

by Jefferson1935 on Mar 22, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I did do that on an earlier post Jefferson.

A typical positional breakdown from a salary standpoint would be, in descending order: QB-14: LT-9: DE-9: WR-8: CB-7: RB-7: LB-7: LG-7: DT-6: RG-6: S-6: RT-5: TE-5: C-5: K-2: P-1

I averaged out the top 10 and rounded for simplicity, but the order is accurate. Figures are in Millions.

Obviously every team is different depending on individual players. The average player would be aprox. half of those figures, and lesser players would be a third, and younger players about 1M or so. With a salary cap of aprox. 120M, the goal is a 50-50 split offense-defense. As you can see, any team can only have 3-4 top-10 players on either side of the ball, as you have to allow for a 53 man roster.

by johnnydee83 on Mar 22, 2010 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nicely illustrates how high priced FAs,

even ones that do perform, can kill a team. My perception of our roster is elite money at nearly all starting positions (Jason being an exception), but then a huge drop off.

Not a way to build the ever lovin’ “team” concept, IMO. Plus, you are screwed if the starter underperforms in the least or gets injured and you do not have a quality back-up. Hmmmmm…..where did I see that happen before….?

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Mar 23, 2010 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

There is little doubt that rightly or wrongly......

Claussen is getting a bad rap. Not sure if it is the way he looks, or the way he talks, or what he says when he talks. He does seem to have some kind of an image problem. Kinda feel bad for him. He cannot let it bother him, he has to just focus on being the best QB he can be.

by johnnydee83 on Mar 22, 2010 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

From my standpoint

Clausen still needs to prove he belongs. Brady Quinn came out of the same “pro-style” system and put up very similar numbers in it. I think his entire collegiate career was a bit better than Clausen’s, but not by much. Anyway, what I see is BQ part 2, and therefore, I see someone who’s on the verge of quickly fading into obscurity. That’s why I’m not sold on Clausen, and I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the opinion of a lot of NFL scouts.
In terms of character, whatever. Yeah he probably is a bit arrogant. But other than Jason Campbell, I’ve never heard of a young QB being labeled mature or humble. I love Campbell’s attitude towards the game (try to be the best I can be, never take my frustrations with management/coaches out on the team, never give up on the game, never complain publicly), but I don’t ever expect other QBs to act that way. QBs generally come to the game with that sense of entitlement. If his is any worse than other guys’, then I hope we don’t draft him, because I don’t want a Jay Cutler on our hands. But I don’t know that anyone’s saying he’s that bad.

by kseandoyle on Mar 22, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

And the fact that the Skins haven’t been shopping Campbell around might show that they’re looking in another direction during the draft.
And I’m nearly positive that the Skins haven’t been shopping him around, since I can’t believe that Seattle would go for Whitehurst over Campbell. The price would have been about the same, and you would have gotten a guy with actual experience.

by kseandoyle on Mar 22, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

My inclination, too.

I think they are “window shopping” Jason to allow him to get a better offer if someone bites, but they are making it clear in some way to other teams that they are keeping him. I know this probably doesn’t make much sense, I’m just trying to fathom any team passing up on Jason to get a Whitehurst or Delhomme or Quinn. It has to be that he is not really available or they are concerned he may have been ramseyed last year.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Mar 23, 2010 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

What are the tell tale signs of being Ramseyed ?

Indecisiveness may be the #1 sign. Loss of confidence is another. What else? What exactly happened to Ramsey? He took too many sacks and hits. Ramsey was not as good of a runner as Campbell. Campbell seemed to use his run option with discretion.

by Jefferson1935 on Mar 23, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Campbell seemed to use his run optionwith discretion for survival.

Fixed that for ya.

SpottieOttieDopaliscious

by Rekka on Mar 23, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

hahahahhahaha... classic

True…

I dont know that it is so much that teams are not biting or thinking.. Its probably more of what our FO wants. Other teams that need a QB may not wanna give up the picks we would except in exchange for him. A first round pick is painful to give away. The only way to match 1 number 1 pick is with maybe a #2 + #3 and probably a pick for the next season.. That is a bit too steep for anyone to pay for a mid carrer middle of the pack QB such as Campbell.

" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "

by milcmann on Mar 23, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

We can pass on our right to that first round pick included in his tender, though

If someone offers us something we like.. Like, say a second round pick plus a starting DB or something like that. I don’t think the Skins honestly expect a first rounder for Campbell, anyway. I think that’s why they tendered him that high, to be able to hold onto him while they decide whether or not to offer him a new contract.

by kseandoyle on Mar 25, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know

I haven’t had any indication that the team is actually shopping Jason Campbell around. Yeah, there are some “NFL insiders” who believe that JC is awful, but there are plenty who think he is and has been all along the best QB available this offseason. So, just keep in mind that these are opinions. I just don’t think that he’s being shopped around, or else why would Seattle have traded for Whitehurst instead of him. Even the people on here who hate having him on the team should at least acknowledge that he’s worth more than San Diego’s former 3rd string QB. That’s why I think the Skins are standing pat on him right now. Maybe they will trade him, but not until after the draft, once they’ve seen if they can get someone else who they would want or not. And that someone else might be Bradford and no one else. How many of us would honestly want Tim Tebow instead of Jason Campbell?

by kseandoyle on Mar 22, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

A slight correction
How many of us who are not criminally deranged would honestly want Tim Tebow instead of Jason Campbell?

Just to keep things in perspective. :)

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Mar 23, 2010 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think that no matter what

Colt is the odd man out. The guy has two preseasons under his belt and just spent a year on IR. I really don’t think anyone is going to be interested in keeping him around. I could be wrong, though. I just think he’ll be moving along soon. As far as the other two go, if the Skins draft a QB with the #4 pick, then JC’s time with the Skins is nearing an end. But if they don’t find that they can get good value for him in a trade, they might be smarter to keep him around during this last year and not have to throw the rookie to the wolves immediately. That gives Campbell a chance to spend another year in his 16-game tryout mode, showing every other team in the league why he’s worth signing. When it’s all said and done, we either part ways with JC and move the young guy up to starter, or, if Campbell again puts up career numbers, we might end up re-signing him and go into training camp with something of a QB controversy.
My point, though, is that I’m over 90% sure that Jason Campbell will be the starter for the team in week 1, and coming out of the bye, he’ll probably still be the starter (I’m like 70% on that part). Most likely scenario at the start of the season, to me: JC as our starter, Grossman as our #2, some rookie at #3. If the rookie got picked up in the first or second round, then over the course of the season, that rookie will move up the depth chart, and eventually (unless Campbell is having a really good year) will probably start sometime during the second half of the season.

by kseandoyle on Mar 22, 2010 6:21 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree with everything you said

with the possible exception that we do not draft a QB this year and use that pick on another need. We can make H the P our 3rd string QB and make an educated decision on QB going forward during next year’s draft.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Mar 23, 2010 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Unless they are thinking

Take a QB now, that way he will be developed when the rest of the team is fully patched up in 2-3 years. I am not saying that I am for this or that that is what is gonna happen.. I am just thinking that this may be an option they could be chewing on.

" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "

by milcmann on Mar 23, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I'm not so convinced of it any more either

Shanahan’s looking at a lot of QBs, but I’m starting to wonder if he’s seriously considering any of them.

by kseandoyle on Mar 25, 2010 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Milcmann,

Can you imagine a season where we started Rex Grossman??? We’d be the laughing stock of the NFC. I think, to answer your question, that Colt Brennan is the odd man out. Just doesn’t make sense to me to have your strongest option in Rex Grossman, who could be a potential starter, if you draft a rookie and he’s slow out the gate.

by J.Cash on Mar 23, 2010 7:56 PM EDT reply actions  

we were the laughing stock of the nfl last year

dont think grossmass ever gets thebstart

" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "

by milcmann on Mar 25, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

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