#4 Overall: Probably the Worst Position to be in Draft Day
by BigOLinemen on Mar 20, 2010 2:05 PM EDT
104 comments
I've been making my sweep around, looking at all kinds of mock drafts, seeing who the experts think Washington is gonna draft. I've seen a number of thoughts, but I just started realizing that we probably have the worst draft pick in the draft. With St. Louis appearing to go after Bradford and Detroit taking a liking to Okung, we are losing the only two picks that would make sense from a needs perspective. While I am not Bradford fan, we could have reacted to the situation, traded Campbell for a pick or two/a LT and made due. But look at us now: if Tampa Bay takes Suh, we are probably in the worst possible scenario. With only a few possibilities, the Skins may have a tough decision to make.
All of these players I am breaking down are assuming Bradford and Okung were already taken and that we can not trade down.
- Ndamukong Suh, DT Nebraska: If he drops to us, he is an obvious take. This guy is an athlete, a monster, and obviously the best player in the draft, HANDS DOWN. This guy would come to us, play 3-4 DE and probably be as much of a terror as Haynesworth. While we are leaving a big gap at Oline, we do have a 2nd rounder, and Suh would be 100% worth the pick.
- Gerald McCoy, DT Oklahoma: While he is a very good player, I don't see him being the same 3-4 DE that Suh could be for us. McCoy seems like a great 4-3 DT and probably will be, but he doesn't have the same pass pressuring ability of Suh, and just the pure ability to dominate like Suh. I have nothing against McCoy, but he probably would not fit in as well at 3-4 DE
- Eric Berry, FS Tennessee: A very intriguing possibility here. On defense, since Sean Taylor's absence, we've had an absence of turnovers. Going into a 3-4 with OLBs chomping at the bit to kill the QB, ILBs becoming tackling machines, and a monster D-line, we will be getting a lot more action in our defense. But Landry, Horton, and Doughty can not play FS well at all. Eric Berry could fill a hole we have and would continue to have. He wouldn't bring the same punishing attack of Sean Taylor, but he'd certainly bring an Ed Reed style of playmaking.
- Jimmy Clausen, QB Notre Dame: This, in my opinion, would be a big mistake. When I look at a guy like Bradford, I see a Matt Ryan kind of guy. A hard working, an accurate quarterback with everything that it takes to be successful. While Clausen is an accurate quarterback and not rather injury prone, he comes off as arrogant to me, and when you think you are more then you really are, you turn out like JaMarcus Russell, and you never live up to your potential. This guy, unless he goes to a coach that is gonna work him to pieces, will likely be a bust.
- Bryan Bulaga/Bruce Campbell/Trent Williams, LT Iowa Maryland and Oklahoma respectively: I hate to group these three together, but these are the next possibilities at LT. I have my opinion, (which is that Campbell is the best), but everyone thinks differently. These three would be the next, and we would obviously be picking them too high, but if they fit our organization, we could still get #4 overall value out of them. Williams is a very balanced LT, Bulaga brings power, and Campbell brings speed, so any of them would be a very good pick, but still high nonetheless.
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On the contrary, I like the way the draft seems to be working out for the #4 pick, if
the Skins pick Suh or McCoy. This topic has been well discussed on the “Could(Should) The Redskins Select NdamuKong Suh?” thread – http://www.hogshaven.com/2010/3/17/1377000/could-should-the-redskins-select. Yet other choices at #4 are not as appealing IMO. Left tackle still has a high priority if a trade for someone like Gaither doesn’t occur before the draft.
Another versatile OL in free agency would be adequate for 2010 season in that it would leave more draft picks for other needs.
The offensive line is not going to be rebuilt in one season, but should remain a high priority for 2011.
the OL should also remain a high priority in 2012, 2013, and maybe even 2014
2 years isn’t going to make up for an entire decade of neglect, especially when the few good guys we have aren’t young.
I don't know about all that
What, are we going to spend a first round pick on each OL position over the next five years? That’s a lot of money, and you’re putting other needs on hold that way.
O-LINE has depleted.....
talent since injuries took out our starters last year and age was already creeping up on them. Left tackle is the most vital position on the line and we have no one near the potential of Chris Samuels. So in my opinion if they draft a left tackle with the 4 slot he is basically penciled in to start and assumes a contract near Samuels who is no longer on the roster. Randy Thomas is gone too so his contract saves money and you can go young and if they are worth starting they will not nearly get paid what those two made to begin with. If the new younger version play up to standards you can say they are cheaper and have an upside since they will be there for longer than 5 years and if they are worth the money pay them what every other team will pay them. We should have all our picks for the next coming years and fix major needs as they come along.
True but...
if addressed properly in this draft, we might not have to use one of our first two picks next year.
by Nobetterthenbob on Mar 22, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree that both the offensive and defensive lines need fairly constant attention
from season to season. Due to other team needs, free agency is needed to complement/supplement the OL for a few years until the draft can be used to rebuild and maintain it.
The Ravens are a team that seems to take that approach. It’s OK to keep an offensive lineman for more than 8 years if they are still performing. Even the best offensive linemen meet their day, i.e., 2009 season, Orlando Pace. There is no hard and fast rule for all players since some last longer than others. Both Rabach and Dockery will need to get replaced in the next few years. Fortunately, Dockery has not had any major injury history.
by Jefferson1935 on Mar 22, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
There are only two players that I would love to get in the top 5.
Berry and Okung. They both fill position of need and are both worthy of a #4 pick. If by some disaster they are both gone, then either Bradford or Suh WILL be there, and the Skins will be happy.
Does any Redskins fan want us to draft Jimmy Clausen? It doesn’t seem like it….Thank God
Orakpo!!! Russel Okung next year!
I think we are in a good spot.
We will get a difference-maker regardless, and also have the ability to trade-down the pick for additional picks. We are going, hopefully, to get one of the top 4 players in the country. IMO, reaching for a QB or LT would be a big mistake. If Bradford and Okung are gone, take one of the other 3, Suh, McCoy, or Berry if no trade is possible.
McCoy should be an outstanding 3-4 DE if Haslett lets him do what he does, which is penetrate into the backfield and disrupt the play.
Every position that can be substantially upgraded is a position of need when the team is rebuilding, as we are. Those 5 guys are substantial upgrades. Take the best player available, IMO.
I love the Spot we are in...
Because we are in a position where we can use players from a lot of different areas we leave the teams behind us chewing thier nails. We are in a good position to make deals and get what we want…
" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "
I'm in this camp too
with all of the recent “tebow” rumors now popping up they have set themselves up a smoke screen to effectively mask who they may really like and keeping all of their options open, meaning that the pick still has value and that any bidder will have to pay a comparable price to move into it.
I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....
Who knows...
All I know is that I will be sitting on my couch with a beer and a fat bowl off pop corn on draft day.. Its gonna be a ride im sure..
" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "
by milcmann on Mar 21, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Let me guess, you're a Maryland fan?
No offense to Campbell, but this has to be the only site on the entire SB nation that has any more than a small, ignored minority of people thinking that he is the second-best or best lineman in the draft. I’m not saying that he won’t be good, but, to me, he’s a late-first-round pick. Solidly that, but nothing more. Maybe as high as 16 or 17. He’s clearly very athletic and really helped his draft stock in the combine, but being able to jump high and sprint aren’t really requisite skills for offensive linemen. I think he’ll be good, but with the #4 pick, you’d better get a guy who’s going to, as they’ve been saying “anchor your line for 10 years” and I just don’t think he’s that good.
A lot of people on this site kept saying that Stephon Heyer would be good (not as good as people think Campbell will be, of course), until he started playing regularly. But I think that hype leading up to his becoming a starter was the same thing making people think of Campbell as #4-worthy — Maryland fans rooting for their own.
Considering his athletic ability
I think Campbell would work well in Shannahan’s offense, but I’d rather have him play RT than LT. It’s true that his pass blocking skills aren’t as good as some in the draft but given the right situation I think he could be a dominate tackle in the next 2 years.
That being said, you are right in saying he isn’t worth the #4 pick.
by Nobetterthenbob on Mar 20, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I do wish we didn't have so many pressing needs on offense
It would be great to pick up Berry or Suh or McCoy, especially Berry. Our defensive backfield has fallen apart since 2007, and Sean Taylor’s death wasn’t the only problem. We didn’t have a good replacement lined up for Shawn Springs; Carlos Rogers completely fell apart this year after being “good and would be great if he would just hold onto interceptions” for his entire career; and LaRon Landry’s been playing out of position because, why get an actual free safety when you can have an entire roster of strong safeties?
Jimmy Clausen
he comes off as arrogant to me
Can you name three times that Clausen has came across arrogant?
yeah, I dunno about arrogant
I just worry more about maturity. I really hope Suh drops to us. Otherwise, I say find a trade partner. (Assuming Okung is gone)
So he has the skillsets, grooming, drive, and measurables that you'd want in a pro QB.
Doesn’t have a history of major injuries. Has shown he’ll play through minor ones.
But potential immaturity would stop you from drafting him?
Maturity is obviously something that grows with age, so going to far back as a reference is pointless. And interviews with Snyder, Allen, and Shanahan would reveal if those worries were supported or just made up by the media (and ND haters like Carver).
Those are obviously his girlfriends.
It’d be more arrogant and immature to deny pictures with girls at a bar based on their appearances.
Then again
Maybe Jimmy is “jumping the grenades” for his buddies here. An admirable trait I must admit.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
Let's not act like we've never
gone out for a night on the town and had a 5 dollar bet on who could take pics with the worst looking girl. This to me shows that Claussen is a competitor as he obviously doubled down here.
Realistically girls wanted a picture with the star QB and he had to oblige. If I were his friend I would have this picture blown up and framed.
I’m not a Claussen advocate, I’d prefer we go a different direction. And this picture shouldn’t sway us one way or the other, but it is hilarious and very much necessary on the blog here..
then again on a positive note..
this picture could be an indication of Jimmy’s selfless nature as he could be “jumping the grenades” for his buddies on the OL who are left free to score on the hot chicks.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
The great thing about Claussen's taste is......
he has no freakin excuse not to perform brilliantly on Sundays.
the "potential immaturity"
would be vetted by our decision makers. If it turned out to be “actual immaturity”, then I say stay away. I’m sure there are plenty of examples, but the easiest ones are Ryan Leaf and Jeff George. Cutler is another one. I don’t want that type of guy leading our team.
Somehow he reminds me of a weaker armed Jeff George
That guy, I don’t think, ever matured.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
you're confused
Scott hates ND. But if I remember correctly it’s because of his college’s rivalry so it’s not completely without cause.
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
I would be remiss to not own up to my personal bias
But, quite frankly, I still think there are a helluva lotta warning bells that should go off when his name gets mentioned. I hear them and they are not all rivalry related.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Blitz
I have heard that referenced in other threads by folks who have seen/witnessed his bahavior in practice and on campus. No one goes on record (not a real surprise when you think that he was the number one recuit in America and if it was a teammate, you still have to play with him) on this stuff, so it is just rumor but a persistent one. Part of me understands that if you want to compete at the highest levels you do have to have that self assuredness in your emotional make up that allows you to handle that pressure that comes with the position. Personality wise, how it is interpreted and how it manifests itself, varies from person to person. My issue with him isn’t the personality, it’s the performance.
I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....
I find it hard to believe anonymous teammates/student peers with vague accusations. The only concrete example I’ve ever seen is the limo in highschool (which doesn’t demonstrate anything).
What’s wrong with his performance?
performance such as
3-9 2007
6-6 2008
6-6 2009
With ND posting top 20 recruiting classes in each of these years….per the experts….
I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....
That sounds like ND performance, not Clausen.
Remember he had a bush league defense and make-shift o-line infront of him. No running back rushed for over 700 yards in a season while he was there. In fact, the whole team never scored more than 13 rushing TDs in a season.
Stats that are actually his, over those same years:
2007
Clausen finished his freshman year having completed 56.3% of his passes for 1254 yards, with 7 touchdowns (plus two rushing TDs) and 6 interceptions and a QB rating of 103.85, and he was sacked a team-record 34 times.
2008
he completed 60.9% of his passes for 3172 yards, 25 touchdowns and 17 interceptions and a 132.5 efficiency rating. He threw for 406 yards passing and five touchdowns in their bowl game that year, ending ND’s 9 year bowl slump.
2009
He finished the season with 3,722 yards passing, a 68.8% completion rate, 161.42 passer rating, 28 touchdowns, and four interceptions. That’s a better junior season, in every category, than Matt Ryan, Big Ben, Phillip Rivers, Eli Manning, or The Peyton Manning.
Notice too that those are noticeable improvements in every statistic year-over-year.
Um...
I knew that the college QB Rating system was different, but I didn’t know the numbers were that much higher. You get a 103 for 56% completion? His stats from that year would put him, where, somewhere in the mid-70s in the NFL? That’s a pretty big disparity. Just thought that was weird.
He had a really good junior year, but I still think his college career is slightly inferior to his predecessor, Brady Quinn. And we know how Quinn’s been doing so far.
well gee whiz, here are some numbers for you.....
Player A
2009
rating 160.13
passing yards 3,560
touchdowns 33
Career yards 11,365 career TD’s 94
Stats Overview Passing
YEAR CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
2007 298 496 3848 60.1 7.76 66 26 12 20 137.71
2008 330 478 3957 69.0 8.28 76 35 14 20 156.88
2009 275 409 3560 67.2 8.70 80 33 14 22 160.13
here’s someone else’s
Player B
Rating 150.26
Passing Yards 3,438
Touchdowns 28
career yards 12,905
career TD’s 102
Stats Overview Passing
YEAR CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
2006 247 388 3031 63.7 7.81 88 26 10 26 146.24
2007 355 543 3652 65.4 6.73 76 27 13 22 133.50
2008 251 376 2784 66.8 7.40 93 21 6 20 144.19
2009 318 456 3438 69.7 7.54 82 28 7 17 150.26
here’s another, let’s call him Player C
2009
Rating 164.17
Passing yards 2,895
Touchdowns 21
career passing yards 9,285
career TD’s 88
Stats Overview Passing
YEAR CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
2006 22 33 358 66.7 10.85 55 5 1 0 201.73
2007 234 350 3286 66.9 9.39 66 32 6 13 172.47
2008 192 298 2746 64.4 9.22 70 30 4 15 172.37
2009 213 314 2895 67.8 9.22 80 21 5 29 164.17
Pretty impressive numbers right? Pretty much on par with the ones that you posted above.
Player A – Max Hall – BYU
Player B – Dan Lefevour – Central Michigan
Player C – Tim Tebow – Florida
so by THIS math, we could get someone with comparable numbers at the top of round 2, if not later, rather than spending the #4 pick in the draft….remember, that these are THESE PLAYERS accomplishments, not their teams, as you pointed out.
I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....
All of thier numbers got reset...
The NFL resets any stats they have had… It is a totally different animal..
" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "
Gee Whiz
Ya, those numbers are great. Good work leaving their names a surprise till the end, M. Night Shyamalan.
But none of those stat lines are as good as Clausen’s.
They all have a much worse TD:INT ratio, none of them threw for as many yards (except Max Hall – then regressed), they all have a lower completion percentage, none of them did it in a pro-style offense, and two them had an extra year to try.
Two other things:
I’m not advocating that the Redskins draft Clausen, I’m supporting him as a good prospect (which might help in the scenario that we do draft him).
And this is the NFL. With new pass-friendly rules that make the QB the most important position on the team. We want the best player there, not a filler.
wow...I guess 200 yards over the course
of an entire collegiate slate is a show stopper! What is that, 15 yards a game? 28:4 and 33:14 is a true difference, I grant you, but then again, so are the W-L records.
color me convinced…not.
You find Claussen as being worthy of the #4 pick, I don’t. If he gets selected, I’ll root just as hard for him to succeed as any other player that the ‘Skins select. You think he’s separated himself from the rest of QB’s available and I don’t think he has, fair enough.
I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....
I think he and Bradford are far ahead of the rest of the pack.
What how fast the ball comes out of their hand. Really impressive with the consistent accuracy and velocity they put on it.
very true....
All I know is if I were a H trophy winner and the top QB seed in the draft I would be a little arogant as well…
" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "
Probably a bit the other way too.
You’d need to be a bit arrogant to become a Heisman winner and top seed.
Clausen
I also cannot see nixing Clausen because of alleged egotism or arrogance unless maybe they were flagrant, persistent and obnoxious. I mean, he’s a college kid who has had enormous success at the most famous school in America. How could he not be a little cocky, probably a little immature and naive? But that attitude would last about 5 minutes after he got to Redskins camp. He would quickly see what he faced, CP and the guys would bring him down to earth very fast. The “top dog” would immediately be just a rookie. Then we’d start to see what he is made of. I would guess that he’d do fine, but you can never be sure. The bigger question is how good he is as a QB.
enormous success
is now defined as
2007 3-9
2008- 6-6
2009 6-6
is it?
I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....
enormous success
I meant personal success, like passing stats. The Fighting Irish lost because they had a terrible defense, regularly losing with scores like 38-35. I don’t know how good Clausen is (looked great the few times I saw him), but think he should be rated mainly on his football skills, which is undoubtedly what Shanahan will do. Some time ago somebody posted a story on him, and it was far more of a mixed bag than suggested here. Many talked of his leadership, hard work, dedication and will to win, with the negative comments (the way I read them) being mostly ambiguous, and nothing very worrisome. That is, nothing suggesting he was lazy or stupid or a troublemaker, or anything that would seem to hurt his chance of success in the pros.
pirate, good point Donnio thinks any Qb is better than JC 17. He would pump up the easter bunny for Qb, if it meant getting rid of Jason Campbell.
by LETJASONPASS on Mar 21, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
You agree with Piratedan?
Again only with your logic,
What’s JC17’s record as a starter? So then it would be more abou personal success than team record meaning you agree with Donnio, because JC’s record don’t show he should be a QB either…
How good he is as a QB?
Yes, Clausen or any other rookie QB is subject to this question. Then the subject becomes the intangibles. As you have pointed out with JC’s tangilbles, even they are subject to opinion. Given the Redskins’ dire needs and Campbell’s average NFL performance, is the a QB position worth the risk? To be an average NFL QB is not the worst thing on the football field with a good supporting cast. Maybe if Campbell wasn’t getting sacked, hit, or pressured so much, he would be more decisive.
Draft QBs
I suspect the draft decision is more about how Shanahan rates Bradford and Clausen, rather than how good JC is. The verdict is pretty much in on JC – average at best. As noted in another thread, nobody is bidding on JC (as far as I know, although there could be fireworks at any moment, but more likely right around draft time), with teams grabbing far less well known QBs for big money. It seems that nobody is willing to give up much for him, suggesting the league does not rate him very highly. Earlier I hoped for a first round pick, but most on HH thought a 2nd rounder was all we could get, and now it looks as if even that is wishful thinking. It quite possibly would not be worth it to trade him for a 3rd rounder, so we might end up going with JC, Rex and Colt. Maybe it’ll work, but I’d rather have Bradford.
Let's get real and follow the money
Does anyone really believe they would draft Clausen and pay him roughly $20 MILLION when they could have a known, NFL tested, durable quantity like JC for $4M this year? It just does not compute.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Appearently
Every team in the NFL that needs a QB is overlooking a cheaper more experienced Campbell for the same Jimmy Clausen that we are discussing… It would be very simple for the Rams give us thier #1 that they are gonna use on him anyway for Campbell… I know it doesnt compute but thems be the facts. I actually think Campbell is better than any QB with a wounded wing…Especially a Rook
" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "
Follow the money
How much would Clausen get at #4? Would it be much more than JC? In any case, I doubt that money is a big factor. For one thing, whoever they take at #4, like Okung, will get a lot of money. And to get a franchise QB – I think they’d do it in a heartbeat. By the way, as of now, given the uncertainties, I probably would go with Okung over Clausen. But hoping for Bradford. Clausen may not be much above (in potential) guys we can get in the 2nd or even 4th round, like McCoy, Tebow or Lefevour.
I really dont like any of these QBs that we have to chose from. Not this year anyway...
I know how expecive it is to draft one of these #1 rookies… It really hurts when they are sorry..
" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "
When you say the verdict is in on JC you do mean fans opinions right?
I don’t recall hearing Shanahan saying he thought JC was average, but I’m sure someone is going to say that the tender says it all. I’m sure the draft decision is on how Shanahan rates Bradford and Clausen as well as how he sees JC in his future plans. He has said some good things about JC, he just hasn’t committed him as the starter. It doesn’t mean he won’t.
Brandon - I meant the fans, particularly the ones on HH
I totally agree with your comment, and it’s very likely that Shanahan has not decided where JC rates.
lol...here we go...
Maybe if Campbell wasn’t getting sacked, hit, or pressured so much, he would be more decisive.
Look at it this way… Campbell is not a human to Syder…. He is an investment that Snyder signed for years ago… Iany investment that does not pay off, you sell it and start over…
Heres another example… If you buy a car that you are expecting will be a big engine sports car but it turns out to be an Accord. Everytime you think about getting another car someone tells you that they can modify your Accord so that it is Fast and Furious but each year there is another excuss why its still an Accord that is basically just as fast as it was the day you got it. When do you get rid of the Accord and try out a new choice.
" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "
I don't think the car thing is really a good example.
I don’t think many people would buy a car without knowing what kind of car it is when they have high expectations like that
You dont Buy a QB know what kind of QB you are gonna get either...
You get a QB in hopes that he will be the QB you wanted… I think it fits perfectly.
" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "
Ummmmmm you basically just proved my point lmao
You don’t know what kind of QB your going to get. Your expectations are very high and you pray and hope that he is what you want him to be. With a car on the other hand, unless someone just goes and buys a random car or they have high expectations for it but don’t know anything at all regarding them, they will be able to get what they want. Its not like your going to a dealership wanting to buy a huge SUV with a lot of trunk space hoping and praying that you get it but you leave with a small pick up truck like a S10. A living thing would make a better example. Lets take a dog for example. Milc, you want a dog that will be your best friend and a great protector. You could buy a dog and he will be exactly that or the dog could have a wimpy personality.
With a car on the other hand, unless someone just goes and buys a random car or they have high expectations for it but don’t know anything at all regarding them, they will be able to get what they want.
I could have probably explained that a little better… Thats what I was basically saying… You dont think Snyder is actually going to talk to a penny anny car dealer do you? I figured everyone would put that together….lol… your right though most people get a car by themselves… Snyder sends scouts to scout players and more than likely sends a butler or something to get his cars for him… Oh wait he doesnt even driver himself either..
" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "
We have a run away Toyota Camry....
Of course you are going to sell your product and try and get your money for it. Just because someone wins the Heisman, the higher he gets drafted brings more leverage for a bigger payday. If a team needs a QB they are more than likely gonna find a lemon before some of the others.
milc, Maybe if the accord had a decent engine/ offensive line, a good set of tires/ a running game or a good computer/head coach it would have been the fast and furious.
This is typical of you another moronic anti-Jason post to go with your screen picture.
you mean like it did when
Collins took us to the playoffs.. You know the year Campbell only won like 2 games… Or like the next year when we went 8-8………………. If you would truly read the post you would have read that I was not bashing Campbell by anything but I business investment point of view. Since the team is a business and your personal God (Campbell) is the most important part of said “Business” use your brain…. If he isnt gone this year he will be in the next…
Face it.. The only reason he is still here is because no other team wants him. For God’s sake Anderson and Quinn got picked up for more than he is tendered at… I really am beginning to think you are either Campbell himself on here or you really have a man crush on him… Either way your still a loser….
" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "
Forgot the 5M QB in seattle
The Browns, have who? In my opinion JC17 is better than either of those clowns but it appears to matter more what NFL insiders feel…than my opinion.
Per Redskin Insider:
What we know for sure is that the Redskins only offered Jason Campbell a first-round tender, so he could become an unrestricted free agent after the 2010 season. We’ve been told that Shanahan wants to draft a young quarterback and “raise him,” and we hear former Oklahoma star Sam Bradford is the guy he likes most.
But Bradford might not be available when the Redskins, who currently hold the fourth overall pick, select, so it makes sense to keep their options open.
DOC you are a true poet..
Damn the damn Redskins insider and thier anti-Campbell rants…lol
" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "
enough with the clausen talk already....
he’s not getting drafted by the redkins he’s not the player we need,or at the position we need…from a coaching perspective why would you crowd a spot on the depth chart even more when you have gaps in other areas more important too take care of …the obvious LT & G spot, RB,LB (a big need for more talent there) and also the secondary which i think is a spot going widely unnoticed in FA and draft talks… with all those needs QB with four players in competition for the 1 & 2 spots JC, Colt,Rex and Bartel you dont add bradford or clausen or f*kn tebow for any reason there, we audition who we already have see if they work before we buy some expensive unproven rookie for the next three or four years when you have the grand oppurtunity to bulid in depth and talent for so many other positions more important to winning a football game…..f*ck clausen f*ck bradford f*ck tebow…build a f*ckn team for the fans to watch instead of investing in one guy!!!
abra-cadabra homes!
In my case
the talk is all generated by the real fear that it could happen, not that it really could happen.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Enough
Certainly a reasonable attitude, but it depends on whether you think JC is a good enough QB to take us through the next few years. Many here have doubts, and many in the league seem to agree since they haven’t moved on him for a very reasonable price, and are paying pretty big money for less experienced guys. If – and I stress if – Shanahan thinks JC is just average, I think he will move hard to get one of the top draft QBs. One argument: the top QBs go high in the draft. The Skins have a high draft pick this year but hope to never have such a high one again (i.e., because we win more games). So this is our one and only chance to draft a top QB. Now or never. Notice that this idea only applies if they rate one of the QBs very high, a “franchise” QB with great potential (e.g., Clausen might not qualify). Meanwhile, there are a lot of ways to beef up the O-line – Gaither, trades, lower draft picks. In essence, QB is different than all the other positions – if you have a chance to get a top guy, do it!
I dunno if
YOU’RE making this argument
the top QBs go high in the draft
Or you are just recycling, but it is far from the truth. The Superbowl winner last year was a 2nd rounder, and a damn fine QB as well. The leading passer in the league last year (Matt Schaub) was a 3rd rounder. I believe Favre was a 4th rounder. Are therre plenty of examples of first round QB’s at the top of the last year’s passing charts ? Absolutely. But for every success, there are probably 2 failures. Neither Bradford or Claussen are sure things. Do you really want to take a chance on a guy, pay him that much money, if there’s no guarantee? I don’t. Sure, any one of the guys we draft could turn out to be a bust. but I’m pretty sure the bust label is placed on more high 1st round QB’s than any other position. It’s because teams stretch, trying to make a high first rounder out of a guy just because he may be the best QB in that draft. Just because Bradford and/or Claussen may be better than LeFouver or Skelton, doesn’t mean they will good enough to start play in this league.
Favre was a 2nd rounder
Early 2nd rounder, 33rd overall by the Falcons, then they shipped him to Green Bay his sophomore season for a 1st round pick. (I saw a special on NFL Network about it the other day, not trying to nit pick haha)
Yeah, yer right
I knew that too. Still had the cobwebs when I wrote that. But the point still applies, he wasn’t a “high first rounder.”
Hutch
Nothing about how the picks worked out. I just meant that in any given year one or more QBs would be drafted in the first few picks. I.e., QBs were the most desired, highest rated players in the draft. Teams grabbed them. Some were bad picks. But if you want to draft one of the top ranked QBs, you’re probably going to need a high pick. No guarantees though.
I agree
the top RANKED QB’s do go higher. But those rankings are proved false more times than not. Most of the time, that ranking is based more on potential than anything concrete. Teams ten to get caught up in the idea of getting a “franchise QB”, and probably end up bloating a guy’s value because of it.
Check out the SB Nation remarks by Mike Holmgren about Clausen
He doesn’t like him and has no qualms about picking a QB next year even in the 3 or 4th round.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
He doesn't say he doesn't like him.
He says he wishes he liked him more. To justify drafting him higher than he’s ever drafted a QB.
Holmgren is a draft a mid-round QB type guy, so this makes sense.
I didn't say he was being inconsistent
I think he was being polite. Or, smoke and mirrors, he really likes him.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Donnio, I am curious who made you the representitive, for the people here that have doubts about JC 17 and his ability?
You keep posting the samething. Most on HH think that Jason will be fine, when he gets a supporting cast. You buddy, are just a JC 17 hater.
by LETJASONPASS on Mar 22, 2010 6:32 AM EDT up reply actions
So basically what your saying is..............
The only way to get a “franchise” QB is to draft them high, but your content with getting the guys to protect that “franchise” QB for cheap? When it comes to the draft, the higher you are is supposed to mean the better you are correct? As you can see I’m not in agreement that the QB is different than other positions. When you say “if you have a chance to get a top guy, do it!” that does not pertain only to the QB.
exactly
Now, don’t get me wrong, if you have a “can’t miss” prospect, then I am all for getting him. But Peyton Manning is the only guy like that I can think of in recent memory. Meanwhile, teams press over year to force a QB into that “top prospect” category. Jamarcus Russell, Akili Smith, Alex Smith. Those are just a few of the QB’s taken with high picks who were stretches. Meanwhile, the all had QB’s drafted after them who turned out better.
They were all QBs who relied on athleticism too.
Seems to be a recipe for disaster. Unless it’s Mike Vick.
Remember the Heath Schuler experience...
Nobody mentions Tom Brady, Kurt Warner and the year John Elway and Ken O`Brien, Todd Blackedge and Dan Marino were drafted. Really none of the QB`S in this years draft can be at best a Blackledge. I can`t predict the future but it is a hit and miss but to have high expectations we could be setting us up for failure from the get go.
Brandon, that's what I was saying, but it's not a hard and fast rule
I didn’t strictly mean to get the O-line “cheap”, but suggest that we don’t have to use the #4 to pick one. I.e., for the same rank among possibles, I think linemen go a little lower than similarly ranked QBs. But it varies by years and is all a matter of degree. But it still seems to me that there are various options to seriously improve the O-line, but only one way to get a QB or Bradford’s promise. But you may disagree – that’s what makes a debate.
I agree with some things. And debates are fun when they aren't out of hand.
If a lineman and a QB are rated the same (supposedly), then your right the QB will be rated higher just because he is a QB. But at the same time anyway that you can think of to get an O-line, you can do the same for a QB. It just may cost a lot more and be more work since a QB is one person while an O-line consists of 5 individuals.
Clausen
He played in Charlie Weis’s “pro style” offense at Notre Dame, which is some sort of badge of honor for him among some draft watchers. It doesn’t seem to have done much for Brady Quinn.
If so,
I think we will be surprised as to how much we got for him – a lot more than what the Browns got for Quinn in my estimate. Just a guess.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
hope so man... Im thinking maybe a 2nd plus a later pick maybe 2
" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "
Draft a QB?
There seems to be a growing feeling that Bradford will go at #1 (so be gone at 4). That is a problem, because most on HH think Clausen is not a “franchise” QB (and I tend to agree – he’s not substantially better than guys we can get lower down). So I would go with Okung if Bradford was gone. That pretty much means we go with JC/Rex/Colt and maybe McCoy, Lefevour, Pike or Tebow or Clausen (if he fell to the 2nd round) this year. Well, it could be OK – just let them fight for the job. One alternative would be to trade with STL and get their #1 pick, and take Bradford. I don’t know what the deal would be (give them JC, get a lower pick?). A trade would depend on how Shanahan and Allen rate JC vs Bradford. Is Bradford a “franchise” QB, which could also be described as substantially better than JC?
Only way I think the Redskins should go Clausen
If they pickup additional picks through and trade and are able to get him in the 2nd round.
I think they will only pick another QB if someone bites on Campbell and gives us picks
" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "
Milc-QB
The Wash Post today had an article describing what seems to be an all-out effort by Shanahan to find a QB in the draft. He is personally going to evaluate 5 QBs, including Bradford, Clausen, Tebow and McCoy. It’s hard to see him making such a huge personal effort if he was satisfied with who he has. He also stresses that there will be competition for QB, mentioning Grossman’s strengths in the same paragraph. He also said good things about JC earlier, and raved about Tebow after visiting with him. One thing – Mike tends to say nice things about guys, or nothing at all, so we have to read between the lines.
All im saying is
With all the chatter over QBs avail I would not put it past the Fo to use it to gain the advantage on key players they may want.. Who knows though… cant wait till draft day so we can get it over with.. Until then we are all gonna froth at the mouth and bite at the bit… Im starting to get a little anxious.
" IF YoU Are aRgUinG WiTh ME, YOU ArE WRonG!!!! "
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