3 Reasons Why Joey Porter Would Be a Bad Signing for Redskins
by Kevin Ewoldt on Mar 18, 2010 9:43 AM EDT
in Redskins Analysis
46 comments
I didn't get to watch a lot of Miami Dolphins football this year, but my first reaction to bringing in Joey Porter, like most people, is a negative one. He had 9 sacks last year and 17.5 in 2008, but there is a lot more to the story as his ProFootballFocus stats show and fellow SB Nation writer for the Dolphins website, The Phinsider, Matt Infante, can attest.
In regards to on-field performance, what's the reason Joey Porter had a steep decline in performance from his 2008 year? His PFF stats show consistently poor performance in pass defense...what are his strengths/weaknesses after this year? (Redskins will be switching to a 3-4 this year)
Phinsider: The main reason for Porter's decline is simply his age. His body has a lot of wear and tear on it that has caused him to lose a step or two. He'll still look brilliant in little spurts. But the consistency isn't there anymore. He's also always been a one-trick pony and is a liability against the run. Last season, teams made it a point to run to Porter's side because he rarely made a play at the point of attack. So in a nutshell, I think Porter's best role is as a situational pass-rusher. It would keep him fresh and limit how often teams can exploit is weakness in run support. However, that was part of the problem with Porter and the coaching staff last year. He didn't want to be a part-time player.
Porter was suspended for 1-game by the team and reportedly had clashes with the coaches and refused to come off the field. Is this true and what light can you shed to his behaviors/motives?
Phinsider: All media reports indicate that it is indeed true that Joey would refuse to come off the field when the coaches attempted to bring in a replacement. He simply felt like he was too good to not be on the field - which was wrong. After the season, Porter went on many radio stations and threw his teammates under the bus by saying how he was the best linebacker on the team and that there was no need for him to be replaced - even for young pass-rushing specialist Cameron Wake. Porter wants no part in helping along young players - and he made that very clear. His suspension, though, (as reported by multiple South Florida papers) was due to Porter telling coaches he was too sick or hurt to practice and then being seen out on the town that night even after coaches let Joey leave practice to go home early. But this is just part of the baggage when you bring in somebody like him.
Did other teammates support him or alienate him?
Phinsider: From what I could tell, it seems like most of the players stayed out of it. But there were some who did support Joey. By support, I mean publicly declaring they hoped Joey would remain on the team for the 2010 season. But there was never any shot of that happening. Even before Joey's comments, it was becoming clear that Porter would be let go this offseason. So while guys like Channing Crowder did publicly support Joey, there was no way the Dolphins could have brought him back after throwing his teammates under the bus like he did.
One other note. I don't want this to come off as sour grapes, but if Joey was actually as good as he thinks he is, then why aren't teams rushing to sign him - or at least invite him in for a visit? It's been a while now and Porter has made just one visit - and it was to one of his former coaches in Pittsburgh. Yet they didn't even offer him a contract. That has to say something, right?
So, if the Redskins did sign him, it should only be in a limited pass-rushing role. This doesn't make sense for the Skins since:
a.) The Redskins need a full time ILB. It's clear Porter cannot be that every down LB.
b.) 100% chance he would be salty about coming off the field. Who needs this distraction on the sidelines? With a full overhaul in coaches and 25% change in roster, team chemistry will take time. We don't need to make it any worse with Porter's antics.
Here are his stats from last year:
Update: And if that's not enough, Levi Jones and Porter have a HUGE beef with each other (via Steinberg...video of them fighting in a Vegas casino...hilarious stuff).
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No Porter............
Please no Porter……………….LJ and Grossman are a stretch in my book,but a guy like Porter is not even close to the type of player we need in DC………..
"I love the smell of napalm in the morning"
While I am not worried about Shanahan bringing in salty vets...
I would not consider Porter to be a great signing for us. If he has no desire to help bring along young players then he is not a good fit here for that reason alone.
As for him being a “salty” vet, I think you leave it to Shanny to decide if he can control him. If it was Zorn or Spurrier then I would not want a guy like that on the sideline. But older coaches are capable of dealing with guys like Porter. That combined with the understanding that this could be his last shot to play in the NFL would be enough to convince me he would contribute.
Bottom line for me though is “NO” to Porter.
Yea, Bill Parcells couldn't even control him...and he had the best practice ever with T.O.
As Phinsider said, there’s a reason only his former team asked for an invite and still offered no contract.
"I am excited about starting 2009. We are looking forward to an outstanding year. We're on our way. We have a lot of healthy players this year." - Vinny Cerrato
by Kevin Ewoldt on Mar 18, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Porter
I have to change my mind. I thought we should not downgrade him too much because of off the field antics (although I didn’t have any opinion on his on-field play) , but this post is a revelation. I’d say – don’t touch this guy – he’s toxic, not worth the trouble.
Check out the update I just added at bottom of post
Link to Levi Jones and Porter fighting in a Vegas club (video)
"I am excited about starting 2009. We are looking forward to an outstanding year. We're on our way. We have a lot of healthy players this year." - Vinny Cerrato
by Kevin Ewoldt on Mar 18, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
As I already stated, this guy is the ultimate piece of garbage
Can you imagine being this guys teammate? We don’t need him in any capacity. Treat him like a drug, just say no!
Do we have any indication that Levi Jones
is even a Redskin? I don’t want Porter, just wondering about Jones.
Levi has several offers including one from the Redskins
"I am excited about starting 2009. We are looking forward to an outstanding year. We're on our way. We have a lot of healthy players this year." - Vinny Cerrato
by Kevin Ewoldt on Mar 18, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
negative
"I am excited about starting 2009. We are looking forward to an outstanding year. We're on our way. We have a lot of healthy players this year." - Vinny Cerrato
by Kevin Ewoldt on Mar 18, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Do guys like Levi and Yoder
still participate in the most recent meetings that started Monday? They are still listed on the Skins’ roster, but without contracts.
by Jefferson1935 on Mar 18, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
No team allows a player not under contract to work out in its facility
The liability if they should get hurt is too great.
If you go back to the Culpepper situation his team didn’t want him working out and he was under contract.
Except for initial rookie signings
And only until camp ends. Then they go away until a contract is signed.
Porter..
I’m really not onboard with signing him persay but at the same time I’m not opposed to it either as he is a proven passrusher in the 3-4 scheme albeit from the same side as Orakpo. I believe he would be a situational player and as long as he can accept that then giving him a shot to help our rebuilding team hopefully won’t be a detrament. I just wonder how Levy feels about this??….lmao
Porter has seen better days...
He will not be a long term answer and might take critical playing time from the younger guys who could be better against the run. Also if his attitude shows up negative would it be worth the trouble and drama to have him around.
I could be wrong and coach is honest with him tells him what he expects and warns him that he will be benched or cut if he can`t accept his role. We already have guys who can`t tackle or catch passes on defense.
We could put an incentive clause in his contract
where he only gets paid if he has a certain sacks-to-snaps ratio. Just a thought.
He'll throw a shit storm when he's not on the field...
Clause would have to be zero suspensions or off-field antics
"I am excited about starting 2009. We are looking forward to an outstanding year. We're on our way. We have a lot of healthy players this year." - Vinny Cerrato
by Kevin Ewoldt on Mar 18, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Most normal people (not us posters) work hard and do what they are told
for their daily wages. I understand low wages with high incentives. We should put him on minimum salary for a vet with huge penalties for d-baggy antics on and off the field. Better yet, bring some kid in who is hungry and trainable and don’t waste a roster spot.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
I really wouldn't mind having him as a situational pass rusher.
He still shows plenty left in his tank pertaining to that. Not to mention we need our D to become more aggressive, as Haslett said when he first got here. Having him for maybe 3 million a year wouldn’t be bad at all.
Orakpo!!! Russel Okung next year!
We Need Porter
I can’t remember when the defense had any type of attitude, shit talker, noise maker ETC.
The only sign of flare on our defense is Laron Landry flexing his biceps after tackling the opposing RB who just ripped off another 14 yards.
I would love seeing the J.Peezy “kickhisass” celebration after a brutal blindside hit on romo/mcsabb/eli
The Redskins...the new Bengals
Should we add Pacman as a CB and really strike fear?
Imagine being at the bottom of a scrum with Haynesworth, Porter, and Pacman on you….I’m pretty sure you’d be violated in more ways than 12.
"I am excited about starting 2009. We are looking forward to an outstanding year. We're on our way. We have a lot of healthy players this year." - Vinny Cerrato
by Kevin Ewoldt on Mar 18, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
He was voted 2nd dirtiest defensive player in the league behind AH
other than that, I don’t necessarily want him on the team.
To me, signing Porter means they are trading Carter.
They both serve basically the same role as a pass rush specialist at OLB.
I don’t think Carter plays End or against the run as linebacker. Carter also cannot cover so basically we have 2 identical players for the same purpose. Carter though is a leader and positive influence. I think there must be something in the works with Carter.
Disagree
Carter will at least attempt to play the run. He was actually pretty decent last year. Porter doesn’t care about anything but rushing the QB. Carter is also not a virus.
Carter is definately a leader and positive influence.
As an outside backer, he figures to be less effective against the run, and a 1-2 down pass rush specialist.
christina aguilera's Dirty
Can have the band play that on sundays as our new contingent of naughty boys take the field.
We better not sign washed up porter…
The Beat Box aka skins secondary.
Looking at Porter's PFF stats:
His pass rush stats (negative 6.8) were his worst even though he had 9 sacks. His quarterback pressures and hits were not that great considering the sack level. His run defense and pass coverage were acceptable. He played both right and left outside linebacker so he is not strictly a ROLB.
He does not compare well with Orakpo – http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=OLB3&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1 – whose experience is likely to improve in terms of PFF stats. Orakpo’s PFF stats are peculiar since he is one of the best in the quarterback sacks, hits, and pressures, but his pass coverage and run defense hurt his overall rating.
That is why I have a problem with PFF.
Their stats don’t always jive with what’s happening on the field. I saw several Dolphin games, and know 2 Dolphin fanatics, and all of our impressions were that Porter was atrocious against the run and in coverage, and his effort was less than good. He is a pass rusher only, IMO, and cares for sacks and pressures. He was demoted by their coaching staff for these very reasons. Stats are great and useful for relative comparisons, but the ‘eyeball’ test is the best barometer of a player’s performance.
The apples and oranges analogy:
At least in the case of Orakpo, PFF main classification of him was OLB (apples) and he did play off the line of scrimmage in that roll. The more conventional roll of a 4-3 OLB was one in which Orakpo had minimal college experience. In PFF’s statistical profile for such a player, Orakpo did not measure that well. On the other hand, as a pass rushing DE (oranges), he was very good. Going to a 3-4 OLB, he rating would have been better. With more experience his run defense should improve as well as his PFF rating.
Considering A. Rolle and Dansby’s PFF ratings, the PFF raters probably need to focus more on the “disruptive factor” in certain defensive schemes. The Saints did not rank anywhere near as high as the Skins in defense, but their turnover advantage was about the best. It looks like one of the objectives of Skins new defense is to be more disruptive.
The eyeball is part of the PFF as well as Football Outsiders procedures when they review videos and then quantifying their observations. It is an objective approach that needs refinement.
by Jefferson1935 on Mar 19, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree, I also use 'outsiders' with 'pff' and 'stats' for an overall perspective.
But the bottom line still comes down to the eyeball test. If a player looks like he’s playing good, you don’t need sites to tell you that. Same with a player playing badly, your eyes tell you what’s going on.
Joey Porter
His biggest asset was always his pride. He fought to be the best at everything, and he was in the perfect atmosphere in Pittsburgh with Coach Cowher (who loved Joey) and Dick Lebeau who could handle him easily. The tough approach won’t work with Joey, he gets defensive and he’s stubborn.
In his prime he was dangerous in pass coverage and pass rush, never a good run stuffer. The problem is when he left Pittsburgh he left an atmosphere tailor made for him for one that didn’t suit him at all. Now, he seems defensive and angry, and I wouldn’t touch him, even if he could still be very valuable if he gets in a situation with people he will listen to.
I agree, Joey Porter 5-6 years ago would be a very good pick-up.
I think that is what Haslett and Shanahan remember.
Why look at Porter?
They wouldn’t be looking at Porter if they had grabbed Foote. They played it “cool” and let him slip away, and are probably now regretting it. Joe Gibbs and Vinny and Dan would never have let him leave here unsigned. Sometimes you just have to strike while the fire is hot. Maybe they’ve been saving up money for the big one – Bradford, Clausen or Okung.
Ah.
Thought you were talking about Anthony Davis being one of the rookies we’re saving up for. My fault.
The Skins approach
Shanahan and Allen are slowly and carefully building the team they want, and on balance it looks good. Foote may have asked too much or didn’t really want to come here, or Haslett may not have thought he would fit in, so there are probably a lot of good reasons they passed on him. Not getting him left a need for a linebacker in the 3-4, which they are now trying to fill with guys like Porter (!). But I wasn’t being critical (I didn’t want to chase any of the high priced FAs). Just observing that sometimes it is necessay to be aggressive. I do think that Joe Gibbs, Vinny and Dan were all alike in one way: if they wanted somebody, they got him. It’s been a pretty slow period, and they haven’t filled any of the major needs (The O-line still needs two tackles, at least), although there could be fireworks at any minute. I am still hopeful, partly because we have a lot of resources and options.
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