Cool Breeze
by J.Cash on Mar 15, 2010 8:10 PM EDT
63 comments
Chris Cooley is a baller! He's within the top five TE's in the NFL if you asked me (and since I'm writing this post, let's just pretend that you did, mmkay?). But as much as I love the guy, here are my reasons for trading him now.
1.) Offensively, he has been one of our most consistent play makers, especially when Joe Gibbs was running the show. He had a knack for finding the open field and making big plays out of virtually nothing. But, he's coming off of a major leg injury. We speak a lot about Moss, whom my friend CJHutch feels that he's lost a step due to hampstrings, but we really don't know if Cooley himself will return to his 08 form.
2.) Fred Davis got the opportunity to see the field and he made the most of it. In the Sherm Lewis offense, he played execptionally well and showed inprovements on a weekly basis. There were times I was watching the games and I wanted the ball to go to Davis before going to Thomas. Call me crazy, but his second half of the season knack for finding the endzone should carry over into next season. It's not just enough for him to catch the ball. He's actually developing into a surprise Red Zone target.
3.) Two bulls in the ring. Two talented TE's. One who's proven, yet coming off of a major injury. The other who 's proving himself and shows a lot of potential to "get er done". Davis was drafted in the second round just two short years ago, so the likelyhood of him being traded is slim. I stated before, that this is like having Kobe Bryant and LeBron James on the same team: There's just not enough balls to go around. It would be different if one were a legitimate receiver, and the other was a TE. But they both play the same position, and even if we line them up in 2 TE sets, one of their stats will suffer and I'll refer back to this post. Which brings us to...
4.) Trade Value for Cooley would maximize our opportunity to fill another need with a higher calibre player. If you trade Moss for a potential 3rd rounder, you'll "hypothetically" get a player worth 3rd round skillsets. It may be "depth" at another postition, but you'll be thinning yourself out at reciever. Afterall, the only WR that's seen legitimate playing time on our current roster, would be Devin Thomas, a second year player (technically third, but his rookie season was awful. I stand by 2nd). Malcolm Kelly, Marko Mitchell, haven't played much at all last year, and though I expect a big improvement from Kelly, I'm still crossing my fingers, toes, and eyes hoping that it happens.
Contrarily, if you trade Cooley, you can get an impact player for him and already know what Fred Davis is capable of. We can get a second round calibre player to add more lineman. OR, since we just lost Foote to Pittsburgh, get a LB for the soon-to-come 3-4. You just have more opportunities with a Cooley trade than you do with a Moss.
5.) Keeping Cooley now, means we'll be talking about trading ONE of them by next year sometime. Everyone's been asking the second rounders of 08 to step up, and Davis is showing signs of just that. To inject Cooley to the full time TE position, is a step back for Davis. Something's got to give.
So, what are your thoughts? Shout out to the regulars: CJHutch, Tills, BayArea, CarverM, H Money, Milcmann, Kevin E, Sugar, Rekka and even the controversial, LJP. (Damn, now I feel like I just shot a rap video...)
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It depends what we'd get for him
Probably a 2nd rounder. I’d be OK with the trade, though 1/2 of Redskins fans would go bananas.
And 2nd round pick (OL or RB) would provide so much more than Cooley and Fred Davis. It sounds like it’s going to be a 2 TE system….though right now they have 4 of them.
"I am excited about starting 2009. We are looking forward to an outstanding year. We're on our way. We have a lot of healthy players this year." - Vinny Cerrato
I meant to say a 2nd round pick...
And drafting an OL or RB paired with Fred Davis would go further than no 2nd round pick and having Cooley and Fred. This is all under the assumption they don’t pick a dud at 2…which could happen.
"I am excited about starting 2009. We are looking forward to an outstanding year. We're on our way. We have a lot of healthy players this year." - Vinny Cerrato
by Kevin Ewoldt on Mar 15, 2010 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions
My point
This is all under the assumption they don’t pick a dud at 2…which could happen.
EXACTLY. Look, I don’t wanna trade Cooley. But if we could get a starting left tackle for him, then go for it. But NOT one from the draft. At least, not unless his name is Okung, or maybe Bulaga or Williams. Bottom line – how would we feel if we traded Cooley for a guy who turns out to be more Chad Rinehart than Jon Jansen?
Absolutely.
It IS based off of what you can get for him. I just see us having better options with Cooley, while at the same time knowing what Davis can do. That, to me, is a win-win.
But I see we’re on the same page here, in a sense.
OK, here's our common ground
if we get to a certain pick, and the team there is interested in our Pro Bowl, fan favorite tight end, AND there is a guy we grade out as a starting LEFT tackle or runningback, then pull the trigger. Getting a guy who is quintessential to our rebuilding effort is the ONLY way you give up Cooley.
Or, we can do a 180 from our previous FFO
and trade home grown talent who are in their prime for some pie in the sky chance on an unproven player…oh wait…can we throw in a 4th rounder from next year’s draft just to sweeten the deal?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
yeah
I hate it but for the right compensation, you gotta pull the trigger…..I would only do it for a first.
Coming off a broken foot doubtful...altho does OAK or CLE need a TE?!?!
"I am excited about starting 2009. We are looking forward to an outstanding year. We're on our way. We have a lot of healthy players this year." - Vinny Cerrato
by Kevin Ewoldt on Mar 15, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
They need a new team, Period. But to send him to Oakland, would be asking him to retire.
Not fair to him.
The Pats need one
and have 3 2nd rounders but they pretty much use TE’s only for blocking.
by BayAreaBullet on Mar 15, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I've never heard of a broken foot being a serious, career threatening injury.
If that were the case, who would give up a second rounder for suspect goods? We have spent a decade watching imbeciles manage our roster – just because we have experienced being parched in the desert of no draft picks doesn’t mean we swing entirely in the opposite direction and sacrifice what talent we have for the notion that draft picks are everything.
I certainly would like to pick up a couple extra picks, but let’s do it by trading players smartly. Right now, I could envision trading Rodgers, Landry and Moss. They all have value, but in the long run wouldn’t be missed given our depth in those areas. I would then put either Cooley or Davis in the slot with Yoder and Ryan in as blockers, and DT as the wideout in a heavy run/pass formation. I like having 2 blocking and 2 primarily receiving TEs (though they have yet to re-sign Yoder, in which case – if they do not – we do not have the depth we need at TE to trade any of them.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
I hear you, I just don't agree that we would have depth at receiver in that scenario.
Cooley, Davis, Yoder, and the new TE Sean Ryan, sounds pretty deep if you ask me.
At some point we have to get those guys (WRs) on the field as well,
but I’d like to trade Moss or at best use him as a backup. Possibilities are great.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
I would only trade him if we really like the deal(top 40 pick IMO)
I don’t think there should be any added impetus to trade him unless we really like the offer.
I think
you misunderstood me on Moss. I didn’t say, or didn’t MEAN to say, that he has lost a step. My implication was that he is getting old, actually, IS old for a “speed receiver”. As far as the hamstring problems, I just meant that, since he has had them his whole career, they will do nothing but get worse with age. Add all that up, and what you come up with is that NOW is the best time to trade him.
As for Cooley, like I said before, I don’t see trading a Pro Bowler, in his prime, for an unknown commodity. And, as much as I liked what Davis did last year, he still hasn’t proven that he can produce as consistently as Cooley.
Oh, I got you on Moss. And I agree to an extent.
Nut we don’t really have the depth right now, and what WR’s do you think are 3rd round draft pick worthy?
I've said before
this, to me, is a rebuilding year. We will have a patchwork O-line, will be implementing new systems on both sides of the ball, and will feature two 30 year old runningbacks. So I am just fine going into the season with Thomas and Kelly penciled in to start, then Mitchell and another reasonable free agent addition rounding out the top 4. Truthfully, whether Moss is here or not, I expect Thomas to be the #1 receiver. And I think he will have a more productive year than Moss, should he stay healthy.
Agreed on this
Cooley has been doing for years, what Davis did for half a season.
Let Freddie do it for a whole season, and let’s talk again next year. But as of right now, trading Cooley out with the possibility of Davis being a “flash in the pan,” would not be the smart way to do things.
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
Not
if we’re doing 2TE sets!
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
Then it's moot anyway to get rid of Cooley.....
I like Yoder but don’t see him as a long term scary solution at TE for a 2 TE set. I think this Ryan guy is more of a blocker…….something like 8 teams I think he has been on…..doesn’t speak well for offensive production! If we are going to commit to a 2 TE set…..we have to keep Cooley!
Lol, sshhhhuuuusssshhhh...*whispering* I have a date with the wife tonight. Wish me luck.
Now where’s my Cialis…
My one thing is this
It’s not that Chris Cooley is a fan favorite. The guy is a great personality, and if he left, I would follow him else where, that’s fine with me. The issue is that you can’t get reward if you don’t take a risk. A top 5 TE, that is about to enter a system that would have produced a 1000 yard TE in Owen Daniels, who, in my opinion, is not as good as Cooley. Cooley could be as effective as any receiver in this system, and I don’t think you can argue that Davis is better. You gotta take a risk and believe he is gonna bounce back and be better then ever. Davis was a favorite target of Campbell, and truth be told, I think he can be just as good as Cooley, because he’s got the same style, but his hands caused a few problems last year, and I am still hang on a few of his balls that were tipped right into the arms of a defender.
As much as ARE was poor on punt returns,
he was also a clutch 3rd down receiver that was significantly responsible for Campbell’s percentage completion rate. Someone will need to be the go to guy to take ARE’s place. The young receivers have not proven that they could do that.
by Jefferson1935 on Mar 16, 2010 2:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Not blaming ARE, but he was always good for that 2.5 yd catch
on 3rd and 3.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Trade him....
Second rounder….absolutely, but a third rounder for Moss is a wish that wont come true. Our best bet for Moss is to make him our slot receiver and finally give Thomas and Kelley an entire season as starters to see exactly what they are capable of.
I like the idea of Santana in the slot
he’d be a prototypical slot receiver. He’s got solid hands and he’s quick. I think he’d be dangerous in the slot and be able to produce for a few more years
Do, Moss is soft as a twinkie. You can not be soft playing the slot. I was not a big A.R.E. fan but he is was pretty tuff.
I am glad that we finally got rid of him though.
by LETJASONPASS on Mar 16, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Chris Cooley is the biggest beauty on this team.
Guaranteed Shanahan is in his office right now, salivating over his notebook over all the offensive schemes and mismatches he can create with two huge, pass-catching TE’s. Both of them show no problem bulldozing one or two defenders and continue to show improvement in run and pass defense. Why trade away one of the biggest advantages we bring on gameday?
If they could get a 2nd round pick for Cooley, then I would do it.
The team has too many needs that have to be filled, and having 2 quality TEs gives them the option of getting back a quality player at a need position. I personally don’t see the 2 TE set as being overly successful. Better to fill a gaping hole somewhere else.
Also a trade with Moss for a 3rd rd pick would be another good move IMO. 3rd rd receivers who should be available include: Jordan Shipley, Jacoby Ford, Taylor Price, Carlton Mitchell, all excellent prospects with speed and kick return ability.
Everyone seems to forget
that the only reason we can talk about Davis is that Cooley got hurt. We have not re-signed Yoder. If we go into the season with Ryan, Cooley and Davis, and any one of them get hurt, we are a tad screwed.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Couldnt agree with you more....Cash
This is what I’ve been saying for the longest time but you put it in much better words than I did. As much respect as I have for Cooley, he’s truly overrated. Defenses trap JC into doing what they know he’s going to do…which is throwing to Cooley. They blitz us at will and just leave a safety over top Cooley so in theory he’s really not being covered. And once the ball goes to Cooley which the defense already knows it is….the safety just comes up to make the tackle for a minimum gain. This is why our offense is so easy to defend. Now to be fair on Cooleys part…he has made defenses pay for that on many many occasions but it doesn’t help our offense in the long run. I would also add that taking JC’s favorite target away may be good for him by forcing him to look down field more often. Making JC expand his game beyond the outlet pass. This is what you may call addition by subtraction.
Not to mention….if we could get a second rounder for Cooley, that is beyond greater value. And this is what I’ve been saying for the longest time. Cooley probably really is worth a 3rd rounder maybe even a 4th…so if we could get a 2nd…then that my friends…that is a steal. With all the criticism JC takes (definately from me) its one thing that he has done over the years….brought Cooleys value to the top. So lets use this to our advantage and trade Cooley for a much more valuable 2nd round pick.
by mr.snyderhireme on Mar 16, 2010 12:52 AM EDT reply actions
You are making a number of assumptions, the main one
is that the offense is going to be the same and another is that there will be predictable tendencies in the play calling in which defenses can feed off of.
by Jefferson1935 on Mar 16, 2010 2:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Where do you get the idea that Cooley is overrated?
Just because our vanilla offense allows the D to key off on our tendencies, doesn’t mean Cooley is “overrated.” As Jeff say, anyone who believes we will have anything similar to last year’s O on the field is rooting for another team. If anything, both Cooley and Davis get better under the new regime.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Scott, Cooley is a good route runner, but is at best average when it comes to blocking.
by LETJASONPASS on Mar 16, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
PB TEs are known for their blocking
generally as an afterthought. Only receiving TEs (rightly or wrongly) get the nod; at least in the last 10 years or so. IMO.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
What!? are you talking about
Every year with different coaches and different playbooks…who still remained the most targeted with JC under center? Cooley. What I am talking about has nothing to do with play calling. Re-read everything I wrote in my last reply.
by mr.snyderhireme on Mar 16, 2010 4:37 AM EDT reply actions
How do you say Cooley is overrated?
Okay, so what JC throws to him all day? You know what that says? He is always open. He always catchs it COUGHCOUGHFREDDAVIS. He always makes big plays. When JC is in trouble, he knows one guy who is always there to save him, Kris Cooley. He will always get open, make plays, how could you say he is overrated because he is always wide-open?
Also, the guy doesn't get stopped for minimum gains
The guy breaks tackles like nothing even hit him…
As an ex football player I may see more details than you
Just read my intial post to this topic. COOLEY IS RARELY COVERED….WHY? BECAUSE THEIR TOO BUSY BLITZING JC AND THEY NO JUST LIKE THE WHOLE STADIUM KNOWS THAT MOST LIKELY JC WILL ALWAYS THROW TO THE OTLET GUY (MAINLY COOLEY) WHEN UNDER PRESSURE…BUT THE SAFETY PLAYS IT SAFE AND JUST HANGS OVER TOP OF COOLEY BOUT 10 YARDS BACK. THIS IS WHY COOLEY IS ALWAYS OPEN….ITS CALLED A TRAP….DEFENSES GIVES US THAT ALL GAME. If you’re not really really into football then there’s certain things you just dont see or understand
by mr.snyderhireme on Mar 16, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Circumstances abound in the NFL
Is Wes Welker overrated because he plays the slot w/Randy Moss on the outside? You are comparing an athletes abilities to how a defense matches up to him within the overall O we present. So what? He runs, we throw, he catches and runs. Had we a better line and a better Offensive system he would run, we would throw, and he would catch and run – most likely a different pattern, that’s all.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
so you really beleive
that if an offense knows that if they blitz Campbell will throw to Cooley as an outlet, that same defence will then give Cooley 10 yards to operate in, rather than tight cover him to take away the outlet pass.
Any defensive Co-Ordinator that would do that is either completel incompetent, or Greg Blache, or both.
Pommylee
You really think Cooley is overrated?
And how many times have you seen Cooley get stopped for a minimal gain? Not sure what you watch but Cooley seems to be pretty elusive for a TE. I’ve seen him break about 3 tackles during one play soooooo many times. And I’m pretty sure Campbell throws to him so often because they trust in each other that much. He knows Cooley will come through for him in which about 90% of the time he does.
Dude Read my initial response to this post
I’ve said not taking nothing away from Cooley, he has made defenses pay many many times for giving him that amount of space. You say JC throws to him ofeten because of the trust they have for one another….maybe true, but I think its more of JC not being able too hit any body down field when under pressure. Our offense is to predictive….defenses blitz us at will….JC doesn’t audible….receivers barely get the ball…JC gets brutalized by the blitz….and Cooley is the benificary of all the chaos. Its great that Cooley makes the defense pay for it majority of the time but it does not help out our offense in the long run. If you guys dont know football let me show you all. Class in session
by mr.snyderhireme on Mar 16, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
IMO, nothing you have stated is cause for concern
for me going into next season. New Coaches, new players, new deal.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
I didn't see an initial response when I posted my response Mr.
And I’m not sure how thats relevant to everything that Cooley has done for us. It’s not like JC has been getting sacked 40+ times the entire time Cooley has been here. But ok buddy.
One way to get to the Pro-Bowl
is to get recognized as a guy that can get open, catch the ball and get extra YACs by breaking tackles. He has consistently lead TE’s in YACs the last several years. I know some players get into the PB based on reputations only, but Cooley isn’t one of them. He is a consistent top level TE performer.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Cooley stays
football is about big guys that can put their hands in the dirt. Since we can’t get rid of the forward pass (which is an abomination) we need more big guys that can run routes. That’s my $0.02.
aww
we should have let you catch a pass one time or something. sorry we always had you livin’ in the trenches man.. haha
I get to carry the ball alot now
in rugby, and can say without a doubt that it doesn’t interest me very much. I figure it would be much the same if I were still playing football. No worries.
Cooley
I don’t like the idea of giving up Cooley (I’d trade Davis before him), but if we get enough, maybe. I’d demand a first round pick, but if you talk of a 2nd round pick, those are not all equal. It would have to be a high second round pick, like under 36 or so, to even consider. A number 60 overall pick would not be enough value for a proven player like Cooley. There are supposed to be at least 7 top quality (first round) OL/LT prospects, and I would guess that one of those would still be around at #36. Then we could get Bradford at #4 and two promising OL early in the second round. As I mentioned before, I’d take a QB at 4 because it’s our last and only chance to draft that early and thus get a top QB, whereas there are a lot of ways to beef up the O-line.
You had me up until
Bradford at #4. We do not need a QB at all in this draft. That’s like saying we need to trade down to get more lime to line the field with. Just not necessary.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Shockey went for a 2nd and 5th
and who did those draft picks turn in to……..wait for it……..wait for it……the Giants picked linebacker Clint Sintim and quarterback Rhett Bomar in second and fifth rounds respectively. Not exactly game changers if you ask me.
I could go either way. Last year when Cooley was healthy most of his time was spent blocking because our line sucked so badly. Line him up and Davis up, and make teams guess which guy stays in to block and which could go on a pattern could be dangerous
If, and only if we did determine that trading him was the way to go I’d look immediately north. I think the one option that could make sense is to send Cooley to Baltimore for Jared Gaither. Rumor has it they are shopping him, and most of the articles I have read indicate their 1st rounder may target TE Jermaine Gresham from OU. We ship them a proven commodity, they ship us a starting tackle a couple years younger and we can use our 2nd rounder on BPA and they can use there 1st rounder wherever they see fit.
Cooley for Gaither
Hate to lose Chris, but it is worth it to solve the O-line problem. That gives us enormous flexibility and the ability to use the #4 pick for a QB – presumably Bradford.
Aaaaaahhhhhhh!
I’m surrounded by MADNESS!! LOL.
Even if we were to make that trade – and I’d say do it – Bradford is not available to us. He is gone by #4. Draft a QB next year when we will know if Jason is the man or not.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
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