How would you guys feel about a Drafted Defense and a FA Offense in 2010.
by Tiller56 on Feb 9, 2010 9:31 PM EST
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PrintI have been thinking about some of the comments Johnny posted recently about playmakers on the defensive side of the football. We have been successful developing some of oue own talent on the defensive side of the football in recent years. We now have Rak, Jarmon, Gholston, Monty, McIntosh, Rodgers, Smoot, Barnes, Tryon, Landry and Horton who were all drafted by the Skins and who could become, if not already, solid starters and or budding superstars.
So how about going with the defense wins championships approach, and try to build through the draft to become the most dominate and feared defense in the NFL.
Supposing Clausen or Bradford go 1st to the Rams, who no doubt need a QB and face of the franchise. That leaves the Lions to take Suh, and the Bucs to take either McCoy or Berry. Who every the Bucs don't take, we would pick with at the #4 spot in the 1st rd. Assuming the Bucs take McCoy, we could arguably have the most feared Safety tandum in the NFL in Landry and Berry. If the Bucs opt for Berry, we then take McCoy, and pair him with Hansworth along the defensive front to make one helluva DT duet.
In the second we could opt to go for a quality OLB. Sergio Kindle may be a nice option early in the second. The two Texas boys could reek havoc with opposing QB's form their 3-4 OLB positions. The 4th could be for either a MLB like Micha Johnson from Kentucky, or a S or DT/NT depending on which one we took in the 1st rd. The 5th and 7th RD picks can be used for best avaliable, either Offense or Defense.
Now, not to ignore the Offense:
We retain JC and sign him to a 3-4 year extension. We re-sign Levi Jones to man RT. We sign Eugene Amano(Titans) to play LG. We make a play for a veteran C, and LT like Chad Clifton(Packers) or Chester Pitts(Texans). We get rid of ARE, and Portis, and sign Kevin Walter(Texans) and Leon Washington(Jets).
I'm not saying I am in agreeance with this approach, but I wanted to hear everyones thoughts.
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I picked 4, but 3&4 are the same to me.
I am pretty sure 90% will be unhappy with this approach, but I like the way you laid it out.
At #4, Berry or McCoy is a no-brainer, either one will instantly take the defense to the next level. Berry is a dynamic leader who will change field position and has an ability to score. With McCoy and Haynesworth, we will dominate the line of scrimmage every week for years, and get a ton of 3 and outs.
Kindle is another 3 down playmaker who can cover, stop the run and blitz.
Johnson would replace Fletcher as a dominant run stopper.
An instantly dominating Defense that could rival the ‘86’ Bears and ’00 ’Ravens in time. What I love about this is the youth, this defense could dominate for a decade!
The strategy is excellent because in the following years the team could focus on building the offense while always being competitive.
No one else may like it, but I give this draft an A.
Like you Johnny, I see 3&4 as not a matter of kind but degree.
My thought process on the Team’s balance has been over focused on the offensive line since last preseason. You, Tiller, and a few others have nudged me somewhat. The same sort of thing has probably happened to Rekka as well.
I like Eugene Amano and Rex Hadnot as possible unrestricted free agents at the guard positions. On the other hand, the OT are kind of old, but would work as patches for a year or two if they don’t cost too much. I was thinking as much for such moves last preseason when it was obvious that the O-Line had quality as well as depth problems.
A few unrestricted linebackers should be considered. First, Tully Banta-Cain [ROLB, snaps 725, Overall rating = 21.8, run def. 11.1, pass rush 14.9, pass coverage -2.2, penalties -2.0.] He must be somewhat of a system linebacker in that his performance was much better in 2009 (with the Pats) than it was in 2007 and 2008 (with the 49ers).
http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&surn=B&playerid=1534&group=6. Then Karlos Dansby RILB, [Overall rating = 2.0, about as good on run defense and pass defense.
http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2008&page=&surn=D&playerid=1754
Ryan Clark could be a stop gap free safety and Dunta Robinson [http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=1&surn=R&playerid=1731] has several more potential years of good service if he could get rid of the penalties.
Moves to get more draft picks could involve Chad Rinehardt, Malcom Kelly, and Marko Mitchell since they have demonstrated enough on the field to have some trade value at the 3rd to 5th rounds. There is need to get these picks to shore up positions of greater need.
I will accept the notion that it takes three seasons to develop some players while some others are top notch starters in their rookie year.
I agree with this statement, "At #4, Berry or McCoy is a no-brainer, either one will instantly take the defense to the next level. " The linebacker rookies can wait if free agency is successful.
I favor more emphasis on offense in 2010 at offensive line and running back. If the Skins could get an early 3rd round pick, Dan LeFevour, QB, could replace Collins on the roster. Stafon Johnson and Curtis Steele could be had as free agent running backs.
The existing known picks could be used for FS, DT, OT, or OG depending on what happens with the 1st round 4th pick. The options would open up given the depth of the draft for DT. I still like Kam Chancellor, FS, if he is still available in the 4th round, but Kendrick Lewis (Scouts Inc. grade 47) would do. John Jerry , OG, may still be on the board in the 5th round, but if not then Sam Young, OT; Adam Ulatoski,OT; Chris Scott,OT; Sergio Render, OG; and players of similar quality should be.
It is not mission impossible!
by Jefferson1935 on Feb 10, 2010 7:12 AM EST up reply actions
You're right Jeff
slowly but surely, I’m finding myself looking at the Berry scenario. I’ve actually had to stop myself from looking at youtube videos of him. I’m trying to stay strong though
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
I agree with your assessment.
I believe the Skins will be agressive in free agency, and target positions of need. That would allow for more flexibilty come draft day.
Pathos as a RT (from another board) is a sensible signing. I would think they will also sign one more starting lineman, Amano would fit.
The timing couldn’t be better for drafting linemen as this draft is loaded, both for instant starters and prospects to develope.
Any signing for defense should tip us off as to what their plans are. Do they make the 3-4 switch? If they don’t sign a FS, does that mean they are targeting Berry? If they sign Clark, then Berry is off the radar.
I like Dansby as Fletcher’s replacement and new defensive leader.
They should be able to easily pick up a starting LT and another eventual O-lineman in this draft without reaching.
Johnny....
if we sign Pashos and Amano…..do you think we would be better set up to go Berry at #4 and then get a lineman in the second….assuming we make no trades to get more picks?
What other scenarios do you see playing out with this combo.....
I am merely picking your brain! You appear to be pretty on point and I respect your opinion! You do more research than me….and would love your opinion on this scenario!
The big question is QB.
If they like either QB, that will be their pick at 4.
If they sign Campbell to a multi-year contract, they would look to trade the pick.
With no takers, they draft best player available.
Also depends on what happens with the teams ahead of them.
We will know more when FA starts, but as of now, I think they go Suh, McCoy, Berry if they fall. If those 3 are gone, and they don’t want the QB, then they go offensive lineman.
by johnnydee83 on Feb 10, 2010 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
The best performing unrestricted free agent tackles
are 32 to 34 years old. It is tempting to push for some of these kind of players for a year or two stop gap. Tiller suggested a few – “We re-sign Levi Jones to man RT. We sign Eugene Amano(Titans) to play LG. We make a play for a veteran C, and LT like Chad Clifton(Packers) or Chester Pitts(Texans).”
Chad Clifton (LT) is good at pass blocking, but not run blocking – http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=2&surn=C&playerid=614. That has been his story from 2007-2009. He has also been heavy on the penalties. With the outside rushers, it is common for the left tackle to do some holding.
Chester Pitts, LG, http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&surn=P&playerid=1057&group=1. His performance at LG in 2009 was not as good as Derrick Dockery’s.
The profile of NFL tackles’ performance can be readily seen as excellent to good from the first rated to the 28th
except for penalties – http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=T&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1
The profile of Guards’ performance is somewhat like tackles, but there are more of them that would rate at least good – http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=T&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1.
Any unrestricted free agent lineman should be good in both pass and run blocking with a minimum on penalties.
It is true that the QB’s performance can enhance that of the o-line and visa versa. Those penalties for holding can stop a drive. Third and long is hard to overcome even with the best of QBs. When you consider the field position battle those penalties, even for 5 yards, are tough to reverse. There are only so many opportunities for a drive in a game. The penalties on offense can also hinder the defenses performance if they stay on the field too long, especially the forth quarter.
by Jefferson1935 on Feb 11, 2010 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
I think it is too much to expect...
for 2 rookies to start at the tackle positions. Pashos at RT makes perfect sense. They should be able to get a better starting LT in the 1st 2 rounds then in FA. If they sign a younger Amano, they may try to pick a replacement RT up in the middle rounds. No Amano, then they probably try to go RG.
They have to get 2 O-line prospects in this draft.
by johnnydee83 on Feb 11, 2010 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
Jacksonville is a case in point.
They drafted Eugene Monroe, LT, (rd1) and Eben Britton, RT, (rd2). They also picked up Tra Thomas as a free agent after the Eagles dealt for Jason Peters. Thomas did play a little more at the beginning of the season. It took Monroe longer to adapt to the NFL game than Britton. In the mean while Jacksonville did not bring Tony Pashos back for another season and I think he missed training camp as well as the preseason.
Tra Thomas is again a unrestricted free agent.
I don’t think Pashos puts the Skins in a much better position than Mike Williams. Both are good run blockers but not very good pass blockers. Amano is also a better run blocker than pass blocker. That is one reason I preferred Rex Hadnot to Amano.
by Jefferson1935 on Feb 11, 2010 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
I think they are similar.
Amano allowed 1 sack and can play center, but Hadnot would fill the postion for a few years to allow going for the RT position is this draft. I still think that Heyer could eventually start at RT with more work. Then again, Rhinehart could also play RG in time.
The team has to secure that LT spot and add another O-lineman in this draft. Whatever the most skilled lineman in the 1st or 2nd for LT, and 4th or 5th for another spot should satisfy that requirement.
Redskins site says Heyer expected to start at RT.....
in 2010! Hopefully he is young enough that Shanny can work his OL magic with him. I don’t think he is horrible….but is in definite need of improvement and consistency!
Amano is not needed for center!
“I think they are similar,” not. His Pro Football Focus stats aren’t nearly as good as Hadnot’s since Hadnot as a RG rated overall as 17th amongst all guards and in particular is good at both run and pass blocking. Amano (rated 51st) is not even on a par with Derrick Dockery (rated 24th) at left guard, i.e. his pass blocking is weak and his run blocking rating is lower the Hadnot’s. Dockery rated much better than Amano on pass blocking, but not on run blocking. http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=G&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1. Chris Kuper, LG, who experienced with ZBS is rated 46th.
You mentioned the limitation of the kind of film or videos available to the non-professionals as being weak for assessing players. I don’t know the quality of PFF’s assessor, but it is more concrete evidence than about anything we can look at.
by Jefferson1935 on Feb 12, 2010 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
A few of the sites I go to regularly grade free agents.
All three grade Amano higher than Hadnot.
by johnnydee83 on Feb 12, 2010 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
I do go to pff sometimes, but
just for some comparative analysis. I have to question exactly how they obtain their statistics. I agree that grading players is largely subjective, but I still prefer the eyeball test rather than relying solely on chart counts.
by johnnydee83 on Feb 12, 2010 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
I agree....but don't....haha
I have no problem taking Berry at #4. I know some people do…..and I do understand their thought process. I think locking in on OL at 4 could be a mistake. We can pick up solid OL by trading back or going for them in the middle rounds. Late round RB……could work out well. I think Berry could be the guy we need to come out there and set a tone. I talked about that in another post today…..we have no identity…..we need a leader to emerge as the face of this franchise…..and that could be Berry. I hate to use another top ten pick on a safety….that would be 3 since 2004…..gotta be a first in history. But……have you read the scouting reports on this kid….the highlight films…..he is a monster. I know he isn’t perfect….but it’s the draft…..who is! As far as building the team….I think we go even on both sides…..draft 50/50…..FA 50/50…..build with the combo of youth and proven vets on both sides of the ball. We just need to get the big names out of our heads and find the football players. It’s the NFL…..you are talking about 3 players making the difference between a stud and a dud. We can’t use the HC as an excuse any longer. We have a coach that I have faith can get players in the right positions….it’s time to make sure we have those guys. Portis & ARE need to go. We don’t need a stud RB….couple of guys that can avg 4 yards per carry will do. I will say we should have at least one of them on the roster now. The offense isn’t missing a lot to be where it needs to be. You are talking a few lineman….a FA or late round RB……and a FA receiver (I like Walters Tiller). That is totally do-able in one offseason. As far as D…..I am all for stacking it and creating a monster….but I don’t think you bypass FA on doing this. There are solid role players out there…and if our OL troubles weren’t a clue….we need depth everywhere. Back to Berry though…..you get him….throw Landry back at the LOS as SS…his true position…..develop some corners for the future….and get some youth and speed at LB……WOW! I like the post Tiller……solid! Johnnydee83….you make great points as well…as always……I have enjoyed reading your posts recently…..very nice work!
I want to get behind this
but I just can’t. We have fielded NO drafted lineman this past year after Samuels went down (I don’t count Doc because he left for Buffalo.) and had to depend on FAs and UDFA. If we just got ONE early round lineman, I could probably get behind this, but it’s been too long for me.
Like you said, the defensive side of the ball has been getting most of the attention these past years, it’s about time the offense got some love to. Receivers not withstanding.
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
Rekka, it is all a gamble.
If the Skins can pick Charles Brown or one of Maurkice Pouncey, C [Scouts Inc Grade 90]; Vladimir Ducasse ,OT [Scouts Inc Grade 90]; Jon Asamoah, OG [Scouts Inc Grade 83]. Ryan Mathews, RB [Scouts Inc Grade 88] would be a decent pick as well.
by Jefferson1935 on Feb 10, 2010 7:25 AM EST up reply actions
Jeff,
I am really hoping Brown is there for us in the early 2nd, as i believe it would be a no-brainer pick. I am also for drafting Pouncy as he can play all 3 interior oline positions. IMO, we couldn’t go wrong with either of these 2 in the 2nd.
I’m tending to shy away from Matthews as na early pick, as some have seemed to sway me on the game-breaking type of RB that we have not had here. Johnny is high on McCluster. I’m a little more reserved, but I do believe if we draft a RB early, he should be a game-changer.
I agree, I also think...
that we can throw Ducasse in this mix as well.
This is now a 2-back league, a feature back and a change-of-pace back.
We need to target one of those in this draft.
Rekka,
I do agree, no linemen in the draft this year would be a mistake. I’m interested to see where we go in FA, so we may get a blueprint on the draft.
Very true
don’t get me wrong, I think it would be ignorant for us to not get Oline talent through FA, but I want a couple of guys that are going to be here for the next 10 plus years that we brought in and can grow together.
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
This is a great draft to grab 2 guys for O-line...
that should both be starters for a long time, and do so without reaching. They should be able to identify 15-20 guys in this group to be eventual starters. Coaching and schemes will elevate their level.
Good point Tiller
For the most part Tiller, I feel you and I are somewhat on the same page. I’ve been saying that building around Orakpo is more important than building around JC. We have to keep our strength strong or we’ll always be behind in something and never get to the franchise we want to be and our strength is the defense. Honestly when i watch Berry, he just looks like a Washington Redskin to me and I would be estatic if we drafted him. I had him going to us in one of my mocks along with sergio-kindle. One thing I can’t agree on is “Defenses Wins Championships” not so much these days, now you hve to be able to score
by mr.snyderhireme on Feb 10, 2010 10:09 PM EST reply actions
A great attacking defense can score.
Specifically Berry, who is a ball-hawk that will give the offense good field position.
by johnnydee83 on Feb 10, 2010 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
Really?
Because it was NO ability to hold the Colts to 7 points in the half that let them came back and win the game.
by Nobetterthenbob on Feb 10, 2010 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
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