Please JC haters wake up !! You might win in spite of a rookie QB, not because of him...
by LETJASONPASS on Feb 8, 2010 4:52 PM EST
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PrintIt always seems to amaze me how some on HH think that a rookie Qb is the answer. I love how some people not to mention any names (tiller) loves posting about drafting a qb. Come on people use your brains. I will be the first to admit that Matt Ryan is a good Qb . But lets be for real he had a good year in 2008 mainly because of Michael Turner. For those of you that like stats lets compare 2008 M. Turner stats 17 td's 1,699 yds / 2009 M. Turner stats 10 td's 871 yds.
Now for Mark " The Boy Wonder" Sanchez did the Jets win because of him. How many think it had more to do with the Jets having the top rushing offense and the dominate defense? Maybe it was because of Thomas Jones and his 14 td's and 1,402 yds? How about Shonn Grenne who is now the real key to the Jets running game. By the way don't forget Leon" Mr. All Purpose" Washington.
Ok, now for Matt Stafford, how did he do this year when he was not injured? (sorry dumb question) I actually felt bad for Stafford he had no running game and his best receiver (Calvin Johnson) was injured. So, I will give Matt Stafford a pass. But think about it how would Matt Ryan or Mark Sanchez look, if they had to start off early in their careers playing with garbage.
Urban Meyer was pretty telling in a recent interview. He was asked about Tim Tebow and his ability to play Qb in the NFL. He said he thinks Tebow can be successful if he gets on a good team. He did not just say Tebow would have a great career. The caveat was Tebow playing for a good team. So just imagine Tebow or any of these young guys playing behind the O-line that we had this year. I would say it would be a career changer for some and a ender for others.
I will be the first to admit if Jason Campbell had to take this pounding in his rookie year, he never would have made it through the whole football season.
Look around the league and you will find several Qb's that are better then Matt Ryan or Mark Sanchez but or surrounded by garbage. So, let me state this one more time You might win in spite of a rookie Qb, but not because of one. It all comes down to the talent that surrounds and shelters his rookie weakness like a cocoon.
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I got a few words for you LJP
Thank. You.
Wow. Just thank you.
I could not say it any better. It is getting me mad that people are saying one of our needs is quarterback…Is one of the Tennessee Titans’ needs a quarterback? Nope, but Vince Young isn’t passing as good as Campbell. So many of you guys are jumping the gun. You draft to improve your team. So, let’s think about this. We draft a OL in the first (Just gonna ignore LJP’s potential desire for CJ Spiller) and we immediately improve ourselves with a LT/RG/RT. OR We downgrade the quarterback position and ignore the terrible OL.
You guys forget that Campbell put up over 300 against the Super Bowl winning defense with a defender in his face every play. You guys forget that Campbell is probably the toughest quarterback in football right now, and we are about to put him in a system where Cutler, who is crap with Chicago, and Schaub, who was nobody before Kyle Shanahan, have excelled. You guys are crazy to want to get rid of Campbell. Give the guy two years in this system. Let’s focus on legitmate needs where we can get immediate upgrades too, instead of pulling a Tampa Bay, cutting a good quarterback (Jeff Garcia) and replacing him with a bunch of scrubs. Sure, Garcia wasn’t pretty, but that guy won games.
LJP, well done good sir. Well done.
Have to look at it from both sides.
I would surmise that Coach Shanahan doesn’t realistically think this team is ready for a deep playoff run. Let’s say he has a 3 or 4 year plan to build a team for a long term consecutive playoff streak. Would it be wise to keep the starter in place now? Then when the team is ready to make the leap to the next level, that starter probably will need to be replaced. Now you have a team ready to go the distance, but you now need a new QB.
Or get the rookie now to build the team around. Then in 3 to 4 years, you’re team is perfectly positioned with all the blocks in place.
Personally, I don’t think the team will be playoff ready for 3 years, a rookie QB may cost the team a few wins, but so what? It’s part of the growth process.
Looking at it from a coach’s perspective, I can see why they would go QB in the draft if they think they have their guy.
Then again I am the guy who would take McCoy, Berry, Davis with the 1st pick. I try to look at it from all sides, and honestly everyone is right. A solid case can be made for both sides. Yet only 1 person will make that decision. I am fine either way.
I think this is where a lot a lot of confusion on the matter comes from
Personally, I don’t think the team will be playoff ready for 3 years
If we are aiming at a 3 to 4 year plan, then I’d understand. If we change to the 3-4, trade some of our veterans away, then yes, drafting a Qb in the first round makes a lot more sense. However, IMO at least 2 games were losses due to poor coaching. I’ll add another one for the drama caused in the front office with their handling of Zorn. In my mind we are a 7-9 team, which isn’t good, but not bad enough for a whole blowup of the team or starting with a fresh QB that will hold us back a few years as we build around him.
I’d also like to point out that building around a QB hasn’t worked out well when you are relying on him to be the offense in the first year. I can make a huge list but I’ll just key into one year to make the point. 2002- Carr, Harrington, Ramsey, all selected in the first round. Carr was the guy that was suppose to turn the Texan’s franchise around. He became the most sacked QB in the league and is a shell of what his potential self could have been.
All in all, until we see how our receiving corps is, improve our running game and find a way to protect the QB, no rookie QB should be back there.
by Nobetterthenbob on Feb 8, 2010 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
The problem is also that this year the team has the #4 pick.
An opportunity that hopefully won’t come around again for a long time. Understanding also that the team has huge offensive line issues that have to be addressed this year. In my opinion based on what I have read, Bradford has an excellent chance to be a Drew Brees type QB. He has recovered 100%, has a stronger shoulder than before, and is progressing perfectly according to Andrews. There probably won’t be a chance for the skins to get a QB as good as this for years and years. This is a huge decision for Shanahan, and I would say it is 50-50 that he goes QB. Building the line is easier then getting a stud QB. If they get draft picks for Campbell, it is that much easier to build the line this year. I expect FA linemen to come in regardless, no way the line is as bad as last year.
I'd have to disagree with that as well
Flacco is an excellent QB and wasn’t taken until the middle of the first round. Freeman is exactly the same case. You can find great starting talent at QB anywhere in the first round.
With Shannahan going QB 50-50, there is only one time in his career that Shannahan has taken a QB in the first round, and I’m pretty sure he’s never taken one in the 2nd. His first season as the Broncos HC he took an Olineman with his first pick (it was a 4th rounder but it was still their first pick and a position of need). He’s taken an Olineman twice in the first round. Numbers support more that he goes Olineman first and waits at QB.
by Nobetterthenbob on Feb 9, 2010 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
Yea, I can definately see goin O-line first.
I am for going O-line or best player, but I can see the argument for goin QB. I don’t know what to expect of Shan, so I am prepared either way. Whenever you get this high of a pick, there is tremendous pressure to get the pick right. I don’t think there is a clear choice for an OL, and not at 4. Also what if a perennial pro-bowler is sitting there at 4, do you just ignore him and draft a LT?
Shanahan's past draft experience projected to the next draft.
The conditions for Shanahan with the Redskins and the Broncos are different. Denver did not need the kind of OL overhaul that is currently needed for the Skins. Consequently I don’t see his past draft experience or roster management with Denver projecting to the 2010 draft and free agency for the Redskins. He is very methodical and to that extent, some professional football people see him as a sort of savant or over driven.
by Jefferson1935 on Feb 9, 2010 6:13 AM EST up reply actions
Can't say I agree
OL was a big need before Shannahan got to Denver. Elway was sacked 46 times in 94. You’re telling me that’s not the same situation we have over here?
by Nobetterthenbob on Feb 9, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
O-line is clearly a need, but shouldn't spend all the draft picks there.
The skin O-line was atrocious last year due to injury and lack of quality depth. No one is denying that, I have total confidence that the O-line will be addressed thru FA and the draft. My contention is there are other positions that should also be addressed. Just because some here don’t feel the urgency to spend the #4 pick or all 5 picks on the O-line doesn’t mean that we don’t want the O-line fixed.
I want the O-line fixed, but don’t feel the desperation to use the 4th pick on the 8th best player, or to burn all 5 picks on the OL.
I am confident they can get a starting LT by rd 2, RG/RT by rd 5 and FA. I want to use the other picks on different positions to upgrade the roster.
Every position is subject to upgrade, some more than others.
True but...
Can’t say one of those positions is QB.
by Nobetterthenbob on Feb 9, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
That's for Shanahan to decide.
I am ok either way. Who knows, he may keep players that we think he shouldn’t, and get rid of players we think he should keep.
Have to factor in contract situations, cap numbers, age, ability to fit into a new scheme. Every position will be evaluated, and the draft prospects will be evaluated. Wherever they feel an upgrade makes the most sense, that’s the direction they’ll go.
The more I look at it,
the more it looks like ShanAllen will blow it up. Even if Campbell stays, the offense needs 7 new starters in the next 2 years. The defense is going 3-4, time to face up to it, that’s another 6 starters on defense. That’s a major overhaul of starters, not to mention completely new O & D schemes. Yea, my expectations are definately tempered. It’s better to expect the worst. Unlike last year where I thought the team was going for a deep playoff push. What a kick in the nutsack that was.
Johnny, when you consider the offensive line alone
and the value of consistency (playing together for some time), it will take a number of games in the regular season to obtain that synergy. If I recall correctly, you said that this was a situation where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. It is not mark and paste to make it go well. The Giants had this for a number of years. It is more than just the O-Line. Running back by committee seems to work well for a number of teams. I suspected that the Giants running game would falter when they lost Ward.
Dallas has their trio of running backs, but perhaps not the best O-Line. The Jets have a good O-Line and their two running backs – T. Jones and Greene could go through the holes in the line of scrimmage and to the secondary. I suppose the best words are team balance.
by Jefferson1935 on Feb 9, 2010 6:24 AM EST up reply actions
I think Rabach, Dockery, and maybe Jones/Heyer might stay this year.
Which would have some stability when bringing in a rookie or FA- LT and RG. Next year will need to see a new C and RT. That appears a best case scenario, but in the next 2 years you’re still overhauling the OL. The Cowboys and Giants also have O-line woes, just not as severe. A big problem as I see it is trying to refit the team to new schemes while using so many resources on just the O-line. Bringing in rookie tackles has to include ramp-up time for them to get up to NFL standards. Unless the team gets more draft picks, I don’t see how they can use more than 2 picks on OL. They have to get 2 defensive players and a Rb.
If you are looking at a 3-4 yr plan
it makes even more sense to not draft a QB this year. Build your core offense and improve the line for next year. See if JC can operate the Shanny system. Draft from a stronger group of QBs next year for someone to groom if you want, but JC has 10 yrs in him if he gets some protection. He’s not that old. I can see covering all bases here very easily without drafting a QB with our #4 this year.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
If Shanahan is comfortable with Campbell, I am to.
That would make it easier to fill other holes on the line and defense. If Shan does pick B/C, that would just add to the confusion.
I guess the bigger question is, does he rebuild from scratch and implement his new schemes in year 1, or does he gradually try to transition from old to new?
Smart money is on evolution
not revolution which could lead to devolution very easily with a QB bust.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
didn't he say something when he first got here
about fitting his schemes to the players he has?
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
Maybe...
we should have been running the 3-4 all along and nobody noticed?
by Nobetterthenbob on Feb 9, 2010 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I see you point...
Problem is this… We paid a guy 100 million dollars to play in a position that technically will not be there in a 3-4. Now we also have to decide which good Defensive end to play… trouble ahead
"When the rich wage WAR its the POOR that die!!!"
That contract is an albatross.
That will haunt the team for years. Haynesworth is going to have to move all over the line, NT, DE, DT.
Trouble ahead is right, back to renogotiating contracts to squeeze other contracts in, and pushing the bill to next year. Typical Washington.
Drafting a QB
You JC Lovers give excuses for his poor play. JC has never been good, even when he had a good O-line. Our offense has always underperformed. He has not improved much at all. He never makes plays or leads winning drives. He misses open receivers all the time, and often fails to see open guys. Thomas and Kelly developed slowly at least partly because they got discouraged – they’d get open, but JC wouldn’t throw it to them. Jason is a tough guy and a good runner, but has lousy field vision and a poor grasp of the offense (and that’s partly from one who knows – CP). JC is a mediocre QB, and we need a good QB to hope to win steadily. It could be that JC would be a little better (and a safer choice) next year than a rookie, but what about after that? He will never get better, whereas the rookie would (hopefully). Why not look to the future, reject mediocrity, go for the gold? This is probably a good year to break in rookies, because we probably won’t win more than 8 games, no matter what.
Jason Campbell has never had an O-Line.
And I’m really tired of arguing this point. Does anyone in this blog community play football? Has anyone ever actually played QB? I need you to chime in and address those who don’t understand.
Jason Campbell HAS improved and, believe it or not, has lead the team down the field a number of times, inspite of. Now, I may need to have my blog comment license revoked after this, but you guys have got to be kidding me!!!
Only those who know or have played football should comment on a QB. Otherwise, it’s just like they say: When they win, it’s “all because of the QB”. When they lose, “it’s all because of the QB”.
And that’s just pathetic.
OK Cash
Would you consider someone who has played college football, coached football, and is now involved in recruiting enough to make arguments about our QB situation?
Because I’m the one who’s stirring the pot when it comes to this. It’s not that I do not like JC, but more to the fact that I think Bradford is much more talented and a better fit for this team.
OK Cash
I second Tiller – it’s not so much that I dislike JC or even think he’s a bad QB. It’s just that (IMO) he is not as good as about 20 or 30 QBs in the league. Call him mediocre, below average or whatever, he is not an excellent QB. And if this team wants to win consistently in this league, they probably need somebody better. No more excuses for JC! I understand that Shanahan might decide to stick with JC, and I’d be rooting for them and the team to succeed if he did. But I wouldn’t be too confident.
JC - O-line
What about before Thomas and Samuels were hurt? And the O-line that Todd Collins led to the playoffs, after JC compiled a losing record? Watching the games on TV, listen to the announcers repeatedly pointing out JC’s deficiencies – hesitating, not looking downfield, poor footwork, poor throws, not seeing open receivers (who were sometimes openly frustrated), etc. Note increasingly critical comments from Jim Zorn. Remember how we saw the offense sputter for years. And listen to Portis on how JC runs the offense.
That was years ago
are you suggesting that no one in the league improves their skills as they gain experience? I think the book is still out on just how good he can be, but not only is he statistically better than half the league, he has improved those stats despite the DIGRESSION of the Oline. Given the leap it takes to go from college to the pros, JC has more than a leg up on ANY QB in the draft, this year and ANY year. Not to mention he has a history with this receiving corps.
Again, not saying JC will ever by a top tier QB, but he is a solid way to go, especially if you think a rookie is the answer.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Unmeritted
Samuels is overrated. Name one stud DE that he consistently shutdown??? I’ve ALWAYS said that he was overrated. Thomas was not even better than him. And let’s not go Todd Collins. That’s not valid either. That team pplayed their hearts out on defense and was inspired by the loss of Sean Taylor. Portis was playing hard, and it was by far not Collins. When the game was on the line in Seattle, and your precious Collins had to win the game, what happened? Two picks on back-to-back series. No one wants to talk about that though….
And “announcers”? Since we all "watch the games, tell me who primarily calls them. Troy Aikman, Daryl Johnston, Ron Jaworski. When have they EVER been “Pro-Redskins”??? Snyder made us the laughing stock of the NFL, and they made for damn sure that everyone knew it. So ANYTHING that Campbell did, was downplayed, and that’s “no-excuse”. Lemme tell ya, this league is just as much about the “story-line” as anything. They feed you repetitive nonsense, regardless of the behind the scenes agendas, and you soak it up and make it the 11th Commandment.
There’s no “excuse” for our offensive line. A line that hasn’t been addressed in 10 YEARS in the draft. this is what makes my head spin when I talk about this stuff, because you guys refuse to understand that and are (IMO) caught up in the football hype. Campbell’s stats were way better than the 20-30 QB’s you didn’t mention, I guarantee it, and he had to work around chaos in the process. Zorn’s words meant NOTHING because he didn’t know sh*t. I’d trust a monkey’s word first. And Portis is the LAST guy in that locker room who’d I’d listen to about running the offense, and this is from a guy who’s watched and supported him since he was at the “U”.
C’mon guys. Think.
J.Cash, Samuels has been the walking wounded for a while now. We should have been drafted a LT.
This is one reason I went so hard on Joe Buegel..
Samuels was still one of the best LT in the game up until he got hurt last year.
I’m not quite sure you know what your talking about here.
To be fair, Campbell was healthy at the end of the year.
The coaching staff felt that Collins gave them the best chance to win.
Campbell could have come back for the playoff game.
He was recovered from his knee, but the staff wanted to stay with the hot hand. Campbell was out a month, he wanted to play, but Gibbs didn’t want to make a switch for the playoff game. Can’t blame Campbell or Gibbs for that.
The point was that Collins played well for them down the stretch.
Didn't see that, Johnny
They sent him in a couple of times when JC was in a daze, but he always came back out to gut it through. Not many QBs would have opted that nor survived for that matter.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
not again
why is it that just because some fans feel the Redskins need to draft a Q – back you feel the need to call people out ? maybe you should lay off of people and get a life , everyone on here is entitled to their own opinion , you seem to have come to HH thinking you know everything and anyone who does not agree with you does not know football , your starting to sound like a retard on crack
'' If we score , we might win . If they dont score , We will win '' Willis White
im talking to
LJP who else ? If I were speaking to you I would be sure to let you know , trust me
'' If we score , we might win . If they dont score , We will win '' Willis White
O Let Me Get this One!!!
It’s simple and plain LJP that you don’t get the big picture at all. Sure Matt Ryan and Mark Sanchez had their good seasons with the help of a supporting cast, but please believe me those guys were’nt drafted as top picks to be game managers. The falcons and the jets will soon hand the keys over to their future QB’s, meaning sooner or later Matt Ryan and Mark Sanchez will be asked to win games for their franchises. Sure the Jets went far into the playoffs this season, but did they go to the Super Bowl? NO!! Why? Because they didnt have a QB to get them over the hump. But they are comfortable with that because Sanchez will one day get them over it. Perfect example, look at last years Vikings, they had a dominant defense, strong o-line, and one of the best rb’s in the league but they were’nt nearly as successful as they were this year. Why? They had a QB in Brett Favre. I mean it’s not a coincidence that the Super Bowl hosted the best 2 QB’s in the league.
by mr.snyderhireme on Feb 9, 2010 12:05 AM EST reply actions
Mr. Snyder
The reason the Vikings lost, was because they got away from their run game and turned “the keys over” to Brett Favre. Who, in turn, LOST the game for them.
I bet they would take a “manger” now…
a manger?
maybe to lay little baby jesus farve down in?
Lol, my fault
Ironically, some treat Favre like he is the next coming. Good catch though.
Cash,
Thats completely redicilous. The Viks wouldn’t have been where they were if not for Favre’s vertical passing style. They were 1 penality away from winning that game.
Till, he threw a pick late in the fourth quarter, just being "Brett Favre".
That team was building and a contender before he got there. Sure, he won some games for them. But if you look at those games and compare the run vs. pass ratio, it’s clear that Childress fell in love with Favre and wanted to have his love child.
In the end, it cost them.
Actually
Favre took the team away from Childress by acting out on the sidelines. In the end, the only thing Chilly could say was, “I told you so.”
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Cash, I know the pick was terrible,
but he would have never been put in that situation if it wasn’t for that stupid penalty.
Apples and oranges.
It’s all in how you percieve Brett Favre I guess.
O Let me set you straight. When has Jason Campbell had a supporting cast like Sanchez or Matt Ryan ??? (never)
LOL you guys are toooooo eazzzzzzzzzy !!! (s)
I would argue.....
ever since he has been here…….with the exception of running back. The separation between these teams….all teams in the NFL is minimal….in my opinion. That’s how a Cardinals, Saints, Falcons, Ravens, etc come out of no where to compete. You are literally talking about 3 players being the difference between players making a difference. The rest is all about scheme and coaching! It is very arguable that we have the playmakers on this team. It’s about getting them in position to make those plays. Understanding you players and their strengths…..and putting them where they need to be…..to benefit the team. That’s what we have lacked. You bash Moss……he hasn’t been put into the position to make plays like when Gibbs was here. You say DT is a #1…..that’s arguable either way…..but maybe him, MK, and MM have not been put in position to show what they can really do. Anthony Alridge…..maybe he is the game breaking RB we need….and already have. Our line is the sour spot…..and depending on our defense this year…..I see FS as the glaring weakness! We have a solid FS…..we don’t lose those games on double moves. We have a line that can carry a running game and give our QB 3 seconds before he even has to worry about pressure….we are set. We don’t need Cribbs and all these other players you tout. Campbell is a solid starter….you know what you got……he can surprise you time to time. He, however, is never going to be a HOF QB. He is not a franchise QB, and prolly will never be. He is destined to be the Skins McNabb……with controversy over job security the entire time he is in Washington. That’s just the way it is!
I agree with that.
Coaching staffs also, when they do have a playmaker, design their schemes to get that player into position to produce. If not a playmaker, then the staff fits him into their scheme.
shvd, The three players that you are talking about are normally gamechangers/playmakers. We have only one player that can break tackles and out run most players, and that is Devin Thomas
I agree Laron Landry at FS cost us several games by missing tackles or bad coverage. It does not matter if the cast is on the team but not supporting him. By the way Santana was thrown al types of short passes but he can no longer make the first man miss. We all no he has never been able to break tackles. Why do you think we started throwing the short passes to Devin and not Santana. Because Devin is a better at running after the catch then Santana is now . You will see just how good a qb Jason is when he has some help. By the way Mcnabb has spent years carrying tthe Eagles on his back. They should be looking at finding a new coach if anything, or at least a OC that understands the importance of a running game to set up the pass.
here we go again
When did this catching changeover take place exactly? Devin only had a couple of good games and they were weeks apart, only one better than Moss… When did he start doing this? I must have missed it..
"When the rich wage WAR its the POOR that die!!!"
I gotta agree with you on this one.
I like Devin, but he’s not ready to be a #1 target. Can you really see him listed on scouting reports and game schemes???
I don’t think so. Now Moss on the other hand, has a ton of highlights that put fear into other team’s secondary.
Maybe they threw short to DT.....
bc Santana was double covered?!?!?!?! Devin is not the only game changer….Cooley can break tackles and get extra yards….he just doesn’t brake a game with speed…..Fred Davis has the potential to be a very special TE…..a game changer…….anybody on the team who has the desire to step up and be a man….can be a game changer. There is no prototypical mold for a game changer. A pulling LG can be a game changer……a hard tackling safety is a game changer….a QB who puts the ball on the spot to keep his receiver full stride….is a game changer. It’s time for you….to stop with the excuses of why we don’t win…..and realize we have players. We have damn good players…..you don’t get into the NFL without being one. We have no fucking identity……..we don’t have that one player who is the face of the franchise and sets a tone. We don’t have that killer on defense that smacks your mouth like Ray Lewis…to set a tone. We don’t have that QB on offense that smiles during the game to tell everyone they are having a good time and they can do this. We don’t have a running back who can keep his fucking mouth shut in the media about his team so everyone can concentrate on the task at hand! We have no real identity….and the one we have is a joke…….which has in turn made our team…on and off the field….a joke! Fuck your sissy game changers……we need a player to give us and identity! I be damned if I want the face of our franchise to be a return specialist…..or a third down change of pace back! As far as McNabb….fuck McNabb….I used his name only to reference the inevitable level of success JC will ever have here………there will always be questions about his job security…..always!
THANKYOU
Again, arguments on one side do not match with arguments on the other.
The Redskins NEED
Front office-Check
Coach-Check
OL-?
RB-?
LB-?
DL-?
The team does not need game changers, WR, TE, S, CB or a QB and they do not need to add any high priced player looking to get paid but not looking to play.
Ok, jokes over.. Where is that asshole SHVD at.
You are not him. This man has never said anything that I have agreed to… Also, they threw short because any play that was longer than 2 seconds in development was thrown out… so your fast break man is not getting the fast breaks. PLus fast break man draws safties which frees up number 2 man….
"When the rich wage WAR its the POOR that die!!!"
this is an argument I have made in defence of JC many times
but then I realised, a lot of the reason these guys are the least sacked, is that they diagnose blitzes, come to the line, assign protections, call audibles where neccesary and generally run the O-Line and their protection packages live and in game
JC does not do this, he just comes up, takes the snap and trys to throw the ball, this is an area that even the most ardent Campbell supporter (and I count myself as a cautious supporter of his) have to ackowledge that JC needs to work on
Pommylee
That is true, JC definitely has to work on that.
But I don’t think thats what caused the majority of the sacks. But I don’t know off the top of my head. I’d have to watch all the games over again to determine that and that would be too painful to do lol. But yes he does need to work on this. As far as the audibles go, Zorn admitted to not allowing Campbell to call audibles so I don’t put that on him.
cos Zorn was such a playcalling genius??
or because the plays he diagnosed were of such perfection that they could beat any defensive scheme in his own mind??
hip hip hooray
Pommylee
I have to say this.
Jason Campbell can do well in a heavy run based offence (quite like Sanchez’s). When the run game goes well he throws well.
Look back at the 08 season. No picks for the first 6 or 7 games and we were 6 of 8. Then, Portis’ wheels fell off and the preasure fell on his shoulders. Go figure, we only won 2 of the last 8. Campbell is an average QB at best. His role should be as much as Sanchez’s was this year. 70% Run, 20% play action, 10% pass
To have Campbell be successful we need:
A good Line
Have a 1a and 1b RB combo…
Read my words carefully. I am not say to get rid of him. I am saying that he would be better than any of the rookies this draft will have to offer. None of them in my opinion have what it takes to make it in the NFL as a strong starter. Having 2 – 3 good RBs rotating to take the preasure off Campbell. With this he will do well when he needs to make those big pass plays. This will also give him the confidence to become a good QB.
"When the rich wage WAR its the POOR that die!!!"
I know that hurt like hell to say milc
I’m proud of you.
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
Sometimes the truth does.
I give him one last year to succeed. After that he is more than likely done.
"When the rich wage WAR its the POOR that die!!!"
Another thing people...
Stop arguing with LJP. He starts these posts every month or so to get a rise out of people. I will admit that I have gotten myself into a few tussles with a few on this site over my feelings about Campbells competence as a starting QB. The more we disagree with him the more he does this. This post will more than likely pass the 100 responce line and that is all he wants.
Just remember that when you throw something at him make sure its fact and not just opinion. Facts always shut him down and with JC17 there is pleanty to THROW at him (hahaha slapping knee)
"When the rich wage WAR its the POOR that die!!!"
by milcmann on Feb 9, 2010 7:49 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Milc, You are the true definition of a hater. How can you tell grown people what to do? When did you become HH room monitor
Hey, buddy maybe if you come up with some more interesting fan posts, you will get more responses. Maybe you have not noticed, but LJP is a pretty polarizing guy. Guess what this leads to good discussions/ arguements. Look at my posts sometimes the same person that is calling me a dumb azz on one fan post, is agreeing with me on another fan post. Then you have the handful of people that just hate "LJP’. I could say the weather was bad in the North East and they would tell me I was wrong. Then they would explain to me how 2 feet worth of snow is not really alot of snow. Next they would ask me for proof of my opinion and to show them some stats. I could go along with the rest of the vocal minority/ majority. (But I don’t)
By the way If you try coming up with some original thoughts sometimes it would help drive your responses up. But hey what do I know, I am just little ole (d) " LJP". LOL ( 2 butt slaps and a three stoogies eye poke to you for hating)
Hater? thats funny.
For one thing, every post I have made on here has been in the high numbers. Second im not posting on here to see how high the response count gets. I start post to either vent or to start a health discussion.
My point about THIS post is that it is the same post you make every month. You just find another way to drag people into your argument that JC17 is some dynamic QB. He is NOT even close to being a QB that can push THIS team over the top. At the end of the day, if this team becomes successfull it will not be for Campbell’s arm but by the feet of running backs behind him. He will never make a Super Bowl with the Glory lights cast upon him. He will never make the Hall of Fame because of his impact at his position. He will never be a franchise QB. He is a strong number two at best.
We are not talking about snow levels from one persons perspective to another. Silly analogy. You only talk about JC17. Its always your a hater, your a hater, your a hater. Dude if over half the site is thinking that he needs to go and you find yourself a minority in his defense maybe you could possibly be wrong in your opinion. Instead you want chastise and bash people as being anti Campbell. Guess what buddy. Im not gonna sit here and allow you compare apple to oranges and call it a valid argument. You cannot give a good reason for why you think this man is a top 10 QB…
Until I am proven wrong, I guess im still a HATER! (on the grassy knoll with a sniper rifle)
"When the rich wage WAR its the POOR that die!!!"
milc, I must have missed this over half the site thing. The overwhelming majority of people think Jason is our best bet.
You are in the minority on that one. LOL By the way you mentioned my responses first not me. Milc, All of your posts have not been in the high numbers . That is BS go back and look again, I did. You are one of those people that say the same BS over and over until they start believing it themselves.
by LETJASONPASS on Feb 9, 2010 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Really? Lets put it to a test.
Lets see what people think about YOUR BFF.
We shall see
"When the rich wage WAR its the POOR that die!!!"
ok your right only some of my blogs have been big!
That just goes to show you which of us really cares about the count. I didnt know my count and you researched it…. huh…
"When the rich wage WAR its the POOR that die!!!"
LJP is there any chance
we could get you to switch over to being a Cowboys fan or something? You’re killin’ me man.
Maybe you have not noticed, but LJP is a pretty polarizing guy
You seriously just referred to yourself in the third-person via a self-given abbreviated nickname on a blog, calling yourself a ‘pretty polarizing guy’ based solely on the number of people who comment on your posts, the vast majority of which are telling you they hope your computer somehow breaks and/or your internet provider manages to keep you off of this otherwise fine Redskins site.
You’re like the best finger painter in kindergarten dude, we’re not impressed.
That's not enough DoWork.....
I called his posts the equivalent to 30lb newborn baby with a cock and vagina! He didn’t miss a beat. Just fueling the fire…..he is an ass-clown! You would think they wouldn’t allow mental patients on the computer so long during the day……but guess I was wrong!
oh wait nevermind theres SHVD...Found him.. hes back
"When the rich wage WAR its the POOR that die!!!"
DoWork, You don't get it do you? People read my fan posts because they are usually interesting one way or the other. As far as I know football is a entertainment sport. So what is wrong with a little entertainment on HH.
If you love “LJP” or hate him you must admit that he is entertaining. LOL Hey, DoWork don’t hate just try the third-person thing sometimes yourself buddy.
By the way I think Scott E. starting calling me “LJP” first. Hey, but since you are new to the party I (oops) “LJP” will let that one slide . (2 headbutts,a butt slap, and a Albert Haynesworth face stomp 2 you) LOL
2 things
1… Haynesworth would have to be standing to face stomp someone… Not sitting and sucking oxygen.
2… I dont think people respond to any board on here because of the poster. its the subject and most read them as they post. Others read to see all the different sillyarguments you create in each of them.
"When the rich wage WAR its the POOR that die!!!"
He is NOT even close to being a QB that can push THIS team over the top
Over 75%, go ahead do the poll…I’ve been here long enought I know the answer.
think Jason is average and as an average QB a team can be built around him. If we are lucky Jason can be the QB of a superbowl team in the nest 1 or 2 years, just like a Trent Dilfer. Jason will never be anything more than Average.
Yes next year he is as good as anyone else, but what about 2 years or 3 years, a lot of stars have align for the Redskins to even get close to a Superbowl with Jason as a QB, a Franchise QB similar to a qualified coach (see NO saints) can make magic happen without everything being in place…and perfect
I thought the onside kick and the INT were the game changers in the Super Bowl.
The colts compiled more offense then the Saints. Two plays changed that game plus 3 good kicks by their kicker.
"When the rich wage WAR its the POOR that die!!!"
this is true for all skill positions
if the team has no foundation, which is the OL and DL, then it deosn’t matter if you have good players in the ‘skill’ position. Personally I hate the term “Skill Positions” at it implies that playing OL or DL doesn’t take skill – what a load of rubbish.
It doesn’t take much effort to think of great skill players who languished on bad teams and never won a Super Bowl. barry Sanders always tops that list for me but there are many others.
Yes this is true, every position is a skill position.
I think that everyone agrees that to be a winning team, you have to have a decent or better line. My point about ‘skill players’ is that most NFL players are relatively equal in talent. There are great players and there are not good players, but for the majority of NFL players; there is very little difference. Coaching and playmakers ARE the big difference in winning.
A stud lineman who Dominates is a Playmaker. Any one who can dominate at his position is a playmaker, offense and defense.
The Skins did not have NFL quality linemen last year. If they even had average linemen, they would have been better. A bigger problem was that they didn’t have good coaching either.
A good to very good lineman can be coached up to pro-bowl caliber with technique and scheme. I love linemen, and wish we had the best linemen in all of football. The problem is when there are limited resources, draft picks, the bulk of those resources should be used in acquiring playmakers. Playmakers can change games by themselves while the mid round picks and FA $ can be used on shoring up the O-line and other weaknesses, and rely on coaching and O-schemes.
Shanahan says
Shanahan says: “You have to have players up front. I don’t care if it’s the offensive line, the defensive line; you win with those guys up front. That will always be an emphasis. You can’t find teams that are successful without them.”
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/35226611/ns/sports-nfl/?pg=37#spt_NFL_team_needs_2010
by aFan4Life on Feb 9, 2010 8:26 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Changes
There is no doubt that the offensive line has to be dramatically improved, and no one on HH has ever disputed that. What I don’t understand is the people who want to get rid of our best players – Portis, Moss and Haynesworth – and keep the mediocre one – Campbell. Nobody on HH even thinks he is “good”, only that he is probably the best one available for next year (assuming that any rookie QB would have a learning curve). So we pass on a “quarterback for the future” in order to maybe do a little better this year. And this year is probably going to be a rebuilding year, with us unlikely to win more than 8 games (it’s a brutal schedule, being paired against two of the toughest divisions).
I don't know where you keep getting these thoughts from that everyone is down on JC.
There are plenty on here who are strong JC supporters. I’m thinking your not exactly paying full attention to other posts but mainly focusing on your own opinion. But on another note, I don’t understand the thinking of those who want to get rid of Moss, Haynesworth, and Cooley either. But hey everyone is entitled to their own opinions. The choice isn’t up to any of us anyway lol.
i love campbell
a lot he is my man crush i do not mind u beat me last year that is sports campbell for orton maybe
okay i have cereal palsy arhrtis and chronic fatiue as well i have a grea life loveing folks some days are better that other days i got a make a wish in 2001 saw my favorive team the broncos was the trip of the lifetime i wish everyone couild gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that ok but i bleed organ and bule reseident broncos fan for ap lol denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos fan for stanpleid bule
You guys could have had....
Campbell instead of Orton. You turned it down in the Cutler trade because McDonalds, McDaniels, thought Orton was better!!!
i know
made me sick we could had that guy from texas u got too
okay i have cereal palsy arhrtis and chronic fatiue as well i have a grea life loveing folks some days are better that other days i got a make a wish in 2001 saw my favorive team the broncos was the trip of the lifetime i wish everyone couild gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that ok but i bleed organ and bule reseident broncos fan for ap lol denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos fan for stanpleid bule
Orakpo.....
can’t have him……he is already a fan favorite. Everything else is pretty much up for grabs! haha
what about d thomas
f davis i like those guys a lot
okay i have cereal palsy arhrtis and chronic fatiue as well i have a grea life loveing folks some days are better that other days i got a make a wish in 2001 saw my favorive team the broncos was the trip of the lifetime i wish everyone couild gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that ok but i bleed organ and bule reseident broncos fan for ap lol denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos fan for stanpleid bule
You think this is how real trade negotiations are like this?
That would be hilarious……we go around thinking these FO guys are geniuses…..and they are just at a computer throwing names around until something sticks!
As a heads up.....
I hope you don’t get offended….but I re-wrote your bio in another thread…..I did it to be nice. You don’t have to use it but thought it would give people a better understanding of what you are dealing with by getting the grammar right! Hope it doesn’t offend and I don’t care whether you use it or not. I can see both sides!
i was not offended
i copyed it
okay i have cerebral palsy arthris and chronic fatigue as well i have a great life and loveing folks some days are better than other days i got a make-a-wish in 2001 and saw my favorite team the broncos it was the trip of a lifetime i wish everyone couild have gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that okay but i bleed organ and bule for my mnr fans but i bleed orange and blue denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos for stampede bule thanks shvd98z24
It's still wrong but....
it’s you dude. Much respect for what you are dealing with. Good luck to you and your Broncos this next season. You have to like what you have going. What expectations do you guys have for this offseason? What are you expecting out of the draft and FA and what expectations do you guys have of your team next year?
turthed
my hope is to go to the super bowl that first but if we cant do that i want to beat KC AND OAK 2 times but den is a 8-8- team right now den needs are C/G BIGGER de 1 more pass rusher young CB/S a punter a backup qb in the draft we want a ilb and a g we have to draft better i exept 9-10 wins next year and u and your redskins buddys are welome on mhr anytime
okay i have cerebral palsy arthris and chronic fatigue as well i have a great life and loveing folks some days are better than other days i got a make-a-wish in 2001 and saw my favorite team the broncos it was the trip of a lifetime i wish everyone couild have gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that okay but i bleed organ and bule for my mnr fans but i bleed orange and blue denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos for stampede bule thanks shvd98z24
or den 2 or 3 r pick
okay i have cereal palsy arhrtis and chronic fatiue as well i have a grea life loveing folks some days are better that other days i got a make a wish in 2001 saw my favorive team the broncos was the trip of the lifetime i wish everyone couild gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that ok but i bleed organ and bule reseident broncos fan for ap lol denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos fan for stanpleid bule
LJP, I have to say that IMO this is probably the best post of yours that I have read lol
There may be an occasional rookie that comes in and lights it up right away, but most of the time a successful rookie QB already has most other “need” areas established when they come in. As you stated with Sanchez, that running game and the defense. Now lets see how he does next season. Rookie QB’s have to transition to the NFL and go through their rookie mistakes.
Some VETs make rookie mistakes every seson.
For some reason they keep getting thrown excuses… the line was not good, the #1 WR “has lost a step” and so on and so forth. I dont think he should go this season but he is deff not the future of this team..
"When the rich wage WAR its the POOR that die!!!"
Mistakes are bound to happen. No one is perfect.
And come on man, our line was TERRIBLE!!!!! Moss has lost a step but not really a big one, he is still an elite receiver. I still think JC should get maybe 2-3 more years to develop under a real offensive minded HC. Shanahan will help to bring out the best in him. And if he still sucks butt under Shanahan then away with him.
How do you figure he has lost a step?
You cannot argue that our line sucked so the QB had no time then say Moss has lost a step. Why is everyone else to blame because Campbell isnt accurate. I agree that we should keep him a little longer but to say that our best WR needs to leave cause he didnt make Campbell look better is just silly…
"When the rich wage WAR its the POOR that die!!!"
mlc, Did he not get ran down by a linebacker? Now he is has lost some of that speed which makes him alot less useful. Take a look at Desean Jackson, he is blazing fast. When his speed drops off
he will be useless. Is he big, strong or tough enough to be a possesion receiver? (no) The samething is happening to Santana right now. We should trade him before he is exsposed.
by LETJASONPASS on Feb 12, 2010 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
sorry Milc
but when Moss got chased down from behind by Keith Brooking of all people a part of me died inside.
That just does not happen to our Moss. Maybe to the Giants’, but not ours.
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
Because milc he obviously has
I’m not blaming Moss for anything because our whole offense sucked because of the line, but if you dont think Moss has lost a little something then I’m not sure about how many games you have watched. But I still said he is an elite receiver. Maybe he was hurt most of the season, who knows. But I am not one of the people who are pulling for Moss to be traded so I’m not sure where that came from.
so when Moss got chased down for this one particular play, Was he injured? Did he slip? Did he lose speed to catch a ball and an already running at full speed Brooking catch him?
For one thing Brooking is fast. He is known for his speed at Line backing. You guys talk like a nose tackle grabbed him from being 10 yards away. You cannot tell me that you wanna cut someone for one play. If we are judging someone by a play here or a play there, then Campbell needs to be taken down to the decks and be deported out of the country… But noooooo you guys think that he has not been given a fair chance. He has not had the right coaching to build him uuuup… Its a croc. I dont think that you guys have any clue as to what you are saying.
How is it that every time Campbell gets taken out for one reason or another and Old man wrigley Collins comes out he can always hit Campbell on a streak down the right side and get us into scoring position. When ever this team gets a big play that builds the team and fans moral in a game it is more than likely this play that gets it. Deep streak to Moss (with separation).
"When the rich wage WAR its the POOR that die!!!"
I don't remember if he was hurt or not
I’m not sure who you were directing the post to but Ill respond first. First I’d like to say just like I did in the previous post, I want Santana to stay. He has been one of my favorites a while now. But he is getting older and he has lost a step. Not dramatically but he has, you could even see his frustration in some of the games. For example. I think it was the first Giants game. He was frustrated because he couldn’t get separated from Corey Webster and they ended up fighting. Thats just one example but its not the only time something of that sort has happened. But he is still currently our best receiver and we need him until Kelly, Thomas, and Mitchell begin to light it up.
He was talking to me I believe
1) I have NEVER been in the camp to trade Moss first of all. You can go all around, up, and down this blog and look at every little thing I’ve said. But you damn sure won’t find that ANYWHERE!
2) Every time “Old man wrigley Collins” comes out, he hits Moss on the deep out, ONCE. Why? After playing a whole game and this damn team hasn’t thrown the deep ball, whether it be incompletions on the QB’s part or the WR dropping balls, to the shitty ass o-line not being able to block a sneeze, DB’s don’t play off of Moss. So in comes old man Collins, they call the deep route to Santana finally and lo and behold, it’s a 46 yarder. What happens the next play? Collins ass gets planted.
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
If he has lost a step how could he get that pass Rekka?
I was not directing my last at any of ya’ll really.. Just responding to all..MOss was frustraited in the Giants game cause he was be held on almost every play. I still have that game on DVR. He was being held on every cut he tried to make.. Thats why he got into the fights… Its hard to get anywhere when Webster is pulling at a jersey or bumping after 5 yards.
"When the rich wage WAR its the POOR that die!!!"
I saw him get frustrated because he wasn't getting anywhere
I don’t have the game on DVR, so I wouldn’t be able to tell you whether or not he was getting held and/or getting interfered with the entire game so I’ll defer to you.
I think there’s a difference between pulling a double move, or throwing a receiver off to get seperation than outrunning people in the open field. For Moss to be as small as he is, he still does a pretty good job on DBs that don’t play bump and run on him at all times.
Also, he was being covered by Kevin Dockery, a nickleback. That’s a really good matchup, don’t you think?
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
When we played the Giants the second time
I dont think anyone on the team was playing that game.. It looked like everyone quit. Moss was getting hit or tugged on when he made a move. Campbell didnt have enough time in the back field to wait. If the WR fell off his route or wasnt on time in his route it was a SACK or THROWN AWAY
"When the rich wage WAR its the POOR that die!!!"
Moss is the 24th best Wr in the league over the last 2 years.
I would call top 10 elite, but not 24. Moss is a very good receiver who can still be a #1 on a team, but he is not elite.
he couldnt make top 10 the past 2 years
The QB needs to be able to trow the ball from his feet not his back…. Plus this past year they took all of the long plays out of the playbook…
"When the rich wage WAR its the POOR that die!!!"
O let Me At It Again!!!
First of all, J. Cash, what are talking about Favre was the reason the Vikings made it as far as they did and if you had seen the playoff game against the Saints, then you would know the Vikings lost that game more than the Saints won it. And how can you say Favre lost the game yea he threw a pick, but peterson fumbled like 4 times as well as everyone else on the offense. But that’s beside the point, the point is no matter how good your team is all-around you can’t get over that hump without a heck of a qb. And of course once in a blue moon a team with a serviceable QB wins a championship but it rarely happens and it does’nt turn a franchise into a dynasty. Bottom line: Its nothing you or LJP can say to make me see it any other way, You live and you die by the QB. As far as JC, i like him and hopes he succeeds but I can’t say that I think he’s a good QB at all. The attitude doesn’t seem to be there and neither does he seem to be learning. Blame it on the o-line if you want to but we could have the starting left tackle from the saints and he won’t be nearly as serviceable playing with us. I’ve heard enough excuses about why JC haven’t got it all together yet and I’m tired of it. Okay he doesn’t have an all-pro line like the Jets, this is the Washington Redskins so get over it. It’s either you got it or you don’t
by mr.snyderhireme on Feb 10, 2010 12:09 AM EST reply actions
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