Jimmy Clausen Pro/Cons from Southbend Campus; Great Athlete but Not a Leader
by Kevin Ewoldt on Feb 24, 2010 10:45 AM EST
in Redskins Analysis
132 comments
It's well-known by now that Mel Kiper has Jimmy Clausen going to the Redskins with the #4 pick:
Kiper said he's spoken with Clausen's former teammates, opponents, coaches and everyone raves about Clausen: "I think he has a chance to be great. His accuracy is outstanding. His leadership is exceptional."
Huh? I really question Mel Kiper's sources only because my cousin is an undergrad at Notre Dame and knows several of the football players. In regards to Clausen's leadership, his Irish teammates say the exact opposite. I had my cousin email some stories and here's Clausen's teammates' responses...both pros and cons:
Pros:
First of all, he didn't bitch unless he noticed someone not hustling (something that he really didn't like), he was a team guy. People don't think he is out there for stats, he apparently loves football and has a huge desire to win.He is very passionate about the sport, he is dedicated to being the best he can be, he is a competitor and will do anything to win, he hangs out with the football players, he is maturing very well.
Cons:
Just about everyone pointed to the fact that he is not a natural leader. They refused to give particular examples but just about everyone respects him. One player said, "If the Redskins are looking for a great leader, someone to bring the locker room together, and ignite a new desire to win, look elsewhere. But his football ability is unquestionable."
Clausen has this larger than life mentality. Word is that he showed up to campus his freshman year wearing a crown, but that might be a little irrelevant because then he was just a 19 year old kid. He has a very pompous attitude and is no fun to talk to, but then again I am not on the football team. He was punched in the face outside a bar following the UCONN game which we lost. Some people there said that he instigated it, but I don't know for sure. People around campus don't like him. Girls think he is ugly, guys think he is a cocky prick.
He tries to be the team leader but lacks natural skills. He apparently puts forth the effort. The team appreciates this and trusts his abilities on the field. [One teammate] said going in [when he first joined the team], he thought Clausen was going to be a prick. It turns out that he does not fit the profile others believe him to have. He is a little immature and likes to have fun but never takes it too far. And again it was noted that he is maturing.
If you're hated by everyone on campus, that view is certainly going to be shared by some teammates. Shouldn't the starting QB of a D1 school be loved by everyone? Girls crying for attention and guys begging to do shots with him? It appears it's quite the opposite. It's said that his teammate, George West, had friends in town and one of them punched Clausen in the face for running his mouth. I'll certainly defend Jimmy to a certain degree, though. Who's mature their first two years of college (especially after being on ESPN multiple times as a Senior in High School)?
If Clausen were to come to DC, Shanahan certainly has experience guiding a QB with poor leadership skills (Jay Cutler). I can't imagine ANY first round draft pick coming into Redskins Park with an ego and getting away with it. Haynesworth would step on his head. Cooley would tell him to shut the F up. Any of the U guys would certainly put him in his place...
So, what does this all mean? I think it means that the interviews with Clausen take a whole new light. Really drill down and ask the hard questions why his teammates feel this way.
Kiper continued his evaluation of Clausen, which fits with what the rest of the ND team feels:
Mel Kiper: People keep questioning his size and I don't understand why. What's wrong with 6-2.5, 220. That's ideal size. In addition to that, his arm strength is above average. Some have said he's maxed out physically. I don't understand that. His arm strength will improve once he gets to the NFL. That's been proven. He's tough. He played with the flu and the toe injury. He played with a team that didn't have a great supporting cast. The defense was awful. He had four games where he won on the final drive.
Is the "leadership" value over-rated? The Redskins offense certainly is lacking one. Jason Campbell is respected and loved on the team, but he doesn't embody that fiery attitude you see in Super Bowl QBs like Ben Roethlisberger, Drew Brees, or Peyton Manning. I would think any team that uses a top 5 pick on a QB should get that.
Update 12:45PM: I've moved this image to the end of the post since it's not meant to be the article topic. I originally put it at the top since it was an image that was unique (ie - not a common google images one).
0 recs |
132 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
His taste in women, however,
is indisputable…If those are the Choices at ND, no wonder Brady Quinn became the poster boy for Gay Men.
Seriously, anyone who thinks this guy is really a top 10 draft pick is ridiculously stupid or on the dole in a huge way. I’ll leave it up to other posters to decide which. Also, the only one who has gone on record to say that this guy is 6’2" is Kuiper. He’s listed shorter everywhere else as far as I know.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
PS - Kevin
Can we get the anti-dote now; you know, the picture of Giselle? I’d be a lot happier.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
That picture
No I REALLY question his decision-making ability…
by Hustler of Culture on Feb 24, 2010 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
I got some info on the picture
That’s the girls at Southbend…always has been. I’ve visited ND 3x before…it ain’t SEC.
"I am excited about starting 2009. We are looking forward to an outstanding year. We're on our way. We have a lot of healthy players this year." - Vinny Cerrato
by Kevin Ewoldt on Feb 24, 2010 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
No wonder Notre Dame has fallen off
it has to be almost impossible to recruit football players to come to a school with girls like those.
Apparently,
they tried the U of Colorado method just after Lou Holtz left. The rest is history.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
He’s listed at 6’ 3" universally.
Also, what’s the deal with the 2nd con quote? You said it was from the players and that one specifically states it’s not. That one comes off as conjecture and jealousy to me. Something anyone could have written from afar.
I think that has always been the rumor about ND women though. ouch.
what everyone forgets is
we dont just have a strong>second round pick we have the 36th pick that is almost a 1st rd pick, and most people think there is a good chance Clausen will drop to the 2nd Rd or at least very late in the 1st, whereas there is no chance that Okung will
So why not take Okung with the 4th and then if we want Clausen trade our 36th pick and our 4th rounder to move up into the 1st Rd (possibly the Patriots pick) and take Clausen then, or possibly trade Jason and a 5th rounder to move up to the late 20’s although when you look at the teams that are in the last 12 picks of the 1st Rd its hard to see anyone who will go QB, so you know that if Clausen or Bradford is not picked up by about pick 12 then they will drop to us anyway more than likely, or we may need to do the above trade to jump above St Louis 2nd rd pick (ie late into the 1st rd)
for the record I am not saying I want Clausen, I am just saying if the team does, why overpay for him at 4
Pommylee
Please Pommylee
Don’t give them any ideas. The notion that we pick a QB in this draft is seriously stupid. Not disparaging you, just the thought process that includes new QB this year.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
I would like to draw the Honourable gentleman from (Virginia's??) attention to my final point
for the record I am not saying I want Clausen
Pommylee
Yes, I saw that
from waaaay over here in Maryland. I was just commenting on the discussion that preceded it.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
fair enough
Are you anywhere near Baltimore, ever since I saw the Wire I am facinated by that City
Pommylee
Brady Quinn has had some pretty hot girls actually. Just sayin
Scientific research has proven that you lose exactly 5.37 billion brain cells every time you listen to Todd McShay.
by TheRealSlimShady on Feb 25, 2010 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
the Vinny angle
Kiper and Vinny are bosom buddies. Maybe Vinny is giving his input on who he thinks the Redskins should take as sort of a “Hey Dan, pick this guy” kind of thing. It wouldn’t surprise me if Snyder would fall for this.
If there's any doubt
You can’t go QB at #4. Anytime there was serious debate about a guy coming out college and whether or not he was a true top 5, he has failed (Jamarcus, Smith, Leaf, Carr, Harrington). You got to go line if there is any question.
And I ran, I ran so far away... I ran all night and day
Couldn’t get away….
I think the thing is that there are no real top-5 QBs in this draft, but the draft analysis people can’t handle a top-5 with no QB so they are inserting these guys in there just so their worlds are a little more feng shui.
"Feng Shui"
Awesome – and so true. Ratings – TV that is – trumps realistic player ratings any day.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Freaking me out
Alright the pic is freaky. He looks like the monster in Young Frankenstein. I can hear the “Ugghhhhhhh.”
He's got A LOT to learn about being a star QB
There’s over 11,000 students on the ND campus. Let’s say 40% are female. That gives you roughly 4400 female students. And if South Bend is really as bad as everyone says, then for argument sake let’s pretend that 2% of the female population is hot.
God forbid you go to a school with only 90 hot girls, but if you’re the star QB, then you need to be hanging out with and doing photo ops with those 90 girls.
On the same note
Turning away pic opportunities just b/c a girl is less attractive is a dick move.
"I am excited about starting 2009. We are looking forward to an outstanding year. We're on our way. We have a lot of healthy players this year." - Vinny Cerrato
by Kevin Ewoldt on Feb 24, 2010 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
“Sorry girls, I only take pictures with girls who are 8’s or higher, just in case some pro-football bloggers are looking for reasons to hate me”
Tough to find a way to win with
the pro football fan crowd. A lot of people hate Brady for the opposite reason. Just sayin.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Could we refer to some other organ
whilst these pics are showing?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Clausen
On the girls – come on guys, they look fine compared to the girls at the U. of Chicago (all genius physics majors). He was just partying with them, not dating them. Anyway, I don’t see anything in the comments to suggest he’s not a great QB. He’s described as respected and larger than life, but not a rah rah type guy. No way he (or any other young college kid) could give pep talks to the Skins. But he could lead by performance, giving confidence that he knew what to do and how to win, and did win. When some teammates said he wasn’t a natural leader they probably were thinking of a certain kind of demonstrative, shouting type leader, whereas he seems to be quieter, leading by doing, like they used to say about Peyton Manning (“dour”, “stone face”). Because the fact is, he did lead, very well (The Irish lost because of one of the worst defenses in college history). I don’t know between Jimmy and Bradford, but some scouts say Clausen is more ready for the NFL because he ran Weis’ pro type offense, but that Bradford is potentially better. By the way, the teammate’s comments about Clausen seemed to express more confidence in him than Redskins players expressed about JC.
No wonder U of Chicago
doesn’t have a football team. The stuff about the girls is all jokin about. I would still take Bradford over Clausen ANY day. But the point is moot – there is no reason or WAY that we draft a QB with our 1st pick. If they do, them must be geniuses above and beyond all belief – IF it actually works out.
Guaranteed you will be crying for Jason within 45 seconds of Clausen stepping into the huddle.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Somehow I knew I would be corrected even as I blatantly stepped out on the limb...
So I recant in a disheveled pile of humility.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
he never won in college. case closed
by les boulez bomber on Feb 24, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
Are you saying
this is the type of picture you would expect from a loser? Perhaps….
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
I'll say it - I think Claussen will be a very very good NFL QB.
He’s spent three years under Charlie Weiss learning the Erhardt – Perkins offensive system. A very difficult system that he ran near perfect, throwing 28 TDs and only 4 INTs. (By the way, this system mimics the offense that Kyle Shanahan was running in Houston). He also did this while playing through his own injuries, and the long injury of one of his best WRs, Floyd. He shows strong presence in the pocket, a strong ability to read coverage at the line, great accuracy, and a willingness to place balls in single coverage where his WR has the best (and usually only) opportunity to catch the ball.
My opinion is that people questioning his cockiness are nitpicking to try and find a reason to hate him. A limo in highschool? Big deal, he’s 17 and declaring for college. You’d rather he shows up in his mom’s Taurus? Plus, when you’re on a Notre Dame campus of 11,000 and you’re the star of the team, you’re going to be cocky. And guys are going to be jealous of that stature, it’s just human nature.
I’m not saying the Redskins should draft him, because I am more than confident in Jason Campbell’s abilities and would love to see the luxury of a 4th overall pick spent elsewhere. If the Shanahans think he’s the best addition to the team, I’ll understand where their mentality is. FInding awkward photos should not take anything from him as an athlete, I have a few pictures of myself that I would rather have burned.
I agree with all this...
But, all D1 star QBs are cocky…heck, even the kickers are. But it’s odd that you’re downright disliked by every single student. Football is their big sport and they want to like you.
I agree tho..if the Shanahans do draft him, they would know more than me. I just wanted to call Mel Kiper out.
"I am excited about starting 2009. We are looking forward to an outstanding year. We're on our way. We have a lot of healthy players this year." - Vinny Cerrato
by Kevin Ewoldt on Feb 24, 2010 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
He’s disliked by every single student… according to one or two people.
I went to school with with Corey Perry (of NHL fame). He was the star of the London Knights and was pretty cocky, especially in and around the bars (where most people saw him). I use to call him a douche every time he rolled up to the bar expecting VIP treatment, but really, I would’ve done the exact same thing if I were him (or… Shaun Suisham…)
Agreed
The sweater vest with the top button undone is by far cooler! I’m assuming he’s wearing jean shorts or Zubaz out of pic. haha.
"I am excited about starting 2009. We are looking forward to an outstanding year. We're on our way. We have a lot of healthy players this year." - Vinny Cerrato
by Kevin Ewoldt on Feb 24, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
you're jealous
everyone loves Fedoras….especially K-Fed.
"I am excited about starting 2009. We are looking forward to an outstanding year. We're on our way. We have a lot of healthy players this year." - Vinny Cerrato
by Kevin Ewoldt on Feb 24, 2010 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
And I was just starting to post
that SSBlitz looks a lot like Clausen only waaaayyy smarter. Now he is just being clever. Ha!
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Ryan Gosling?
Half Nelson always touches my women…how I would love to be Half Nelson…touching my women…
good gracious
I’m glad I know that pic is there so I don’t have to see it anymore. ESPN reports the camera, after taking above picture was placed on IR.
Strength & Honor
by Shaman910 on Feb 24, 2010 1:01 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
holy shmokes
Those other pics weren’t there when I typed that…but you all know to which one I am referring…but at least the last pic allows this to end on a high note.
Strength & Honor
Clausen
SSblitz – excellent post – Clausen is a very promising QB. Those people using a few isolated quotes to show he is not popular or a leader are being unfair and a little dumb, because they are using irrelevant, anonymous and very questionable quotes on personality issues to judge how good a player he is. KevinE – also right – almost all star QBs are cocky, and probably generate a certain jealousy and hostility among students. As to the girls – I know everybody is kidding, but note that, to an extent, the picture suggests Clausen is a pretty nice guy, amiable, nice to everybody, which also bodes well in the NFL. Also note that nobody questioned his ability as a QB. As to size, he’s not a big tough guy like JC, but he is big enough (6-1 plus) to play QB in the NFL. Clausen and Bradford both seem to have the potential to be great, whereas (IMO) JC will never be much above average (poor field vision, no quick release, poor reading of defenses, poor understanding of the offense, poor accuracy on intermediate or long passes, questionable judgement, mediocre statistics throughout his career, never been a winner). All this doesn’t necessarily mean we shouldn’t keep him for another year – there might not be anybody who can step in and do better (granting any rookie won’t be great immediately), and we need our high draft choices for the O-line, but I would prefer to look to the future and draft a great young QB prospect.
can you ever make a point
without disparaging Campbell in SOME way???
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
Campbell
Right. But no worse than the JC lovers blasting anybody perceived as a threat to Jason (Bradford, Clausen, Cutler). There is an article in the Wash Post by Rick Maese and Jason Reid. Skins not saying what they will do on the draft. Article quotes Mike Mayock (NFL network): “If you believe there’s a franchise quarterback available at number four, that trumps all other needs, in my opinion.” Very succinct, assumes we don’t have a franchise QB now, but whether we draft a QB depends on whether we think the guy is a franchise QB. Everything depends on how Shanahan rates the QB possibilities, along with how dire the OT situation is. Mayock also thinks there are 6 or 7 OTs who are first round quality, and doesn’t know how many could fall to the second round (Skins at 37). There is also the possibility of getting more high picks by giving up JC or Carlos Rogers, letting us draft a QB (if deemed worthwhile) and loading up on the O-line. I have to admit there is a definite possibility that we could end up sticking with JC, at least for awhile. He’s OK, and could be the best QB for 2010.
I have no problem with you disliking JC
absolutely none at all. But
1) No one has blasted Claussen, everyone was making fun of him. This is a blog, making fun of others is what we do. See the post which has a pic of him limp wristed with the spiked-doo. He makes it easy.
2) The same we you’re not making up the holes in JC’s game, I highly doubt that the ass load of people that say he’s a dick/douche/immature are making something up JUST to slander him.
3) Kind of the same thing as 2 where I’m talking about you not making up the holes in JC’s game, but Bradford’s shoulder injury is not something that was made up it’s a concern because it’s happened TWICE. Notice NOOOOBODY brings up his game, because I for one can’t deny that he looks good, it’s his injury history that scares the shit out of me. And the NFL game is going to be a LOT tougher than what he saw in college with more games too.
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
Pretty sure
lots of people are scared of Bradford’s game as well. He played in a shotgun offense that relied on short, quick passes. I think he has questionable arm strength and a funky motion. He is very accurate on his short to medium throws though, but that was before the most recent injury.
Rekka, he can't even post a comment without JC bashing. Donnio is the "Poster Child" for JC Haters..
by LETJASONPASS on Feb 24, 2010 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
I don't mind the hating
it’s just that we weren’t even talking about the guy at the time and it came up again.
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
I keep wondering why Jake Locker gave up the huge rookie salary of a top 5 pick to return to Washington for his senior year.
The only thing I can think of is that he really didn’t want to play for the Rams. With a more conservative rookie wage scale in place, it will be more likely that a team will trade up into the top 5 to take a player of interest. When Locker comes out next year, the Skins could trade up to get him (unless it’s from 32, then we’re okay).
I went to U-M
I reserve the right to hate any and all Notre Dame players for whatever reason I can conjur. :)
But there is nothing about this kid that says to me he will make it as a pro. I don’t personally wish him ill, I just don’t see it.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
What is with the Locker love?
Why is he an auto no.1? Yes, he is the most athletic of these QB’s with a good arm but he hasn’t performed on the field near as well as any of these other guys and he has an injury history to boot. He will have another year to prove himself but as of now he’s basically an under the radar Tebow who hasn’t been picked apart yet.
Well
who hasn’t been picked apart yet.
this is certainly true. It is my contention that we could do no worse than draft a potential QB of the future next year whilst addressing all the other real issues we have. I don’t see anyone out there this year that isn’t a high to medium risk and someone like Locker – presuming he doesn’t continue to get injured – has just as good a shot at the top two guys this year.
Drafting a QB next year allows the team to transition and fill more holes. Losing Jason means going with an unproven commodity with high risk right away. It’s just not smart taken in its entirety.
Surely I’ve said something like this before, haven’t I?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
I do seem to recall
never been a winner
some very good seasons at Auburn. Someone probably has a link to a winning record in HS (I’m just guessing here) as it is hard to get noticed by the big programs unless you have some kind of winning profile.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Per redskins.com
Prepped at Taylorsville High School in Taylorsville, Mississippi; was a Parade All-American and Gatorade Player of the Year in Mississippi
Was a two-time All-State selection in football and district Most Valuable Player; selected to play in the Alabama-Mississippi All-Star game; also All-State in basketball
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
(IMO) You should poll these issues at the begining of a thread.
It’s time to see whether or not there is agreement or consensus on HH and take beyond your opinion, one way or another on each of the 8 points.
1. poor field vision,
2. no quick release,
3. poor reading of defenses,
4. poor understanding of the offense,
5. poor accuracy on intermediate or long passes,
6 questionable judgement,
7. mediocre statistics throughout his career,
8. never been a winner.
by Jefferson1935 on Feb 24, 2010 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
Clausen?
Maybe he didn’t even know they were women due to #1….? :)
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
This is coming from more than "one or two students"
When you’re an upper classman and involved with multiple sporting teams, you have a very good feel for college perception of a person. And my cuz talked to more than just one or two football players…a lot of them.
Either way, the dude is a great athlete, but a douche. I can’t name any star NFL QBs that are successful and a douche.
"I am excited about starting 2009. We are looking forward to an outstanding year. We're on our way. We have a lot of healthy players this year." - Vinny Cerrato
You think Eli's a douche?
he seems a little, I don’t know, squeamish to me but not a douche.
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
I always thought that....
any he certainly could be whiny if not at least a little douchey.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
True True
I do live for the, “Gosh, Wally. I can’t believe I threw that. Shucksy oh darn,” with a fist pump. But not a douche. Unless you go back to, “I don’t want to be a Charger. Daddddddd!”
Oh, you mean Eli
I thought you were emulating LJP. LOL!! Fist pump!! 1 corndog and 2 jelly rolls for me!!
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
And the Rams don`t need a QB.
I never did like Kiper anyway years ago he use to argue about the Colts on who they should draft. Look how they turned out by NOT listening to that douce. If Clausen is that good don`t you think the Rams would draft him. I don`t see any QB good enough to draft in the top 10 this year.
Hmm. I think the Rams DO need a QB
Bulger is fragile, mediocre, and getting worse with age
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Drafting a QB
I can’t see using our #4 draft pick on a QB if the QB situation is already set for the foreseeable future (that’s why I thought it was reasonable to discuss JC in the context of discussing QBs in the draft). If there’s some doubt, they could try to get a promising QB later in the draft – McCoy, Tebow, Pike, leFevour (sorry, can’t remember the spelling). I read that Tebow is working hard to change his throwing motion. Given the kind of guy he is, I wouldn’t bet against him.
Tebow is not a promising QB
in the NFL, he is gimmick QB at best
I shudder at the thought of him leading the Redskins offence for every snap 16 games a year
(and Oh it would only be 16 too, cos there is no playoffs with Cornerbacks just sitting and waiting for that big 2 second wind up before every throw and then getting pick after pick after pick)
Pommylee
JC lovers
I’m a little amused at the JC lovers like LJP. They (not you, Pommylee, or Tiller or Johnnydee) feel free to trash and dismiss other QBs on little information, and denigrate and trade for draft picks the Redskins’ greatest players (Portis, Moss, Rogers). But if anybody criticizes Jason Campbell, they are suddenly “JC haters”. Why can’t JC be rated? QB is usually considered the most important position, and JC has presided over two disastrous years. His career stats are very modest. Nobody has said he is a bad QB (and nobody “hates” him), only that he is average or a little below (I’ve called him mediocre in NFL terms), and think we can do better, especially in a 2-5 year time frame. But that’s not enough for the cult of JC lovers. They hysterically and viciously attack anybody who they think threatens their boy (remember Jay Cutler, who simply got himself out of a bad situation, and never said a word about Washington?). People ought to ignore the JC lovers, because they are not thinking rationally. The Post article today said that Shanahan and Allen are studying the current roster man by man, every play, in preparation for free agency and the draft. That sure sounds good, and suggests that they will make the right decisions.
personally
I think JC is slightly above average, and with a good line in front of him and a competent Head Coach I believe he a solid choice for QB moving forward.
Like you I get frustrated with the JC lovers (yes I am talking to you LJP) who refuse to accept any criticism at all about JC.
There is no doubt in my mind that the guy struggles diagnosing blitzes and making blocking assignment changes at the Line of Scrimmage, however we dont know how much of that was down to Zorn not allowing him to change plays.
Also I am concerned at JC’s lack of ability to engineer 4th quarter drives.
Still on balance I beleive that he is a solid choice and I will be happier if Shanahan keeps JC rather than wasting the 4th pick in the draft on someone with a suspect shoulder (Bradford) particuarly when picking him means we dont get the quality linemen we need to protect that Shoulder.
Also I beleive Clausen would be a waste with the 4th pick as I would be suprised if any other team takes him in the first round,
Now if we pick O-Line with the 4 pick and Clausen is still around at pick 36, then I can understand Shanahan choosing Clausen then, or even trading our 36th pick and a 4th rounder to jump into the bottom of the 1st Round and taking Clausen before St Lois have a chance to take him with the 33rd pick
Again I would prefer we didnt and just kept Campbell, and used that 32nd pick on a top 3 rated RG who would probably drop to that spot in the draft, but I will trust Shanahans judgement of what to do with the 36th pick.
Now you will see proof of your thesis though Donnio, as these very reserved statement of concern about JC’s weaknesses with lead to a full throated blast of abuse headed by way by the JC lovers who will demand I apologise for daring to suggest that maybe Campbell is not the second coming of Joe Montana or tje Jesus Christ of the Gridiron
Pommylee
Consider this a 3rd complimentary post
to Pommylee and Rekka. I only know of one poster who even uses consistently the love or hate words. I’m sure he’ll chime in soon enough.
My position, once more, is that I still believe Jason has upside with a good supporting cast – WR/TE are solid; running game may be back on track if CP does what he needs to do – so it comes down to the OLine and coaching to make our offense respectable – if not feared.
I believe we just don’t have the resources this year to fiddle with the QB situation beyond getting Colt up to speed to compete and maybe bringing in Orton as a backup to compete.
Love/hate has nothing to do with it. And, I’m also considerably aware of Jason’s weaknesses as mentioned above. I think all of them are improvable; although he will not likely ever be a Peyton Manning, we did win Super Bowls with Doug Williams and Mark Rypien — who I think Jason is on a comparable tier with given an OLine.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
by Scott E on Feb 25, 2010 8:57 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is the most accurate post on JC I have read in a long time.
IMO, of course.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Options
Good post and analysis, but, at least theoretically, there are some options beyond Colt (who should be given a chance to compete). Orton would cost a pretty high draft pick, which we can’t give. Grossman would be cheaper. We would get picks for JC, which could be used for QB or O-line. Could depend on what we could get for him. Even I wouldn’t give him up for less than a first rounder or maybe a 2nd rounder from a team with a high pick (like StL). He’s too valuable.
And
it could set our rebuilding back 4 or 5 years if we draft a QB at #4 and they don’t pan out. It’s a tremendous gamble considering the cost of signing a rookie QB at that high of a pick. Look how it has messed up the Raiders (I know they are messed up anyway, but the Russell situation is a mess beyond just typical Al Davis) and how the David Carr fiasco affected the Texans. Hell, as Skin’s fans we should know how high-dollar QBs can cost a team if the other pieces (Oline) aren’t in place already (Ramsey, Shuler, George).
That was pretty much the assessment
starting out in my post on how to draft a QB. It is fraught with risk even in a “good” year and the cost, money aside, could be 4-5 years as you said.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
not trashing anybody
I’d actually be on board with getting a later round pick at qb to groom, like lefevour or mccoy. I don’t want to draft either of the qb’s at 4, but if my arm was twisted I’d have to go with Bradford.
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
This is pointless generalization of a phantom army of fanatics
A vast majority of the time JC is discussed on this site the discussion involves pretty good analysis and debate.
Football discussion on most other outlets (ESPN, radio shows, etc) should be completely ignored.
I’m a little amused at the JC lovers like LJP. They (not you, Pommylee, or Tiller or Johnnydee) feel free to trash and dismiss other QBs on little information, and denigrate and trade for draft picks the Redskins’ greatest players (Portis, Moss, Rogers). But if anybody criticizes Jason Campbell, they are suddenly "JC haters". Why can’t JC be rated? QB is usually considered the most important position, and JC has presided over two disastrous years. His career stats are very modest. Nobody has said he is a bad QB (and nobody "hates" him), only that he is average or a little below (I’ve called him mediocre in NFL terms), and think we can do better, especially in a 2-5 year time frame. But that’s not enough for the cult of JC lovers. They hysterically and viciously attack anybody who they think threatens their boy (remember Jay Cutler, who simply got himself out of a bad situation, and never said a word about Washington?). People ought to ignore the JC lovers, because they are not thinking rationally. The Post article today said that Shanahan and Allen are studying the current roster man by man, every play, in preparation for free agency and the draft. That sure sounds good, and suggests that they will make the right decisions.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Phantom army of fanatics
You’re right, the ‘army’ is mainly LJP. He is almost the only one using the term “JC haters”. I started using the term “JC lovers” after he started throwing around “JC Haters”, because nobody “hates” JC, but based on the reaction to any negative analysis of JC, LJP thinks he is untouchable (i.e., could be said to “love” him). There is probably only one “JC Lover” (and “hysterical and vicious” is an exaggeration). Most on HH give very respectable and reasonable analysis of the Redskins, and I, for one, learn a lot. Compared to some of the Yahoo financial message boards, HH is very civil, which is about what I’d expect among Redskin fans.
That's when the ish really hits the fan
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
If we use our 1st round pick on a QB
I’m going to FedEx field and taking a shit in a sink.
1st round pick, Tebow
SkinsO – bound to help a lot. Pommylee – what’s wrong with Tebow? I thought his slow throwing motion (which he is working on) was the main knock. Otherwise, some said he doesn’t have a strong arm, and didn’t play under the center recently. I doubt that on the arm, and the other can be easily learned. He is big and tough, terrific runner and a workaholic, and a proven winner. Would you consider him if he dropped to the fourth round? He strikes me as the kind of guy that nobody messes with, and simply will not accept defeat – a bit like Rothlisberger or Peyton Manning. Clausen strikes me as more like Eli Manning.
Tebow
I watched a lot of Florida games this year (go figure they show more Florida games than Skins games in Australia) and to me he just did not look like an NFL QB, now I am no expert admittedly, but many of the concerns that I felt about him, were then backed up by the stuff I have read from people who do know what they are talking about.
I get concerned when people talk about someone at his age “going back to scratch to work on his throwing motion” it just sounds like after all them changes you dont know what you are going to get
Now if Tebow is there in the 4th round (which he wont be) but lets say he is, then you have to take him, but in my opinion, not as a QB, or not an every down QB anyway
I think using him as a Wildcat QB, mixed with some RB type duties, or even a kick returner, can you imagine him throwing 40 yard lateral passes on a Kick or Punt Return to a wide open Devin Thomas who can then streak down the opposite sideline, or coming in as a Wildcat RB and then doing his jump passes on 4th and goal or even 4th and short.
Plus in the games I saw his teammates were so superior to there opponents One on One that small mistakes were covered by Recievers being to big and strong for their opponents, or his Guards just smashing holes for him to run through, in the NFL he wont have those advantages, thats why we would in my opinion be crazy to take him in the 2n Round
Pommylee
Tebow, JC
Thanks (I have not seen him). Virtually everybody on HH seems to agree that he isn’t any better than a 4th rounder, and that because of his running. On JC – can’t really disagree with anything you said. Fact is, it’s a tough decision, because it is hard to tell just how good JC is. Were his problems due to him, or the O-line, or Zorn and Zorn’s “system”, or the receivers, or (most likely) some combination of factors? I’m glad to hear that Shanahan and Allen are looking at game films – actual plays. That might answer just how well JC did – like how many open receivers he missed, or threw to the wrong guy, etc. Then they meld that with what they want the QB to do, then they can decide whether to go after a QB. Sounds pretty easy. Not!
I think Tebow is a third rounder
i Just htink the reason this site rates him as a 4th rounder is that we dont have a 3rd round pick so we have wishful thinking taking over, pushing him to the 4th rd where we then have a decision to make
Purely for Financial Reasons if nothing else, I think Jacksonville will take Tebow in the 2nd Round if no one else does, the hometown kid will be responsible for an extra 10,000 seats filled a game for a team that was blacked out all of last season and had whole sections of the stands empty
Pommylee
Totally Agree
Jacksonville can’t afford not to take him. I would also agree on the 3rd rnd grade. He’s too good of an athlete to not take a flyer on. At the same time, I wouldn’t spend a ton of time working him as a QB. You’re talking about habbits and techniques that he has ingrained for 15 yrs. He’s not going to change them all of a sudden in a camp or two.
It seems that on a certain level
Urban Meyer really used him as a tool by ignoring his fundamentals and only playing to his strengths. I’ll rant on the Florida program some other time, though.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Tebow
It sounds as if the team and Tebow himself did what was needed for Florida to win, and not worry about Tim’s future pro career.
High QB pick - Carver
Yes, right, using the fourth pick for a QB is taking a risk, but then, it always is, has to be, because that pick is going to be #1 for awhile, and anybody else gets shuttled back. E.g., it must have been a risk for the Colts to take Peyton Manning. It’s also a (smaller) risk to take a lineman. E.g., Mike Williams was a very high first round pick, and he has so far not realized his promise (I hope he will). Keeping Jason means he will be number one, so you’re hoping that he gets better, and taking the risk (opportunity cost) of passing up a great QB who can lead us for years. If Shanahan opts to stick with JC, it will be very hard to change for several years. So there’s risk no matter which route you take. Going with a rookie QB in 2010 might be a near term negative but long term positive.
I still say you can mitigate both
and make a more informed opinion by drafting a QB in the 2011 draft. It minimizes the risk for both scenarios and gives you a proven commodity while the new guy gets up to the speed of the NFL.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
We could just put the 1yr. tender on him for this coming season
it will be very hard to change for several years.
Then it wouldn’t be hard to change in 2011 at all. But then again, that argument doesn’t spin towards your desire to draft a QB this year instead of establishing a solid line first.
Brooks Mock 2.0 @NFL.com
He makes a great point that I can’t argue with.
1)If the Rams don’t take QB
2)We don’t take a QB
The first QB off the board could potentially be the Cardinals at 26.
The only other 2 teams that might go QB are Bills and Niners.
I think the panthers are pretty good with moore
he showed some real potential at the end of the year. Who knows what the raiders will do with their pick/team. They (Al Davis) constantly makes no sense when making decisions in this decade. The Jaguars might take a QB but they really need help all around. Plus I don’t know how many fans would come out to see Bradford or Clausen down there.
by Nobetterthenbob on Feb 25, 2010 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
Word out of Oaktown
Davis has no intention of spending 1st rnd money on a QB with Jemarcus still on contract. He blames coaching for Russell’s failures.
See my post on how to draft a QB
Not saying its correct, but the author believes that up to 7 teams may draft a QB this year. I guess we’ll let the talking heads duke it out and see what becomes reality.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
I think that's right
With Was, StL, Jac, Ari, Buf all looking for starters and probably 3 or 4 teams looking for backups. But I’d be suprised if 2 went in the 1st rnd. No way in hell 3 go in the 1st rnd.
I can see why everyone hates the media
afterall, they are always right….hmmm.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Return of Joey T.?
Clausen sounds like another ND QB who wore #7 and was seen as cocky. He led the Redskins to a SB victory.
Yeah, he was. Just ask his ND and Redskins teammates, and his ex-wife, whom he left for Cathy Lee Crosby. He was SO full of himself, as a 3rd string QB and punt returner.
by SkinsNatsCaps on Feb 26, 2010 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
Forgot about the wife ditching
That was pretty low class. Seems she spent a lot of time just packing him in ice after games to get him able to move on Mondays, as I recall. Yeah, Joey = douche.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Thank you KevinE for posting such great analysis
I don’t post all the time for time-allocation reasons but i’m grateful that i have this sight and these kinds of pre-draft articles to read instead of the inane, painfully generic “What will happen with Tebow” tropes on most other sites
by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Feb 26, 2010 11:32 PM EST reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
