Redskins Wide Recievers are EXPLOSIVE!
by Tiller56 on Feb 21, 2010 8:00 PM EST
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Below are the results of the skill positions in the 2008 combine. Check out the WR Catagory. Please take note of a few things when disecting these numbers. First notice the 10 and 20 sec splits in the 40. Devin Thomas has the fastest time of all the WR's in the first 10 and 20 yards: a 1.48 and a 2.52. NFL scouts use this to measure a players explosion off the ball, and how fast a player can reach top speed. He clocked the 7th fastest 40 time at 4.4 flat. The fastest 40 time by a WR was Desean Jackson who ran a 4.35. Note Desean Jackson's 10 and 20 yard splits were a 1.55 and a 2.53 respectively. Thomas is 6-2 215lbs. Jackson is 5-10 169. Also note that Devin Thomas recorded the 3rd best Standing Broad Jump(10-6, another test to measure a players explosion, amongst all WR's.
Please notice that the fastest man in the NFL today, Chris Johnson, also tested at this combine. Johnson ran a 4.24 40. Note his 10 and 20 yard splits. A 1.4 and a 2.41 respectively. His 10 yard split is not much better than Devin Thomas', and his 10-10 Broad Jump(second best amongst all RB's) is only 4 inches more than Devin Thomas'.
Not to be outdone, Malcom Kelly, who was coming off injury ran a 4.54 40 yard dash. Now that doesn't sound all that impressive, unless you take into consideration that, at 6-4 224 lbs, he was the 2nd biggest WR in the 2008 draft. Kelly, who reportedly has a 34" vertical and a 10-4 broad jump should not be overlooked when the word playmaker is mentioned.
Also worth noteing, Marko Mitchell, in the 2009 NFL draft, clocked a 4.49 at 6-4 218lbs.
Now I know combine stats don't mean everything, but they should certainly count for something when it comes to the type of athletes we currently have as WR's on this team.
So now you ask... Santana who? (relax, just kidding)
2008 NFL Scouting Combine Results:
http://www.mattrauch.com/2008-nfl-combine-results.php
2009 NFL Scouting Combine Results:
http://www.mattrauch.com/2009-nfl-combine-results.php
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LOL
i like or WR’s, but calling them the best wr corp in 2011 is a little hasty. what about the super bowl champs? or the runner ups?
the cardinals(even without boldin) have more talent, but they might be less productive with no qb
the chargers, the broncos(if they get marshall back), the texans, the steelers, the eagles, the packers….
i love our guys but theyre not gonna be the top WR core.
A little hasty?
I guess I should wait for it to happen before I predict it…
I think Chris Johnson has a pro bowl year in 2011 too. And maybe Drew Brees.
I don't see why we should see anything less
now that the Varsity is running the show.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Now if they could just show it on the field where it really matters.
"When the rich wage WAR its the POOR that die!!!"
Anthony Alridge was in the combine as a WR rather than RB.
Wide Receivers School Ht Wt 40 Time 20 Time 10 Time Bench Vert. Broad Shuttle Cone
Anthony Alridge Houston 5~09 170 4.36 2.54 1.51 (na) 30.5 11′02″ (na) 6.88
NFL Acquisition: Signed with the Denver Broncos as an undrafted rookie free agent in May 2008
Alridge was a running back at Houston. His 10 yd time was one of the best. His broad jump of 11’ 2" was the best while his vertical jump was peculiarly not that great. If the Skins could only get that potential channeled in the right direction.
I don't know who to blame for their poor production
Obviously Zorn did not know how to use them.
"I am excited about starting 2009. We are looking forward to an outstanding year. We're on our way. We have a lot of healthy players this year." - Vinny Cerrato
In hindsight that seems to be the main reason
I'm not booing Stephon Heyer, he's trying hard. I'm booing the fact that Stephon Heyer plays for us.
by Area 51 Forever on Feb 22, 2010 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
Their production became relevant
once Sherm began calling plays. Then they exploded (all to some degree); at least compared to what we’ve seen.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Kevin your review of the offensive line got into part of this.
Zorn was very limited on adjusting play calling. The Skins’ offense did OK in the 2008 season until it was defensed. Zorn was not good at adjusting his offensive play calling by the time mid-season rolled around.
I tried to look into Pro Football Focus from 2007 to 2009, but only 8 games were in the data base for 2007. The initial scheme was to use the running plays of 2007 on into 2008. Actually for the 2007 PFF in games covered the performance of the individual OL looked good enough -http://profootballfocus.com/cstats.php?tab=by_team&season=2007&teamid=32&stype=a&stats=o. Surprisingly the run blocking in 2009 on Football Outsiders for plays off of right tackle rated #5 in the NFL – http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol.
Table 2 – Adjusted Line Yards in each direction listed in official NFL play-by-play
Year….……….LEFT. END…………LEFT TACKLE……MID/GUARD……RIGHT TACKLE ……..RIGHT END
RankTEAM …ALY …….Rank …….ALY……Rank ……..ALY…….Rank …….ALY……..Rank ………..ALY……Rank
2000
3 WAS……..4.00………..4………3.45…….28………..4.09………16………..4.22………20……….5.07……….7
2001
4 WAS…….4.32………..13……..3.72…….23……….4.55………..4…………3.52………23……….4.67……….6
2002
4 WAS…….4.61………..12……..3.92…….24……….4.48………..8…………5.28………1…………4.96……….5
2003
13 WAS……5.55………..1……….4.17…….16 ………4.12………..20……….2.47………32……….4.65……….5
2004
17 WAS…….3.91………..22……..4.11…….22……….4.00………..20……….4.41………12………4.57………..6
2005
5 WAS……..4.48………..8……….4.30…….16……….4.30…………8………..3.99……….18……..5.02………..2
2006
14 WAS…….4.00……….18……..4.93………5………..4.50…………7………..3.87……….26……..3.84………..19
2007
17 WAS…….4.07……….14……..4.82………7………..4.06………..16 ………4.06……….20……..3.68………..24
2008
5 WAS……..4.77……….11……..5.04………4………..4.17…………14………4.07……….18……..4.02………..17
2009
26 WAS…….3.19……….28……..3.95………20……..4.30…………..9……….4.60………..5……….3.13………..27
Pass Protection maybe in another post since it has been a more critical o-line problem, but this is tedious.
by Jefferson1935 on Feb 22, 2010 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
Redskin Run Blocking and Pass Protection
Success of run blocking helps the play action pass to work successfully. The defense has to respect the running game and needs to keep a more balanced attack. A good passing game also helps draw plays to work occasionally. The amount of time the QB takes to find and release his pass also helps pass protection, i.e., the quick release means the blockers do not need to hold their blocks as long. Yet the blockers including those in the backfield need to provide protection long enough for the longer pass routes to develop. Not all sacks are caused by the offensive line.
Table 1b – Pass Protection
Year Team……Sack Rank .. Sacks Adj. Sack Rate
2005 – WAS…………17………………31………..7.0%
2006 – WAS…………..5………………19………..4.4%
2007 – WAS…………12………………29………..5.1%
2008 – WAS…………15………………38………..6.0%
2009 – WAS……….27……….……46 ……..8.5%
Pro Football Focus: Offense – http://profootballfocus.com/by_team.php?tab=by_team&season=2009&teamid=-1&stats=&gameid=
Team ……………………….Overall……Pass Rush Pass Block Run Block Penalty
Wash. 2009 Redskins.-117.1……..22.4……..2.7………….-33.6………….-62.6………….-46.0
Wash. 2008 Redskins..-74.3……….7.1……19.3…………..-19.4…………-36.3………….-45.0
Wash. 2007 Redskins…-8.2……….1.7……..2.0……………-3.6…………..17.2………….-25.5 (only 8 games)
Individual player performance for the season:
http://profootballfocus.com/cstats.php?tab=by_team&season=2009&teamid=32&stype=a&stats=o
While Dockery did not perform poorly, he was a step down for LG from Kendall.
individual player performance by game and position:
http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&surn=Rabach&playerid=852
Selected:
Player……Snaps..Overall….Pass Block…Screen Block……..Run Block……Penalty…# of Pen..QB Sk…QB Ht…QB Pr
Rabach
2009……1,026……-6.4………..0.3…………….0.0………………..-1.2………..-5.5…….7-2………..1………..4……….12
2008……1,090….-19.1………-7.7……………..0.0………………..-8.9………..-2.5…….3-1………..5………..6……….12
2007……..572…….9.2……….2.6………………1.0………………..9.6………..-4.0…….4-0………..0………..4…………2
Dockery
2009……1,026……3.1………..8.8……………..1.5………………..-4.2………-3.0…….3-0…………2………..4……….11
Kendall
2008…….1,090….13.5……….8.8……………..2.0…………………4.7……….-2.0……..3-1………..2………..4………10
2007………621….17.3……….5.3……………..2.5………………..11.5………-2.0………2-0………..1……….1………..4
Levi Jones
2009……..527 ….-27.0…….-15.6………………0.5……………….-8.9……….-3.0……..3-0…………6………14……..19
Chris Samuels
2009…….249……-2.8……….-1.9……………..-0.5……………….-0.4…………0.0 …….0-0…………2………..1………9
2008…….792…….3.7……….-0.8………………1.5………………..9.0………..-6.0……..7-2………..5…………4……..20
2007…….621…..10.4……….-1.3………………0.5………………16.7………..-5.5……..6-3……….2…………7……..11
Heyer
2009…….974……-24.8…….-14.7……………-2.5…………………0.9………..-8.5…….9-1…………8………11……..33
2008…….485…….-8.7………-1.4……………..0.0………………..-1.8……….-5.5…….6-0………..5………..1……….12
2007…….170…….-3.4………-5.7……………..0.0………………..4.3………..-2.0…….2-0………..2………..6………..5
Thomas
2008……1,090….-12.5……..-0.7……………..4.5………………..-16.3……….0.0……..0-0………..4……….9……….13
Composite RG (M. Williams, Montgomery, Rinehart, E. Williams could be developed)
M. Williams total
2009…….458…….-9.9……..-8.8……………..0.5…………………-1.6………..0.0……..0-0………..4………..5……….12
less RT
Will Montgomery
2009……288…….-5.1………1.0………………1.0…………………-4.1………..-3.0……..3-2………..1……….3………..4
Chad Rinehart
2009……227……-0.9………-0.2………………0.0…………………-0.7…………0.0……..0-0………..1………..1………..3
by Jefferson1935 on Feb 22, 2010 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
how depressing
after looking at those links it is amazing we won any games at all with this OL and we still have people who don’t want to draft an OL with the #4 pick. We need at least 3 OL, if not 5, before we’ll have a respectable (not dominant) OL.
"We need at least 3 OL, if not 5, before we’ll have a respectable (not dominant) OL." Agreed!
I figured if some people actual read and understood these numbers that the bull jiving would tone down some. It can be seen in the figures that Samuels had actually slipped a lot by 2008. If that PFF info went back before 2007 Randy Thomas had seen his better days by 2008 as well. Rinehart may actually be a good backup.
As Johnnydee has said on a few occasions, last years play makes it hard to evaluate anyone.
While I worked with the A through Z producing statistics for 34 years, I have only begun to look at football statistics in the last year. Hence, the number crunching that appears on HH ever so often. Actually, football statistics are in the sense of quality much “harder” than some like estimates for crude petroleum or natural gas reserves. Sorry Palin, that is not your field.
by Jefferson1935 on Feb 23, 2010 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
So in essence
this graph says that our o-line sucked, but there were 1 or 2 of our players that sucked a little less than the rest?
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
Alright, ProFootballFocus is okay, but don't look at it too hard.
They have Reed Doughty as the 7th overall safety in the league…
Isn't it based on performance that year?
because if it is, I could understand it a little better.
by Nobetterthenbob on Feb 23, 2010 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
The 2008 draft's running backs, plus a few other comments:
2008 was a very good draft for RBs. The combine results support this event as a screening tool for drafting purposes at least for running backs. The 2009 combine did not have results for many of the tests shown in 2008 for the majority of the participants.
In 2009, the fastest offense linemen were not that highly selected. Jamon Meredith was a 5th rd pick and was taken off of the Packers’ practice squad by the Bills (He did start 3 games for the Bills before injury.) Lydon Murtha was picked in the 7th round and the Dolphins got him off of the Lions’ practice squad. Joel Bell end up a UDFA and played in the CFL in 2009 after being cut by the Bills.
Also amongst the tight ends, Fred Davis was only listed for the 40yd dash, but he was not near the fastest.
Purposes of Physical Testing –
http://www.topendsports.com/sport/gridiron/nfl-draft.htm
Combines
are only a measure against each other- it never really truly predicts production in the NFL. Skill sets can be bust if placed in the wrong system, bad coaching, poor supporting cast, etc. Its why a bust usually becomes a bust. The skill is there- but the chemistry isn’t.
*also, work ethic. Some guys bust their A$$ to make a name, but when the ball is kicked… the heart disappears.
JJ Fe
Of course the flip side is,
if you are slow, you are pretty much slow for life. Jumping and strength test scores can be improved somewhat, but the quick muscle twitch skills probably cannot be improved very much.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
if that's true
then why do people hire speed coaches?
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
to help the economy?
I'm not booing Stephon Heyer, he's trying hard. I'm booing the fact that Stephon Heyer plays for us.
by Area 51 Forever on Feb 22, 2010 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
That would be
fast people hire speed coaches to get a leetle better. Slow people do so if they want to waste time and money.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
makes sense I guess
Is toby gerhart considered slow?
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
I think he's considered a John Riggins
but a shad slower. John was amazingly fast for his size (ran 100 dash for track team in college at Kansas).
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
I disagree 100%
Making people faster is not rocket science, and is quite easy to accomplish with some hard work and time in the weight room. The problem is that most “strength coaches” have their heads up their asses.
Then why isn't everyone really, really superfast
if all they have to do is go to the gym? They are already there. You would think that in a league that emphasizes speed everyone would know this.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Everyone has a genetic limit
to the speed they can attain but few people ever come close to their full potential. The majority of elite college strength training programs are jokes, but their principles are successful because their recruiting process naturally selects those individuals who are naturally more athletically gifted than most.
Edit
They think* their principles are successful. The same is true with professional strength and conditioning coaches— they think they are gurus but in truth the system is just skewed to give them the most naturally gifted athletes to start out.
Interesting...
but isn’t my point valid. Already speedy people have gone through the Darwinistic process of becoming a Pro Football player. If they could all simply do a few different/extra exercises wouldn’t they? So I guess it begs the question, “Who does hire speed coaches?” per Rekka.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
The truth is
that while professional football players are genetically gifted athletes, most of them are rank novices when it comes to proper barbell training and have not realized their true capabilities. There are exceptions— players like Brian Orakpo, but by and large strength coaches in Universities are pretty clueless.
Sorry but this is one of my areas of interest, and my rant is probably outside the scope of this blog and inappropriate. But to sum it up, it isn’t a matter of simply “going to the gym.”
I agree....
speed and power can be added to a runner’s repertoire somewhat easily. I will say the “go to the gym” statement is a little vague and misleading. I was a RB and LB in high school….and we regularly trained with parachutes to improve our initial burst as well as top speed and power. We did other drills but I found this to have the fastest and most efficient results, at least for myself. Power in the weight room gets attained from heavier lifting and speed can be increased through lightweight, high-rep workouts. In addition….just running in general helps build in muscle memory. If you don’t try to run fast regularly…..your body will not “know” how to. It’s just like everything else….practice and discipline!
If you have elite speed, there isn't much you can do to make you faster,
but if you have average or below average speed, a speed coach can do wonders. They work on things like form, lower body lean, and running tech, as well as exercises for strenght and explosion.
Thanks guys, for the insight (CS&T)
I’m just surprised that I don’t see EVERY NFL player with a chute behind him (no CP jokes here!) helping him go faster. Well…if you must, just 4 or 5 CP jokes! :)
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
it alwalys comes back around
to the offensive line. better protection will give DT and MK more time to find space or the case of DT create more separation.
just one MORE reason to focus on the line this off season
our received might run 40 yards in 4-5 seconds, but our QB consistently gets sacked in 3-4 seconds
by les boulez bomber on Feb 22, 2010 12:36 PM EST reply actions
Zorn coming into replace Gibbs.....
set this team back a few years. Just the same as when Steve Spuriour took over for Marty Shottenhemier. We needed help at the recieving spots and seem to have a bright spot there now. I will agree with anyone that thinks the O-line is now the week spot . I myself have questioned the durability of the O-line the past few years and know the Skins thought they still had a chance back then at competing for a playoff spot. None of that happened and speculation remains as to what we should have done with draft picks. We will all look like a genious if the O-line gets repaired this offseason with the draft, if it is still bad we will all be reading the same posts over and over as to who is at fault and what to do the next year in the draft. We can only hope that our picks will be succesfull and be the answer.
Receivers
Jim Zorn about destroyed this team. Sad. Who knows how much our receivers (“i before e except after c”) were hurt by Zorn’s incompetence?
Coaches are only responsible for so much.
No coach is so bad that he’d turn amazing receivers into bad ones.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I don't think he's saying they were bad receivers
but they weren’t even targeted for the most part last year, for an abundance of reasons. One of which happened to be the fact that they were buried behind the depth chart, because the coaching staff trusted the veterans.
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
Look at D.Jackson and Maclin in Philly......
D. Jackson was picked about the same time as D.Thomas….look at what they have done with the kid. The fit the offense to rotate through him at least 30% of the time. They designed a significant portion of their playbook and offensive schemes to get these 2 guys the ball. They have produced…….we could and should have done that with Thomas instead of forcing him into a system.
probably one of the best examples
along with percy harvin from minnesotta
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
My first thought was to go to Harvin but...
Philly has 2 great examples in successive years. Harvin is also a perfect example. Those plays they ran for him this year were not there the year before…..they made a gameplan to get him and only him the ball. I know we have run a couple end arounds with DT…..the one from his RC year still clear in my head (1st TD in NFL). Why are we not making these guys succeed instead of waiting for them to succeed?
'Tis the million dollar question
from the past two years of this organization. Nobody knows why things weren’t changed when they saw it wasn’t working until after the fact. But at the least we have hope because they did get rid of the old regime.
Just gotta see if it’s the same shit in different packaging now.
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
any gameplan
will involve pass blocking and with our OL that wasn’t going to happen. Our WRs aren’t going to look good without an OL.
It's too early to say why this is.
It’s possible Kelly, and to a lesser extent DT, aren’t elite WRs. Whereas Desean clearly is, and Maclin is still unknown.
I agree that Zorn wasn’t putting players in a position to succeed, but I caution against assuming the young WRs are better than we’ve seen simply b/c Zorn sucked.
Look at D.Jackson and Maclin in Philly……
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I am not and haven't said...
they are elite. Moss is our clear #1….I know others disagree. I am just saying….with the few glimpses DT has shown….there is that potential. He hasn’t been put in a situation to be made to succeed. As for Kelly…..I just haven’t seen enough to categorize him as anything other than a role player at this point. I hope that changes. I feel like we wait to often for players to succeed on their own instead of putting them in situations where it is do or die. Look at the list of FA that used to be Skins posted on the main page. Ryan Clark and Antonio Pierce are clear examples……we wait for guys to show instead of making them or putting them in situations where that have to. They go somewhere else….and instant success. Campbell will be the same if we let him go!
LJP, I would be careful how you phrase that.
People are going to want to kill your for saying Thomas is better than Moss. It would be believable to say that Thomas has more or better potential than Moss does now, but to say that right now he is better will cause some people to attack you.
LJP, Attack away I have thick skin .. LOL Look at how many people including Scott feel like we can now trade Moss. Why do you think this is? He knows that we have a replacement for Moss in Thomas.
by LETJASONPASS on Feb 23, 2010 7:17 AM EST up reply actions
I think we still need Moss
I think it really boils down to the approach for next year. If we’re trying to put a team out there to win as many games as possible, Moss needs to be on the roster. Moss still has speed and demands coverage. If we’re going to bite the bullet and focus on rebuilding for the future then sadly Moss would much better suit us on the trade block
totally agree
we can’t just dump everyone else because we feel like thomas and kelly are stepping up
by redskinsfan14 on Feb 23, 2010 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
Good points
both of you. We’ll just have to wait and see what Shanny is going to do.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
its a big year for thomas and kelly ?
we need these guys to produce in a big way cause we dont know if randle el or moss will be cut or not ..
I think we can safely say
that ARE won’t be here.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Nothing's safe until I hear those words coming out of Ashburn
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
I guess he could be retained as a
punt catcher. [shudder]
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
was that a joke?
punt catcher
he can’t even do that!!
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
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