Trade the #4 Pick!
by JeanBaptiste on Feb 11, 2010 1:49 AM EST
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PrintI am all for trading back. I think that picks 11-15 in the first round are the “money picks”. That is where you can get a franchise players who won’t cost as much as the top 5 players. The last two times Shanahan picked in the first round with picks 11-15, he selected pro bowlers each time.
For this mock draft I believe that we will get another second round pick by letting one of our restricted free agents walk. I hope the skins trade back and we swap first round picks with, get a third round and a future pick next year. (I hoping Shanahan takes a page out of the Bill Belichick playbook and stock draft picks like they’re food rations)
Redskins Needs: OT, OG C, RB, FS, OLB, NT
1st round
Anthony Davis -| OT | Rutgers | 6-6 | 325lbs |- We need Lineman and Davis fits that description.
2nd Round
Bruce Campbell -|OT| Maryland | 6-7 | 310 |- He has the physical tools necessary to play tackle in the NFL. It going to be about whether he can put it all together on the field. I really like Campbell,
2nd Round
Jerry Hughes -| OLB/DE| TCU| 6-2| 257 |- He is such a versatile player. He could be a great pass rusher in the NFL. And just to display of his versatility, in high school Hughes was a first team all district kick returner. Also Carter will be 31 at the start of the season
Alternative – Colt McCoy- | QB | Texas | 6-2 | 212 |- I wouldn’t mind seeing the Redskins reunite him with his former Texas teammate Brian Orakpo. As long as his accuracy holds up at the NFL level he will be successful.
3rd round
Mike Williams- | WR | Syracuse | 6-2 | 212lbs |- Yes, I know we have young receivers who are “developing”. However, I believe this is where Shanahan will put his stamp on the team. He will draft a receiver that he can trust will get the job done. A receiver who will have time to learn from veterans and can step in when called on. In recent years Shanahan has been pretty successful drafting receivers so I won’t complain if he does draft one. (Eddie Royal and Brandon Marshall come to mind)
Alternative- Major Wright - | FS | Florida | 6-0 | 204lbs |- I'm sure that Jim Haslett will realize that Laron Landry is a Strong Safety which means that we need to acquire a free safety. Also if Wright falls to the 3rd round he would be a steal.
4th
Ben Tate- | RB | Auburn | 5-11 | 214lbs |- Behind Shanahan's system Tate could be very successful. Also anyone who can own Eric Berry like he did is a definitely worth a look.
Click on the link to see the proof.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tK-ttHGJRU
Note: There was a video that showed more times Tate embarrassed Berry throughout the game but that one has been taken down.
Alternative 4th round pick
Joe McKnight -| RB | USC | 6-0 | 190lbs |- He has breakaway speed. Something we are missing on offense altogether.
5th Round
Robert Johnson- | FS | UTAH | 6-2 | 200lbs|- He has great hands. That’s something we need more of in our secondary. He is also a former cornerback, so you know the coverage skills are there. He is very physical against the run. His only drawback is that he played in the Mountain West Conference.
Alternative-Jeff Byers- | C/OG | USC | 6-3 |299lbs|- Versatile player who can play center or offensive guard.
7th Round
Mike James-| RB/KR/PR | Florida |5-7|185lbs| The redskins need Mike James in the worst way. I just don't believe Randel El and Rock Cartwright are going to score a touchdown on special teams ever again. I want to see a punt or a kick returned for a touchdown. Mike James brings that potential. He has been a star kick returner in college and can continue his work in the NFL.
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I don't watch a lot of college ball so I don't really have a clue about anyone's potential except for some people that I actually know
But I am all aboard for trading back and acquiring more picks. It just makes too much sense. The more picks we have, the more players we get, the higher the chance of having some impact players.
I think Shan will try to trade the pick. I don't think he finds any takers.
Love the Davis, Campbell, Hughes picks. All solid. Wright, Byers, and James look good also. Not sure if Tate or McNight will be there at 4, but good strategy overall.
Pretty much hit all the weaknesses in one draft.
yeah Tate and McKnight might go in the 3rd round depending on their combine
but it cant hurt to dream
by JeanBaptiste on Feb 11, 2010 4:35 AM EST up reply actions
Their will be takers,need to trade pick 4,pick up as many draft picks as we can get
C.McCoy and T.Tebow will be there in 2nd round,should try to pickup an RB or OL in 1st round.
by CHAOS-BRINGER on Feb 11, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
BrandonO, He want's to trade down and pick up tebow with one of those picks. (trade down,/yes) (Tebow/ no)
by LETJASONPASS on Feb 11, 2010 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
Spurrier’s not our coach, so Tebow will not come to DC
Rock the Red! Rock the White! Rock the Blue! Rock the Pens!
by RedskinFan4Life on Feb 14, 2010 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
I like the picks a lot. This would make for an awesome draft.
I would love if Campbell fell to us in the second, but I have a feeling he will be a 1st rounder. I really like the Byers pick later in the draft. Tate seems like a good option in the 4th if he is there.
It would be great if Campbell fell to 37.
I think he goes by 25 to.
by johnnydee83 on Feb 11, 2010 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
I love the idea of trading back.
And I’m starting to think it could happen. Here’s my rationale: The top 5 picks, as of now, are probably Suh, McCoy, Berry, Okung, and Claussen. Depending on combines, you could see players like Davis, Bryant, or even McClain move up. The consensus among the interblogs is that Shanahan will want to draft a QB to mold under his tenure because “new regime means new QB”. The other widely known information is that Sam Bradford’s doctor is on the Redskins staff so that we almost have insider information about his recovery. As the media says, “if his shoulder has recovered, we will know and take him”, but this also works the other way: “If his shoulder isn’t recovered, we will know and we won’t take him”. With Bradford being limited during the combine and workouts, we have the most material information on him. The other assumption I have is that beyond San Francisco at #13, teams will not have the resources, or be willing to use the resources, to trade up to #4. That still leaves St. Louis, Cleveland, Buffalo, Seattle Jacksonville, Denver, San Fran, and us potentially looking for QBs with only 2 really available. I see two or three possible favorable scenarios:
1) Claussen gets taken before us. All eyes are Washington to take Bradford, but we trade down for a team looking for an elite DT or LT (or Berry/Bradford – less likely). This raises a red flag for teams looking for a QB that Bradford’s injury may be worse than they hoped. They don’t want to risk using a top 15 pick on him, and we end up getting Shanahan a QB (if he is actually healthy – and Shanhan wants him).
2) Claussen is available at 4. Teams have been looking to see if he’ll fall, and he becomes more attainable through trade at our spot. Buffalo, Seattle, or Denver trade up with us. We get more picks, and maybe Bradford’s shoulder lets him fall to us in the middle of the first. If not, we still have players like Campbell, Spiller, McClain, Weatherspoon, Thomas, Iupati available to fill needs.
3) Claussen gets taken by St. Louis. Someone trades up with Tampa or Detroit to take Bradford before we presumably do. I don’t see this happening, especially with injury concerns, but it leaves either Suh or McCoy with us at 4. Both are pretty obvious trade bait.
I really don’t think Tampa or Detroit would pass up on an elite DT, so #3 is very unlikely.
- is most likely. Claussen to St. Louis. People expect us to draft Bradford at 4 because of all this media build-up. If we trade down, Bradford could fall Quinn-style to mid-1st.
If shanahan really wants Bradford, I dont think he will take a chance and won’t trade down. Like you said there are plenty of teams looking for QBs and while the redskins have some insider information on Bradford shoulders, it’s not like other teams are left completely in the dark. They will know pretty well too how his shoulder is doing through workouts and maybe the combine.
I agree with in you in that Detroit and Tampa take the 2 DTs.
The Rams are the big question at the top. They need a QB desperately, probably more so than any other team. I don’t think the trade down works here for a few reasons: The cost in draft picks and the salary of the pick itself are so prohibitive. There isn’t that stud QB that everyone wants.
The Bradford issue should be crystal clear by draft day. He has several private workouts already scheduled, Andrews has said he is ahead of where he should be, and that his shoulder will be stronger than before. Andrews also has no exclusive agreement with Washington. He also does work for other teams and players, he will openly discuss Bradfords condition. The chance of Bradford falling out of top 7-8 are too unlikely to risk if he is targeted for a trade down pick-up.
I believe that Bradford will end up in St Louis, the talent that Claussen has doesn’t overwhelm the baggage that he carries. If B/C are there at 4, I think Shan would go Bradford. I think Claussen falls before Bradford, but not past 7.
I think Claussen will be elite.
I’m not sure on Bradford, but he’s got great ball control. If both are there, and Shanny wants a QB, I hope he takes Claussen.
Love the picks - if they are there
Tackles are premium players early in the first round because their skills are easier to project coming into the NFL. Alot of people have Davis as the top tackle over Okung so if we trade out of the top 10 I don’t know how likely we are to get him. I believe in the middle of the first Campbell will be the most likely pick. He has had some injuries in college but I do not see him slipping out of the first round. Early in the second we will have to hope either Iupati or Baluga slip, otherwise we will probably not pick a lineman. We have too many holes to fill to reach for a guy in this spot. Wouldnt mind seeing us grab a big middle backer like Spikes if he’s here (depending on his forty time) or a rush backer like Graham who had a coming out party in the senior bowl. With the later pick in the second round I love the Hughs pick if hes there. But if we take an OLB with our first second rounder I wouldnt mind seeing us take Pouncey out of Florida. He was a very productive center in college and could be a nice addition to the rebuilding of our O-Line.
by snydersabutthole on Feb 11, 2010 1:21 PM EST reply actions
It's such a solid draft class at several positions that I wish we had..
2 or 3 more mid round picks.
I agree we need to make a trade.....
It’s all about value. If there is no value at 4……trade it until you get the value you want….whether it is value based on contract, particular players, or number of players. Is it better to get talent, depth and youth at multiple positions at this point….or take a blind pick on a stud with a lot of guaranteed money. Would love to see a trade swung with one of the teams with multiple first or second rounders. The Pats stacked their draft I think…..and there a few teams with multiple early round picks. I also mentioned previously…..if the value isn’t there at 4 and you can’t work a trade….don’t force it…..pass the pick until the situation you want comes up!
I discussed this on another post....
but the team has the option to pass on their pick. All they have to do is let time run out.,…..the next team goes on the clock. The team that passed their pick can pick at any point they want as long as their pick doesn’t match the team that is on the clock!
Not big on passing the pick
Value does exist, unless you are picking only on team need. And that is as bad as always picking for Best player. It needs to be balanced.
I am taking into account....
money for unproven talent against risk. If you, as a team, are not positive the guy at #4 is going to pan out…..why take it? Why force it and possibly put your club in long term contractual risk for an unproven NFL talent….unless you are completely sold? If you aren’t….and can’t find a trade partner…..why force it? That’s like buying a house not knowing how many bedrooms there are…..if the plumbing is sound or anything……going on your gut. Going by gut is fine but not when you are talking 50 million dollars. If you aren’t sold on anyone…..do what you have to do for the best of the club!
It is amazing how the tide has turned on the trade down theory. When "LJP" first mentioned this nobody was on board. If I recall everyone was saying that we had to draft Okung.
It feels good so many have now seen the light. LOL
It's true, you started it*
*Sarcasm again. You’re just too full of yourself to read and understand anyone else’s opinion.
ss, You probably were one of the people that had bashed, me when I brought it up. LOL
Don’t worry their is room for you on the “johnny come lately bandwagon”.
by LETJASONPASS on Feb 11, 2010 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
It's really that simple
I would say most on here have been about getting more picks and trading down
Where do you get your info, you make it up
You are so full of shit.....
now you are just making yourself a complete laughing stock. You are one of those guys…..that reads a whole article….and remembers one line from it! Everyone has been talking about trading down……and if we can’t…..they want Okung or Berry! Read everything……soak it all in…..then open your mouth!
by shvd98z24 on Feb 11, 2010 6:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
exactly
LJP is in a fantasy world folks. In HIS world he was the first to bring it up but in the real world he wasn’t. The trouble with being delusional is that you believe yourself and LJP is delusional.
afan, LOL welcome back I guess you can make it to the library, your friends or wherever you can borrow the use of someones computer at now.
Maybe I should go back and post the exact comment and date just to prove a point??
by LETJASONPASS on Feb 12, 2010 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
Love the idea, but not the execution
If we trade back from the 4th pick we need more than a mid 3rd rounder and a future pick. This is an incredibly deep draft and the Skins should focus on grabbing as much talent as possible this year. Depending on where we are trading back to in that 11-15 range the Skins should be getting at least a 2nd, a 3rd (maybe a 5th as well) in addition to a3rd or 4th round pick next year (again all depending on where you trade back to).
I like the idea of going OT, OT with our first two picks, but I don’t see Campbell being there at the top of the 2nd round. My guess is either Charles Brown or Trent Williams could fall, but none of Bulaga, Davis, Campbell or Okung.
Jerry Hughes doesn’t make much sense for the Skins, Orakpo is better and you need at least one DE who can play with their hand down. Wilson and Jarmon give the Skins enough depth. If the skins were to go defensive I’d take either a corner or safety there. If they go offensive grab McCluster to be the speed back.
No way I want anything to do with Mike Williams, he quit on his team and has a long history of off the field issues. Plenty of better wideouts i’d take over him. Also for a QB in the late 2nd early 3rd area look for Dan LeFevour, he could end up being the best QB in this class.
4th round Skins shouldn’t be interested in a runningback esp. guys like Tate or McKnight that don’t do anything (this is even if they didn’t get McCluster). Tate is ok but Gerhart could still be on the board and is a devastating short yardage back. McKnight is all hype in my eyes. He was supposed to be the next Reggie Bush, but couldn’t even come close to those numbers despite not having to split carries with Lendale White, or having a great passing attack to take away opportunities. I don’t think he’s a between the tackles runner, or nearly as explosive as Bush. And while the excuse is, he’s been injured, that should be another knock on him, not a positive. If the Skins go in another direction here would be a good spot for a guard or maybe a LB or DE.
I like Robert Johnson as a good sleeper pick (unless you already addressed safety). For the 7th round I’d look for a blocking TE or Fullback or potentially a receiver here with return skills. Either line could be addressed here as well.
Just a couple thing to think about
Jerry Hughes played Defensive end in college. So he can play with his hands in the dirt. However he is projected as an outside linebacker because of his ability to make plays while standing up.
last year Rey Maualuga was projected as a top 16 first round pick. then once the draft came he fell to the second round. Im not sure who will rise and fall in the draft but Im hoping Campbell falls in our lap.
One of our needs is running backs and Shananhan has made good players out of late round running backs. Ben Tate played great at Auburn and was a good running back. as noted McKnight has more speed than our entire offense. We need somebody that can break the long one.
by JeanBaptiste on Feb 12, 2010 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
Hughes is a 3-4 rush LB or a SLB in a 4-3
He played DE in college but doesn’t have the size/strength to do it at the next level. He will have to change positions. And I don’t think that is near enough a need or special enough of a player to warrant that pick.
ILB’s like Maualuga always fall, especially those with size and speed questions, not to mention the off the field issues of Maualuga. An OT like Campbell isn’t gonna fall into the 2nd round much less the 5th overall pick in that round. Guys like Williams or Brown could fall, because their is some concern about them being LT’s.
As for the Runningbacks i’m just not impressed with Tate. The SEC wasn’t exactly a great rush defense conference this season. To me Tate is nothing special. And While McKnight was supposed to be something special he turned out to be pretty average. And considering the talent around him and the injury history I’d say away from him. If Gerhart is sitting there in the 4th round the Skins got to take him. They need a power back more than they need a speed back. We can’t count on a back breaking 60-80 yard runs, but you can count on the fact we will be in plenty of short yardage or goalline situations.
Redskins will be incorporating the 3-4 in some way next year an Hughes would be a perfect fit at OLB
Watch this video of Jerry Hughes and tell me if you are unimpressed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwoo94qwh_4
I severely doubt Gehart will be there in the 4th round. I would like the skins to pick up Gerhart in 4th. But if he runs at least a 4.5 he will go in the second.
Also the redskins are in a big need for game changers. Someone with breakaway speed. Especially in our backfield where it seems like we have nothing but power backs.
by JeanBaptiste on Feb 14, 2010 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
Hughes doesn't fit the Skins
We already have Orakpo and Chris Wilson. Why would we use a 2nd round pick to draft a guy who would be lucky to get in 5 plays, and is unsuitable for the Skins base formation. I’d be happy with them adding a pass rusher later in the draft but that is way to early.
If you don’t think Gerhart will be there why are you projecting McKnight? While I disagree McKnight is more highly rated across the board, and has Pete Carroll in his corner. He will easily be taken in the top 3 rounds, because of his ‘speed’ which is overrated.
I’m all for getting a game breaking back, if its the right one. Thats why I suggested McCluster who unlike McKnight is an actual game changer. McKnight is vastly overrated given his comparison as the “next Reggie Bush”. McKnight isn’t even close to Bush, and Bush isn’t a great NFL back. Gerhart on the other hand IS the next John Riggins. And my point before if you could only have one what would you prefer, and ‘game breaker’ or a ‘power back’. I realize i’m probably in the minority, but I’d take Gerhart the power back, because his style of running is more conducive to the Skins, and our weak offensive line. I don’t care how fast or elusive you are, you aren’t gonna make an impact if you are getting hit in the backfield.
by Steve Shoup on Feb 15, 2010 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
I guess you arent thinking of the future
Chris Wilson hasn’t proven that he can be anything but a back up. Hughes is talented and would improve our pass rush. Carter is going to be 31 at the start of this season. All signs point to the Redskins converting to a 3-4 base defense. Hughes could end up anchoring the other linebacker spot. If not this season, then maybe the following season.
I am not saying that I wouldn’t like Gehart. He is a beast and I recognize that. But we have power in backfield. We also have mike Shanahan in our coaching staff. His offenses are so explosive when he has a speed back in the backfield. I am predicting that our line gets a lot better within the next two years, and when that happens it would be beneficial to already have that explosive back already on the roster.
by JeanBaptiste on Feb 15, 2010 4:53 AM EST up reply actions
What Has Hughes Proven?
Wilson has always shown an ability to rush the passer, and took to being a linebacker even better than Orakpo did. Wilson could easily be a 3-4 rush linebacker as he has shown all the skills necessary. Is he gonna go to the pro bowl, probably not, but you will get good production out of him. And I don’t think its a given they transition to a 3-4 full time. Carter will be 31, so what, plenty of DE’s are productive well into their mid-30s and we already drafted his backup in Jarmon. Remember rush linebackers can be found in any round, only a handful are taken in the top 2 rounds. Most are found much later in the draft. The same will hold true this year.
And we don’t have power in the backfield, none of our 4 runningbacks are power backs. How many times this season did we get in goal line situations and we couldn’t punch it in? Or 3rd and 4th and 1 situations and we couldn’t move the chains. A speed back is great but McKnight isn’t the answer. Look at Bush, (whom McKnight isn’t nearly as good as) off injured running backs who can’t find holes don’t succeed in the NFL. Also the whole thing about drafting a speed guy now to be good 3 years from now doesn’t make sense. Age kills speed, look at Portis in Denver and his first year or two here he broke some big runs, now he can’t. Same with Tomilson and “Fast” Willy Parker. Speed backs can age fast.
When in the world did Chris Wilson prove this
He only had one sack and didn’t do anything spectacular on the field. He’s been average on the field. He may get better or he may have already peaked. Only time will tell. the mentality should be that the team can always get better. And I don’t believe the Skins should wait on Wilson. If Hughes is the best player on the board with our second rounder, then I say we should take him.
Also you can never have enough great pass rushers. The more pass rushers you have, the more success your defense will have. Jerry Hughes could develop into a great pass rusher. Don’t let complacency blind you from seeing potential.
The only reason you’re comparing McKnight to Bush is because he went to USC. Every player is different. what about Jamaal Charles or Chris Johnson.
by JeanBaptiste on Feb 15, 2010 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
Wait What
The Redskins didn’t play a 3-4 last season so Wilson didn’t really see the field but when he was on there he looked solid transitioning to a 4-3 OLB. In a 3-4 Wilson is the prototypical rush linebacker. Even with his hand down in limited chances he had 4 sacks 3 years ago. Imagine him coming clean in a 3-4 alignment. You can’t disparage a player for not having the chance.
Look around the league at any team that runs a 3-4, they don’t always use 1st or 2nd round picks to fill their spots. Why b/c rush linebackers can be found up and down the draft. You know where the Packers got their outside linebackers Mathews in the 1st round and Brad Jones in the 7th (this past year). Yes guys like Merriman and Ware were 1st rounders, but look at Dumervil (end of the 4th round), Tully Banta-Cain 7th round, Adalius Thomas 6th round, James Harrison undrafted, Shaun Phillips 4th round, Harralson and Brooks (who split time) 5th round and undrafted.
If the majority of the teams who run the 3-4 don’t think the rush linebacker position is worth investing multiple high draft picks in, why should we when we won’t even use it all the time.
Potential is great but as I just have shown you can find potential in every round, and we have plenty of potential in Chris Wilson. So why don’t we draft someone in the 6th round and use a 2nd rounder for an actual need.
As for McKnight, I think its a fair comparison to Bush, in part b/c he went to USC, in part b/c everyone does, and in part b/c they are similar runners. They both went to USC, which doesn’t exactly have a great track record of churning out top players (most of which they do are on defense, and high draft picks that end up sucking aren’t a good counter arguement). McKnight and Bush are similar runners and that’s scary, because Bush isn’t that good, though he has gotten better. If McKnight could perform like Bush did this season then I’d say he’s worth a 4th round pick, but if McKnight performs like Bush did his rookie year then he’s barely worth a 7th round pick. Honestly I don’t care who you compare McKnight too, he has a high bust and injury factor attached to him. Both make me want the Redskins to pass on him. I really don’t understand what your argument is with McKnight he has no running vision, gets injured all the time, never even came close to reaching his ‘potential’ despite being on an immensely talented team.
R u serious
In no way does that mean you should pass up on a great player because of that. I think Hughes can be highly successful in the right system. Also for each one of your James Harrisons and Elvis Dummervils there are another 30 bust.
I will break down my arguments for McKnight.
1) Redskins need game changers
2) McKnight has that potential
3) If he is there with a 4th round pick say we should get him.
4) we have Mike Shanahan as our Head Coach.
enough said
by JeanBaptiste on Feb 16, 2010 12:49 AM EST up reply actions
What makes you think that system is a hybrid 3-4?
And their aren’t busts in the 1st or 2nd rounds? How bad of a pick was Verron Golston? The difference is when you “bust” in the 2nd round its a draft killer, when you “bust” in the 5th or 6th round, it doesn’t really impact your draft at all.
If the Redskins end up with 8 picks in the top 100 then sure use one of them on a rush linebacker. But otherwise I can’t see how you can ignore a QB, RB, CB, S or a true NT if we are switching to a 3-4. Or 3-4 dE’s since we don’t have that personnel. All those are of greater importance than grabbing our 4th Rush linebacker behind Carter, Orakpo and Wilson. Hughes is a nice prospect but you can find plenty of talented rush LB’s throughout the draft. THAT’S A PROVEN FACT. And this year is no exception. (also i looked up the past 5 draft classes and I really didn’t find your 30 busts so please explain, and most of the busts or under-performers are guys taken in the top couple of rounds).
What does Shanahan have to do with drafting McKnight? Is he gonna teach McKnight how to break a tackle, or find a hole, be patient for his blockers, prevent him from getting injured? And what makes McKnight have potential, his speed? Speed does not equal talent in the NFL. If McKnight wasn’t a game changer at USC, what makes you think he will be in the NFL? Could he be good, sure, will he, not likely. McKnight needs to learn how to be a running back or all the speed in the world won’t matter much.
If the Redskins already had an established RB, then I would have less of an issue with McKnight b/c you can develop him, and have a feature guy to carry the main load. But Washington was a 4-12 team last season, and we could have easily lost any of those games. We didn’t exactly put the fear of god into the Bucs or Rams. And the outcome could have been different if the Broncos and Raiders didn’t lose their starting quarterbacks for the 2nd half of those games. The Redskins need impact players for NEXT SEASON. Hughes being great 2 years from now, or McKnight 3 or 4 doesn’t interest me. The Redskins can’t rely on projects at any position besides quarterback. Because thats the only position that the player should be riding the bench the whole season.
As I’ve said before I’d rather see the Skins take an actual playmaker with that 2nd round pick in Dexter McCluster. Someone who is a game changer, running, receiving and in the return game. Hughes for what its worth is rated as a late 3rd rounder by ESPN. That might be a bit low, but taking him in mid-2nd round is probably a bit high. I would rather take McCluster in that spot, then in the 4th round if a rush backer is needed I would suggest Greg Hardy from Mississippi. He had a great Shrine week and is in that early 4th round mix (if he’s not available there are other solid options). I feel that’s a better option (and no i’m not an Ole Miss fan haha). Hardy is a bit bigger and stronger and could fit better in a system that asks him to both stand up and put his hand down. Hughes i think could be a very good rush LB, but would struggle with his hand down he’s only like 6’1" not exactly a great height to get into passing lanes.
by Steve Shoup on Feb 16, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
Your saying pass on hughes because your afraid of picking a bust
Lamar Woodley, Osi Umenyiora, Julius Peppers, Brian Orakpo, Clay Mathews, Andre Carter are all guys chosen in the first 2 rounds who have excelled in the NFL. The chances to pick a bust have bigger repercussions at any position that doesn’t mean that you should skip on them.
Imagine what the Redskins would be like if we pick up Osi instead of Taylor Jacobs in 03. No but we had a “need” at receiver so we reached for one. If a player is worth a second round pick and has a chance to be something special, then I say grab him. Especially if it’s a pass rusher. Did you watch the NFC playoffs? The Viking obliterated the Cowboys because they had so many talented pass rushers. I like what we have now but I am a fan who isn’t satisfied until we have the best. Imagine if we didn’t squander our picks in 07 and actually picked up Lamar Woodley. Are Osi and Lamar two guys worth second round picks? Yes they are.
Also don’t judge Hughes by his height. Elvis Dummervil is 5-11, Dwight Freeny is 6-1. Great pass rushers can come in all shapes and sizes.
If all you look for is next season then the skins can’t be successful in the future beyond that. The great thing about the Patriots, Colts and Steelers is that they don’t just look at next season. They look at what will be beneficial to them in the seasons beyond that. That is what wins Championship.
I feel like you are beating the McKnight issue to death. He runs fast. He is talented. We have talented coaches that have worked with far less. So it isn’t a big risk. Enough said.
by JeanBaptiste on Feb 17, 2010 3:50 AM EST up reply actions
Wow you really sweat Hughes don't you
Because I don’t understand what your obsession with him is unless you are his agent or something. I really don’t understand where you are coming from.
First off in your list of players Peppers and Osi have played solely as DE’s (though both could maybe transition to a rush linebacker). But honestly Peppers and Hughes have about as much in common as Hughes and I have. Peppers is 6’7" 280+, with long arms, upper body strength and speed.
And look I never called Hughes a bust (McKnight I called a bust) I simply said in response to your comment of “Also for each one of your James Harrisons and Elvis Dummervils there are another 30 bust.” (which you still haven’t really found me those 30 per Harrison and each one of those starters that were busts, but that’s neither here nor there) was the risk vs. reward factor. Pass rushers are extremely hard to project, there are just as many busts in the first couple of rounds as the mid to late rounds, except the bar is set much higher for those early rounds. There is a reason why Woodley and Osi weren’t considered consensus 2nd round picks. Most draft pundits and executives said Woodley was too slow, how many quarterbacks would disagree?
My overall point of all of this is positional value and draft depth. There is a reason why teams consistently look to acquire STARTING rush linebackers in the mid-late rounds of the draft, and that reason is because there are just a huge number of of college DE’s who convert to a 3-4 OLB. Since they are making that conversion its harder to project them usually. And thats why teams don’t overvalue them. Are their exceptions, sure of course there are. But by in large teams prefer to not reach for a rush linebacker because they know they can get a quality one much later in the draft. I think its pretty telling that so many rush LB’s are taken late or not at all, compare that to other positions like CB or OT where most starters (and almost all the great ones) are taken in the top 3 rounds.
This year’s draft is no exception, there are 15+ guys who you could project to be dominate pass rushers at the next level. Some will be DE’s, and some will be Rush LB’s. The Redskins could find an effective pass rusher later in the draft, while using one of their prize picks on a player that you can’t find later like say a running back. There are fewer quality running backs (esp. speed backs) than pass rushers in this draft class. What is a greater need a running back, where our top options are Ganther, Mason, and Cartwright? or a rush linebacker where our top options are Carter and Orakpo (both coming off 11 sack seasons), with Wilson behind them. I know your argument is Carter is 31 and we need to plan for the future. But Carter should have at least 2 more good years in the tank, if you want to draft depth then draft someone in the 4th or 5th round, not someone in the top 50. Hughes won’t see the field this season, and if he is that means most of the time Orakpo or Carter are sitting out (or injured). That doesn’t upgrade the Redskins pass rush at all, just gives them an expensive (in terms of what else you could have drafted) safety net.
And yes teams like the Pats and Steelers draft for the future, but there is a reason they can do that, and that’s because they already have talent on their roster. They don’t have the same glaring holes or needs that we do, so they can draft for depth and future. And I’m glad you brought up the Steelers, because their draft strategy has always amazed me. The Steelers ARE the 3-4, everyone knows that, they are Blitzburgh. Yet from the time Cowher took over till now (1992), 18 drafts the Steelers took only 2 OLB’s in the top 2 rounds (both in the 2nd), Woodley who has been great, and Alonzo Jackson who was a bust. They took other LB’s but always inside guys (who were usually pretty good, Brown, Kirkland, Bell ect). To me that is very telling, they knew that they could find quality pass rushers in the 3rd round or later and it worked, as they are best pass rushing team over the past 2 decades.
As for McKnight, I’ve stated my case about him having flaws in his game yet all you can respond with is he’s fast (which means what exactly?), and he is talented (despite not ever proving that). And the whole thing about talented coaches I really don’t understand. Laron Landry is "fast’ and ‘talented’ and Jerry Gray (a former all-pro) is considered a excellent defensive/defensive back coach and he is still struggling over 3 years later.
by Steve Shoup on Feb 17, 2010 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
It's a 2-back league now, you need both.
Gerhart in the 4th would be ok, but this year or next they have to get a speed option.
love the picks
but i am tired of every draft we end up drafting or sgning a terp now i know the school is local but they havent really panned out- Heyer nothing, Barnes- i hope. stop drafting people out of terp land
Heyer was a deep depth chart player forced to play from the git-go
because Vinnie never drafted other Heyer-types to develope …instead they sign broken down veterans and my bet is under Shanahan they will continue to do the same
Good Idea
Just not likely to happen. Trading out of the top 4 picks just doesn’t happen very often. Last time it happend was 04 during the infamous Manning “but I don’t want to be a Charger!” trade. The last time before that was 01 for Vick. In both of these cases the trade involved the #1 overall.
Also going against the Skins is that this is a good talent draft through out the first 2 rnds. No one stands out this year as a must have except Suh. We may get lucky and a team desperate for a QB will leap for one of the only 2. That’s what happened last year with the Jets and almost us.
The Skins have one other thing going for them this year, in that there is no cap. So potentially good teams may be willing to take on the higher salary and trade into the top 5.
Think the Eagles would
trade a Qb/pick to get Berry?
I wouldn't want any of the Eagles QB's,
But I’ll gladly swap first’s and get their 2nd and 6th this year in return.
Mcnabb is proven
Check the numbers vs any skins Qb in the last ten years, not even close. Eagles would never do it (division rival,duh) but he would be a gift via trade, or later picks, not #4, that pick is worth a little more than him (need young lineman)
Unless someone really wants Bradford
the trade just won’t happen. Teams aren’t willing to give up so much so that they can trade a guy who will be entitled to a huge bonus on top of a huge contract. The only players teams would be willing to make that kind of deal for would be franchise players, usually quarterbacks, since they are, after all, the most important position in the NFL. Therefore, unless someone behind us is DYING to get Bradford (that assumes he’s not off the board yet) and they don’t think he’ll fall any further than 5, then the most likely scenario is that no one is going to even make an offer for that trade. Until a rookie salary scale is created in the NFL (should happen in the next CBA), top-5 picks are almost worthless trade commodities. Besides, the #4 pick is important for a team with lots of money and lots of holes. If this upcoming year is going to be uncapped, then we can use it to shed BS contracts and front load the contract for whomever we draft
"One-on-one? You can't." -Gilbert Arenas
JC Bandwagon all day!
Completely agree
I think people have a misconception about how easy it is to trade down in the draft. You can’t just say trade down and expect it to happen. It’s not a bad idea, just not too realistic.
If this were the NBA, that'd be one thing
People are DYING to trade into the top-5 in that draft. A franchise player AND he’s only allowed to earn a specific sum of money? Thank you, sir!
But who knows? The combine might end up showcasing immense talents for many players, and teams might start thinking that there are multiple can’t-miss franchise-potential guys at the top of the draft. At that point, the calls should start coming in, especially from teams that know they over-achieved last year (there’s always a couple of them).
"One-on-one? You can't." -Gilbert Arenas
JC Bandwagon all day!
maybe
agreed, is there enough need out there for a team to want to jump to 4? hope so for the skins sake, i mean you can get a great guy at 4 (and pay him accordingly). But I think if possible late 1st round and early 2nd are prime spots for OL help and possibly a sleeper at QB. At least in this draft.
Akh’s Thoughts: Offseason tracks
http://www.hailredskins.com/?p=773
Compared to what I have seen on HH this guy is radical in what he would do to “improve” the roster. He does have some ideas on how to move players in and out of the roster through trades and increased number of draft picks.
I don’t agree with him in some instances such as acquiring Ben Hamilton and cutting Derrick Dockery. Hamilton did not perform that well in 2009 whereas Dockery didn’t do that bad.
Keep the #4 pick
Trading the number 4 pick is a cop-out. Take the pressure that comes along with the pick and make a mark for the future. If you guys want more picks talk about trading landry and cooley and drafting berry with the 4th pick
by mr.snyderhireme on Feb 13, 2010 12:16 AM EST reply actions
That's a cop-out?
It’s called business…..you have to find the absolute best value for your team….and if there is no one at 4 that you feel is worth the value of the contract they get……or somebody else is willing to mortgage their future like we have for years…..you have to do that. So the Patriots copped out last year by trading down like 4 times and picking up picks? Obviously their business model has shown much greater previous success than ours. I am so glad you are not in our front office!
Uncapped season
If terms are not met, this will be a free for all season for big money teams (skins, cowboys, etc.) How do you think that will affect the draft? If teams can keep the guys that they normally would have to release due to cap rules, than the free agent market will be thin. I think trading for more picks is the answer for the skins, Campbell will be more effective with Shanahan ground attack, go for OL help now!
I have already taken in account the uncapped season
The draft will have a lot more emphasis since other teams that are normally free agent happy will be forced to build through the draft.
by JeanBaptiste on Feb 17, 2010 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
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