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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Mark Schlereth Sheds Light on Shanahan's Ego & Why the Redskins Traded for McNabb

Sorry Skins fans, this is the farthest back Getty Images goes back for me.

I was able to spend a solid 10 minutes with the former Redskin, Mark Schlereth, who is doing a media tour promoting BeOnTheField.com - a Mars Company contest where the winner receives an all expenses paid trip for 4 to the Super Bowl (including celebrating on the field with the winning team). Simply buy select Mars products and enter the UPC code on the website to win. Heck of a prize. 

Anyway, I pinged the current ESPN analyst on Shahahan as a GM, Shanahan's ego, how did Shanahan not see that McNabb was a bad fit, Haynesworth, how much is Kyle Shanahan contributing in the game-calling, and the reason he did not stay with the Redskins in free agency. Enjoy. 

HogsHaven: Should I call you Mark or Stink?

"Either or. It doesn't matter to me."

Back in July, you said Shanahan was very aware of the reason he was out in Denver - the poor personnel decisions in the draft & free agency. Here we are one year into this and the Redskins burned 2 high draft picks for a QB that's out in 1-year & 3rd round pick for a banged up Tackle that will be a free agent in 2 weeks. Is he still a bad GM?

"It's a little bit of a different situation. He had some stability in Denver and he had good players, but he made bad draft choice after bad draft choice. And then he chased those bad draft choices with bad free agent moves. [The Redskins] are an organization that was still lacking some depth and legit, big time Quarterbacks. They tried to patch a hole, obviously. The jury is still out on those moves and how much Mike Shanahan plays in that and how much is on Bruce Allen and the owner."

Well, Warren Sapp said Bruce Allen is nothing more than a guy that plays golf with the alumni and works the salary cap and contracts.

Star-divide

"(laughing). If that's the case...I've known Mike for a very long time in regards to those personnel moves and there are a lot of things you kind of look at and scratch your head and I could go through tons of them that happened in Denver which made zero sense."

For example?

"Let's start with the draft. Ashley Lelie. Really? Deltha O'Neal, who played running back in college at Cal Berkley got switched to defensive back. We drafted him in the first round. Does that truly make sense? Guys like Willie Middlebrooks. You've never heard of them. [Willie was a] defensive back from the Univ. of Minnesota that never panned out. 1st round draft choice. George Foster -1st round draft choice, who was injured his last year in college with a broken wrist and really couldn't bend his wrist. A lot of people thought he'd be available in the 4th or 5th round and we took him with the 24th pick overall in the draft. I can go on and on and on.


And then free agent wise. Whether it was Daryl Gardener from the Miami Dolphins or a handful of other guys that really didn't pan out. A lot of poor moves in that regard. When you make poor draft choices, and that's the biggest thing, you're forced to chase those poor draft choices because if they don't pan out, in the free agent market you try to patch a hole. The problem being one bad choice makes you chase another guy and another guy. It makes you draft people and chase free agents out of position and overpay those guys. I think it's been a problem in Washington even before Mike ever got there."

There's ten years of game film on McNabb throwing these worm balls. How did Shanahan not see that he was a bad fit?

"OK, let me tell you. And this is endemic of all coaches. Don't just put this on Mike, you can put this on anybody. Donovan's biggest issue has been accuracy. He's always struggled over his career with being a very accurate QB. I can put on any game film this year of Donovan and there's six or seven balls a game where he throws them into the dirt where nobody has an opportunity [to make the catch]. Where you're like, "Really?" It's a 7-yard throw and you threw it four yards short in the dirt. How can that be? And, the problem with coaches in general is they really feel like they can cure or fix anybody.  From the inaccuracy, they'll say, "Oh, it's his footwork. Under my expert tutelage I'll get him to setup a different way.  I'll get his knees bent a little bit more. I'll get his weight distributed more evenly. And I'll fix this issue."

The problem comes under duress you revert back to schoolyard and bad habits. Anytime you got a little bit of stress or pressure, inevitably you revert back to what you've always been.  Coaches think they can fix people mechanically. It comes down to ego. They think they can fix a guy who's an absolute terd everywhere he's been and they think they can take that guy under their expert tutelage they're going to go play."

Like Jake Plummer?

"Like Jake Plummer. Like Albert Haynesworth.  Let's face it. It's an ego driven business. I always say: You think the egos are big in the locker room? Walk upstairs to the offices of the coaching staff, the head coaches, and the General Manager. They have the mentality, 'Oh, we can fix it. I see what's wrong,' and it's not that easy. Mike suffers from that like everyone."

How much of the offensive coordinating is Kyle doing versus Mike? You worked with Kubiak as a Coordinator in Denver, and as fans, we see the Head Coach's son as a coordinator and there's really no risk of him losing his job.

"Yea, I don't know if that's a great situation, but Mike always has his hands in it. Whether he is calling plays or Kyle is calling plays, the bottom line, and this is the way it was in Denver, those coaches put a game plan together, Mike will review it, add to it, subtract from it, say 'I like this. I don't like this.' He is intimately involved in the game planning and the execution of the game plan. Don't think it falls on Kyle. Nothing gets called on the football field on Sunday that hasn't been approved through Mike's desk in the course of the week."

What about being down 20 points early?

"It's school yard and you adjust on the fly. That's any coach."

How do you think Shanahan has handled the Haynesworth situation looking back?

"I think there's definitely mistakes that Mike made. Obviously, he let some of his frustrations get to him. There's no question about that. I understand the difficult situation and task that he faced. I mean, to see a guy with that much talent that has been productive in this league be like "I'm not going to do this," after you already paid him is incredibly frustrating. I just think taking that battle to the media and expressing that is never beneficial. You got to keep that stuff in house as much as you can. Fighting that battle is difficult."

Did Charley Casserly try to keep you or based on the horrible decline of the Redskins did you want to bail?

"The Skins basically told me they didn't want me. Understandably so. In 1993, I missed most of the season with Guillain-Barré syndrome. In 1994, I wasn't 100% healthy and it was Norv's first year.  Basically, they were moving in a different direction and they didn't really want me anymore."

Special thanks to Stink for taking the time. Everything he said about McNabb makes complete sense. He thought he could change his habits, and it's not possible. It has nothing to do with cardiovascular endurance, or learning the playbook, or the 2-minute drill...simply put, McNabb cannot run this offense.

I tried to get a Hogs story out of him, but he really didn't have any. They didn't prank him and Grimm was firm with him from the start.

Comment 114 comments  |  5 recs  | 

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I hate being right

Ok, that’s not true. But I do hate that I was right in this instance. This is why I wasn’t overly excited about the Shanny hire to begin with. Just because he’s an upgrade over what we had, doesn’t mean he’s any good. And I’d like to separate Shanny the GM from Shanny the coach, but we can’t. He chose it that way. Unfortunately, I think what we’re gonna find out in a few years is that, after all this, we STILL need a personnel guy.

by CJHutch on Dec 29, 2010 4:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

The reason in a few years will be a whole lot different though.

The reason now? Getting out of the NFC East’s basement, I know it’s cool to drink a couple beers in here once in a while, but not every season. The reason in a few Years? We’ll be contending every year, but won’t be able to get over that hump we’ll float around 9-11 wins and won’t be able to to get past the NFC Championship… Hopefully, I mean I feel like we’re heading the right direction regardless.

by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 29, 2010 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

That's just kool aid

Nothing will truly change until we get a competent front office in place.

I mean I feel like we’re heading the right direction regardless.

"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Dec 30, 2010 12:32 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I know "better off than we were" is not enough for you.

It is far from perfect, and we all know there have been questionable decisions and a couple of rather glaring mistakes. HOWEVER, I do believe the “culture” is changing, just the work ethic is different if nothing else, and that is huge. I am not saying Shanny is going to take us to the “promised land”, but I think he will make us better, and tougher. In two more years, if he does fail as a talent evaluator, maybe Snyder gives him the true GM ultimatum. At the very least, perhaps in a few years, we may once again be a franchise that both coaches and players WANT to be a part of.

by MagicHat on Dec 30, 2010 1:10 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

this isn't rocket science. it's not nuclear physics.

you can change the culture and install a competent front office at the same time.

"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Dec 30, 2010 11:31 PM EST up reply actions  

if this is not a competent front office then there never will be one .

lohaus #54

by lohaus#54 on Dec 31, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

what do you mean?

"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Jan 1, 2011 6:23 PM EST up reply actions  

what i mean is if bruce allen who always turned teams around and shanny as his coach cant make us winners then what coach and g.m. can ?

lohaus #54

by lohaus#54 on Jan 8, 2011 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed
I’d like to separate Shanny the GM from Shanny the coach, but we can’t

Pommylee

by Pommylee on Dec 29, 2010 6:59 PM EST up reply actions  

for the record...

me too….no question about it.

by MagicHat on Dec 30, 2010 1:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, at this point I'm up for that.

Why didn’t we get someone like Scott Pioli?

by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 30, 2010 1:25 AM EST up reply actions  

dan snyder wont share the credit unless the guy goes down on him

by les boulez bomber on Dec 30, 2010 4:57 AM EST up reply actions  

And says:

Look, Dan. No hands….

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Dec 30, 2010 9:08 AM EST up reply actions  

that you know this

has shocked me

SpottieOttieDopaliscious

by Rekka on Dec 30, 2010 10:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Easy now

It was just a guess. LOL

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Dec 30, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

we need an entire personnel department. schlereth said as much…when you cant draft young talent consistently, you are forced to over pay for players, and when you screw that up, you suck. …imho, when you dont screw up your free agency, you are only mediocre…which is pretty much our upside with this cast of characters running the organization.

by les boulez bomber on Dec 30, 2010 4:54 AM EST up reply actions  

and to balance things out…on a positive note…shanallen doesnt tolerate too much drama for long (a season or so)…we dont have players fighting amongst themselves in clubs during the season, publicly arrested, co-building modelling/other careers, public cancers, etc

by les boulez bomber on Dec 30, 2010 5:01 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm looking for a quiet,

football focused season next year without the McNabb and Haynesworth drama. That alone would be a plus.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Dec 30, 2010 9:11 AM EST up reply actions  

yep

No more McNabb and Haynesworth drama. Next year it’ll be Plaxico

by CJHutch on Dec 30, 2010 8:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Who the hell are half of these players he picked in the 1st round...

(Gulp) you better get this right the first time Shanahan, different environment. He better learn from his drafting mistakes like oh you know NOT taking guys that are injured in college or drafting a guy in one position and switching him to another. I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again as a Shanahan supporter this Offseason will make or break Mike Shanahan in Washington.

by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 29, 2010 1:41 PM EST reply actions  

The Deltha O'neal thing does seem unreal.

But to Shanahan’s credit O’neal was an all-pro and pro bowler at CB in just his second season. Then Shanny tried to convert him to WR in 2003. Then made an awful trade sending O’Neal, 1st Round Pick (24th), and 4th round pick for Cincy’s 17th overall pick. The Broncos got DJ Williams and the Rams got the 24th pick from Cincy and got Steven Jackson. O’neal was a a pro bowler again in ’05.

by Parks Smith on Dec 29, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Was the mountain air getting to his head?

What a horrible trade. Hopefully he’s learned from all of this. Except for the 2007 Draft, the last 3 years in Denver he actually drafted fairly well, but that’s just the Draft. Regardless this is still his most important offseason to Date. We have so many holes to fill.

Let’s see (these are from most important to least)…
Defensive Line (Nose Tackle, Defensive End)
Offensive Line (Guard,Center)
Quarterback
Wide Receiver (Moss and Armstrong would be amazing Role Players, but can we get a true #1 Receiver for once?)
Outside Linebacker (Having someone OTHER than Orakpo rushing the passer)
Insider Linebacker (Fletcher is going to be 36 next year, McIntosh was dreadful this year tackling and coverage wise)
Free Safety (Two Words: Missed Tackles. Was Kareem Moore oiled down before every game this year???)
Cornerback assuming Mr. Rogers leaves the Neighborhood.

by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 29, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with that but I would flip Oline and Dline

Of course of all of this could change before the draft with Free Agency.

by Parks Smith on Dec 29, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Those can go either way.

I wouldn’t really label them as a clear cut #1 and #2. I mean on one hand you can argue ‘do you continue letting RBs run all over you and QBs having all day in the Pocket so they can put up 500 yards of offense?’ On the other hand you can argue ‘do you keep letting your QB get pressured and having an inconsistent Running game?’ I would label those needs as 1A and 1B

by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 29, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

I agree it depends on how the draft shakes out until the Skins pick. Then go with the best player at either position.

by smith1468 on Dec 29, 2010 8:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I realize that.

We’re going QB in the 1st or 2nd Round. Shanahan may take a chance on a guy like Jake Locker or Kyle may like a guy like Christian Ponder, Pat Devlin, or Rick Stanzi. Either way after that we have to worry about the O-Line and D-Line. I say we take a Guard after QB in the 1st Round.

by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 29, 2010 8:41 PM EST up reply actions  

justy grab the most accurate passer in the round he is projected and try to teach him how to read defenses and manage the game.

by les boulez bomber on Dec 30, 2010 5:06 AM EST up reply actions  

totally agree

Though I’d rather get a center

by CJHutch on Dec 30, 2010 8:25 PM EST up reply actions  

agree but i lean to the O line because a qb takes the most time to develop and season and that cant begin until you can protect him

by les boulez bomber on Dec 30, 2010 5:05 AM EST up reply actions  

It takes an OLine a long time to gel,too,

but if you don’t do that first, you end up with a busted QB and have to start all over again. The QB is the cart; the OLine is the horse. Hopefully we started down that path this year with T-Williams. Need I mention Ramsey, Shuler, etc. Let’s let our Hoggs Nouveau find our new Rippon.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Dec 30, 2010 9:16 AM EST up reply actions  

+1

I will be incredible demoralized if we draft a high round QB before we have an o-line to protect him.

by RobtheRedskin on Dec 30, 2010 9:45 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

McNabb Question

I was just looking back at the trade we made for McNabb- it was the 2nd rounder from last year and a 3/4 depending on certain conditions. The conditions that brought it from a 4th to a 3rd were:
McNabb goes to the Pro Bowl OR
McNabb plays 70% of his snaps OR
Redskins win nine or more games

Obviously the first and third are not happening. Is he on track to have played 70% of snaps? Are we going to do whatever possible to run as many plays as we can on offense against the Giants to ensure he doesn’t reach that mark? (Highly doubtful, but these are the Redskins) If I remember correctly if we trade only a 4th rounder for McNabb it means that we get other picks back from the Saints

by 8vechkin on Dec 29, 2010 2:12 PM EST reply actions  

It doesn't matter b/c the Saints would then get our 3rd round pick.

So it not an issue either way, either NO gets our 3rd and Eagles get our 4th or vice versa.

by Parks Smith on Dec 29, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

It's better if the Eagles get our

2nd and 4th round picks which they will. New Orleans will receive our 3rd Round pick and we will receive a 5th Round pick from New Orleans. Had the Eagles gotten our 4th Round Pick they would have only given us a 6th Round Pick. Just trying to find positives in this mess.

by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 29, 2010 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

thats how i understand it…if mcnabb does not play 70% of the snaps, then we get a 5th rounder instead of a 6th rounder

by les boulez bomber on Dec 30, 2010 5:09 AM EST up reply actions  

we lose trade value in mcnabb but we get to see what grossman can do for us

by les boulez bomber on Dec 30, 2010 5:10 AM EST up reply actions  

grossman bahhhhhhhhhhhh. oh christ .

lohaus #54

by lohaus#54 on Dec 31, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Good post. Let’s look at 2010:

Trent Williams (1st Rnd) — Great pick.
Donovan McNabb (2nd Rnd) — Bad move.
Jeremy Jarmon (3rd Rnd) — This was a Cerrato move.
Perry Riley (4th Rnd) — Made some bonehead plays on special teams but he’s young. Time will tell.

5th Round pick was traded to the Rams for Adam Carriker + the Rams’ 6th Round pick. Good move.

Dennis Morris, Terrence Austin, Eric Cook, Selvish Capers — Morris was traded to the Rams for Hal Morris. As for the other three, too early to say.

by hsoup on Dec 29, 2010 3:11 PM EST reply actions  

armstrong and banks have a starting position on this team next year.

definitely good picks…

or perhaps they just want it more over the aging vets…

by Ralf E Chubbs on Dec 29, 2010 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

torain helped me win my fantasy football keeper league championship!

along with shady mccoy, hakeem nicks, jason witten and felix jones…

i hate that playing Fantasy Football eff’s with your loyalties!

by Ralf E Chubbs on Dec 30, 2010 5:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, another guy we got without a draft pick. That also worked out.

by hsoup on Dec 29, 2010 11:10 PM EST up reply actions  

absolutely. the undrafted free agent. that worked out.

by hsoup on Dec 29, 2010 11:09 PM EST up reply actions  

defintiely counts in his department…and they did all of this while putting us in a better draft position.

it is hard to be objective when teams like the bucs started 10 rookies this season and will probably win 10 games

what is not hard to be objective is the impossibility of winning if you cant control the line of scrimmage and we need starters nearly across the board on both the offensive and defensive lines and have no franchise qb on the horizon.

hopefully they can sort that out over the next two years. all other positions get a lot easier to fill once you have good lines and a decent qb

by les boulez bomber on Dec 30, 2010 5:14 AM EST up reply actions  

here are some of my thoughts-

if i were a redskins fan

and we traded 2012 picks… and didn’t come out on top of the trade… i would swear allegiance to the ravens…

you guys need to get younger… and better at drafting…

hopefully bruce allen (aka mike shanahan) will be better than vinny.

on the bright side, i like ryan torain… if he stays healthy…

santana wants to come back…

cut ties with clinton (too much money)

trade fat al for as much as you can.

thats it for now.

chubbs out

by Ralf E Chubbs on Dec 29, 2010 7:22 PM EST up reply actions  

O-line .... DRAFT

Like to see this happen ……also keep away from signing high priced free agents

by juanpan on Dec 29, 2010 4:23 PM EST reply actions  

McNabb

As far as I can discover, McNabb only played against a Shanahan-coached Denver team once, in 2005. The stats weren’t great – 12 for 34 – but he did throw for three touchdowns, including a 91-yarder to Terrell Owens. Maybe that’s what Shanahan remembered.

Mickey C

by Mickey C on Dec 29, 2010 4:24 PM EST reply actions  

I find Schlereth's theory more likely
the problem with coaches in general is they really feel like they can cure or fix anybody

"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Dec 30, 2010 12:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Great.

I feel sooooo much better about the future direction now. Awesome.

BTW – Great interview. I’m not about to kill the messenger.

what you've just said... is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

by gopens44 on Dec 29, 2010 4:41 PM EST reply actions  

I really don't pay any attention to the Schlereths of the world

He’ an ESPN jock who has never coached an NFL team or been in the position to make team decisions. All he knows about is how to play the O-Line. So if he has something to say about the Skins O-Line I will pay attention. Otherwise, there isn’t much there to read. Blah blah blah. Might as well sit in the bar and listen to the bar drunk.

by hambonejackson on Dec 29, 2010 5:11 PM EST reply actions  

Are you forgetting

he played for Shanahan and saw first hand how things went down for a number of years? Schlereth is actually one of the better, more knowledgeable commentators around and doesn’t get caught up with the hype like a lot of the other frat boys working for the networks. So I"m sayin I disagree.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Dec 30, 2010 9:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Very nice Kevin. Well done. Thanks.

The Once and Future King

by FlaGators on Dec 29, 2010 6:00 PM EST reply actions  

being a Denver fan

Denver couild been a Stong playoff team in the 2000’S but bad Drafts M CLATETT p torvell J Johnson BAD FA D CARTER L LETT on and on shanny needs a guy like me a littie back storty in 2001 i told him to beat KC u double Tony G WASH 1 shouild keat a 4-3 system 2 SHANNY has to change like gibbs did after 04

okay i have cerebral palsy arthris and chronic fatigue as well i have a great life and loveing folks some days are better than other days i got a make-a-wish in 2001 and saw my favorite team the broncos it was the trip of a lifetime i wish everyone couild have gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that okay but i bleed organ and bule for my mnr fans but i bleed orange and blue denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos for stampede bule thanks shvd98z24 real name jeremy woodard nettleton high class of 02 yes i am a raider

by j-man on Dec 29, 2010 6:56 PM EST reply actions  

Oooooh, Got you. No worries about the spelling and grammar, I understand.

My interpretation from what he said: As a Denver fan he thought they could be year-to-year playoff contenders, but bad drafts and bad Free Agent signings never got them over the hump and ultimately Shanahan never learned from his mistakes. He told Shanahan back in 2001 that in order to beat Kansas City the Broncos needed to double team Tony Gonzalez on defense. The Redskins should have stuck with the 4-3. Shanahan should readjust his original plan just like Gibbs did after Gibbs’ 6-10 season in 2004.

by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 29, 2010 8:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm worried about the beer supply. After this case, and the other case, there's only one case left- Barney Gumble

by CptChaosSidekick on Dec 29, 2010 8:45 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Thanks for reminding me

I had completely forgotten about that whole Clarrett debacle. Oh goodness, please will someone tell me that Shanny has wizened up since then?!?!?!?!?

what you've just said... is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

by gopens44 on Dec 30, 2010 10:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Terps

u are right

okay i have cerebral palsy arthris and chronic fatigue as well i have a great life and loveing folks some days are better than other days i got a make-a-wish in 2001 and saw my favorite team the broncos it was the trip of a lifetime i wish everyone couild have gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that okay but i bleed organ and bule for my mnr fans but i bleed orange and blue denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos for stampede bule thanks shvd98z24 real name jeremy woodard nettleton high class of 02 yes i am a raider

by j-man on Dec 29, 2010 8:36 PM EST reply actions  

Thanks for your comments,

the translation, the foot insertion, and the somewhat graceful exit. Haha

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Dec 30, 2010 10:04 AM EST up reply actions  

It's a little unfair to second guess Shanahan/Allen

on the McNabb trade. At the time, almost everybody thought he was terrific and would be a great stopgap QB for us, probably giving us solid quarterbacking for two to four years, until a rookie was ready to take over. It didn’t work out quite like that, for reasons unknown.

by Donnio1234 on Dec 29, 2010 8:58 PM EST reply actions  

Agreed, where are all the people who said they couldn’t believe the eagles would do this deal, trading a pro bowl QB to their division rival. There were many more voices saying the skins got the better of the deal. I have to say my first instinct was that it was a bad deal. McNabb’s skills never struck me as better than JC’s, though McNabb will occasionally make a ridiculously good play out of nothing. He’s just not able to do that often enough to compensate for the balls thrown in the ground. There’s no doubt the right team could win a superbowl with McNabb but we needed to keep JC another year or two, rebuild the line and wait for the right opportunity to draft a legit top-tier QB.

by hsoup on Dec 29, 2010 11:21 PM EST up reply actions  

false false false

“almost everybody” is a blanket generalization that is largely unprovable.

the McNabb trade was dumb at the time, me and many others illustrated why, and it played out even worse than I imagined.

It is not hindsight in any way.

"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Dec 30, 2010 12:27 AM EST up reply actions  

You are right - some did knock the deal

But my memory is that most people on HH were at least hopeful. And the debate was how long he would last, thinking that if it was “one and done” (because he wanted to go somewhere else), it would be a bad trade. I think most (55-60%?) thought McNabb was a very good QB, although a bit erratic and not always the most accurate. Turns out that the naysayers were a little bit more right than the optimists, although it’s not really a slam dunk. Donovan threw for a lot of yards (a team record?), the offense improved despite a line that was in flux (only now starting to gel), a relative dearth of receivers and the loss of Portis. Given the numbers and relative success, it’s a little surprising that Shanahan took such drastic action. Apparently he and Kyle just weren’t happy about how Donovan ran the offense. I’d suggest that the deal didn’t work out as well as the team hoped, but it wasn’t some huge, dumb mistake.

by Donnio1234 on Dec 30, 2010 6:15 PM EST up reply actions  

?
it wasn’t some huge, dumb mistake.

it was a colossal waste of resources. that is a dumb, huge mistake.

it’s pretty much the definition of a dumb, huge mistake

"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Dec 30, 2010 11:33 PM EST up reply actions  

thats not how i remember it but it seems you believe “no one could have predicted it” or seen it coming or whatever. lol inaccurate qbs remain inconsistent hair pullers. they are cancer to a fan. the only thing worse is a team that will not surround a good qb with a line to protect him

going forward, i hope you recognize the lesson in the mcnabb mess and bitch everytime they acquire an inaccurate “qb of the future” and have hope if they draft one who is consistently accurate

check this out…absolutely amazing…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVoqA-LKGb4

by les boulez bomber on Dec 30, 2010 5:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Wow!

I likee. That was an amazing vid. Did anyone see the commercial/video that had Cooley, Jason and a bunch of other pros telling us to “pick me” for their fantasy team? They go and do some amazing tricks to compel us to pick them. Jason sends two receivers long, throws a ball high to them, then throws another, hitting it in such a way as they bounce apart with each receiver catching a ball. Makes you wonder….

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Dec 30, 2010 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

I felt the same

I was optimistic that McNabb would be a huge upgrade for us. Turns out, JC is probably about as good a QB as McNabb, just worked in different environments. Some things we found out:

- JC was as much a victim of the entire organization as he was of bad OLine play. It must be a breath of fresh air for him to be in Oakland.

- The knock on JC was his lack of leadership. At first I thought D-Mac was all over that and created a positive vibe about the offense. But he simply didn’t produce (obviously OLine didn’t help much). The way he looked after each 3 and out this year was disappointing. Didn’t go over to Shanny and try to discuss what went wrong or what they were going to do next. Just sat on the bench with a dopey grin half the time – poor leadership there. Never got fired up about anything.

- I thought we’d see McNabb bring us a win or two on 4th qtr TD drives. Didn’t happen. And he had probably half a dozen tries. Turns out he would have succeeded had Gano been more consistent, but Jason had Suisham, so it all evens out.

-My brother-in-law is a Philly fan (ouch that hurts to say that), but he said the very same thing about McNabb, he doesn’t get fired up and chokes. This somehow generally gets translated into “he’s a class guy.” That and the knack he has for pulling out his “Pro-style Worm Guillotine” about 1 out of every 3 passes. Besides the A-hole Philly fans, for whom no-one will be good enough, most Philly fans were shaking their heads and laughing at the move he made to come to DC.

- I would like to see a comparison of Cambell’s stats (this year and last year) and D-Mac’s for the same period. I bet it wins the argument as to which comes first – a hotshot QB or a solid OLine. JC improved and D-Mac went downhill this year. I will say D-Mac made more downfield throws and showed more maneuverability in the pocket than Jason, but in the end we are still averaging less than 20 pts per game. And the Raiders have improved under Jason.

So, as much as I had Kool-aid-fueled hopes for this year, I’m waiting for us to win another Offseason Trophy. What I’m most pleased about this season is that the team didn’t quit, with the possible exception of the home Philly game – one of the worst experiences I’ve ever had as a fan.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Dec 30, 2010 10:30 AM EST up reply actions  

WRONG

I hated it from day one. I want CORE REDSKINS. I want to watch guys grow up and flourish.

by brettpedigo on Dec 30, 2010 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Shanny does have a poor track record

But got to keep hoping. Great interview.

I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.

by Topher Doll on Dec 30, 2010 12:31 AM EST reply actions  

So basically Schlereth confirmed all my biggest criticisms and concerns about VP Shanahan

He has a poor track record in the front office and his biggest move last off season was an abject failure.

Whatcha got in 2011, Shanny?

"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Dec 30, 2010 12:31 AM EST reply actions  

It's a shame because if you look at the tape, you could easily find what

made Donovan successful too. He needs a swing-pass, shovel-pass, over-the-middle dump off game and just ONE deep threat (Even Todd Pinkston worked for a moment.). Obviously the Shanahans failed to sign a Brian Westbrook type player. It’s a shame, Brian was a available to at least be there to help settle Donovan down. The guy has HOF numbers. This one ain’t the QB’s fault. You don’t have a career year and a then lose it all the next at 34 and you still posses a canon for an arm. I feel bad for the skins. Jon Gruden is the one but he may not want to come to DC.

GO VICK! (And Kolb too if necessary!)

by Lombardi and Broad on Dec 30, 2010 4:31 AM EST reply actions  

and that, my fine feathered friend, is what scares the hell out of me.....

it is too much in sync with stink’s interview. He takes a ten year pro, with 6 (I believe) pro-bowl appearances, adds him to an offense that has no real direction, and makes no effort to play to his strengths……..but its all in how you spin it, I guess

by MagicHat on Dec 30, 2010 5:51 AM EST up reply actions  

I loved the NFC East from 1990-1993

All 4 teams were a threat to win it all. Only my team did not win a Super Bowl during those years (Randall got hurt and that was the difference.). Andy Reid has gotten fat off of poor Redskin and Cowboy teams. Only the Giants have been consistent. I liked it better when you could not tell which team was the dominant team. Come on skins! Get it together.

GO VICK! (And Kolb too if necessary!)

by Lombardi and Broad on Dec 30, 2010 7:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, JimmyK wrote multiple articles how Westbrook was done..his knees were shot, the Skins shouldn’t take him. Damn…he whiffed on that one.

Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.

by Kevin Ewoldt on Dec 30, 2010 9:55 AM EST up reply actions  

the phil eagles have started three qbs in the past decade or so…mcnabb kolb and vick. vick is the best qb and they are the best team with him and might win it all this year. but they have all looked good…because philly is committed to having good lines…draft history (blockers on the line)
09- tight end, tackle, guard
08- guard, guard, tackle
07- tight end
06- tackle, guard
05- tackle, guard, tackle
04- tackle, tackle, guard, center
03- tight end, guard

they basically draft two linemen every year to preserve their line play


their record-
2010- prob 11-5 if not 10-6
2009- 11-5
2008- 9-6
2007- 8-8
2006- 10-6
2005- 6-10
2004- 13-3

total- 68-44 or 67-43 with mcnabb who has never been consistently accurate
five (of 8) playoff appearances
a super bowl appearance
and a bunch of division titles and championship games

during that time, they also drafted 10 defesive linemen…a little over one per year

so in the past 8 years philly drafts 18 offensive linemen/tight ends and 10 defensive linemen with great team success nearly every year

we on the other hand drafted 8 offensive linemen/tight ends and 4 defensive linemen and won 10 games once

football is about controlling the line of scrimmage first and foremost…things tend to fall into place in the other positions if you can do that successfully…

by les boulez bomber on Dec 30, 2010 5:52 AM EST reply actions  

ps- source…nfl.com for some reason they still have not updated their website for the 2010 draft. hopefully, last years effort to draft linemen is not just emergency surgery and one that will carry on throughout the shenallen tenure. then i might have more reason to hope!

by les boulez bomber on Dec 30, 2010 5:55 AM EST reply actions  

fyi- new england over the same period…
16 offensive linemen and 11 defensive linemen (and they play with only 3 D linemen!)

by les boulez bomber on Dec 30, 2010 6:00 AM EST reply actions  

i m not going to do this exercise for every team, but do one and see…i would be SHOCKED! if the teams that have drafted 15 offensive and 10 defensive linemen over this period were not the consistently better teams and the ones who did not were not.

by les boulez bomber on Dec 30, 2010 6:09 AM EST reply actions  

Add the Ravens to that

I believe their OLine/DLine draft stats parallel New England’s. Pittsburgh has been the same, but 3 or 4 years ago the neglected their OLine for just one or two years, and you can see how it affected them down the road. They are still a good team, obviously, but their QB was able to pull out many times a game, as opposed to his personal life.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Dec 30, 2010 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

baltimore drafted 15 offensive linemen during the same period

by les boulez bomber on Dec 30, 2010 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

And Oher

was at least 1 first rounder.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Dec 30, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

just like i posted over at BGN...

Great teams have great Offensive/Def Lines…

we’ve had a stable O, D line for years- up until last year.

i think this is what will hold us back this year… Vick getting hit too much/having to do too much, not enough QB pressure.

by Ralf E Chubbs on Dec 30, 2010 9:44 AM EST reply actions  

another reason for me to dislike Norv Turner

Brilliant move Norv – let an excellent OL go to another team.

by aFan4Life on Dec 31, 2010 9:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Brandon Lloyd dropped the "F word" on us

and the Bears and SF. I guess he had a good year.

by Donnio1234 on Dec 30, 2010 6:34 PM EST reply actions  

How come the Redskins never build from the draft, how come we can never follow the path of other teams who has a knack for success, it seems the organization ‘bucks’ the trend and craps out all the time!

by Big Spoon on Dec 30, 2010 11:39 PM EST reply actions  

Years ago, we used to build from the draft

Then came this guy named Daniel Snyder…

The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button

by Skins Fan '77 on Dec 31, 2010 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh you mean the Late 1990s

when we were realizing that was the way to go to build a team again and we won the division in 1999, you know then Snyder happened.

by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 31, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow.....

Many Many moons ago……smh!

by Big Spoon on Dec 31, 2010 9:57 PM EST up reply actions  

FTW

How come we’re stuck in the 20th CENTURY? We as fans are always sound like broken records making statements like we’ll be get better in about 2-3 yrs!

by Big Spoon on Dec 31, 2010 9:59 PM EST reply actions  

Mike Shanahan's recent drafts

Shanahan’s early drafts were certainly legendary (in a bad way). The only multiple pro-bowlers he netted were MLB Al Wilson and a guy called Clinton Portis. But in reason years he was pretty good: Cutler (1st round), LT Ryan Clady (1st), Eddie Royal (2nd — no one heard of him and he almost got 1000 yards as a rookie; someone did the homework), DE/OLB Elvis Dumervil (4th), Brandon Marshall (4th), TE Tony Scheffler (2nd), Ryan Torrain (5th?). I suspect quite a few of these will get into multiple pro-bowls. Some of the credit probably should go to ex-Denver personnel guys Goodman father and son. When McDaniels took over, the first evil act he perpetrated was to oust the Goodmans (before he even got rid of Cutler). The rest is history.

What Shanahan the father really did poorly was to draft on the defensive side. The 2007 draft (2 DEs in the first two rounds, both busts) really did him in. Although those were drafted to fit into Jim Bates’ system, so Bates had input; also, almost every 1st round DT/DE that year turned out to be busts. It is a crap-shoot. Nevertheless, I thought Shanahan should not be the guy to build a defense in Denver. At least now he has Jim Haslett’s input in that category.

The 2007 2nd round DE is now playing for Tampa Bay. I always wondered if his conversion to strict Islam was responsible for his sent to the dog-house. He needed to bulk up to begin with, and then he decided to fast on football days to observe Ramadan.

I’m not impressed with his son as OC. Kyle Shanahan gives up on the run so quickly. Mike should really talk some sense into him this off-season.

by formerbroncosfan on Dec 31, 2010 10:08 PM EST reply actions  

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