I Swear to God
If one person looks at that 30 points put up today and creates a FANPOST praising Grossman or Shanahan and saying he is the future I am going to scream and probably tear my eyes out of my head so I no longer have to read this nonsense.
Also I saw some people got sucked in by the Shanahan press conference saying he wanted to evaluate the QB's.
He had 11 years to evaluate McNabb and chose to trade away our draft future for him and now we have given up 2nd and 3rd Rd picks in consecutive years for a 1 yr QB rental for a losing season.
This is not proof that Shanahan is right to bench him, all it proves is that Personel decisions should be taken off Shanahan right now, his first moves in the Personell area have been complete disasters.
Dennis Morris with our 2nd pick in the draft (admittedly round five)
McNabb for 2010 pick 37 and 2011 pick 7ish
Jamaal Brown for pick 90ish
The geriatric RB platoon in Training Camp
Giving away Campbell for nothing when we could ahve kept him during a re-build.
But pointing out individual mistakes is not the point, the problem is more that there is a attitude of win now, we are one step away at Redskins park that is certain to doom us for a decade. Listen to Ted Leonis speak sometime, that is how the skins should be run.
WE are a terrible terrible terrible team, if I see that Fan Confidence poll rise this week I don't know how I will cope with knowledge that such idiocy lives in our fanbase. We are an awful team, we need to re-build but we have a coach who spent a decade refusing to re-build in Denver and has shown no inclination to do it here.
WE ARE SCREWED
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You are screwed
I dont know how you cope with yourself. Why dont you go find a team you actually LIKE, and be a fan of that team.
the problem is I love this team
thats what makes it so painful
You can love the team and not love the way it is run
Or is that too much for your mind to comprehend
Pommylee
It's tought to find a fan more committed than Lee
He follows the Redskins closer than 95% of the people I know and he’s in Australia, do your homework alpha..
True in a way
that loss was unbelievable
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
Shanahan has done a terrible job
But the question is, what to do now? Should Snyder fire Shanahan? I would if I could get Bill Cowher, but many argue that he should be given another year. Is he on the right track? MS and Bruce say they have a plan. Next year is supposed to be great for free agency, and the team is in good shape moneywise because of being so cheap this year. Get a top QB in the draft, and a NT from the draft or FA (if they don’t dump the goofy 3-4), then add some D-line, a top WR and an O-lineman (I estimate that the O-line, RB and WR are all only one player away from respectability because of Torain and Armstrong, CP and Moss). The very closeness of games suggests to me that the Skins are not that far from being competitive. I’d guess pretty close to a winning season.
Donnio my man
I always respect your posts because you think them through and you make honest assessments and you show respect to other posters
but respectfully, this post is symptomatic of the problem
FA is not the answer, teams know their own players better than anyone, if teams ahve a good QB they will pay him right, they wont let him walk, so where do we get this FA QB.
Moss is in decline, Armstrong would be 4th option at best on the top teams int he league, Torain a back up at best on the good teams. The O-Line is TWill and a bunch of hacks and old injury prone vets.
We are not close dude, we are miles away. The patriots are young, contending and have 3 picks in the top 33 next year as well another 3 before the 4th round. That is how you build a team, not with FA’s but by committing to the draft and long term planning.
BUT we refuse to do it, because we overestimate our own talent.
Other than Orakpo, Landry and maybe in a year or 2 T Williams, we do not have any players who would be guaranteed starters on the top teams in the NFL. Carlos Rogers would start for most teams, but not be guaranteed a start witht he Pats or Steelers.
Whereas those top teams have over a dozen players who would be walk up starters for us.
That is the problem right there
Pommylee
Those top teams
didn’t draft every starter on those teams. They used FA to get started. You’re overexaggerating, calm down
the problem with FA and the Redskins
is that we sign people based on hype and not on good scouting and then we sign them for huge guaranteed money so it’s hard to get rid of them.
If we’re going to sign some FAs then make a contract with a reasonable base pay and then loaded with incentives. For example, if we sign a WR then make the base pay that of an ordinary WR but then give extra pay per catch and TD so that they can make some huge money of they perform.
I have nothing against players make big money – I just want them to be worth the money.
I'd argue the opposite
The good teams build a core and leadership and then add FAs that fit into the puzzle.
not vice verse
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Agree with Tuck there....
Take a deep breath Lee, Yes, it’s ugly…..it’s real ugly. Don’t throw in the towel yet. I don’t like the way a lot of things have been handled (to out it mildly) BUT, I can see a possible method to the madness…..this offseason will show a lot. Mc Nabb turned out to be a huge mistake, but I agree with the benching…with our OL he is one play away from a career ending injury, then we are even more fucked than we are now….yes we are miles away, but I don’t think it is as many miles as you think right now. The Patriots and Steelers? Really? ho many Superbowls have they participated in since the last time we we in one? 6? 7?…when was the last time one, if not both were in the top 5 in their conference? Over all we are old this year, but it is just guys filling spots. We have more exiting young players right now than we have had in a while. Draft picks be damned, I hope we finish strong, get some egos out of the way and see what happens if Shannahan is actually allowed to run the team. Once some these big name players are out of the way the media will have to back off a little…..maybe buy into the system.
we are a long, long way from being good
but I bet you won’t hear the term “rebuilding” from the organization and the “win now” mentality will continue to permeate the organization.
Pommylee I agree
I don’t think anyone in their right minds would start on the Sexy Man’s band wagon right now. Nor do I think that anyone would be right in advocating Mike’s ability to make great decisions in the draft.
However, I do wish to point out this one small fact. Mr. Snyder is a business man, first and foremost. In the ‘business world’, the tendancy is to ‘look to this "quarter’s earnings" ‘. Because of his background, he appears to think that he can ’fix’ something that is ‘wrong’ with any business that he is involved with by looking at ‘the next quarter’s earnings’. Basically, he’s hadicapped in his venture with this team because of a lifetime of ‘doing business’.
He, and the Redskins fans, are short-termed in their thinking. Everybody wants to ‘win now’. Thus, the debaucle with many high-priced veterans during the last ten years of Big Dan’s ownership.
My big question to everyone here, is how much patience do we have? Many folks scream about bringing in young players, rebuilding, retooling, and just re-doing the whole team from the ground up. Now, that sounds really cool. How many of us are Really Willing to wait 4 or 5 years for that to happen?
I know that I am. What could be the downside? To see our team woefully beaten by the likes of, well, teams that are winless? (See the Rams and Detroit via google during the last three years). We, as fans, have suffered through many losing seasons lately, and we in all likelihood will suffer through some more.
Can we make a change in our perceptions,and not ask for a miracle ‘right now’? Can we just get behind the office that is in charge right now and ‘back them up’?
Trust in the long view, Mr. Snyder. After all, if you had done that eleven years ago, we’d have had a championship team by now.
I might be drunk.....
but that might be the best post that have seen from you so far. I am not on bandwagon for any QB on our team right now…but I am glad we are starting Grossman. Show me the upside for playing Mc Nabb. Downside is he gets seriously hurt…I would probably rather have Grossman start next year and spend our picks elsewhere than pick up Cam Newton (sorry Tiller, just doesn’t stick with me). Bad decisions have been made….and some good ones have been made as well. Regardless of what we have seen/heard through the media, looking through that I see some positives, my personal jury is out on Brown, many people wanted to give DT and MK so many chances (its takes two to three years for WR to really step up) but AA has been making some big plays already…….I am not on the Fire the Coach before the first season is over bandwagon either…cheers
Actually Magic
I’m more of a Mallett guy. Always have been. He is my #1 choice if we go QB. I’m just afraid that Shanny is in love with Locker.
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
Tiller - how do you rate the O-line?
How much do we still need?
Two Guards and a Center.
In that order.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 20, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
We still need a lot
but this is not the best draft to get it in.
It’s really fair to say that the ONLY position we are set at for years to come is LT. I do think Brown has played much better in the seconf half of the season, but by no means is he protected. I believe, if he regains his old form, he can give us 3-4 more good years. I do think Licht has come along as the season has progressed, but I feel his best position may be C. Either way, Rabach(who is by far our worst linemen) is not cutting it at C.
I would say we need to get a young G in the draft if at all possible, and preferably one that can contribute immediatly. I also hope we can pick up a key piece in FA as well. My other wish is that one of the guys already on our roster(Cook or Capers, or even Heyer) can step up, and take over one of the G positions, or in the case of Cook, maybe C.
Are we good on the O-Line, no. Do we have some youth and potential to develope, yes. This part I like.
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
I agree with Tiller which is basically what a number of draft prospect evaluators are saying that the 2011 draft of OL is weak. Rather than going for a guard or center, the team should take the best OL available in the first or second round.
“2010 Tackle Rankings – ”http://www.draftinsider.net/rankings/2010/T" target="_blank">http://www.draftinsider.net/rankings/2010/T
Underrated is how scouts are characterizing the upcoming class of offensive tackle prospects. There are a number of top pass blockers that need to improve their skill as run blockers. The top nine players on this list have starting potential at the next level. (updated: December 2010)
Rank Rnd Name School Year
1 1st Tyron Smith USC 3Jr
2 1st Derek Sherrod Mississippi State 4Sr
3 1st Anthony Castonzo Boston College 4Sr
4 1-2 Gabe Carimi Wisconsin 5Sr
5 2nd Nate Solder Colorado 5Sr
6 2nd Matt Reynolds BYU 4Jr
7 2nd Nate Potter Boise State 3Jr
8 2nd Jake Olson Central Michigan 3So
9 2nd Jason Pinkston Pittsburgh 5Sr"
Since free agency occurs before the draft and it is near impossible to get a healthy OT of starting quality, the Team should look to free agency to get a guard or center (maybe both). This would narrow down the needs list and make better options available for the draft. The defensive line should be the second draft priority. By the time the draft ends the team might have more than 7 draft picks.
by Jefferson1935 on Dec 20, 2010 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
IDK about best avaliable OL in the 1st
I could see maybe in the second, but I don’t see there being a snowballs chance in hell, unless we pull some magic trade back scenerio, that we go O-Linemen in the 1st.
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
isn't this draft class supposed to be deep in QBs?
I thought I read that somewhere.
If not QBs then what is it deep in? So wouldn’t it be smart to take advantage of whatever the draft is deep in? It’s not like we don’t have needs virtually everywhere…except TE and SS.
It's not very deep at WR
and we need one pretty bad, which is why I advocated us taking one early. This before all the McNabb drama of course.
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
yeah, we have been hurting at WR for years
I still think Moss could be a very effective #2 WR if we had another WR threat on the team.
But I have a hard time seeing a WR making a bigger impact on the team than upgrading the OL. If our OL improves through means other than the draft – which is a huge “IF” as there are only so many OL FAs and our current prospects don’t seem to be improving that much, then I’d be ok with picking up a WR early.
I just don’t see the OL improving with draft picks (at least 2) though.
I'm confused
I just don’t see the OL improving with draft picks (at least 2) though
I thought you wanted Drafted O-linemen, vs FA O-Linemen
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
I don't see Locker.
I feel like he’s in complete love with Andrew Luck and if not it MIGHT be Cam Newton… Yes, as much as it pains me, Cam Newton….
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 20, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly Terps
I’d be happy as hell with Mallett. We’ll most likely have to trade up to get Luck, and I’m not for that. I’ll stay put and draft Mallett in a heart beat. Like I’ve said, I hav followed this kids play for a while, and he is a major talent. He’s matured a lot over the years, and should be ready for the big time. Thing with him is that he is no where near his ability yet, which is very scarry. The kid will only get better.
Some QB’s don’t progress much when they hit the NFL. Mallett, IMO, is not one of these guys.
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
See I like Mallett a bit
I think he does have upside, I hope he doesn’t have maturity issues as mentioned, but that might just be “guru” talk like they did about Phillips Rivers who actually shows emotion. The thing that bothers me the most about Ryan Mallett is he’s a pretty precise passer for the most part, but then he will go and make some bonehead plays which reminds me of Brett Favre. I think the Shanahans have the capability to develop young QBs into good starters, but only time will tell. I honestly don’t know why I’m so high on Shanahan maybe it’s because we’ve been losing for so long I won’t mind losing one more season until we can actually be contenders, who knows but the Shanahan’s in the driver’s seat is our best option right now, if nothing else for consistency. Again time will tell.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 20, 2010 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
The bone-headed throws Mallett makes
are sometimes a result of his being a little to over-confident in his arm. Not many QB’s i’ve seen at any level have his kind of arm strength. I think sometimes he forces the ball a little, just because he can.
I think I’d rather have the QB who has the ability to make th throw, and who isn’t afraid to try it, instead of one who just can’t make that throw at all.
I too agree with you on the Shanny’s. I like, and still believe in them both
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
Yeah, that's true
and it’s not like you can’t work on those smaller details especially since younger players are 100% on the same page with the coaches. I’m worried about the number of picks we have though. we currently have our 1st, 2nd, two 5ths, a 6th, a 7th, and an undisclosed pick for Justin Tryon. Let’s say we go QB 1st, Center/Guard 2nd, a Nose Tackle with a 5th, a Wide Receiver with the other 5th, 6th Defensive Tackle, 7th DL?
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 20, 2010 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
since when do we have 2 fifths
that is the first good news I have heard in weeks about the skins (not that it is news, but it is news to me)
thats great, we made be able to package them for a late 3rd early 4th
That mitigates some of the McNabb disaster and also saves us from Dennis Morris 2
Pommylee
It's from the Jammal Brown trade.
Since he wasn’t fully healthy/played like crap this year the Saints are giving the Redskins their 5th round pick.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 21, 2010 1:23 AM EST up reply actions
Get over the Dennis Morris pick dude.
There was nobody in the the 6th round of the draft worth taking.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 21, 2010 1:26 AM EST up reply actions
Cody Grimm
and he has started at Safety (a postition of need) all year, and that is off the top of my head, I will research and find other 6th and 7th round starters during the day
Pommylee
Why is S a position of need?
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
Kareem Moore
Supposedly our best FS, but I read that he is simply not a good tackler. If so, we don’t have a good FS. I think Horton and Doughty are better at SS. But I think it’s clear that D-back is not the highest priority.
Kareem Moore is just not cutting it...
I want to see more out of Kevin Barnes.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 21, 2010 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
Barnes, Yes!
I posted the right name for once.
Agree 100% Terps.
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
D back could become a priority
if Rogers leaves. Then we are in a hole. We need to re-sign Rogers to a 3 year contract. ASAP
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
Thats a low blow my Aussie friend
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
Really?
Because Cody Grimm was a 7th rounder and you can’t predict this guy being that good. At the time Safety wasn’t our most pressing especially when they thought Kareem Moore would be a decent starter.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 21, 2010 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
Free Safety was a need and still is, plus I said 6th and 7th
plus Arthur Moats for Buffalo, more to come
Pommylee
Did you see Horton playing FS against the Cowgirls?
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
To be fair
I love Horton, and always have.
But he is actually the example of what I am trying to explain here.
Ppl tried to give Vinny credit for picking him 2 years ago, but I said you couldnt, because he pick that horrible punter first (who is now back) so he risked horton falling off the board. For the same way, you cant really credit Shanahan too much for TA or Capers/Cook because he took Morris first and risked them falling off the board.
Harsh I know, unfair probably, but these guys get paid more money in a year than we will earn in a lifetime, so they deserve to be scrutinised toughly
Pommylee
Sorry ment to type Barnes
I don’t know why I keep typing Horton
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
I'd rank FS as a very low need
QB
WR
OG
C
DL
LB
CB
are all above FS.
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
Are you putting OG above C
thinking Licht can go to center? By the way, I still hope Big Mike Williams can return. He’s been appearing on CSN and sounds like a guy on the team. On the O-line, if TW, Brown, Hicks and Capers handle the tackles, and a new guy plus BMW, Montgomery, Heyer do guard, Licht and Cook do center, we could be OK.
I group C and G together
But yes, I hope Licht or Monty can take over at C. Throw Cook into that mix as well.
I said early in the season, when everyone was down on Cook and Capers, saying they were long-term projects, that Cook was much further along than some may think.
Keep that in mind moving forward. You all may be surprised from him this offseason, and next year.
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
Personally I think Kevin Barnes can actually develop at Safety
I’m not just saying that because I went to his Alma Mater, but this kid is straight up Smart and his athleticism is tremendous because our Alma Mater’s strength and conditioning program is one of the best in the country. I saw him play in college and he reminds me of an average man’s Bob Sanders which is pretty good if you ask me.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 21, 2010 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
I think Horton is a natural at FS. Big, fast, atheletic and can hit. I said at the beginning of the season that I would love to see him get a shot at FS.
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
Well...
He did well at the beginning of the 2008 season because he was creating turnovers, but he kept getting beat in coverage and obviously the INTs were covering for his mistakes.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 21, 2010 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
I think the dreads threw me off
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
Sorry, Didn't mean Horton, I ment Barnes
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
Ooooh, It's fine.
I loved this kid in college, he’s high character as well. He’s very physical and he’s what you call just a “football” player because he does what you ask him too and at a higher level because of his talent/intelligence.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 21, 2010 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
I recall his coach talking about him when you guys play Cal
They were talking about D Jacksons speed, and Barnes’ coach said something like, I’m not worried, Kevin can run with anyone in the nation. I guess thats true, seeing as he must have went up against Heyward-Bey in practice.
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
Yeah, it's very true.
He never had trouble covering, what pains me is he hasn’t gotten the opportunity to start for us. Our Strength and Conditioning program is probably Top 10 in the country. He’s very strong and rarely misses a tackle save for Brandon Jacobs…
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 21, 2010 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
Not many CB or S's can tackle Jacobs one-on-one
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
You should do another Anylisis of our offseason moves.
Especially since QB is our top Priority now or at least that’s what Shanny will take.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 21, 2010 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
OK
I have some time over the hollidays. I’ll work on one.
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
I have some suggestions as well
maybe I can send send you them.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 22, 2010 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
How about we'll co-write it.
We can add both our imput and analysis and combine it into one post.
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
plus Grimm
projected as solid special teams player and he is a Grimm for f*cks sake, you know his mental make up will be right
Pommylee
I said 6th exclusively.
Most of the guys in these rounds have low upside to begin with, so you can’t blast the guy for it. In hindsight it seems like a bad move, but I’m sure if you played the role of GM you wouldn’t be wetting your pants over a 6th rounder.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 21, 2010 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldnt play the role of GM
and I dont get paid a lifetimes wage per year to do it.
But we are getting off the point here, my issue is not individual picks or moves. It is strategic, we dont have a strategy to get young with high quality youth, The McNabb pick and the fact it meant we had to give away Campbell is the issue that points to strategy, that is my concern
Pommylee
I know, I want youth too
but the statistical probability that you’ll pick the “correct” player in the 6th/7th is very low, you have to understand that. The percentage of players in the later rounds retained tends to be very low. You can’t blame the guy because of the position that we were in.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 21, 2010 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
Well, give him some time.
The guy made a mistake, It’ll be a gradual process either way. I’d love that 2nd round pick too, but what can you do. If you fire him, then what’s your solution?
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 21, 2010 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
my solution
put me in charge
LOL
thats a joke by the way.
My real solution, Keep Shanahan as coach, keep Bruce as VP Contracts as so on, Hire a real Personell Guy as GM, someone from the Pioli tree or something like that
Pommylee
Yes, but I said 6th initially.
Nobody besides maybe David Gettis was worth it.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 21, 2010 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
Didn't the Raiders get Jacoby Ford in the sixth?
And I could’ve swore that the Raiders took Bruce Campbell right after we selected Dennis Morris.
I had no problem with the Perry Riley pick at the time, and I guess the jury is still out on him.
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Dec 22, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
Jacoby was chosen in the 4th as was Bruce Campbell
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 22, 2010 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
well obviously its not Campbell either then
there was some dude, still available in the 5th round when we took Riley, who was projected to be a good O-Line, but then had some terrible last year, or an injury or something, one of the guys who would have been a second rounder had he come out a year earlier, anyone remember who that was
Pommylee
I don't think there was anybody there...
Ed Wang from Virginia Tech was picked by the Bills I heard he was good, but he broke his leg in training camp.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 22, 2010 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
thats who I keep meaning to say
I keep saying Cook being on the board was my frustration with the Dennis Morris pick, but that was not it at all, it was Bruce Campbell, thanks Skins fan
Pommylee
If we go QB in the 1st, I would love us to go G/C in the second, but we could also go CB(like I’ve said before, I love the 2 kids from Texas, and one should still be there in the 2nd). I would target a guy like Phil Taylor(DT from Baylor) in the later rounds. He can play NT, and is pretty aggressive at the snap.
It looks as though my pipe dream of drafting a guy like AJ Green, or Julio Jones will have to be put on the back burner for now. My best guess is we get a FA WR(James Jones being my top target), and pair him with Moss(if he returns), Kelly, and AA. Maybe Austin developes over the offseason too, and becomes a guy we can count on.
I’m still holding out hope that Cook and Capers can develop and contribute in 2011. Don’t forget, Capers was once projected as a 2nd-3rd round pick until his disasterous Senior Bowl, and Cook was 1st team, All-Conference as a C, and was also his teams MVP.
I’m optomistic about the future Terps. Especially with all the youth we have. Although some may disagree, I am also excited about our young O-Line.
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
For the first time ever I'm all for grabbing a QB
and that’s because there are quite a few potential franchise QB’s this year (from what I’ve read – I don’t claim to follow college football well enough to evaluate them all).
But then we need to go for a C/OG (both hopefully) .
The Ravens cut an OG named Bryan Mattison from their practice squad to make room for a TE (because Heap is hurting). I’ve never heard of him but what could it hurt to give him a work out?
I thought you were all O-Line
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
I used to be
and still am if we can’t get a really good QB prospect without trading away draft picks.
I changed because I read the QB draft class is deep so we should have a good chance at drafting a good QB without paying through the nose for it.
At some point you have to pay the piper. Why not now? It can take a QB a while to develop so let’s not ruin our QB by rushing things.
I don't think that this year's class is all that deep
It might just be slightly above average and overrated because the class coming after it looks so dismal.
I really think Luck is the only one in the class worth moving up for, and I don’t think we should do it.
I find it kind of funny when the pundits describe a draft class as deep in quarterbacks winning in 1983 (?) six quarterbacks taken in the second round, all solid starters and a couple of pro bowlers and Super Bowl winners-that’s a deep draft.
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Dec 22, 2010 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
Freaking dictation! That should read
Pundits describe a draft class as deep and quarterbacks when in 1983 (?), six quarterbacks were taken in the first round, all solid starters with a couple of pro bowlers and Super Bowl winners-that’s a deep draft
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Dec 22, 2010 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
A agree with you 4Life
So, is Smuts the only one left on the “we need to draft O-Linemen in the 1st and 2nd round” club?
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
big surprise
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
I agree whole heartedly with your statement
The Cornerbacks from Texas are extremely underrated and talented. They’ve gotten little national exposure this year mainly because Texas stunk it up a whole lot this year, It’s tempting, I’m 60% Guard/Center and 40% CB. I actually checked the kid from Baylor out, I think we can snatch him in the 5th/6th rounds, I like it, intensity is what this team needs. Kelly will probably finally develop into a solid Receiver. James Jones should be our top priority and on the field he’s amazing and underrated. I still am high on Capers as well, I remember him being pretty high on draft boards up until the Senior Bowl. Are there any high character Free Agent #1 receivers?
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 21, 2010 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
I personally think Jones could be a #1 WR
Thats the kind of talent I believe he has. Some on here have mentioned Sims-Walker, but I’m not a huge fan. Jackson and Rice are the big named FA WR’s but I’m not at all for Jackson, and I don’t think the Viks let Rice go. Edwards is a FA too, but my guess is that he remains with the Jets.
Maybe we could go without a true #1 in 2011, if and only if we pick up a good FA WR, Kelly comes back healthy and contributes, and if we bring back Moss for 1 year.
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
James Jones is very underrated
I honestly think he can be a decent #1 Wide Receiver opposite Moss, and then Armstrong in the Slot. I’ve seen Jones make tough catches and he has the ability to take it to the house every time, which is what we need.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 21, 2010 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
Don't forget Kelly too
If we got JJ, I wouldn’t mind if we let Moss walk, and had our top 3 as Kelly, Jones and AA, with Austin and Banks as reserves. In this situation, we get younger, bigger and faster, but loose experience.
I guess I can live with that.
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
Again I have to see how Kelly develops
If anybody can coach this guy up it’s Mike Shanahan and this kid really does want to play for us, you can see the fire in his eyes. He needed Mike Shanahan, but again the jury is still out, I wouldn’t be surprised if he breaks out, but I won’t be shocked if he’s good for 500 yards.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 21, 2010 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
I was watching film on him the other day
and what he did at Oklahoma was just scarry. Kid has some of the best hands I’ve seen. If he can stay healthy, he will be a weapon for any new QB.
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
I saw both of his break out seasons.
He has amazing hands, I saw him catch an impossible and break a tackle, then house it. He has great work ethic as well, which is why Shanahan is going to give him a shot. I love the fact that he’s had a year off because he’ll be 100% come training camp.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 21, 2010 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
I think he's only 24 too
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
You are Right
Mallett is going to be an outstanding nfl qb… This is a smart tough kid who can make all of the throws…. imo , he is a better all around qb than is j locker. Good choice.
BUT… he must first have protection
Go Skins
sbredskinsnabb
by sbredskinsnabb on Dec 23, 2010 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
Really?
I thought you were all about Cam Newton? Are you agreeing that might not be the best fit here, or thinking he will be gone. Hey, you never know how things are going to fall. Obviously, I would rather not take a QB no.1 but we need one sooner or later and so far next years draft doesn’t look promising.. I would be OK with Rex for one year, I suppose, he could certainly help teach the system. As I said, you never know, Maybe the Bills are happy with Fitzpatrick, I don’t see the Bengals, Browns, Texans, Broncos, Cowboys or Lions taking a QB 1st, we could deal McNabb to AZ and ts not that far out of reality to think Carolina might take Cam over Luck……He could very well fall into our laps…..I just have a bad image in my mind of the front page of WaPo reading “Bad Luck”, it would fit our MO.
Naw Magic
I like Newton, I really do, but I’m a Mallett fan first and foremost. He’s my top choice if we go QB; even over Andrew Luck(as crazy as that may sound). It just shows you what a good QB draft this really is.
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
choices
the choices really aren’t to go wild signing FAs to win now or build through the draft to win in the future. The choices are to admit we need to rebuild and do it right (using both FA and the draft) to win in the future or to ignore the need and end up losing now and in the future.
I'm willing to wait
I did it with my Aussie Rules team where we made the equivalent of the NFC Championship game, realised we overachieved, traded away our best players for picks and re-built (and remember we re-built not after a losing season, but after a dream run to our version of the NFC Championship game)
The thing is, the growing part is as much fun as the arriving, you see these young guys have breakout performances, you form a relationship with them, then when they have the inevitable dips of youth, you see them come back from them and mature. That part is fun too, and the payoff for that patience, you are set up not for a 1 year run, but a decade type run of dominance.
Pommylee
See the reason I still have some hope in Shanahan is....
What other options do we have? We’ve tried to bring in Veterans, that hasn’t worked. We’ve tried to win now, that hasn’t worked. We’ve hired and fired coaches every year, that hasn’t worked. What’s left for us to do? If we bring in another coach that will set us back even further considering the learning curve for new schemes. Again, What should we do? Offer some consistency to this franchise, something we haven’t really had since Norv Turner (As much as he sucks as a Head Coach). I’m not blindly defending Shanahan because this guy has already made bonehead mistakes (Jammal Brown, McNabb, Joey Galloway, etc). The truth is he probably didn’t realize just how much of a mess he inherited from accumulation of bad coaching, trading picks away, and lack of talented youth. Right now, I want one single thing: Consistency. Do I expect to win next year? No. Do I want to win next year? Of Course. Do those feelings conflict? Yes, but I would rather have a decade of dominance than only win 2-3 years (See the Minnesota Vikings). For once I just want to have some young talent on this team that grows and gels under the same coach, I want some cohesion.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 20, 2010 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
To add to what you said
Am I furious about the McNabb trade? Hell Yeah, but what can I do?
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 20, 2010 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
Grossman will never be the answer for our future
However, is it a complete coincidence that we put up 30 points for what the second time this season? And the 4 TD’s in one game compared to the 14 TD’s it took McNabb 13 games to throw?
Again, im not praising Grossman. Perhaps, im further pointing out the poor play of McNabb… However the offense clicked better yesterday than it has in weeks. For whatever reason i feel McNabb cant get it done. Even with the terrible grossman our offense moved up and down the field and we scored TD’s rather than missed FG’s… If McNabb had “it” still he’d have been able to accomplish this weeks ago.
you won't catch me defending McNabb's performance this year
But let’s not get excited by 1 decent game by Grossman.
plus even if you praise Grossman
then that is just a further indictment of Shanahan, we ahd Grossman and JC17 for nothing, McNabb cost us 2 picks AND JC17.
IF we had not got McNabb we would not have been in a position where we had to give away campbell for cents on the dollar and mayhave gotten the 2nd or 3rd rd pick that Campbell deserved to garner for us.
Pommylee
Actually
Although DMac did not play up to expectations every game …he did put the team in positions to win on several occassions…missed catches,missed field goals,lack of running game…..
Ofcourse Grossman knows the KS offenses better than DMac…he has been with KS for some years
I only regret that KS was not more flexible towards DMacs skill levels……he surely knew that you cant change much on a qb who has played in one system for a decade. But it is what it is..McNabb is out .
It is time for a new qb and supporting cast.
I really have little doubt but that the Skins will be a better team next year and will make the playoffs.
Go Skins
sbredskinsnabb
by sbredskinsnabb on Dec 23, 2010 8:32 PM EST up reply actions
Good debate, good points by all - shows the bosses have to do some
heavy thinking. One big question is, where are they now? Trevor Matich on CSN said we are 3 or 4 years away from “average”, but when pressed by BMitch, he clarified that he was talking about the mix of rookies and vets, and Brian mentioned that most fans weren’t willing to wait that long. One point about the draft – a QB in the first round is a no-brainer, and we don’t have too many useful picks (just one second rounder?) after that. Maybe AH and D-Mac and Carter can bring us some picks, too. But it seems the team has to rely on FA. I’m more impressed with Torain and AA than Pommylee, but can’t really argue the point.
A huge question for me is, how good is the O-line – how many more pieces do we need? I’d be interested in what Tiller56 and other guys who know line play have to say on that. These last two games have me puzzled. The offense has improved dramatically, as if Shanahan’s system is starting to gel, but the defense has gone down hill, showing just how weak they are, including not having a nose tackle. It seems to me that if they stick with the 3-4, they need almost an entire defensive line (well, there are Carriker and Golston, but few real beasts). By the way, right now only six teams have fewer wins than us, so we are in line to get a pretty high (early) draft slot. Not something to brag about, but…
It doesn't take 3-4 years to become competitive or start making the playoffs regularly
two dedicated drafts can get it done.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
That would be a best-case scenario
There are also teams that dedicate to the draft every year and never make the playoffs (Houston, Detroit, St. Louis, Buffalo, etc.).
I Am Jack's Raging Bile Duct
Yes, well, implicit in any plan to be good is of course having good people in charge.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Even with very good scout and other evaluation personnel it can be hit and miss.
by Jefferson1935 on Dec 20, 2010 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Right, but there's guys who miss a lot more than they hit
those are the ones Snyder should be avoiding
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Shanahan is the epitomy
of the guy who misses more than he hits
Look at the drafts in Denver after he got full control of Personel, it was those drafts that eventually led to him getting fired
Pommylee
the key is scouting
and our scouting in the last 10 years has been awful.
I'm not so sure about that
look you could be right
BUT
We have got some good late round picks, when it is probably due to good Scouting, it is the trading away of picks and the 2008 3 reciever draft that stand as indictments, but that is more Vinny choosing a strategy than the scouts misevaluating talent.
Mind you maybe I am the one being stupidly optimsitic here and they do stink
Pommylee
Yeah agreed, even one Excellent class and another good class can get you there.
See Tampa, 1980s Redskins, The 1999 Rams.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 20, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
You need to let this go, we have a young RB corps and that is b/c of Shanny's evaluations, and it has worked!
The geriatric RB platoon in Training Camp
Pommy -
Shanahan has made mistakes, especially regarding personell, but he’s hit on some too, Torrain when healthy (I know that sucks we have to add the when healthy part to this) is a beast, Anthony Armstrong doesn’t fit the large reciever role we were looking for but he’s making big plays. Banks has been a big time difference maker and Shanahan greatly helped this team by going with the Silver Back with the number 4 instead of a over hyped qb like Clausen.
That being said, the mistakes you highlighted are valid. But what Shanahan is doing is letting everyone know that what you do in practice and on the field is the only thing that will get you playing time. Not your contract, not your past stats and not your immense physical abilities (albert, devin). This team is going to win as a team and to do that everyone has to believe these things:
The team trumps the individual and the coaching staff will never keep a better player off the field because of a contract, past accolades or athletic ability.
With these things we breed a culture of accountability and hard work. If your not performing, we’re gonna give someone else a shot because it’s not about you it’s about the team winning games. Nothing demotivates a player, or anyone else for that matter, then to see there hard work ignored while there boss show favoritism to someone not doing what they should be doing. Redskins have a new motto no longer are we were fading stars come to play out the remainder of their careers, we are now a place where players can come to make a name for themselves thru hard work.
Hate all you want on personell decisions, but this is the same things people wanted to see the last few years when overpriced vetrans were fielded over and over again and under evaluated talent were sent walking to go on and perform on other teams.
this hasn't been proven yet.
Redskins have a new motto no longer are we were fading stars come to play out the remainder of their careers, we are now a place where players can come to make a name for themselves thru hard work.
So many fans want Vincent Jackson, who would just be more of the same.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
then why isn't haynesworth still playing or mcnabb
or Larry Johnson or WP, they were all given a chance and were taken out as soon as it was seen that they weren’t producing, if haynesworth continued to get to play without practicing hard, how would the rest of the DL feel? why should they give 100% during practice when it won’t help them get on the field. and if they’re not giving 100% as a unit it results in them missing assignments during the game. Would haynesworth still get some good numbers, yes he’s a beast but it wouldn’t help our team win. just like it didn’t help our team win last year when orakpo and carter got 11 sacks a piece and we won 4 games.
I guess what i’m getting at is our guys look hungry out there, Perry Riley (who was our second pick not Dennis Morris) looks hungry he looks like he’s got his eyes set on starting next year, Barnes looks hungry, he’s ready to go toe to toe (or head to head) with anyone coming at him. Wilson looks hungry, when one of our guys goes down we got another thats chomping at the bit to come in and compete because thats what they’ve been conditioned all season to do, compete.
Oh and I can’t resist, but Albert looked full, stuffed even, maybe still a bit hungry from gluttony but not hungry enough to earn a spot with this team.
Shanahan needs to get one off-season under his belt where he doesn't bring in a fading big name before we can declare this habit kicked
Like I said, Vincent Jackson would be a similar move and have us back to square one.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Bringing in fading players with incentive contracts isn't bad
You have to give some of these guys shots to see if they still have what it takes. As long as we’re not trading young(draft picks) for old(McNabb), I’m okay with it. Just use them to compliment the draft not replace it.
incentive contracts aren't what I'm talking about
the top tier FAs don’t get incentive contracts, they get guaranteed money.
Jason Taylor, Haynesworth, Vincent Jackson, etc
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Jason Taylor was a trade, not a FA
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
Jason Taylor was and is a great player
But we misused him. A great waste.
I'm not adverse to taking chances
although it sucked that we gave up two draft picks for McNabb atleast we tossed him out when he wasn’t producing on the field and he was being out performed in practice. instead of sticking with him for the sake of sticking with him when our post season hopes slipped away.
Vincent Jackson isn't similar
Honestly, I don’t know how you keep saying this. I’d rather get a younger guy still hungry to prove himself, but VJax is one of the best WRs in the league. Prototypical size, speed, hands and vision. How is he fading? 28 is hardly ancient for a WR. Five year deal takes him to 33 or 34, and that’s still an age at which many WRs of his talent are still producing.
Again, I don’t necessarily think we should sign him. Depends completely on the price and how that affects the rest of what we need to do. However, to reject him out of hand is pure folly, and signing him is NOTHING like Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders, Archuleta, or trading for McNabb.
Personally I'm not saying VJax is fading
Neither was Haynesworth.
We simply have to stop adding guys who are looking for their big payday.
If people haven’t realized now that when players get paid they frequently check out, then they’re not paying attention.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
by smutsboy1 on Dec 21, 2010 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
but he signed McNabb
and he signed Brown and he bought Parker and Johnson into Training Camp and left Torain on the inactive list for the first few games
How does that gel with not going for over the hill Vets.
Look, I hope to god you are right.
From the start, before he was even signed I have been passionately against picking up Shanahan, and all along I have hoped to god to be wrong, but everything I thought would happen, terrible Personel moves, poor record, the 3-4 etc etc has come to pass, but I still hope above hope that I am reading the Tea Leaves incorrectly, I hope people who see the positive in Mike are right, I dont want to be, I want to win.
I just see a coach who is over the hill, who is used to a weak division, who has a history of terrible talent evaluation and wasted drafts and I see danger.
But I hope I am wrong.
Finally I am way to lazy to check this, but I stayed up for all the draft days (from 1am to 8am aussie time) and I am sure I remember our draft going TWILL, D Morris, RIley, Capers. But I stand to be corrected if I am wrong
Pommylee
I'm not down and out on Brown just yet
Knee Injuries take time to recover from just cause you can play doesn’t mean your anywhere near old form. I also really like his mean streak and I think he’s good for Trent as a vetran presence. I’d like to sure up the inside of the line with a high round center or gaurd this draft, anyone know if BMW will be back next year, he was making big strides apparently in the offseason, they loved his speed/strength and size.
I’m one of the few that likes the 3-4 switch, i just wish we would have marketed this as a rebuilding year like it was and not gone after donovan (at the time of the donovan trade i thought it was a good move like many others). He’s obviously not a key piece of this team but I think the 3-4 will be good for us, i think as i’ve wrote before that we will be around a 20th ranked defense next year with a good turnover ratio and sack #‘s and will continue to improve as more pieces come (hopefully thru the draft) I agree that Shanny has botched some personell moves but I really love the attitude and discipline that he brings to this team. thats something we’ve been lacking for quite some time
that is true
Knee Injuries take time to recover from
12 months to heal, 12 months more playing then back to old self
Pommylee
Knee injuries aren't as bad for the skill position players.
Quarterbacks mess up their mechanics though. Also Brown has a hip injury and he’s started to improve and he will be back to form next year.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 21, 2010 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
lets hope so
because my dirty little secret is
I was for the Brown Trade at the time
Tho in my defence, that was only because we had just got McNabb and it was obvious to me that re-building was not on Shannys mind
Pommylee
The trade will pay off in the end IMO
He’ll be good next year and you can see him play better from week to week, The line is starting to gel somewhat, Our Interior line is a mess though
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 21, 2010 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
so why not move Heyer to Guard full time
look I am no line expert
But I record every skins game we get in Australia (4 this year) and watch them repeatedly looking for different things all the time, and in the original Philly game I was shocked when on our first TD I saw the oft maligned Heyer put on just a brutal block pushing the DLineman 6 yards into the backfield. So I started looking for it and when ever he got to move forward, or had help, he looke solid and at times spectacular to me, but when he was in isolation, coming back to create a pocket he was just awful,
Now again I am no line expert, but doesnt that just sound like the traits fo a good guard in teh NFL
Pommylee
That just baffles me.
My best guess right now is that we have no Depth at the Tackle position, so if Heyer gets hurt as a Guard then we’re screwed. I want to play him at Guard as well.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 21, 2010 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
Brown will be OK
He’s playing much better as of late.
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
Pommy get your shit straight...
Dennis Morris with our 2nd pick in the draft (admittedly round five)
Morris was our 3rd pick in the draft (Williams, Riley) and was in the 6th Round. Are you really upset at a coach because a 6th rounder didn’t make the team? Get real dude.
I'm upset at a coach
because he traded away the middle rounds of the draft for a QB he has now jettisoned.
I am upset because with so many needs, he decided to draft one area of strength (TE) with our 2nd pick, a pick that he had over a month to prepare for once he jettisoned the 2nd rd pick. (or is it our 3rd, as stated above I’m too lazy to check but I thought we went TWILL MORRIS RILEY) but whatever.
Either way AT THE TIME all of us on this site, following it live, were fucking outraged at the pick (except LJP and if you want to join him on the side of any discussion please be my guest) this is the madness of it, with Blount available and a need for RB’s, with Capers and Cook still available (tho we got Capers later) he went for some unknown kid who didnt even make the PRactice Squad. and this is not MOnday MOrning Quaterbacking, go back and read the transcripts on this site from Draft night, we were all, to a man, fucking outraged
Pommylee
I understand
I’m mad too but there is nothing we can do now. We need to keep Shanny and give him a chance because changing coaches every year WON’T make a winning team. I hope he builds a better team with the years but if he doesn’t then yes boot his ass.
by The Red End on Dec 20, 2010 6:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Be honest with yourself man.
You can criticize his personnel moves all you want, but he’s made some really good moves too. Your reaching b/c your pissed, after the McNabb trade their isn’t that much to bitch about in the personnel department and you know that.
- Good Moves: Carriker, Torain, KWilliams, TWillaims, Armstrong, Riley, JDavis, Banks, Grossman (Yea I said it!), and a slew of others.
- Really LaGarette Blount? Your really bitching about what RBs we did or didn’t draft? RB is far from a problem for us, have you not seen Torain the past two weeks. Even Blount got cut from the Titans. I guess Jeff Fischer is a total dumbass in your eyes. Do you not think there is a reason why every NFL team passed on Blount SEVEN OR MORE TIMES!
- Haynesworth is gone, thats a great thing!
- He didn’t have a month after the McNabb trade to evaluate, he had a week. The trade happened on Easter.
- Morris was brought in to be a FB/Hback more than a TE, so great info their.
The draft was fine this year, you’re grasping straws. And he we have both Cook and Capers! So you got what wanted.
The McNabb trade sucked, but please find something else to cry about besides LaGarrette Blount and Morris. I’m sure we’d be a playoff team with Blount right now.
Yeah, as much as I want to be pissed about it
It’s my team too and I tend to be more rational about it, he doesn’t think I’m not mad we’re not winning either, I’m tired of this crap too, and hate to say it but there are no shortcuts to this, trust me this franchise has tried shortcuts, but all it gets you is one or two good seasons, then it’s back to losing. What would you get out of firing Mike Shanahan? Setting this franchise back even further, that’s what. The worst trade that we’ve made has been the McNabb trade, but we have to move on. No matter how you want to put it Mike Shanahan has made better moves in one year than the previous regime made in 3.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 20, 2010 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
surely you jest
•He didn’t have a month after the McNabb trade to evaluate, he had a week. The trade happened on Easter.
He had 11 years, there were no other teams knocking down the Iggles door for McNabb, he could easily have waited until the draft and seen what happened with McCoy, Clausen (who for some reason Shanahan loved) and then make the trade if they are unavailable, WE RUSHED INTO THE MCNABB TRADE, the IGgles did not rush us into it. Plus if we enter the draft without McNabb it leaves us in a much stronger position in the Campbell trade if the Shannys had decided they didnt want him, By bringing in McNabb BEFORE moving Campbell it gave us absolutely ZERO leverage. If you have ever in your life being involved in dealmaking or a negotiation you know that he with leverage wins, we gave up any leverage with Campbell by rushing into the McNabb deal
Plus he had 11 years of tape to watch. It was and is an indefensible trade.
As for Blount vs Torain, yes I do think Jeff Fisher is a moron, the dude has never won anything and his last 2 years have been a disaster. And you can not defend Shanahan for ‘choosing’ Torain over Blount as he came into the season with Willie Parker Larry Johnson and Portis, not TOrain, so please keep some intellectual consistency to your arguments at least.
We would not be a playoff team with Blount, the problem is that we keep trying to be a Playoff team THIS YEAR, and that is what the McNabb trade signified a desperation to go now for the win. The anger with last years draft is trading away picks for McNabb and Brown, the anger is mortgaging your future for overrated used players instead of growing our own, the anger is that once again this year we have nothing in the crucial middle rounds of the draft where champion teams are built, there is a reason the Pats trade back into the middle rounds of the draft, much lower guaranteed money and hungry players with something to prove. But no again we will pay 40 million for a top 10 pick, have one decent pick in the 2nd round (decent as in low money high quality) then sit on our hands waiting for the dregs in the 3rd and 4th rounds and I still would not put it past Shanahan to trade away our 2nd Rd pick before draft day.
Plus saying “Since the McNabb trade Shannys personel moves have been OK” is sort of like saying “So other than being shot how did you like the Theatre Mister Lincoln” The McNabb trade was the original sin
As for Morris, he played TE, he was talked about on tis site as someone who projected as HB FB but his game tape was at TE.
Look these are the facts, I would love nothing more than for me to be wrong and you to be right, but when you look at Shanahans history he has never shown a commitment to re-build, the Denver experience is one of Re-Tool not Re-Build, we need to re-build and I dont see a 60 something 2 * SB coach having the patience to sit through a long and painful rebuilding process. If he does all the good and I will be happier than anyone and on the first plane to the NFC Championship game if we make it, but I do not see it happening
Pommylee
type
where it says waiting for dregs in 3rd and 4th rounds I clearly meant waiting for dregs in 6th and 7th rounds.
you forgive that typo RVA and I wont bring up your confusion with theres and theirs
Pommylee
Your ability to compromise baffles me.
Hey what’s your profession? I want to know so I can hire you for a year and see you mess up a couple of times, then fire you.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 21, 2010 1:38 AM EST up reply actions
I'm a Business Analyst
and I have not chosen a proffesion that pays me handsomly to accept public scrutiny and be held accountable to it.
Pommylee
for a few million a year
the public can scrutinize me. I’d be ok with that because I’d laugh all the way to the bank.
There were at least three other teams
that wanted McNabb. McNabb didn’t want to go there. You have a short memory, sir.
Once again please get your shit right...
And you can not defend Shanahan for ‘choosing’ Torain over Blount as he came into the season with Willie Parker Larry Johnson and Portis, not TOrain, so please keep some intellectual consistency to your arguments at least.
He came into opening day with Portis, Johnson, and Keiland Williams. Parker never made the squad. And had Torain on the PS.
As for Morris, he played TE, he was talked about on tis site as someone who projected as HB FB but his game tape was at TE.
when you look at Shanahans history he has never shown a commitment to re-build, the Denver experience is one of Re-Tool not Re-Build,
, so your argument that we shouldn’t have drafted him b/c we were stacked at TE does not hold up.ONCE AGAIN HE WAS BEING EVALUATED AS A FULLBACK
You don’t think Bowen wishes he hadn’t stuck with Shanny right now? He’d have Cutler, Royal, BMarshall, Hillis, and others. You don’t think that would be a good team?
The man was able to put together 6 winning seasons, got to a conference championship, and had a winning percentage of .580 AFTER John Elway, you don’t think he had to rebuild at some point over that 10 year span, or was it just mystical John Elway dust? You wouldn’t be more than content with the Redskins winning 58% of their games?
Plus saying "Since the McNabb trade Shannys personel moves have been OK" is sort of like saying "So other than being shot how did you like the Theatre Mister Lincoln" The McNabb trade was the original sin
Cool once again, ONE MISTAKE, does this negate Armstrong, Banks, TWilliams, Riley, Licht, Austin, Carriker, Cook, Capers, Davis, Harris, Young, Paulsen, KWilliams, etc., etc…
This team is younger now except for a few outliers, so please don’t cry Joey Galloway, and actually has some role players that can compete with us in the future. Also Shanny has actually given his youth a shot to play, unlike what we’ve seen in the past. Stop crying and give the man a fair chance to rebuild this team. Its people like you that are the problem for this team right now, one bad season and you start yelling off with his head.
See i pointed this out in another post how Shanahan was rebuilding the last 4 years in Denver
What the guy never really committed to was drafting defensive players and that’s why he was ousted. He drafted Marshall, Cutler, Ryan Clady, numerous RBs, Tony Scheffler, and Eddie Royal. The guy was actually in the process of rebuilding, but ultimately it caught up to him. Aside from Elvis Dumervil, Mike Shanahan was never good at evaluating defensive players in the draft and that’s ultimately what did him in.
His main mistake was the lack of proper evaluation of Defensive players in the draft save for Elvis Dumervil.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 21, 2010 10:00 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I am getting bored with this
Licht is not a good player, he is average at best and I will be suprised if he is on the team next year.
TWill was a cant miss, OLine in the top 5, whether he went TWill or Okung is a hit regardless.
What the fuck has Riley done other than be a factor in us losing a a game (tho I hope to god he is good and like what I see from him in a Mental Make up way, really handled the adversity of that game well, didnt run and hide, good stuff) but to put him down as a success is a massive massive massive stretch at this point and if you were being intellectually honest in your arguments you would acknowledge that.
You talk about getting the shit right. We have the oldest roster in the League, so how do you then say we are getting younger.
Plus I love the fact that apparently I am the problem, we are 5-9, with an old roster, with maybe 2 players who would eb walk up starts for a contender , I have not made one decision that affects the Skins, but it is my fault, that is just priceless, I would humbly suggest that ppl who actually work for the organisation are to blame.
Parks you are the same person who said 4weeks ago, that you would prefer Free Agents over picks because you dont know if Picks will be good players, now I see after being roundly criticised for that stance you suddenly believed in picks in subsequent posts, which I commend you for.
We have an old roster, the moves we made got us no highly rated youth, we have no picks in the middle rounds this year, we traded away the highly valued pick 37 last year, which became Nate Allen (a position of need for us by the way) but yeah its my fault we are in such a mess.
Again let me repeat, nothing would make me happier than to be wrong, I just dont think I am. I do not see us making the playoffs in the next 2 years.
As for Shannys post Elway winning percentage, it was acheived in the weakest division in Football, where for the best part of this decade he got to feast on Kansas City and Oakland teams that won about 3 games a year and if he got an early San Diego game before they came to life in November there was 5 wins a year. And saying making the conf champ game is being disengenuous and you know it, one playoff victory is the real answer, same as Gibbs 2 and the entire Snyder tenure.
Again I hope desperately to be wrong, I just see terrible terrible signs
Pommylee
Why do you not like Licht Pommy
He’s young, fits into the ZBS, and has improved throughout the season.
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
its not that I dont like him
its that to call him a ’Succesful pick up" is a massive stretch, our man Parks is putting a list of guys who other than Banks have had sporadic moments of positivity as if they are all home run picks that show Shanny genius. Its nuts
(excluing TWILL who has been good, but he was a should not miss top 5 pick anyways)
Pommylee
I think Licht was a pretty good Shanny Pick-up
I like his toughness and potential. Especially the fact that he’s still young and coachable. Could we do better? Yes. Is he the worst? No.
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
Kory Licht adds depth to our Roster either way.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 21, 2010 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
thats fair
but claiming picking Licht is a signal we are getting younger is a massive stretch, thats my point
Pommylee
Thats fine Licht is one guy...
You’ve failed to look at the other 22 players that make up this roster that Shanahan has either drafted, signed, or given a larger role with this team.
Its a good pick up
We now have a youthful OL getting extremely valuable experience, who can add great depth for future seasons.
Do you not realize that football teams have 53 players and the role players and backups become the most important over a 16 game season?
Wrong Again! Come on Pommy!
Parks you are the same person who said 4weeks ago, that you would prefer Free Agents over picks because you dont know if Picks will be good players, now I see after being roundly criticised for that stance you suddenly believed in picks in subsequent posts, which I commend you for.
When did I ever say this? I’ve been preaching the draft over and over.
The roster analysis of being the oldest teams was taken in June, when we didn’t even know who was on our real roster at that point. Currently most of the old players are holdovers from the prior regime.
As for Shannys post Elway winning percentage, it was acheived in the weakest division in Football, where for the best part of this decade he got to feast on Kansas City and Oakland teams that won about 3 games a year and if he got an early San Diego game before they came to life in November there was 5 wins a year.
Don’t be ignorant, do you remember when the Raiders went to the Super Bowl in the 2000s, yea it happened. They won 33 regular season games in 3 years. Even the Chiefs had 3 winning season, one of which they won 13 games (2003). And San Diego had 4 winning season in Shanahan’s post Elway tenure, really you think all the games were before December? They play twice give me a break.
That division has been tougher then you think. And you can’t penalize a coach b/c of the division that he came from. That’s like saying an undefeated non-BCS school doesn’t deserve to play in the national championship b/c of their schedule, when no one will play them and the schedule is made years in advance, that’s the players faults?
now you are just lying
When did I ever say this? I’ve been preaching the draft over and over.
I believe it was Tiller or Skins Fan who replied to you, and I quote from memory
“Oh not not this again”
to which you replied
“what again”
and he replied
“this cant choose Draft because they are not proven”
Now to busy to go back and find it but it happened, I locked it away for future reference.
I knew some moron would bring up the Raiders 2002 Superbowl
Thats why I said the words “BEST PART of a Decade”, Since the Superbowl, ie. 8 years, the Raiders have been a .300 or lower team, so please dont in the desperation to win a flawed argument, claim the AFC West is a strong division, that would just get you laughed out of any bar in any city that understands the NFL. As for the SanDiego thing, if you actually read what was written with an open mind, rather than stopping halfway through sentences thinking you have caught ppl out, you would see that I said 5 Division games, very deliberately, as I was acknowledging only 1 San Diego game, and then even said ’IN SOME YEARS".
But again, RVA, you bore me, you are much like LJP, in that you do not engage in discussion, a ’la the vast majority of ppl who make this site an Oasis of reason, so please just if you see my posts, just read something else, I am finding you very tiresome
Pommylee
Don't throw me into this one Pommy
You can fight parks yourself.
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
I'm not fighting with you just trying to open your mind a little.
Right now you can’t see the forest for the trees.
and you arrogantly beleive you can
just the sheer unadulterated arrogance is now baffling.
You beleive that everybody should bend to your thinking, look at my posts, see the amount of times, to other ppl, who actually engage in discussion, not pathetic point scoring arguments, I allow them to win me over, because I come on here to learn as well as vent/
But you do not discuss, you argue, frankly like my girlfriend does, in a petty point scoring way, and it is tiresome
Pommylee
Prrof of your lies
You can’t say that b/c you don’t know who we would of drafted and they could’ve totally sucked. by RVAparks
That is a direct copy from a post you made after the Monday Night Eagles game, defending getting Brown and McNabb, when myself and afan4life were bemoaning the win now nature of those trades and wishing we still had the picks.
Pommylee
Oh and this is the quote your were responding too
yes McNabb and Brown make us better this year but without those draft picks we will be worse in 3-5 years. We traded the future for the present which has never worked for us.
by aFan4Life
seems to be a lack of faith in the draft right there
Pommylee
That was in reflection to a random late draft pick, how does that reflect that I would prefer FAs?
Way to take something totally out of context.
No it wasnt dude
it was related to the McNAbb trade
Someone said, ’We have put ourselves back by trading for McNabb and Brown to win now, whereas the picks would have helped in 3-5 years)
to which you replied the above.
If you like I can back and get it all for you. It was in the Fanpost, 4 Roster MOves to help….
Pommylee
after VC
My impression of what makes a good off season has changed a lot. Compared to VC, Shanahan has been very good, yet how much real talent did we get? I’m not sure how many of the guys you mentioned would make the roster of a good team.
While I’m now glad that haynesworth is gone I still recognize that the guy has plenty of talent and a better solution would have been for Shanahan to get him to make use of that talent. I know the coach can’t force it to happen but part of their job is motivating players.
So while Shanahan has been an improvement I’m still concerned by his track record (as Pommylee pointed out).
Over reacting Parks. There were several OL selected after Morris that had significant starts.
205 New England Ted Larsen – C
Season Team …………………G GS
2010 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 10 9
TOTAL ………………………10 9
218 Chicago J’Marcus Webb – OT
Season Team ……………..G GS
2010 Chicago Bears …….12 10
TOTAL …………………12 10
by Jefferson1935 on Dec 21, 2010 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
Webb has been a pleasant surprise for the Bears
I wasn’t too high on him as a prospect, but he’s done a pretty descent job.
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
Shanahan's discussion yesterday about McNabb was interesting
He mentioned how Donovan did not run the offense right, did not go through his progressions or spread the ball around. I remember how he missed a wide open Fred Davis who could have easily gotten a first down almost in field goal range to beat Indianapolis, throwing a hopeless longie to AA, as if he was thinking he was back in philly. In other words, he appeared to be saying D-mac just didn’t know (or rejected) the system, and that it wasn’t a matter of mechanics or arm strength or accuracy.
It's funny that you mention that
Because on the Radio Sonny Jurgensen mentioned how in practice (Obviously he has more access than we do seeing as he’s close with Snyder) McNabb didn’t give it his all and how he would always go at his own pace during practice. As you know Practice doesn’t always translate to performance on the field, BUT for the most part it does. This probably goes back to the whole reason why Philly lost the Super Bowl.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 20, 2010 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, and I remember that his performance in the two minute drill in the SB
lacked urgency – and Donovan is notorious for that. And remember the earlier rumors about his alleged practice habits. It could be that Shanahan had very good reasons for dumping D-Mac. And when he had Albert, I can just imagine Mike thinking “why me Lord?” The job of an NFL head coach is almost impossible under the best of circumstances, and they don’t need undermotivated guys like AH and DM (if those stories on his attitude are true, and not just style).
By the way, that blunder with Fred Davis I mentioned above actually happened again at a crucial time – can’t remember the game, but it might have been Keiland Williams – wide open for a vital first down, and Donovan threw a hopeless long one to AA. Just didn’t think of the outlet pass.
Yeah, it's kind of crazy what happens behind closed doors.
I wanted this to work out, but ultimately it can’t work when your QB has issues with your coaches. It seems as though he wanted to keep on running what he ran in Philadelphia and obviously that won’t work well especially when your run game is on fire (Look at the Tampa Bay game). Donovan McNabb’s attitude just wasn’t fully into learning the playbook and that’s most likely true because it’s only natural for veterans to feel that way especially when your Offensive Coordinator is a 30 year old kid. I know which pass you’re talking about, didn’t that basically cost us the game? Donovan has never been good under pressure and running the two minute offense and that obviously doesn’t win your championships. During the Super Bowl two minute drill he seemed out of it and he seemed very lethargic at times, not only that, but he also seemed as you said to lack any urgency during that drive his head wasn’t fully into the game.
by TerpsAllTheWay on Dec 21, 2010 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
I hold grudges
I know it’s selfish, but I wanted McNabb to fail and fail miserably. I hated him in Philly, and I hate him as a Redskin. I tried to accept him into the Redskins family, but I was just fooling myself. I know these feelings are selfish, but I had to get this off my chest.
I HATE MCNABB! There, I said it.
Please forgive my selfishness Redskins nation.
Wow…………………..I actually feel better now. That was a huge burden lifted off my shoulders.
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.
I was opposed to McNabb from the beginning but I tried to cheer for him
I forced myself to hope he’d improve our team but now that he’s on his way out I’m not that sad about it. I want us to have our own franchise QB, not somebody else’s cast off.
And after looking at our good years (1980s) I realize we need some franchise WRs too. I never paid much attention to the fact that Monk, Clark and Sanders were all high/early round draft picks.
While many of the “Hogs” weren’t high/early round draft picks. Jeff Bostic was signed, not drafted as was Joe Jacoby, Russ Grimm was a 3rd round pick, and George Stark was an 11th round pick. That makes Mark May the only 1st round pick.
Come on, man
How can you HATE McNabb?? I understand hating the Iggles and hating how McNabb killed us for a decade, but McNabb himself seems like a real classy dude.
I Am Jack's Raging Bile Duct
I just can't bring myself to like the guy
sorry. I don’t hate the person McNabb, I hate the football player McNabb
Don't ever let failure get you down. Remember, a very successful major league hitter failes 70% of the time.

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