Looks Like Someone Has a Sixpack of the Mondays
by Ken Meringolo on Nov 29, 2010 10:02 AM EST
in Looks Like Someone Has a Sixpack of the Mondays
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Print1. It is time to point out the obvious: We are simply not that talented of a football team.
2. You can overcome a lot of things on "any given Sunday." But a lack of talent is going to bite you in the rear just about every time. This is not to suggest we are not capable of winning games like the one we were in yesterday. But when you need everything to align perfectly just to have a chance, and for a moment it does...you can't get called for holding.
3. I love Brandon Banks. When he is back to receive a kick, the whole stadium--including fans of the opposing team--watches breathlessly to see what he will do.
4. For all you guys out there who nail our receivers (specifically Anthony Armstrong) for falling after the catch, let me just say that I though it was obvious that Donovan McNabb underthrew him on the 50-yard bomb. It should have been a touchdown. But I will take the big play. What stinks is that on the very next play, they ran a good-looking 8-yard out to Armstrong on the opposite side of the field and had it wide open. Armstrong dropped it. Now THAT is something that deserves to be railed on today.
5. So 10-6 is not looking so good right now...
6. Shaun Suisham's line yesterday: Good from 45, 46, 48 and 41 yards--the last one in OT. All I have to say to Pittsburgh fans today is: Suisham has you right where he wants you. When you need a 25-yarder to win the game when it counts in January, watch out. You will say, "But he hit FOUR 40+ yarders in Buffalo...in November!" That guy is worse for your heart than a bag of Funyuns.
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Through 12 weeks and our offense is worse than last year according to FO
Important things that should keep Shanny & McNabb up at night:
The QB from last year has now lost his job yet again to Bruce Gradkowksi
The HC from last year is now a position coach, not even an OC
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Important things that should keep Shanny & McNabb up at night:
- They were left with a bag of beans to work with on offense
by Parks Smith on Nov 29, 2010 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
There's more talent here than last year, yet last year's offense was better
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Subjective assessment.
Seems to me that even if there were more talent this year than last (which I don’t agree with), all of the carryovers on an old team are a year older, and half of them are injured.
by elesias on Nov 29, 2010 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Please.
TW and McNabb alone more than make up for Casey Rabach and whoever else being 1 year older.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Not the be all, end all stat, but just by way of comparison:
2009 Redskins – 266 PF in 16 games = 16.63 PPG
2010 Redskins – 215 PF in 11 games = 19.54 PPG
It’s marginal improvement and not an entirely fair comparison as we’ve yet to see the final results for this season, but any improvement is a refutation that last year’s offense was better.
by elesias on Nov 29, 2010 10:59 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
does that include return & def TDs?
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Yes. Were there so many more this year than last that the numbers are skewed enough to take away from my point?
I'd be curious to see. I'd also like to see our field position numbers as our special teams are infinitely better this year
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
2008 – 12 rushing TDs, 14 receiving TDs, 0 defensive TDs, 1 return TD, 26 FG
2009 – 8 rushing TDs, 21 receiving TDs, 5 defensive TDs, 0 return TDs, 22 FG
2010 – 8 rushing TDs, 11 receiving TDs, 3 defensive TDs, 1 return TD, 21 FG
Adjusted numbers:
2009 – 231 (266 minus 35) points in 16 games = 14.44 PPG
2010 – 213 (215 minus 21) points in 11 games = 19.36 PPG
I don’t know where to get the starting field position information, though I definitely agree that their coverage has been markedly better this year compared to recent history and that may very well influence things.
Not sure what to make of the 21 FG compared to 22 last year. That might be a direct impact of better field position and/or more turnovers forced… though it doesn’t speak well to the team’s ability to finish.
yeah, I mean, I was against the McNabb trade, but I figured at least he and Shanny would be good for more than 17 ppg
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
You could put Peyton Manning or Tom Brady back there and even they could only do so much behind this patchwork OL with no running game to lean on.
That they’ve managed to increase the PPG at all is something, all things considered.
That's what I've been saying for a while.
I’m not going to blame D-Mac for this mess. It’s all the OL. Manning or Brady couldn’t do shit with no time to throw. I’m sure McNabb will improve when the OL improves. Until then, the whole offense is going to suck.
Where are my shoelaces?
precisely why I was against the trade
You could put Peyton Manning or Tom Brady back there and even they could only do so much behind this patchwork OL with no running game to lean on.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
precisely why I was against the trade
Be that as it may, that’s getting away from the original statement that this year’s team is worse offensively than last years.
overall I'd say last year's offense has roughly the same production as this year's
and given the investment this year in draft picks, money, and a new regime, that’s a problem.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
overall I’d say last year’s offense has roughly the same production as this year’s
I’d agree, if we were talking right now. With 5 games left they’ve already almost matched last years point production for the entire season, and are are on pace to match or beat most offensive categories.
Also, they’ve won more games than last year which is the desirable end result. This team isn’t going to be turned around overnight or even in a season, and though you seem to feel the team invested too much into too little, the simple truth is that there was no single move that would have made this team a contender. They’re getting better, and though there’s still a lot of room for improvement, after watching their downward spiral for the past 10 years, personally, I’m quite happy that we can actually point to some improvements… no matter how small and seemingly irrelevant.
There has been improvement but....
Are we looking to merely improve over what was a catastrophe of a season last year or are we attempting to build a team that can contend for a championship. The stats that you have shown definitely show an improvement ( & if you were to throw strength of schedule into the mix it would make your stats even more credible ) how ever, how much has the team improved for the long run. It seems to me that we will be going into the next off-season with pretty much the same positional needs as last year ( other than LT, but still needing a revamp of our offensive line ). I think that Shannahan has done an extremely GOOD job of player development, he has taken the talent that was left from the previous FO , which was relatively very little plus the talent form FA & last years draft & done about the best that could have been done. My problem with the current FO & coaching staff is that they do not seem to be very good at evaluating talent, which was also Shannahans downfall in Denver. Last years draft was terrible, other than TW it was pretty much a complete failure IMO. Riley might get on the field as a starter in a year or two ( or he might not ) a TE who was not needed or talented, a PS WR & two PS linemen. I think that Shannahan needs to have a GM that evaluates talent instead of a GM who provides whatever talent is desired by the coaching staff.
I am not arguing your point ( even tho I am sure it seems that way in a boring & long-winded comment ), getting rid of Vinny Cerrato was a huge step forward but IMHO maybe a GM that can find & sign talent instead of a yes-man woud also be a significant improvement.
by ENsDad27 on Nov 29, 2010 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Don’t get me wrong, there is a long way to go yet. At this point—at this moment—I’m happy that we can see, however small, that there has been improvement.
I wish there were more and I wish it were more readily apparent to a casual observer, but after 10 years of things getting even worse just when it seemed like things couldn’t possibly get any worse, and with no one seeming to learn from their repeated mistakes, it’s nice to see some actual, positive change.
I’m not at all arguing that what has been accomplished is enough, or that I’m even content with it overall, just trying to counter the original contention that the offense was better last year.
As you say, I think they’ve done a decent job with what they had to work with, and I, personally, am hoping that a little stability will lead to continued positive change toward building a team we can all be proud to cheer for again.
Also:
2009 – 29 TDs in 16 games = 1.81 TD/G
2010 – 22 TDs in 11 games = 2.00 TD/G
I’m not trying to argue the offense is by any means adequate, because they’re surely not, but I don’t think it’s a fair statement to say that last year’s offense was better when, as of this moment, this year’s offense has been (albeit, marginally) more productive.
And, again, I know point totals aren’t the be-all, end-all statistic (and include defensive scores), as I’m sure certain aspects of the offense were, in fact, better last year (like rushing yards per game, 3rd down conversion percentage, etc.), but in the end the offense is supposed to score points and if you’re scoring more then it’s hard to argue that you’re not better.
Its ok Smuts would be happier with Zorn and Cerrato back
by Parks Smith on Nov 29, 2010 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
Nope, just pointing out that your boys Shanny & McNabb aren't the improvement you think they are.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I picked us to be 8-8, and thats still a realistic finish right now, so it looks like they're exactly what I thought they were
by Parks Smith on Nov 29, 2010 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
let's talk about the offense. a lot goes into overall record.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Well lets look at the team as a whole going by the general consensus of Hogs Haven...
Offense: Sucks
Defense: 3-4 Sucks, doesn’t work, etc…
ST: Pretty good
hmmmm……. 8-8 is looking like an accomplishment, I’ve remained optimistic but I’ve never praised Shanahan or McNabb, just remain patient to see what Shanny and Allen can do with a “real” offseason this year.
by Parks Smith on Nov 29, 2010 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
I guess you had no need to respond to my comment: Through 12 weeks and our offense is worse than last year according to FO
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I read through your extensive criticism of football outsiders and I find your argument convincing.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I think Shanahan is an improvement...
Shanny brought in undrafted rookie Brandon Banks.
Who did Zorny and Cerrato bring in undrafted the past two years?
by preppiejack on Nov 29, 2010 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
I'm focusing on the offense. Playcalling. Personnel. etc.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
No your not at all, you're focusing on a geeky, sabermetrics stat site
That’s the only thing you’ve used to back up your argument, besides McNabb
by Parks Smith on Nov 29, 2010 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
hahaha. "the only thing you're using to back up your argument is detailed statistics!"
That’s the only thing you’ve used to back up your argument, besides McNabb
hahahaha
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
You're right I'm sure all the NFL coaches and GMs login to Football Outsiders on Mondays to see how their doing
That would explain why they need the classy advertising all over their site.
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Does this site statistically handicap us for injuries and having a moron run the franchise for the past 5 years?
by Parks Smith on Nov 29, 2010 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry
I honestly don’t have enough background knowledge on FOutsiders nor do I care to, but I think blindly pointing at statistics and claiming it as facts is like saying Vince Young is the league’s best QB b/c he has the highest QB Rating, its crap.
And it looks like the Skins Offensive DVOA is almost 4 points better than last year. Truthfully the only statistic I really care about is Wins vs Losses.
Everyone here that can see or hear, can tell our offense is not very good right now.
by Parks Smith on Nov 29, 2010 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
the only person doing something blindly is you criticizing something you admittedly know nothing about
By one metric, a well-researched and established metric, our offense is worse this year than last year.
I think many Skins fans need to come to terms with this, especially ones who were so excited to dump JC & Zorn.
Shanahan & McNabb aren’t doing any better.
I’m not saying we should have kept JC. I’m saying: the McNabb wasn’t worth it, and Shanahan isn’t producing yet.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Shanahan & McNabb aren’t doing any better.
I looked at this on NFL.com, its a well respected authority on all things National Football League. We are +1 in wins this year in -5 games from last year, with a harder strength of schedule. This does confirm my hypothesis that we are better.
I think many Skins fans need to come to terms with this, especially ones who were so excited to dump JC & Zorn.
I really, truly think you immediately assume that ShanAllen got together this offseason and said “DAMN! This is a one year plan to get us to the SUPER BOWL!!!!” I don’t really think this was the case. I think they may have thought this team could sneak into the playoffs and would of been smitten (or smutten) with that. Sure its a 3 year plan rather than a 5. I also think they plan on making some real quality moves and draft picks this offseason.
But hell what do I know, I don’t have a crystal ball. I could be wrong smuts, and I’ll be more than happy to bow down to you in May if I am.
by Parks Smith on Nov 29, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
I think FO's metrics are better
and Zorn & Co ranked 20th last year.
Right now we rank 24
Here’s my point:
We traded two picks for McNabb and handed the keys to an offensive “genius”, and improvement has been marginal, if at all.
That’s it. That’s my point. Our offense still sucks.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I didn’t see it above, so could you give a link to this ranking?
I did a quick search and found this, but that has the Redskins at 22nd, not 24th, so maybe you’re looking at something different.
Regardless, these are rankings and not a good yearly comparison measure, as it is how the team measures up against the rest of the teams at the moment, not how they measure up against themselves from other periods of time.
Yeah, sorry 24th was last week
not how they measure up against themselves from other periods of time.
Not sure I follow this. The team is measured against its opponents in the given season, taking into account strength of schedule (and more importantly, strength of defense)
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
It’s just a ranking system.
If they were 20th last year, that means that their offense performed “worse” than 19 teams and “better” than 12 teams. If they’re 24th (or 22nd, or whatever) this year, it doesn’t mean they’re worse than they were last year, it just means that they’re “worse” than 23 other teams this year.
Comparing the ranking score from one year to the next is not necessarily an accurate measure of whether an offense is improving or declining, except in relation to the other 31 teams.
isn't it useful in that in both cases they're being compared to their peers?
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Yes, but it doesn’t mean that the rankings by themselves are an accurate depiction of how the team has progressed or declined from year to year.
You’d have to look at the underlying numbers that make up that ranking and compare those.
Hypothetically speaking, say Team A has an exactly identical season in 2009 and 2010. Now say Team B has a slightly worse season than Team A in 09, and a slightly better season in 2010. By the rankings it would seem that Team A declined when, in fact, they were exactly the same. Their ranking only changed because another team had a better year.
Well right, but that doesn't mean year to year comparisons aren't fairly useful
things like this
Their ranking only changed because another team had a better year.
will probably even out over time. Against their peers in 2009 the Redskins had the 20th ranked offense, against their peers in 2010 they are ranked 22nd so far.
There’s useful observations to made from that.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I guess, though not anything that matters in my mind. I’m not especially concerned with how they stack up against the rest of the league. I’m concerned with how they perform each week and if they’re making progress.
Most of the statistics point to their being better this year than last, so their rankings compared to the rest of the league isn’t really relevant to a discussion about whether they were better last year than they are this year.
truthfully
I think our scheme sucks. I actually think we were a victim of bait and switch. Personally, I never liked Shanahan. (I wanted us to hire Big Russ) But once lil Mike was here, I came to grips with it quickly, cuz I KNEW at the very least we would have a monster running game. Then I find out that we’re not REALLY running PapaShan’s offense, we’re actually running the offense of the much less accomplished/proven/battle-tested BabyShan. So, yeah, I’m pretty disappointed in the offense as well.
Now, that said, I would NEVER say we were better off with Zorn. NEVER.
As for the FO “numbers” – DAMN I hate those sites. Seriously, at what point do we just stop watching the games and just throw a bunch of variables into a computer to see which team should win? Call me old fashioned, but I happen to think that the players (see HUMANS) decide the outcome of the games, and that the gameDAY experience (see Any given Sunday) has as much to do with the outcome as anything. Sorry, but I just don’t see how R2D2 can “calculate” for the various, unpredictable conditions that arise EVERY GAME. How can Max Headroom know Timmy Smith would produce the best performance EVER by a RB in the Superbowl? What numbers could POSSIBLY get you to that conclusion? And does Johnny 5 know about the “Tuck rule”? Can K.I.T.T crunch some numbers that tell me who’s gonna win the Mud Bowl?
Anyway, you get my drift. Stats are fun numbers to look st after the game. But they don’t tell the whole story. And they never will. I hope.
by CJHutch on Nov 29, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
sounds like something Vinny Cerrato would say
As for the FO "numbers" – DAMN I hate those sites. Seriously, at what point do we just stop watching the games and just throw a bunch of variables into a computer to see which team should win? Call me old fashioned, but I happen to think that the players (see HUMANS) decide the outcome of the games, and that the gameDAY experience (see Any given Sunday) has as much to do with the outcome as anything. Sorry, but I just don’t see how R2D2 can "calculate" for the various, unpredictable conditions that arise EVERY GAME. How can Max Headroom know Timmy Smith would produce the best performance EVER by a RB in the Superbowl? What numbers could POSSIBLY get you to that conclusion? And does Johnny 5 know about the "Tuck rule"? Can K.I.T.T crunch some numbers that tell me who’s gonna win the Mud Bowl?
I referenced STATS that ANALYZE our OFFENSE TO DATE.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
thats below the belt, smuts
How would you like to be called Matt Millen, he had a premium subscription to FO
it was a diry shot, but the stupidity of that argument "STATS CAN'T PREDICT THE FUTURE LOL OMG" was painful
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
you missed my point
And sorry if you took it personal, I tried to be as light hearted as possible. All I meant was that stats don’t tell the whole story. If you REALLY think that Jim Zorn is a better option than Shanahan, then I think the discussion is moot, cuz there’s no way we’re on the same plane.
As far as the Campbell vs. McNabb debate, you HAVE to know McNabb is the better QB/leader. I do. I don’t know about you, but, regardless of the stats, I am much more confident in McNabb’s ability to make a play then I ever was of JC’s. And I was a JC supporter. The argument for Campbell was always “give him time, he’s learning a new offense.” Well, we gave him time, so now I’m willing to give McNabb some time.
I just don’t like to let numbers tell me how the game played out. I prefer to watch it live , then maybe analyze it myself with a beer and my DVR remote.
And finally, again, I was being light hearted. Nothing meant to hit “below the belt”. So to retort with a word like “Stupidity” is uncalled for. And to compare me to Vinny is just plain nasty. You’re so far removed from my Christmas card list, its not even funny.
by CJHutch on Nov 29, 2010 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I just don’t like to let numbers tell me how the game played out. I prefer to watch it live , then maybe analyze it myself with a beer and my DVR remote.
I prefer to do both. With my own eyes, and through intelligent statistics.
And both tell me that our offense still sucks this year.
you’re so far removed from my Christmas card list, its not even funny.
hahaaha. fair.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
OK, so there IS
some common ground. I too believe our offense sucks ass. It also sucked ass last year. And while I am FAR from a fan of BabyShanny, I definitely prefer him over the Mr. Happypants and Bingo Bob show.
Also, as bad as our offense IS, I do enjoy knowing that there is ALWAYS the potential for a big play. Couldn’t say the same under Mr. Medium.
oh yeah, and
Like I said, I’m old fashioned. You will never, EVER, see the letter LOL and/or OMG typed in succession with my name attached to it.
Except for right here, but that doesn’t count. I don’t think….
Check this out-from Rich Tandler
"The Redskins need to score more points if they are going to become a consistent winner. Since 2000, they are the second-worst scoring team in the NFL. Only the Cleveland Browns have scored fewer points and they were a second-year expansion team in 2000 (Houston has scored fewer points than either team overall but the Texans didn’t come into the league until 2002)."
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Nov 29, 2010 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
Smuts...you on the Fire Haslett train?
I am still undecided, though not because I am unsure of how bad our defense is.
by Ken Meringolo on Nov 29, 2010 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
Only if it comes with a switch back to the 4-3
or a magic influx of players who fit the 3-4
Otherwise it won’t matter much. Haslett’s mediocre as hell, but he’s only part of the problem.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I am done caring what our "scheme" is
You know I simply don’t believe it matters. Just put our guys in position to be successful Haslett. If we had a more scary linebacking corps, that would be one thing.
Dammit…now I have to ask this question…what is our strength defensively? The sound you hear is the universe imploding on itselft at the mere thought of answering that question.
by Ken Meringolo on Nov 29, 2010 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
speaking of
I love LorAx, but have you ever wondered why he doesn’t deliver the same type of hits at OLB as he does on Teams? I know running downfield full speed makes the bonecrushing hits more likely, but c’mon. Not one jackhammer? Think about it, if that dude delivered those type of hits on defense, then we WOULD have a “more scary linebacking corps.”
by CJHutch on Nov 29, 2010 12:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
you're spoiled
that’s what it is
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
Sooo many issues.....
I am also undecided on the firing Haslett train, I liked the Shanahan hire at first, and we all admitted it would take some time….hell at the moment I am ready to drag Kyle down the alley and kick his ass myself….but we all admitted it would take some time. I am old school and it was hard for me to accept a switch to the 3-4, and with our personnel we could have a serious defense in the 4-3……but that change might take longer than the offense. This is NOT the team we thought they were. What happened to the play calling on both sides of the ball? I would be curious to know the stats on blitz , and pass attempt % beyond 10 yds between the first 5 weeks and the last 6….ever since the Colts game it seems the coaches have something “more important” on their minds. UGH and ARGH…..Dropped passes and players out of position, or just not giving 100 is unn acceptable.
you know we still have problems such as
Having to burn timeouts as the play is not getting in fast enough
lining up incorrectly on offense
secondary having missed assignments
and some questionable coaching strategy
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
It’s getting very frustrating these last 17 years.
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Nov 29, 2010 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
our def strength is Fletcher, Orakpo and Landry
after that is pretty slim pickings. Even so Fletcher and Orakpo fit a 4-3 scheme better.
IMPROBABILITY 101
Yes, 10-6 does seem about as likely as Harold Stassen making another run for the White House in 2012….(and poor old Harold has already been dead for a decade.)
Still…..before THE GREAT KOOL-AID EPIDEMIC struck, we all knew (deep down) this team needed two or three YEARS…not 11 games…to get better. Please, God! Don’t let the Danny fire & hire a whole new coaching staff!
Our offense is anemic.
I maintain that yes, we probably would have won that game if not for Perry Riley, but shouldn’t we be more upset that our offense can’t score more than 13 fucking points? We shouldn’t have to rely on Banks to win the game for us. Yeah, a great special teams is wonderful, but it’s frustrating that we have a horrible offense that can’t score points.
Where are my shoelaces?
Our offense has never been able to score points...
It’s that bad that we DO have to rely on Banks to win the game. Seriously, just keep going three & out every series, just let Brandon Banks return punts all day. He’s the best chance we have at scoring points.
"our offense has NEVER been able to score points"
- is not true, I am only 40 and I remember when we set set the record for “points in a quarter in a superbowl”……..along many other records.
- new system, 2 ring coach, and new multiple pro-bowl QB.
- We blew it as a team……the players on the field HAD to know that the Giants were losing to Jacksonville (at the time) that was the time to realize that there was still a shot to make a move and they did not step up.
I DO NOT LIKE
James Davis – especially starting him that much and relying on him
- I would expect the coaces to have inserted SELLERS or D YOUNG – they are proven catching out of the backfield…
and Perry Riley, you think you would’ve learned to not touch anyone on the first penalty you got
worst part
is that the Skins have also been one of the luckiest teams in the league this year…when that reverts to the mean, 5-6 easily becomes 3-8.
I think every team can have a 2-3 game swing like that....
I know Pittsburgh is really good but they seriously had two GIFT WINS. 8-3 could/should easily be 6-5 for them. They got lucky with the win in Miami and then yesterday Buffalo’s Steve Johnson dropped a TD in OT. Now THAT was literally GIVING a game away. You wanna talk about our drops yesterday?… those don’t even compare to that one. I’m sure Bills fans are calling for him to be cut.
Luckiest?
Everytime I look I see teams getting away with blocks in the back on punt returns but we get called for it, no one except alex barron ever gets called for holding Orakpo, yet we get called for holding all the time, I’ve seen atleast three occasions this year where one of our guys gets dragged down by the facemask and no call, then London Fletcher hits a guy that is still up and no whistle has blown the play dead get called for a late hit, we are one of the unluckiest teams.
(In case this came off as a negative attacking comment I mean it only to debate)
By luckiest, I was referring specifically to:
1. the holding call to end the Dallas game – obvious, but I’ve never seen a defensive penalty end the game (especially when the offensive team scored a TD on the play).
2. Michael Vick leaving the game with an injury in the first quarter.
3. Clay Matthews, Jr. leaving the game with an injury in the midst of a completely dominant performance.
4. Jay Cutler playing catch with DeAngelo Hall
5. Vince Young getting injured when his hand hits a helmet & since Kerry Collins is also injured, Rusty Smith enters the game for the Titans.
6. Adrian Peterson getting injured after a dominant quarter+
by artmonk4ever on Nov 29, 2010 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
A defensive penalty cannot end the game
By rule, the offense gets a free “untimed” play. I think that you meant “an offensive penalty end the game.” I have seen it happen that the offense gets a penalty and the run the 10 seconds off the clock inside 2:00, and wouldn’t be surprised at all if it had ended some games before. I’m not certain I’ve ever seen it happen on a TD play though.
There was a near classic block in the back against Reed Doughty last week
on that touchdown return by Tennessee. No penalty .called. Really obvious.
You can say the same thing going the other way...
- Gano kick is good vs Houston
- Gano kicks well vs. Colts
- No penalty for Riley
Whoa there’s a 8-3 team
But every team in the league could say that.
by Parks Smith on Nov 29, 2010 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
The bomb to armstrong
McNabb got hit right after he threw the ball, he couldn’t step into the throw which caused the throw to fall short. The drop after the bomb was embaressing, but I think Ma’ake getting called for defensive holdign was more embaressing.
"You're fucking out!"
Yeah, I don't blame McNabb for that one
One of the Williams (not sure which) was right on him, McNabb couldn’t step up and deliver the ball the way he would’ve needed to to get it to Armstrong in stride. Great adjustment by Armstrong.
The drops were also killers for the Redskins, and by some of the marquis players, too – Moss has got to catch the ball that turned into an INT, that was bad.
Another could have, should have and didn't game
Its always something with this team. Every single game some facet of this team implodes.
If I were Shanahan I would be popping Xanax. No matter how well this team comes prepared some part of this team will fail to execute. I think I would take Riley into the middle of the field during practice, put a gun to his head and shoot him in front of the team and I would do it looking right at Moss. I would say there are two types of executions on this field, Sundays and Tuesdays. You choose.
by hambonejackson on Nov 29, 2010 11:49 AM EST reply actions
why is it that Riley seems to be the Goat this week?
There were so many fuck ups yesterday on every side of the ball but he seems to be the one that’s hated the most
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
By no means was that the only fuck up...
Just the most obvious
by tony420 on Nov 29, 2010 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
By then the game was over anyway
I was waiting for Banks to take it to the bank and he did. And I knew there had to be a flag and for the 2nd time in the game it was Riley. I would cut him the next day, somewhere out there is some guy filipping burgers who can play the game and not screw up. That would be my message to the team.
by hambonejackson on Nov 29, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
I'd bench him, but not cut him
In part because I think that cutting him is cutting off your nose to spite your face. He’s an heir apparent to one of the ILB jobs at the moment, and (IMHO) has some potential to be a solid-to-good LB in this league.
He already spends about 70% of the time on the bench
Cut him-you do not commit the same screwup twice in one game. That is just a lack of football smarts, I don’t need to see any Leon Lett’s on this team
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Nov 29, 2010 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
THAT
should piss everyone off more than anything.
How the hell that old, gimpy, SOB RAN for 10 yards (something our own RUNNING backs couldn’t do all day) should be something that eats away at their souls for the rest of the season.
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
Yeah
I thought the beast was unchained
by hambonejackson on Nov 29, 2010 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
I personally thought the drops were the most obvious
along with the defensive holding
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
I vote Santana's amazing ability to turn a good pass into a gimmie INT
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I don't really think we could call that pass good
Catchable definitely-but definitely not good.
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Nov 29, 2010 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
He apparently was playing on special teams because of injuries to key ST players
Danny didn’t have any choice.
sooo
the rookie gets the old yeller treatment, but the guys that have been in this league for years now, and should know better, get a pass?
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
Moss and Cooley have made alot of plays for this team
I include Cooley. What has Riley ever done for them?
by hambonejackson on Nov 29, 2010 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
you don't cut a rookie for 1 bad day of special teams penalties.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I'm not mad at Riley...
The penalty came as no surprise at all right? It’s been that kind of year…I almost expected it. I lump that penalty by Riley into all the other douchebaggery that has transpired this season. I am numb to it all and I am not even close to hanging a loss on a 22-year old linebacker that made a bonehead play. We still could have overcome it and we didn’t. Good teams overcome plays like that every week. We can not overcome even one bad play or mistake.
by Ken Meringolo on Nov 29, 2010 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
Whoop, there it is
I am numb to it all and I am not even close to hanging a loss on a 22-year old linebacker that made a bonehead play. We still could have overcome it and we didn’t. Good teams overcome plays like that every week. We can not overcome even one bad play or mistake.
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
Its extreme
but on the other hand their problems are persist. Something has to be done. At some point somewhere there has to be a message sent to this team that failure to execute will have consequences. This is why they are such an average team. they do not do anything. Next week we will play better. They should have clobbered Minnesota. Losing that cost them any hope for the playoffs. I am not out to cut the rookie. I am out to cut the whole team.
by hambonejackson on Nov 29, 2010 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
Has anyone noticed how much Riley has been playing ST wise this year?
Just curious. I’d actually like to see him play a little more LB, rather then defaulting to Blades every time. Do we re-sign Blades after this year?
by Parks Smith on Nov 29, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Isn't Blades the play caller when Fletcher is not out there? Or one of them anyway?
by hambonejackson on Nov 29, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
I don't see why not
he’s only 26, is a staple of ST, and I’m sure SOMETHING had to have rubbed off on him from Fletch.
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
There it is
the permissive culture of the Redskins. This is why they lose games. Don’t worry. There is always next week. There is no more season now. Now its looking at players and see who executes and see who doesn’t. I expect a massive roster change and if there isn’t, then I can expect more losses next season. Whats the point of getting McNabb if you are not going to win?
by hambonejackson on Nov 29, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
? What was premissive about that statement?
by Parks Smith on Nov 29, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
promoting a player who screws up
now you want him out there even more
by hambonejackson on Nov 29, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Yea I'm really shouting it from mountain tops.
I was asking how much ST he plays, b/c I didn’t notice him at ST at LSU and I haven’t followed him that much this year. Maybe he’s not as familiar with being a special teamer, I have no idea.
But I do know he was a hell of linebacker in college and would like to see what he could do if we were put in a pinch. I don’t see how this is promoting a player. I just would like to see what he can do at his natural position as part of a rotation if one of the ILB went down. Christ, what the hell was I thinking.
by Parks Smith on Nov 29, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
This is not about what you can do. Its about execution out on the field
Execution cost them the season. You don’t execute properly, you do not play. Its a team game and it only takes one player not executiing properly to cost them the game.
by hambonejackson on Nov 29, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
I am going to insert this
That touchdown run was overcoming bad play. Good teams don’t get penalties called against them on plays that are overcoming bad plays.
by hambonejackson on Nov 29, 2010 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
And he did have one game in pre-season where he was making plays all over the place. I know thats an impossibly small sample size, but still not ready to drop the ax on the guy. Far to many mistakes to go around to single him out. Even though it was a biggie…
Has anyone noticed that after the Redskins score
The other team scores? If the Redskins aren’t moving the ball then the other team struggles to move the ball? One player makes agreat play and somewhere else another player will turn around and find a way to negate it. Not just under Shanahan. every season.
Why can’t the Redskins just shut down down the other team when the offense is executing. The Skins beat the Titans in spite of themselves. This team doesn’t win games. They just happen not to lose no matter how hard they try. To me its a cultural thing with this team. it never matters who coaches or plays. Its the whole culture that needs to change.
to me it's a talent thing
To me its a cultural thing with this team. it never matters who coaches or plays. Its the whole culture that needs to change.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
The Redskins have plenty of talent
They had enough talent to clobber the Vikings yesterday. Its focus and effort. They don’t seem to to tighten their defense up until they have to. its only when their backs are against the wall that they play well. Give the Skins the lead and where is the defense? The defense plays well and where is the offense? Every game.Its why these games are down to the wire.
by hambonejackson on Nov 29, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
every team has talent, even the Bills and Browns
The Redskins talent is, at best, middle of the pack.
probably worse, IMO
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
by smutsboy1 on Nov 29, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
hoooooly crap
you two agree on something??!?!?!?
Welp, guess I gotta hit Shoppers tonight for a few cans of spam and bottled water.
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
Just accept it as a re-birth rather then an end of the world.
I think a lot of our end conclusions are the same we just take totally different paths and logic to get there. At least he’s accepted the fact I’m an ass and can handle me better than anyone else. He’s a true frenemy.
Hit the wrong key
The Bills and the Browns do not have a hall of fame caliber QB. Moss and Cooley are all pro caliber receivers and our pro bowl caliber managed to shut down their own offense. Its not other teams that beat the skins. They beat themselves. If they just simply executed properly they would be in the playoff hunt. i see a team just manage to either beat itself or try to beat itself. I think are very talented. Their offensive needs some upgrades, but its more like bone headed plays.5 times in the last 3 minutes of the Texans game they could have iced it. 5 times. Some how, some way they figured out a way not to.
by hambonejackson on Nov 29, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
If 34 yo McNabb, 31 Santana, and Chris Cooley are your highlights
then I stand by my argument.
the talent on our team is nothing special.
awful OL. awful WR corps. awful/unproven RBs
and a defense with some talent but that is having a new system forced on it.
we’re a mediocre team with a mediocre record. some things go our way, we could be playing for the playoffs, if they don’t, then we get what we deserve.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Outside of Brady what is so special about New England?
And so what if McNabb is 34? You don’t think Moss can play? And what is wrong with Cooley? I think a few teams would’nt mind having all 3 of them. the Oline needs upgrading, without a doubt. But that isn’t what cost them games. Its a player like Riley who crack blocks a player who isn’t even in the play. Its trying to run an offense with sure handed receivers dropping easy passes. And the defense? Orakpo? Haynesworth? Carter? Landry? Fletcher? Rogers? Hall? Everyone of them could be starting on most teams. My point is, it doesn’t matter how much talent a team has if they don’t execute plays. No one said Dallas lacks talent. They just shot themselves in the foot over and over again. Just like the Redskins do.
by hambonejackson on Nov 29, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
screeeeeeeeeeetchhhhhhhh
But (OL) isn’t what cost them games.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
who said what now?
the Oline needs upgrading, without a doubt. But that isn’t what cost them games.
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
Disagree on talent
There are positions where the Redskins are better than the Vikings, but the battle in the trenches was won by the Vikings on both sides of the ball. The Redskins’ DLine and OLine were consistently moving backwards, and that’s a tough way to win football games.
And the Skins had wide open receivers
and McNabb had plenty of time to get them the ball. But the dropped easy passes just killed their momentum. Its not like the Vikings scored a lot of points. The field goal was gratis an easy pass that Moss managed to to screw up. And they had a touchdown negated because of a boneheaded play. Two botched plays cost them 10 points. You can have all world talent, but if players botch plays up it really doesn’t matter. So basically the vikings had two drives all game that resulted in points. The Redskins are working with a patchwork offensive line. Arunning bak off a practice squad and another
running back who wasn’t even drafted. Despite all of this, they still could have won the game.
by hambonejackson on Nov 29, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
if he can polish himself a little more
as a receiver, he’d be great. and running the wildcat with him would also make a lot more sense than with banks as there’d be the threat of actually throwing the ball.
Jets got a steal using a 4th on him.
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
we did it with Randle (f)El
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
lol
Luckily, the comparison stops there as Smith has actually, you know, moved FORWARD when returning kicks.
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
Keep in mind..we have a pretty electric return man already
So I assume you guys want Brad Smith as a straight offensive guy?
by Ken Meringolo on Nov 29, 2010 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
pretty much
I tend to think of him as NY’s LoAx
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
My final belief is now that the Redskin season is over
Execution trumps talent. The Redskins shot themselves in the foot again. they could have gone into half time with comfortable lead instead of tied 7-7, but that’s the way Washington likes it. Keep it at a coin flip. If the Skins have a 7 point lead and a field goal will make it 10 in the 4th quarter I know they will screw up the field goal somehow.
My Take is...
The Skins are better than last years team but it is because some other teams have fallen of pace from previous years. The reason we have improved is because we have a better coaching staff and special teams are 100% better due in large to the play of Banks and its obvious the Skins need to hope they can fill the needs they need in the draft and get more giddy up in the defense and till then don`t lose the focus on improving weekly. I can wait since it is the most important thing about getting the right people and competing against the best four in Febuary.
We don't have much talent
And it’s because of the “win now” mentality and the refusal to admit we need to rebuild. As long as we keep trading draft picks for players we’re going to be in this situation. Good teams are built through the draft with very few FA signings and we keep trying to do it the exact opposite way. 20 years of this BS and they still haven’t figured out that it doesn’t work. It’s ridiculous!
10-6 is not just improbable, it would take a miracle
More disheartening to me than anything else is the refusal of the coaches to make adjustments. It nearly feels like Zorn is in charge again. Running the 3-4 with our personnel is awful yet we stick with it. Our offensive scheme is awful, yet we stick with it. And the off season moves for Jamal Brown and McNabb were made to win now and not about the future so we don’t they adjust the schemes to win now?
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