Redskins 3rd Downs Statistics Are Worse Than You Ever Imagined
by Kevin Ewoldt on Nov 16, 2010 12:20 PM EST
in Redskins Analysis
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PrintBefore I get into my thoughts of the future of this franchise, here's some quick stats from last night's game that piss me off the most:
Redskins Offense: 0-10 on 3rd downs.
McNabb: All three INTs came on 3rd down.
- The Redskins now boast a 32nd ranked offense in 3rd down conversions at 22%. The next closest team is 7% points higher. Wow. The Falcons have converted 68 3rd downs to our 24, which is not even 3 a game.
- Vick had a full 8 seconds before his TD pass to Jason Avant (and even then there was ZERO Redskins defenders near him). It was a rush 4 with Carter as LDE, Golston, Haynesworth, and Orakpo as RDE. Awful.
Michael Vick was a perfect 5-for-5 when the Redskins had 7 defenders in the box, with 2 touchdowns, a 158.3 passer rating and 30.6 yards per attempt.
Three of Michael Vick's touchdown passes came with 3-or-more WRs on the field. Vick came into Week 10 with a league best 102.9 passer rating in those personnel groups. [espn]
- Haynesworth: "We got outcoached. We got outplayed. They did everything right." STFU.
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I'm just curious
Why the Kool-Aid drinkers refuse to hold the head coach and his coaching staff for losses like this?
If you want to say it’s the players, then my answer to you is-who picked the players?
We have been at the bottom of a lot of NFL stats all year long. A lot of those high on Kool-Aid keeps saying things are better-how? Please explain it to me
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
in my mind
Cerrato is off the hook for everything after this season.
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Nov 16, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
why that long? really…who changed the defense? who traded away our draft? with the same coaches. this is a better team running the 4-3 defense with no free agent signings and drafting only offensive linemen for the first five picks and JC running the show.
by les boulez bomber on Nov 16, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
Pretty hard to disagree with that
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Nov 16, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
same coaches means this coaching staff…def an upgrade over last year. my point is simply they are too cute and complex. and dont have the players. but like arrogant fools they act like they do. we are better served keeping our picks and drafting guys that can block and tackle.
by les boulez bomber on Nov 16, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
That's what I was agreeing with
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Nov 16, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
He got handed the worst OLine I’ve ever seen…plus horrible RBs, no depth at WRs…no QB….gotta give a guy a year to clean up a mess.
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Nov 16, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
so many holes
and he trades away three draft picks, one of which was for Jammal Brown?
This is increasingly more & more his responsibility
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
yea, trading a pick for a Pro-Bowl Tackle seemed good at the time. We weren’t there doing the physical tests on Brown…he could have had a set back in camp…either way, trading a non-top pick for a Tackle is hard to berate.
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Nov 16, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Don't call him a pro bowl tackle
he hadn’t played in two seasons.
he was an injury risk coming off a major injury who hadn’t played at an elite level in years.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
But he went to the Pro Bowl, therefore he is and will always be a Pro Bowl tackle...
I think Brown can still be good for the next couple of years, he needs someone reliable beside him…
Actually, he needs to get over the hip injury
A tall task for such a big man.
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Nov 16, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
semantics games are fun
but we didn’t get a pro bowl caliber player.
we got an ex-pro bowler.
if you need help understanding the difference, I can help
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Fine
he hadn’t played in two one season.
he was an injury risk coming off a major injury who hadn’t played at an elite level in years.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
He was in the 2008 Pro Bowl.
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Nov 16, 2010 5:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Semantics games are fun
But Brown’s shitty play speaks for itself.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I didn't think he did HORRIBLY
against the Eagles. The one time I saw him get manhandled was when he slipped after it started raining.
Admittedly, I wasn’t watching him for the entire game
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
yeah but the OL has improved
If you consider our OL last year w/o Samuels and then look at what we have this year by adding Williams and Brown (at least on paper) then it should be a better OL.
THAT'S ABSURD
It was Cerrato who left this team with no depth, no young talent, precious few draft picks and the ones he did pick….like Thomas, Kelly, Reinhardt, et al….were garbage.
He didn't say After this season
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Nov 16, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
Crappy microphone-he DID say...
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Nov 16, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
true and shanallen wasted what was left. am i mistaken or do we have just one starter from the entire draft?
brown cant even keep heyer off the field
and mcnabb has not played any better than jc this year
by les boulez bomber on Nov 16, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
it's sad that Brown can't outplay Heyer
as Heyer was down right atrocious last year. He shouldn’t be more than a desperation player.
I thought the plan with
the Brown/Heyer rotation is that Brown still doesn’t have full mobility and Heyer gives him a breather.
BTW, Heyer is still atrocious.
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
I'll explain it you when you're eating crow in 2 or 3 years...
And who hasn’t held the coaching staff accountable? Where have you seen that? 99% of the post here are about the Front Office and how that is the problem.
And once again in regards to who picked the players, this team was STRIPPED! Who the hell were we supposed to bring in, please post a list, as loooong as you want of players we could of gotten this offseason that would have made a real difference on this team. There was no one out there, so they went with some vets and character guys to hopefully mentor and prepare this team for the future.
by Parks Smith on Nov 16, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
I would start with almost every one of the players who was let go the day Shanahan arrived.
Yes, I know ARE was terrible as a punt returner, but he was a very good third receiver
rock Cartwright was a special teams captain and was never given a chance to compete for a job.
Others who were never given a chance to compete were Jason Campbell, and Ledell Betts.
It was not Mike Shanahan’s fault that big Mike Williams went down, but can you honestly tell me that Derek Dockery wouldn’t be a better choice at either guard position right now?
I know that a lot of these moves were salary cap decisions, but they could have just as well been made at the end of the season.
We basically fired a very good defensive front four to hier players such as holiday, green, and Bryant-might as well throw Kemoeatu in there as well.
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Nov 16, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
- Randle El is just as terrible as anyone else we have out there… Look at his stats this year… If we would have re-signed Randle El then Banks wouldn’t be here
- Ladell Betts? Really? We are at least trying out some young back now to fit in Shanny’s system. Betts is injury prone and would have retarded the growth of the other backs.
- Jason Campbell had his chance to compete for several years.
- I don’t really think Rock adds anything and I truly don’t know who is best at Guard b/c I’m not at practice, I default to the head coach here.
So basically you want the 2009 Washington Redskins? Great idea…
I thought we’d be competitive this year and be an 8-8 team, and we’re on pace for that. I think 99.9% of the people here realized that this was a marathon not a sprint. Shanahan and Allen had to go to the junkyard to piece together a team and start building a team for the future. Giving some guys contracts that you mentioned would of hampered this teams future on the field and in the front office. Did you think this team, this year was going to the Super Bowl? I don’t think so… So what are you bitching about, give it some time… If we’re in the same situation this time next year then you can bitch away, until then I’m not going to judge this book based on Chapter 1.
Your points one at a time
Randle El Would be just as good a mentor to the younger guys that everyone claimed Joey Galloway would be, he would just be more productive than Galloway.
Ladell Betts? One could make the argument that he’s more productive than Larry Johnson or Willie Parker, but I guess we’ll never know since he was cut before getting a chance to prove it. It is interesting that Ladell Betts is playing in the NFL and those other two are not.
I think I can make a pretty strong argument that Jason Campbell is better than Rex Grossman. And I know that you’re going to say better to have traded him then letting him get to free agency. But we traded him for a bag of beans for Christ’s sake.
Cartwright could have added leadership on special teams, and as you can see, we are really short on special teams players-starters are playing teams.
Derek Dockery would not get run over on every play like Artis Hicks is, and Liechtensteiger is just inconsistent, you can’t say that about Dockery.
I think it’s unfair to say that I wanted to 2009 Washington Redskins. But if you took that team and added a few good players on both sides of the line with the coaching staff that we have, that hypothetical team would be better I think.
So you think last night was an example of being competitive? We are not far off on our predictions you said eight and eight; I said six and 10-we’ll see who’s right in about seven more games.
I know this is chapter 1 for you, but it’s more like chapter 22 for me and some of the older guys-there is absolutely nothing new here, just the names.
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Nov 16, 2010 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
But if you took that team and added a few good players on both sides of the line with the coaching staff that we have, that hypothetical team would be better I think.
Once again…WHO ARE THE GOOD PLAYERS???
Everyone you mentioned you admitted they would be a back up or at the very least a small role player. Please some one show me who you would of added for this year.
Cool its Chapter 22 for you, I’ve been following this team a long time, my whole life, you called out the coaches and you can’t judge this regimes success based on 9 games. This roster was total crap when Allen and Shanahan came to town.
I called out Shanahan specifically
Because I still follow the team I grew up with the Oakland Raiders and Denver is our biggest rival.
I am old enough to remember the 1 1/2 years that Shanahan TRIED to coach the Raiders, it was a disaster, he was fired midseason.
After that I had to watch that arrogant bastard coach the Denver offense and then the total team. He had his heyday, it’s over. He’s just yet another retread ,in flexible, arrogant has-been. Same thing with Hazlitt and don’t even get me started on the younger Kyle.
You are right we have no good players (Trent Williams excepted) and with this regime, we will continue to have no good players.
THIS is what we are "bitching" about
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Nov 16, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
So you're judging the Redskins staff based off your love for the Oakland Raiders? Really?
You are right we have no good players (Trent Williams excepted) and with this regime, we will continue to have no good players.
THIS is what we are “bitching” about
This remains to be seen…
You know that's not what I'm saying
What I’m saying is that I’ve been exposed to Mike Shanahan for much longer than most here.
And as far as "this remains to be seen" ,again, I’ve seen this movie before, it’s a remake, of a remake, of a remake-I don’t give a crap that the names are different. The plot is the same and so is the ending of the story.
Sorry to have to spoil it for you
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Nov 16, 2010 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
You just said he "torched" you when he was in Denver!
Wouldn’t that be a good thing? If you know what the ending of this story is then why support this team, why not just support the Raiders?
Sorry Shanahan has left a sour taste in your mouth elsewhere, but your argument is flawed. But I forgot you had a crystal ball.
I seriously think a lot of people here would be legitimately upset if we won a Super Bowl, and that you just enjoying bitching about something every week.
I can't find where I said torched anywhere in this thread
"My argument is flawed" go talk to a few Denver fans over on their board, see what they have to say about him.
"A lot of people here would be legitimately upset if we won a Super Bowl" I was a fan of the Redskins way before they won three Super Bowl’s and lost one. This isn’t my first rodeo-I used to own a shirt that said "the Pardee has just begun".
I’m really starting to take offense at your insinuating my being a fair weather fan, or a bandwagoner.I I may have different views than you about this team, but I had never questioned your loyalty as a fan and I think I deserve the same from you.
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Nov 16, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think your a fair weather fan or a bandwagoner at all...
Just an internal pessimistic view about the team for literally the 20 or 30 years (yea Snyder will still be around) gets old day after day, especially when ShanAllen were given the keys to the shittiest car in the league… I think given Shanahan’s track record he deserves more than 9 games for anyone to pass judgment on what he is doing with this team.
Just for the record this doesn't sound like a Skins fan though...
Because I still follow the team I grew up with the Oakland Raiders and Denver is our biggest rival.
True that
The Redskins are my number one team now. The Raiders have had to play second ever since 1977.
That should read "their biggest rival."
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Nov 16, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
I get what you're saying
And I really don’t like being pessimistic about my team. But I really need something substantial as far as change goes to get me back on the optimist side.
I’m willing to give Shanahan more time to show me something; hell, I’ve given everybody else the last 10 years a year or two.
I can’t say I will be optimistic until I see a reason to change my mind, but I will try to be less pessimistic and point out the few positives that I see whenever possible.
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Nov 16, 2010 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
what track record? as a VP
it ain’t good
Shanahan’s track record
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Once again Smuts, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT COACHES....
I know and everyone knows:
- You don’t like Shanahan
- You don’t like Allen
- You don’t like Snyder
- You don’t like McNabb
- You don’t like me
- You hate trading draft picks
- You like stats and numbers
- You want to spend high draft picks on the offensive line
Do we really need to voice the same thing every, single day?
I always DISCUSS the TOPIC AT HAND on this MESSAGE BOARD
I enjoy your repeated criticism though.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Whoa...
Shanny was fired after going 8-8 in OAK, then started slow the next year. He wasn’t given much of a chance, but still did OK. Hmm..sounds familiar.
Shanny also had ZERO control over personnel, which was a disaster. Hmm, sounds familiar.
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Nov 16, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
wait, what?
Shanny also had ZERO control over personnel, which was a disaster.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
He's talking about the Raiders scenario
And I guess the familiar part refers to the Zorn era
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Nov 16, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
this is chapter 1
and I’ll agree that Allen/Shanahan started with a stripped team but they also aren’t game planning for the players we have. We should be running a 4-3 defense if they are really trying to win games. And Shanahan the OC is getting worse results with better players. I consider McNabb a clear upgrade to Campbell and Armstrong is doing as well as any other WR did last year plus we have Banks now. Yeah, this isn’t a vastly better team but it is better than what we had last year and last year we were in every game – we never got totally blown out like we did this week.
McNabb's production hasn't been worth the 2 draft picks
As I said before the season, we weren’t contenders, so giving up resources for a veteran QB is a pointless lateral move.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
exactly why I didn't like the move
Signing McNabb was driven by the “the future is now” mentality which ignores the fact that we need to rebuild.
Watching this organization repeats it’s own mistakes every 2-3 years is tortuous.
Kool aid spilled all over my coffee table
I try and put positive spins on crap all the time, and I typically will give 1st year coaches a fair amount of rope, but doing THIS off of a BYE???
That’s a complete failure on the coaches.
what you've just said... is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
it's everyone
Owner – for not creating a good organizational structure and hiring a real GM for years. Maybe he’s fixed that but years of neglect/abuse don’t get fixed in a single season.
Owner/GM – for not hiring the right coaching staff. This year the hiring of the coaches falls on Allen but up until this year it was all Snyder.
Head Coach – for hiring grossly incompetent Defenseive and Offensive Coordinators. An immediate fix is going back to the top 10 defense we had last year.
Players – It would take a book to list all the poor performances from the OL getting pushed around on virtually every play to dropped passes to missed tackles.
I don’t give anyone a pass for their job performance in that game.
Grades
Coaching = F-
Coordinating the game plan = F-
Offense = F-
Defense = F- can I go lower since they gave up 45 points in the first half?
Special Teams = F-
Well Ronnie Brown was one play from being their quarterback next week
I’m sure they worked out more than just one quarterback.
But if it were me I’d take Ronnie Brown over Ja Marcus Russell any day
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Nov 16, 2010 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
It's because we're the laughing stock of the NFL.
Any boneheaded move we make, gets national media attention.
why does the truth have to hurt so much?
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
lately we spend our time losing to them
just sayin
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
The Fins also didnt just mortgage their future for one of the biggest names in football and then bench him.
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Nov 16, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
well
at least I managed to win my fantasy matchup this week with half of my roster on a BYE…
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
Hahaaha
Ken started the Redskins D this week…-81 points. sucker.
Hogs Haven. On Twitter. And Facebook.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Nov 16, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
Uhhh Jim Haslett...
Come on man, you had an extra week…
As bad as our D was, this game showed us more that we need a WR.
Skins rule
I just decided to leave it alone
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
As an Eagles fan.....wow
....Is on the Vick Bus, which oddly enough looks like a dog catchers truck!
by SpursEaglesFanSanAntonio on Nov 16, 2010 2:53 PM EST reply actions
100 million dollar man!!! lol
Enjoy McNabb
....Is on the Vick Bus, which oddly enough looks like a dog catchers truck!
by SpursEaglesFanSanAntonio on Nov 16, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
"but he's not our usual over priced free agent signing!!!"
- kool aid drinkers, summer, 2009.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Good call
Without that push in the back we would have settled for a FG and only won 55-28
I love pit-bulls, and I love Vick too. I'm a complicated man.
he got a good nap while he was on the ground
and yet people say he came to training camp in shape.
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