Redskins-Colts Winners and Losers
by ThaRak on Oct 18, 2010 2:27 PM EDT
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Ryan Torain: Awesome day for the ATV. He showed surprising speed to the edge, and the Colts had their hands full trying to bring him down. The spin move he threw to shuck Mathis in the backfield was jaw-dropping, and he consistently got yards after first contact.
Lorenzo Alexander: Yet another huge day on special teams. I'm honestly surprised every time a returner manages to hold on to the ball after an Alexander hit in coverage. The Redskins have a dilemma on their hands: he's too valuable at LB to risk on special teams, and too good in kick coverage not to.
Mike Sellers: Great run blocking and taking dump-off passes for big gains, and even more huge special teams hits. It seems like every week, Sellers and Alexander are taking people's heads off in kick coverage. I was skeptical about Sellers' new role in the offense, but if he can catch them and rumble like he did this week, he's a real threat.
Brandon Banks: It's just a matter of (short) time before this kid takes one to the house. He's stupid fast, but he also has underrated vision and instincts as a returner. And apparently a blocked field goal too?
Santana Moss: Everybody knows he's our #1 receiving threat. So how does he still manage to get so wide open so often?
London Fletcher: 7 tackles and a forced fumble. No big deal.
Anthony Armstrong: 5 catches, and officially way better than Joey Galloway.
Donovan McNabb: He was disappointing on the last two possessions, and he had a couple of bad plays earlier too, but he also made alot of plays in a collapsing pocket. The Skins made 4 trips to the red zone and came away with 3 touchdowns because of McNabb and Torain making plays. Also, moved past Troy Aikman on the all-time completions list.
[Edit] Brian Orakpo: Forced a huge fumble. It was also the only time that I remember a replay being shown zoomed in on Orakpo, and he was getting flagrantly held by the facemask. Makes you wonder if there were more that went uncalled.
Losers
Jim Haslett: Look, Peyton Manning is the best QB in the league, and probably one of the best ever. That doesn't mean you throw away the whole football handbook when you go against him. Our DL and LBs were clearly uncomfortable with that stand-up-and-dance-around presnap formation. The pass rush was totally ineffective because our rushers were standing tall and losing leverage. The secondary got picked apart, and our 6 DB personnel packages were abused by the running game. If their receivers are breaking our zones anyway, why not try coming out of a conventional 3-4 or 4-3 and bringing some pressure? Why were there no adjustments at halftime, when we were obviously getting torched? The sad thing is, the Colts' O-line is hardly a dominant unit, and we didn't even test them.
Carlos Rogers: Catch. The. Ball.
Kareem Moore: How do the Redskins manage to identify and develop so many stone-handed DBs?
The O-Line: McNabb almost always had his own linemen in his face when he dropped back to pass. They opened some holes for Torain, but they also couldn't keep him clean in the backfield on several plays. Freeney is elite, but Trent Williams has held his own against elite rushers before, which makes me wonder if he's not 100% healthy.
Graham Gano: A 48 yarder is no chip shot, and it's definitely not guaranteed points. But Gano is starting to show an alarming tendency to shank on longer kicks. He has the leg strength to hit from 60, but he seems to lose all control when he's kicking from over 45 yards or so. With the Skins playing so many close games, those misses really hurt.
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Rak should be a winner with a sack fumble.
and Haslett isn’t a loser after this game.
The movement in the front seven actually did speed up Peyton’s throwing and caused him to throw some bad balls. The problem is that without being able to sub, or really change plays to speak of, you can’t do much creative.
As Shanahan said pre-game, you have to have a plan for Manning in the first half and a separate plan for the second half. As you mention, they actually did come out with more conventional 3 and 4 man fronts in the second half.
by SSBlitz on Oct 18, 2010 4:07 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I thought about Rak as a winner with the fumble, but the problem was that there wasn’t any consistent pressure on Manning. That’s not all on Rak though, because even when he beat his tackle to the outside, Manning could just step up and avoid it because the interior line wasn’t getting pushed back.
As for Haslett, I thought we were trying too hard to win the head-game with Manning. I’d rather see the down linemen lining up and collapsing the pocket, and our LBs getting some licks in. You can’t call the next play as quickly if you start out at the bottom of a pile. But I agree, Manning’s tempo just makes everything much more difficult.
Bored and broke.
Actually, I'll put him up there
Either he should be up there or Alexander shouldn’t
Bored and broke.
I totally agree with SSBlitz, Haslett was not a 'loser' in this game
Haslett called a good game. Like SSBlitz said above, our front movement caused Peyton to move faster than the commentators had ever seen. The caveat was that our personnel couldn’t keep up. The worst defensive lapses IMO had zero to do with the scheme, especially as later in the game the defense time & time again gave us additional lives to win the game, and everything to do with DBs not staying tight on assignment & dropping what should have been interceptions.
by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Oct 18, 2010 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
and as for collapsing the pocket
it’s well known that Manning has one of the most consistent pass protection schemes around him, year in & year out he’s almost always a leader in fewest pressures, knock-downs, and sacks. I think if we had tried a more conventional attack ‘trying to get licks in’ I think the weakness of our front personnel vs. the Colts’ offensive line & additional protectors like Clark & Addai would have been exacerbated even further, & the margin of loss would have been much wider.
by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Oct 18, 2010 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Well...
I’m not too sure that’s the case. I really think Manning was planning on quick throws all game especially when we put in our standing personnel. Our linebackers were sprinting/blitzing every play with only about 15 seconds to catch their breath and with no way to change players out, the middle opened up really nice. for peyton. Even more so since we were missing Haynesworth and Rocky in the middle of the field. If our secondary didn’t drop so many sure picks, this game would have been a win.
by Nobetterthenbob on Oct 18, 2010 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree. Haslett had a great game plan.
If Rogers and Moore had snagged the three INT’s that were all but gift-wrapped for them, we’d all be on here talking about what a genius Haslett is. His players just need to execute, because at least two of those INT’s would have prevented the Colts from scoring points.
by ScribbledNotes on Oct 19, 2010 7:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I said this
on another post, so sorry for repeating myself.
I think Rak is a monster, and I think he’ll be among the best for years to come. But he NEEDS to develop some counter moves. Everytime I see him, he’s running aroundthr outside of the tackle. Yesterday reminded me too much of Bruce Smith – the Redskin years. Manning was able to step up in the pocket while the LT just guided Rak right by him way too many times. I get EXTREMELY upset when I see him getting held (which is probably 90% of the time), but I also wonder how come this doesn’t stop guys like Freeney, Ware, or Cole from getting sacks? I think it’s because they chsnge things up more, making it harder for the O-linemen to get ahold of them.
Look, I’m not bashing Rak. He’s probably my favorite player on the team. But the word is obviously out on him that the way to stop him is to hold him, cuz it’ll only be called half the time, it just keep him to the outside and have your QB step up.
by CJHutch on Oct 18, 2010 7:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I disagree about Gano
only because I like the guy. He’s really talented and could be a great kicker some day.
I mean, he’s not Suisham, let’s thank the heavens for that. Remember when Suisham missed 3 game tying/winning field goals 3 games in a row? So far, Gano has been far more consistant.
Question: Woody, what happened to the ball movement? Answer: I think our defense was pretty solid tonight. We held them to under 200 points so we did our job on that end.
I think Gano is here for the long haul
He has the leg strength, you can see that on kickoffs. And he can be accurate too- most of his shorter kicks are right down the middle. Now he just has to put them together, and keep his accuracy when he’s kicking them longer
Bored and broke.
I love it when Gano
puts the KO in the coffin corner. Didn’t see it this last game, but usually he nails it once or twice and just forces the returner to catch the ball on the 5 in tight containment. I think his consistency and accuracy on KOs is one of the reason Lorenzo and Sellers, etc. are getting such huge hits on KO returns. I’ve also noticed that there seems to be a competition brewing on STs to see who can come up with big hits and big plays. I likee that.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
+1
our ST play is really giving us momentum, the whole team is getting pumped whenever Banks, LoAx or Sellers makes a play
I was surprised that the Skins ST were rated 15th by Football Outsiders (not including week 6). There has been one good
punt return against the Skins punt coverage. Banks will improve the rating on the Skins punt return unit. The blocked field goal and some other missed field goal attempts bring that unit down. Biden did not have the best punting figures. Let’s see something more current: 2010 SPECIAL TEAMS RATINGS Regular season totals, through Week 6 – http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst “This page lists an estimate of how many points, compared to league average, each team receives from the five elements of special teams: field goals/extra points, kickoffs, kick returns, punts, punt returns. The total is then converted into a DVOA percentage so that it can be added in to offense and defense to create total team DVOA.” The Skins ST were rated at 21st last week. Positive numbers indicate higheer rating, i.e., Seattle’s ST DVOA was 16.9%. The Skins kick off unit has one of the highest ratings at 7.7 and the other positive is the punt return unit at 2.6. The big negative was the punting unit at -8.3, followed by the field goal-extra point unit at -4.6. A look at FO’s methodology is necessary to understand the ratings in the various categories.
by Jefferson1935 on Oct 20, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
David Akers was what, 1-4 yesterday? And the Eagles won by how much? My point is that it shouldn’t have come down to a 3 point difference. On a day when our secondary couldn’t catch a cold, I watched two of the most amazing catches ever. So far this year, I have seen linebackers, line judges, and neighborhood kids who can catch better than Carlos Rodgers. It’s not asking a lot. It’s not like I’m asking Zoolander to turn left here. I’m asking a professional athlete to spot the ball, estimate its velocity and distance, and flex his fingers around the ball when it reaches the optimal position in his hands. Rob Ninkovich had two interceptions in the same game for the Patriots, and he’s a friggin’ linebacker. Please Carlos, get your eyes checked.
But you forget....
Half the OL is injured and going against the best pair of DE in the game. The other half minus Rabach is castoffs. Then there’s Rabach who is too light to take on NT’s.
Haslett has to try something different that maybe Manning will not have seen or forgotten and “supposedly” he has an injured OL as well. Well they hardly mussed his hair or dirtied his jersey. Trouble is it’s not just Manning. This D has given up 400+ yards to the Little Sisters of the Poor and maybe the PeeWee leagues as well.
McNabb has been all over the place with a “48” QB rating in one half and a “108” in the other. Some of his passes appear like they’re aimed at killing moles more than the receiver. This team needs some help and it’s next year away I fear.
WR corps is servicable, just need to get a big-body who isn’t a headcase or made of glass, doesn’t even have to be a superstar type.
As always, it comes down to having more youth and depth on both lines. need line depth out the ass these days. that’s how the steelers and titans do it. titans got like 9 serviceable d-lineman they keep rotating. serviceable guys who never have the chance to get tired are better than bigger names who are tired by the 2nd half.
McNabb has always thrown too many wormburners, and it ain’t gonna stop now, but he’s won a ton of games so i can overlook the wormburners
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
by eastcoastatlas on Oct 18, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of the McNabb bounce passes
The commentators had an interesting bit on his footwork while throwing. He takes a big step forward and shifts his weight alot while throwing – I wonder if that’s why he has a tendency to hurl passes into the ground?
Bored and broke.
Yeah I remember reading that last week too
When QBs move around and throw on the run they tend to shorten their delivery which causes bounce passes.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Mcnabb’s bounce passes usually come when he actually has almost “too much” time to stand tall in the pocket, not when he’s on the run. when he has too much time, like Rak said, he lets his feet creep together before his delivery, which causes a very long stride when he does throw. i don’t know the actual physics of the whole thing, but that long stride, according to Collinsworth (take that as you may), apparently can lead him to have too late a release point or whatever.
then again, it all could have nothing to do with the one footwark flaw that Cheese Cheesinsworth pointed out and maybe Mcnabb just has bad release timing sometimes for no real reason other than the timer in his head.
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
by eastcoastatlas on Oct 18, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
But he also made the point...
That McNabb is an eleven year veteran from a pass happy offense and in all likelihood you’re not going to change his footwork or release.
by DudleyDoright on Oct 19, 2010 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I'll take his numbers over time any day
Numbers = completion%, TD vs INT, Wins vs Losses. He actually did a lot of amazing Houdini footwork to escape the rush throughout the game just to even get passes off. With just a little more time and a stable pocket we would be way better off.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
O-Line / D-Line
Lack of a legitimate NT is killing us as we attempt to play a 3-4 defense. The Colts were gashing us on the run ( & this was one of the worst running teams by yardage in the NFL ) & it is because we have no stopper in he middle. Like b.atlas said above, it doesn’t need to be superstars but it does have to be starters that we can rotate thru the game. Our offensive line has got to get better, DM seemed to be making plays on the run all game & ATV ( who IMHO is a beast ) was constantly hit & shedding tacklers behind the line to make positive gains. It sucks we lost last night but these guys never gave up & had a chance at the end for the upset. I think that next years draft we need to go LINE, LINE & then some more LINE on both sides of the ball & if Mankins or McNeill are available as FAs then we need to go after them
The Skins played a dime package most of the time. Doughty was playing LB in it. They were not playing a 3-4 most of the time.
by Jefferson1935 on Oct 18, 2010 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Also,
the beauty of Manning’s offense is that they hurry up a lot and it makes it hard to substitute players even if you are deep in linemen. This tires out the D even more, which effects pass rushing and tackling the most.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Wether we were playing a 3-4 against the Colts
or a different scheme for this game is not really the point I am trying to make. Our base Defense is a 3-4, we need a REAL NT to be able to run a 3-4, not Kemo, Holliday or a disgruntled Haynesworth. Even if we were playing a different defense ( & I am not sure that is true with the jumping around pre-snap that was going on ) we still need a runstopper to plug up the middle.
Gano only has two misses that weren't blocks
Graham Gano: A 48 yarder is no chip shot, and it’s definitely not guaranteed points. But Gano is starting to show an alarming tendency to shank on longer kicks. He has the leg strength to hit from 60, but he seems to lose all control when he’s kicking from over 45 yards or so. With the Skins playing so many close games, those misses really hurt.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
right but that's not yet a 'tendency'
that sample size is too small to glean anything
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I thought the mush-rush was fine at first, but Haslett stuck with it too long.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
it was never fine. it is never fine unless you’re going against an inexperienced QB who is still susceptible to confusion. you give up sooooooo much leverage playing that way. that style was the sole reason the interior line was never able to hold their position. every time they actually stayed down and played a real defense, be it 3-4 or 4-3, they were able to hold the line and allow the outside guys to at least get a little pressure. Haslett is constantly trying to overthink everything, and it’s becoming abundantly clear that he just ain’t that great a thinker.
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
by eastcoastatlas on Oct 18, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
please tell me Brandon Lloyd is your actual name and that you didn’t use the football player Brandon Lloyd as an inspiration for your screenname when you created it in september 09, a full year and a half after he was cut by the redskins and when he still sucked.
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
by eastcoastatlas on Oct 18, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Dline movement. Stupid.
I assume the line movement was supposed to confuse the colts protection scheme and result in untouched rushers smashing into manning. That never happened, not once the entire game. What this defense did instead was have a bunch of standing lineman get pushed back 10 yards on every running play. Do you really think the colts runs for all those yards if we played our men down in the dirt like a real coach would of? The fact that they didn’t change this in the second half was frustrating the hell out of me. Stupid gimick the colts just exploited the BEEP out of. It didn’t confuse anyone but the redskins as they watched the colts steamroll down the field for huge gains.
You know we’ve beaten the colts before with more tradition defenses right? KC layed a pretty nice blueprint for frustrating manning. They didn’t win but they couldn’t score any points. I like haslet so far this season, but this game he gets a big fat D- for that movement bullhoney.
Coaches need to call a game to their players strength, not devise new weaknesses for them.
The Beat Box aka skins secondary.
Once again...
…if Carlos and Kareem catch those interceptions, then Haslett looks absolutely rosy on here today.
Really, I’m more frustrated by how bad that sweep toss to Torain was when it killed our two-minute drive at the end of the game.
by ScribbledNotes on Oct 19, 2010 7:59 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
the confusion worked, we were in position to get 3 take aways because a confused peyton manning threw balls directly into the hands of our DB’s…
too bad Haslett’s scheme made it so these NFL caliber DB’s can’t catch a duck… gimme a break, the scheme was not the problem here.
Carlos Rogers
I love Rogers sooo much, and he was covering so strong, but god damnit! You are a few interceptions away from being the next top corner in the league, but you can’t do it! He is a good corner, but he’ll never be elite until he makes a god damn interception. Great coverage.
I think you left off Philip Bucanon, who, in the clutch, maned up on Reggie Fucking Wayne, had two pass deflections to give his offense the ball, 2:30 with 3 timeouts. Huge for him.
And Trent Williams showed me something. He really had Freeney 90% of the time, and showed me that he was the right LT for us and that he is a cornerstone for years on this team. It is only a matter of time before he starts becoming elite.
I agree on Buchanon
I was wildly impressed with the D as a whole on that possession. You give the ball back to Manning with 2:45 to go, up by 3, and he needs to get two first downs to win the game? He does that 85% of the time (completely made up stat, but it at least seems like that is accurate). Buchanon mans up on Wayne, and the D as a whole gives the ball back to McNabb w/ a chance to win. It was a great moment for me as a fan and for the Skins as a team. There is no such thing as a good loss, but that was damn close. These boys clearly care, which is more than we could have said for the team during the Zorn era. Now, if we can just get to 5-3 before the bye, we have a punchers’ chance in the division…
Who has more butter on his hands, Dwayne Bowe or Carlos Rogers
Literally every time I’ve seen Rogers play he drops what are relatively easy interceptions for other players with substantially less physical talent.
by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Oct 18, 2010 9:55 PM EDT reply actions
I think you need to add doughty to the losers
He gave up a big play to clark when we had shut him down all day because he went for the ball and not the man. Can someone tell me why he was on Clark on that play? He’s peyton’s go-to guy in crunch time.
by Nobetterthenbob on Oct 18, 2010 10:08 PM EDT reply actions
First I'd say
That Doughty is a strong safety and not necessarily a great pass coverage guy and second there aren’t many people who have shut down Clark. That’s why he’s Manning’s goto guy. He’s similar to but better than Cooley. Add in the Manning factor which can carve up pretty much any defense and there’s the answer.
by DudleyDoright on Oct 19, 2010 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions
"That Doughty is a strong safety and not necessarily a great pass coverage guy "
That’s my point. Why did we put him on Clark in the first place? Clark has every advantage in that match up.
by Nobetterthenbob on Oct 19, 2010 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Doughty's coverage wasn't awful on that play
he just got beaten by two of the best in the league, IMO
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
It wasn't the coverage so much...
as the decision he made. If he goes after the man we are saved from quite a few yards, but he went for the ball and it turned into 44.
by Nobetterthenbob on Oct 19, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
REDSKINS TRADE I WOULD LIKE TO SEE.
The Redskins should trade their second round 2011 pick for Logan Mankins of the Patriots. This would give them another Pro Bowl starter on the O line and increase their reserve depth.
I should add
Mankin is a beast. He can do everything!!!!
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
give him a cool nick name then people will jump on board
Logan “The Less than Lethal Weapon” Mankin
What's so funny?
Everybody knows that once a bunch of fans and journos vote you to a pro bowl, you are guaranteed to dominate forever. And who cares if the Patriots didn’t want to keep him – that organization knows nothing about personnel.
Bored and broke.
I was really just commenting on Smutty
He is hell-bent never to give up another draft pick. :)
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Losers
Totally agree with your assessment.
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