Break It Down: Redskins 2009 Offensive Line Stats in Extremely Fine Detail
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jan 27, 2010 10:56 AM EST
in Redskins Analysis
105 comments
Yesterday we covered Jason Campbell, now it's time to review the guys that shamefully protect him. It's almost not fair to discredit a line where only 2 of the 5 starters played all 1026 snaps and the RG position saw EIGHT different starters. However, it is fair to cast blame on the man who built this line since as fans we knew it would not hold after the 2008 season (which is why the "I survived the Vinny Cerrato era" t-shirts relate so much more).
We all know the run blocking was brutal (though respectful at times late in the season). I am going to focus on the pass blocking since QB has always been the hot topic of need this decade week.
The first thing that stands out is how poorly Levi Jones ranks (dead last).
I thought he played well, and I actually emailed PFF after the first Dallas game to debate it. His response:
Try and find me one single positive contribution in the running game where he actually helped a running back get significantly more yards. I watch and grade about 70 hours of football a week and I think it's simply impossible to judge offensive linemen without following them individually 3-4 times a play.
As for the pass blocking:
By the definitions we use for hits and hurries its impossible for an OL to get beat, get downgraded, and it not affect the QB. So, if a QB is hurried he has had to take some form of evasive action and hence, even if he still makes a great throw, that's down to enhanced play on behalf of the QB, not anything the OL has done. If you go back over our Evan Mathis interview he intimates that we are slightly lenient on hurries as his OL coach expects him not only to keep the QB clean but to keep a certain buffer too.
Well, that pretty much confirms for Levi isn't worth inking in as the 2010 starting LT. With some off-season work, perhaps he can compete for a starting spot, but at worst, he is a decent backup. I broke down Levi's individual stats after the jump, with which DE he was facing, and it is clear Levi had some pass blocking issues.
Redskins Rushing Rank: 27th (94.4 yards per game)
Redskins Passing Rank: 16th (218.1 yards per game)
The Skins porous rushing rank also highlights Sellers inept blocking. That DET goal line play where he made no effort and Portis asked for his benching still burns me. Seven of the team's starting blockers are the WORST blockers. Yikes. I am looking forward to seeing what Shanahan does with this mess because building an O-line is not a 1-year fix.
Chris Samuels was playing hurt from OTAs, which SHOULD have been a red flag to the Redskins front office. Mike Williams played well in run defense, but still has a lot of training to do with his foot-work. I noticed it in training camp, and it's clear opponents were able to get though. So, what do we do with all these guys? Shanahan I'd imagine will want to clean house. I'd be surprised to see anyone but Dockery and Rabach starting next year from the current OL roster.
As a quick note, I pulled up the stats for Jeremy Bridges and Jon Jansen. Although they were not stellar rankings, their numbers bested all the RGs the Skins fielded. Another resume builder move for Jim Zorn and Vinny Cerrato letting them go. Also, Jon Runyan, who was a free agent until week 13, played solid in all games he competed in.
Note: PFF has gained some national attention even being linked by Peter King. We obviously don't watch film like this site does, so basing judgement on their findings is more accurate than anything I could come up with. The Football Outsiders being #1.
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So we need a minimum of 3 starting OL
Ouch, that’s going to be hard, especially when 1 of them has to play LT.
Note that Heyer was the 2nd worst player (not just 2nd worst OL) and only slightly better than Levi Jones.
It looks like Randy Thomas was better than Rabach, hopefully he’ll be able tr return but I think it would be foolish to expect it.
There's a better chance Bin Laden wins the Nobel Peace Prize than R. Thomas returning.
"It was one of those things where everyone in the building was suddenly excited again," Cerrato said. "And all the women in the building were the most excited. They couldn't believe we were getting the guy from "Dancing With the Stars."
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jan 27, 2010 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
and another thing
If you go to the page with all of the 2009 OTs and sort by “Overall” so that the worst players are on top, Levi Jones is the 2nd worst in the league and Heyer is the 7th.
Also note that Loadholt doesn’t grade out well either as he’s the 31st worst. He is a rookie so there’s an upside with him though.
Of course all of this assumes the assessments and corresponding numeric values are accurate.
This is the difference, Mr. Hireme,
Levi Jones is the 2nd worst in the league and Heyer is the 7th.
between having a QB that can change games for the better with an average line (kudos all around), and having a QB with no fucking chance. It IS the line, Stupid.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Heyer pisses me off more than any other player situation
He was slated to be a starter and he sucks. At least Levi Jones and Mike Williams started off the season on the street.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Mike Williams
should have been left on the street. I still have absolutely no idea why they entertained the idea of him being on the team let alone him starting. He was a bust in Buffalo, him being out of the league however many years and losing weight isn’t going to change that. That pisses me off more than Heyer.
He was hired on the cheap as a project
I don’t think they intended for him to take too many snaps this year except maybe in clean-up, which we never had. Once we had to start him, he had to completely re-learn the speed of the game for being out so long. Plus, I’m sure all the weight loss had to affect his strength, stamina, etc. He’s probably worth keeping around for one more year to see if he can get become a reliable backup. But if anyone comes along that fits Shanny’s scheme better, AMF.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
I know they didn't intend for him to take many snaps this year,
that’s the problem. They thought our line would hold up this year, and failed to have reliable backups to step in (aka mike williams) in case that happened. But no, our line couldn’t get hurt? It’s only the NFL, and that doesn’t take a toll on their bodies, especially when your starting line is old and fragile with a history of injuries.
Please do not keep him.
Yeah, I understand
I mean Jason, in my mind, has grounds for a criminal law suit against the FO. It was tantamount to homicide what they did to him when there were other options available. But it was fun to watch the MW Weight Loss Tracker on HH. Talk about added value.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
hindsight is 20/20, but
man, I thought we had a pretty good list of free agent retreads on this board at mid season. Jon Runyan was near the top. To be fair, Levi Jones was pretty high on that list too.
You can’t fault them for taking on a guy like Mike Williams, who was a head case, and giving him the chance to turn it around. Buried under that horribly out of shape body, he still had the tools to succeed. Cutting 50 lbs off of a man that size in an NFL training program isn’t unrealistic. Then you see what you’ve got… it turns out you have another bad player who is not the worst in the league.
You absolutely can fault them, of course, for starting the season with only one tackle and one guard on that line that could be actually relied on.
by sofutomygaha on Jan 27, 2010 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
I would say we need a minimum of 10 new linemen
in camp and at the OTAs. Maybe even more. We are looking for 3 quality STARTERS and reliable backups (news flash, linemen get hurt Mr. V), and we should even be looking for guys that can replace Rabach and Dockery, if not now, in the future.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Even the UDFA lineman draft class
this year will undoubtedly have some players that are better than this ragtag band of fools. (Looking at you, Ed Wang)
That should spice up
Snyder’s nude play ennactments
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
A team in the NFL needs to have a 10-15 year plan.
The offensive and defense are allocated about 25 players each. Special team kickers, punters, and long snappers have been the other 3. The idea of maintaining and developing and an offensive line of 10 players is basic.
The left tackle should be top quality – above replacement value. Since a competitive team seldom gets the best draft picks this is important. Excepting injury this guy should be a ten year goal. The other offensive linemen can be of lesser quality although the ideal team would have all players above replacement quality (Scouts Inc grade of 80 plus would be utopian – like nowhere.). Management should phase in younger players and phase out older players based on some sort of career expectancy. If DONE CORRECTLY, a team does not need to have a radical rebuilding program for it’s offensive line or any other part of the team to remain in play off contention.
by Jefferson1935 on Jan 27, 2010 9:14 PM EST up reply actions
Randy Thomas and Casey Rabach
were brought onto the team as proven players and relatively young. The team needs to bring on similar players at the right guard, right tackle, and center positions as soon as possible without blowing up the salary cap for 2011 and the near future. Is it impossible? We really don’t know yet.
by Jefferson1935 on Jan 27, 2010 9:19 PM EST up reply actions
coaches don't get 10-15 years to build
Sometimes GM’s do but certainly noy all of the time. If that were true we’d still be stuck with VC.
And since the scheme (offensive or defensive) has a lot to do with how successful the player is, you can’t always use the personnel the previous regime hired.
Either way our 10-15 year plan has been a disaster so I don’t see that painless rebuild is possible.
That's why ownership with
there head(s) on straight is the key to long term success in the NFL. It took a while for the Rooneys to get it as well as the the Cardinals’ ownership. Some coaches do stay on close to 10 years.
by Jefferson1935 on Jan 28, 2010 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
So you're saying that a team
should develop young talent to replace aging starters before it becomes an obvious problem? What a novel idea! This doesn’t sound like anything our franchise has considered within, oh, say, the last decade or so.
Really?
I mean the signs of wear and tear and a gentle drop off in a player’s skills are so predictable. Take for instance the years of advanced knowledge we had that LT was going to meet Joe Theisman on the 36 yardline and snap his leg. Planning? We don’t need no stinkin’ planning!
Please adjust your sarcasm filter accordingly….:)
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
So basically Jason Campbell was playing behind the worst tackles in the NFL?
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
didn't we know this already?
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
Aren't stats amazing?
they can predict what we already new.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Some people choose to ignore it.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
coughcoughvinnycough
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
I really think I some of the worst line play EVER this past year.
Or maybe it just hurt more because it was the "Skins – flaunting tradition in every conceivable way I might add.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
This offseason is going to be insane. I can’t wait to see what they do with this situation they have on their hands.
Two good things:
It can’t possibly get any worse without several acts of god, and
Talk about options. There literally are no restrictions (short of # of draft picks) on what they can do to fix the problem. No high salaries, contracts etc. to worry about. They can implement any scheme they want and go after those players. Yeah, wouldn’t be surprised if only Dock and Casey remain.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Well, I understand that green is good
and red is bad. Other then that, not much on the chart made any sense to me. Where’s LJP when I need him. Let’s go to the video chart….
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Ask mr.snyderhireme
this whole chart is crap, if Jason Campbell didn’t hold the ball so long then we would’ve been in the playoffs!
I think there are some fans
that just want us to draft a QB in the first round every year. Apparently there’s always someone better at the top of the next draft, who can come in and immediately make everything right. What a crock.
yes
because there are so many fans that can’t realize success at the college level means virtually nothing when the come into the NFL. It’s a huge adjustment that most people just can’t make. I wish I had a dollar for every great college QB who should have been rgeat in the NFL but didn’t make the adjustment.
And how many
alright college quarterbacks who were selected in the later rounds of their draft went on to have decent careers in the NFL? That position is such a crapshoot that if I were a GM, I don’t know that I would ever spend a 1st round pick on a QB even if I had an all-pro at every other position.
exactly
you could draft a 5th round QB every single year, or every other year and have the same odds AND that way the 1st round QB wouldn’t crush the teams salary cap.
And then you'd look like a genius
when you finally found a Tom Brady or a Brett Favre, but noone would realize that you pick one every year.
and you laugh all the way to the bank
and in the off season you admire your Super Bowl trophies.
the plan is easy, the $ is the problem
I have at least a buck fifty…..
I love it when a plan comes together
And I can match the buck fifty!
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
He was still holding the ball when he
was waving goodbye to Zorn at the airport. At least he didn’t fumble.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
this is funny, but
It would be pretty illuminating if someone had stats for this. Has anyone charted how long each NFL quarterback, on average, holds the ball before he throws? I guess this could be biased by the fact that QBs under pressure end up scrambling more. Still, I’d love to see something quantitative.
It’s clear that the DEs were meeting at JC faster than just about any other QB in the league. He threw to the tight end a hell of a lot because of the pressure, but was he actually getting rid of it faster or slower as a result?
by sofutomygaha on Jan 27, 2010 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
The links
for Pro Football Focus. Centers – http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=C&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1
Move around the menu to see other information. The size of the fonts on the tables are legible if you go on the website.
D_C guy can critique this site, but like anything else, you can take something away from it.
by Jefferson1935 on Jan 27, 2010 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
Wow
from what I’m reading here, it would seem to me that our offensive line just isn’t very good. So why not draft a safety?
Neh I don't think it should be a safety.
How about a wide receiver? You can never have too many wide receivers. Those guys that run and catch the footballs are awesome.
A certain Mr. Cribbs may be available.
He can be his own line AND play safety AND WR.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
I think a kicker is a bigger need for us in the first round
If we have Cribbs, all we need is someone to pick extra points, or can he do that too?
by Nobetterthenbob on Jan 27, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
we should also get a home run hitter
in case the game changer goes amok
by sofutomygaha on Jan 27, 2010 11:57 PM EST up reply actions
Nah, QB in every round.
I mean, look at the stats… the QB position is one of the best overall blocking positions!
We field 5 QBs for the line and a QB to throw. What could be simpler?
A safety will improve our offensive line
because we’ll have better field position and teams will be scared to blitz us because they have to respect our passing game in the red zone! Its genius!
Hahahahaha. TIGHT END!
from what I’m reading here, it would seem to me that our offensive line just isn’t very good. So why not draft a safety?
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Shanny has already signed 2nd year center
from Denver a day or two ago. Don’t know his stats, but it appears that our new head coach is already addressing the OL needs.
isn't he a back up who wasn't on a team?
seems like depth, just sayin
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Who cares?
Just get as many into OTAs and camp as we can and sort them out later.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Roster size during OTA?
Given the unrestricted free agent linemen available it would be best to apply a hard filter before hand. The Pro Football Focus website maybe at least some help in doing the filtering, i.e., Pro Football Focus. Centers – http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=C&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1 or the other ones for guards and tackles. According to the scheme of things used in PFF Derrick Dockery was ranked 24th out of 84 guards and Casey Rabach 25th among 34 centers. PFF ranked some of the unrestricted guards as follows: Steve Neal #2, Rex Hadnot #17, Eugene Amano #51, David Baas #60.
Sporting News gives an alphabetic list of all tackles -http://www.sportingnews.com/freeagents/position/t-name.html – guards and centers as well as a ranking of 99 top free agents at all positions – http://www.sportingnews.com/freeagents/. Marcus McNeill #6 (first OT), Jammal Brown #11, Logan Mankins #38, but the problem being this guys will likely be restricted FA. Unrestricted: Chad Clifton #53 (age 33). There are more unrestricted players at other positions of lesser need.
by Jefferson1935 on Jan 28, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
Another great post
I love the amount of research you put into some of your posts. Its a breath of fresh air around here.
This is hardly 'addressing our OL needs'
that’s what I’m sayin
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
In his defense
he seems like a system guy who was cast aside when the new regime no longer ran the system that suited him. The kid is smaller than most guards/centers, but he was the best G/C in college football only a few years ago. I’m interested to see what he’s got.
And this post
is why any talk of 1st round QB pick needs to stop.
I see the chart and understand. Our line was BAD.
Having said that though, I don’t think we can trust a chart completely considering everything that went on here. It is too much to expect to bring in 3 new starting linemen, and especially 2 rookies. I know Jones, Rhinehart, and Heyer looked bad, but I think they are capable back-ups, and they have valuable NFL experience. I believe that if we bring in 1 good FA and 1 good draft pick to start, our O-line will be markedly improved.
Every year our O-line and D-line should be addressed in the draft and FA.
McCoy weight problems
I read a report that McCoy is now tipping the scales at 370 lbs so there’s obviously a weight issue. I hope that’s investigated thoroughly before we’d grab him.
That's Terrance Cody, NT
Gerald McCoy is a tight 295 Lb. DT in the Mold of Warren Sapp/Kevin Williams.
Better all around player then Suh.
by johnnydee83 on Jan 28, 2010 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
gotcha
Thanks for the clarification. It is hard to find great DTs and with 2 of them plus Orakpo we’d be set for years. With our OL needs it’s hard for me to draft anything else but is there really an OL worth the #4 pick (assuming we can’t trade down)?
No O-linemen worthy of a top 8-10 pick.
Barring injuries and mental/emotional issues, Suh, McCoy, Berry are can’t miss. Everyone else has questions.
as per usual
it’s pretty much that way every year – a few (less than 6 or so) guys are fairly risk free and everyone else has questions; and nobody is ever free of the injury risk.
I repeatedly see Okung as a top 10 pick
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
terms that I nominate for immediate retirement
1. “serviceable”
2. “game-changer”
3. “NFL experience”… insofar as it attributes virtue to a player who has experienced calamitous failure in the NFL
thanks.
Yes
I’m not sure how valuable any of the linemens’ experience was this past year. Afterall, there is hardly a moment I want repeated going forward.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
But what this team really lacks
is a serviceable game-changer with valuable NFL experience. I think we could find one late in the draft or through free agency, even if we must “toss the sink of the kitchen” to get them.
as long as he plays the game the right away
I would also like to make sure that he has a nonstop motor and a mean streak. These things are particularly important at the second level. You know the kind of guy I mean- a Football player who knows what to do with The Football and figures out how to win Football Games.
by sofutomygaha on Jan 28, 2010 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
Well I wouldn't put it past Mr. Snyder
to toss in any and all appliances to obtain all the serviceable game-changers with valuable NFL experience we could possibly hope for during our imminent Super Bowl run.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Looking at the OL on the cumulative offensive summary table.
Derrick Dockery was the only lineman with an overall positive ranking, but even he did not have a positive rank for run blocking.
I think that Pro Football Focus puts together a meaningful set of numbers for doing analysis of “replacement quality,” “less than replacement quality,” etc. Free agent offensive linemen with enough snaps can be evaluated with this kind of information as well. With nearly 1,000 snaps any player has a basis for analysis. Even with my career in industrial statistics we recognized that contravailing errors would compensate for each other if the number of observations was large enough, except for large errors that you would not see in football.
About 1/3 of Heyer’s negative overall ranking was due to penalties. Rabach had the second best overall ranking, but it was negative.
In a team that has a solid offensive line, each lineman should have a positive overall ranking. The rankings for pass and run blocking should also be positive or else they are hurting their team. There is probably a normal distribution (bell curve) for all the linemen in the NFL. There are some outliers like the Jets center as well as some on the bottom end like Levi Jones. Levi’s time as a left tackle is over. I would give him the benefit of the doubt for an attempt at right tackle next season.
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