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Pour Some Sugar On Me - Why the Redskins Should NOT Draft a Quarterback #4 Overall

Cue up the next issue we will be blowing up over the next few months. We have been into it pretty deeply already, but the Shanahan/Allen/Campbell/playoffs/HD screens extravaganza has softened the attention somewhat in recent days. On the heels of the article on Wednesday, I have spent some time thinking about why I feel so strongly about not taking a signal-caller in the first round. The more I think about this, the more I am hoping that we can convince some team below us we are going to grab Bradford and then trade the pick...oh wait, I can't be wasting reasons up here. Need to save them for:

Ten Yard Fight - 10 Chances To Make One Good Point

My goal: to think of ten reasons to convince you all out there that drafting a quarterback at #4 overall is a bad idea. Each reason will have a name (sometimes meaningful, sometimes not) and I encourage you all to help me flesh out each reason with more examples that fall neatly into the buckets. By April, I want us to have this thing nailed down.

1. The David Carr E.R. Memorial Reason-  Who didn't like this guy out of college? He completed 63% of his passes at Fresno State, won the Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award his senior year, and put a "Mid-Major" program on his back/shoulder as they made it all the way to #8 in the polls. He had everything going for him and the Texans made him the face of their franchise. They lined him up right behind an offensive line that promptly got Carr sacked 76 times his rookie year. We thought Campbell had it bad this past season with 43 sacks--who's to say how many sacks his experience helped him avoid? I think it is safe to say a rookie quarterback behind our current line (even moderately improved) would be murdered. Carr was never the same after that. You could argue whether he was "#1 overall" quality to begin with, but 76 sacks later, he looked more like the lead in a Meredith Baxter Birney-style movie chronicling an abusive spouse than he did a future Hall of Fame or even All-Pro quarterback. You can throw Patrick Ramsay into this reason as well (we can all think of quarterbacks who were battered as rookies.) Though Ramsey was not a top-5 pick, Spurrier should have been tried for assault with intent to kill. His failure to appreciate pass protection at the NFL level was maddening. His failure to understand that every team in the league knew about his failure to appreciate pass protection was equally mind-boggling. My point: why shell out top dollar to a guy you want to build your future around when it is reasonable to theorize he will not survive long enough to be a part of that future?

Star-divide

2. The C. Montgomery Burns Reason - I imagine Dan Snyder watching an old black and white instructional video on the draft that begins, "So you are picking #4." With the 50's style, quirky music track playing in the background, Snyder is told that, "Since you are going to be paying handsomely for this player, he must be a true impact player. And since you are paying 'quarterback money', why not spend your pick and your money on a quarterback?" (Upon hearing this, Mr. Burns would undoubtedly tap his fingers together in front of his face and instruct Smithers to fetch him the "finest pigskin hurler the Ivy league has to offer...save for that joke of an institution they call Harvard." My frustration with this premise is very simple...this team has made a living throwing money away left and right at proven players who have come in and done nothing. We have dedicated "quarterback money" to a variety of positions. Why is it all of a sudden a good idea to let the starting salary of an unproven rookie dictate who you select at the top of the draft? If you are a cash-strapped team in need of a QB, then fine, this logic at least has some merit. But when you are one of the richest teams in all of sports, entering an UNCAPPED year, shouldn't you try and get the best player you can find at the position you need the most? My point: Any player can be a bust at the top of the draft. We have had no problem overpaying for anyone the last ten years...let's get a guy we NEED and pay him whatever he gets as the #4 pick. Do we honestly believe Dan Snyder is sweating giving #4 money to anyone besides a kicker?

3. The Jim Kelly Reason - So there is no player as integral to a team as the quarterback, eh? While I am not aiming to take that question on directly, I will say this: the role of the quarterback has been diminished somewhat in the modern NFL. This sounds like heresy I know, but hear me out. Consider what Jim Kelly did in Buffalo. He called all his plays, ran the offense...hell, he was the offensive coordinator. He was not alone. In the preceding era(s), many quarterbacks (the majority?) called their own games. How many guys do that today? If you believe what we are told, the answer is one: Peyton Manning. Of course, some guys are given more leeway and flexibility than others, but head coaches and offensive coordinators today essentially play a game of Madden on the field, controlling and scheming their guys around. That is about as far as I will venture today on this topic, because the truth is that a great quarterback, even handcuffed by a coordinator, can make all the difference. My point: We're not talking about bringing in a guy that Kyle and Mike Shanahan will say, "Good luck today...call a great game out there!" So let's not get hung up on the notion that the only quarterback available in this draft who can come in and be "controlled" by the Shanahans is available in the top four. Leads nicely into:

4. The Dan LeFevour Route- Can we have an honest discussion about this guy? I watched two Central Michigan games this season (so I am by no means Mel Kiper on this one--I downloaded a bunch of highlights and clips though, so maybe I am a poor man's Todd McShay here.) He throws darts all over the field. He is big, strong, and athletic. Oh yeah, and he has the most total touchdowns in NCAA history. LeFevour is the only player in NCAA history with over 12,000 passing yards and 2,500 rushing yards. After red-shirting, he started 14 games as a freshman, 14 as a sophomore, 11 as a junior, and 14 as a senior. His completion percentage went up each year, from 63.7% his first year to 69.7% his last year. He has the "it" leadership factor that Shanahan loves, and the conference he comes out of has produced some decent NFL QB's (some better than others to be sure): Daunte Culpepper, Ben Roethlisberger, Chad Pennington, Byron Leftwich, Charlie Batch, Nate Davis, Charlie Frye, Josh Harris. There are a million places right now to get your pre-draft positional rankings, and they will change at least that many times. But at WalterFootball.com, I see him rated as a 5th-6th round pick, most recently updated on 1/15/2010 (where do you see him going?) My point: Isn't a guy like Dan LeFevour the kind of guy we should be targeting? He affords us the luxury of using our top picks on the line and can come in and develop under the Shanahans. Who has a better chance of impacting our team in the next two-three years: a 4th-5th round offensive lineman or a quarterback taken in the same spot? I think it is the QB. What do you think?

5. The Jason Campbell Reason - Ugh...Even I can't talk or write about this anymore. 3,618 yards, 20 TD's, 15 INT's, 64.5% completion percentage and 86.4 QB rating versus...Will Montgomery, D'Anthony Batiste, Chad Rinehart and Edwin Williams. I am definitely not busting on some of these guys because they might be decent backups at some point but...My point: we have Grand Canyon size holes at other positions.

6. The Chris Samuels Reason - Getting back to the issue addressed in Reasons #2 and #5, which is finding the best guy available at the position of greatest need, I am hoping we can agree at this point QB is not our greatest position of need? Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we find a cornerstone Left Tackle at the top of the draft a decade ago and wasn't that a pretty good investment? A cornerstone of Vinny Cerrato's tenure was an ostensibly small appetite for the meat and potatoes players at the top of the draft. Granted, he ended up picking a few very sexy, very talented players in the 1st round, but the lack of a crop of young, stud offensive linemen left us in our current predicament. My point: I pray that there is a willingness to label an Offensive Lineman as "the Best Player Available", and I hope that this delineation is strengthened by our need for an Offensive Lineman.

7. Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan Brain Trust - "In Bruce and Mike We Trust". We asked for experienced men to relieve the previous regime of their duties and remake this team in the image they see fit, to the extent they see fit. As it pertains to the #4 slot and a quarterback, I beg our new leaders to wield their expertise at the top of this draft by finding guys that can solidify this roster immediately ahead of any long-term development projects. My point: The best way Shanahan and Allen can reward our faith in them is by firming up the foundation on the line of scrimmage with blue-chippers on Thursday and Friday night (we will get to the new format of the draft in upcoming columns) and plucking QB and RB gems in the middle rounds.

8. Heath Shuler - I wasn't sure whether I should make this a reason...but then I realized that this is my list and Heath Shuler hurt this franchise--and me--for a long, long time. Tell me if this sounds familiar: The Redskins, with an offensive genius roaming the sidelines, bring in a blue-chip quarterback from a major college program with the third overall selection in the draft. We passed on these Pro Bowlers who went in that first round in 1994: Willie McGinest, Bryant Young, Sam Adams, Aaron Glenn, Joe Johnson, Todd Steussie and Jamir Miller. Oh, and Trent Dilfer. What I LOVE about that draft is that we came back at the top of the 2nd round and brought in Tre Johnson, one of my all-time favorite Redskins. Teams with solid foundations can overcome a top-5 bust at QB. Some teams can look back over decades and not have a Heath Shuler-sized bust on their resume. My point: We have a Heath Shuler-sized bust in our recent past and on top of that, our team is not currently constructed to recover easily from missing on a quarterback at #4 overall .

9. Lockout Looming - I have not thought all the way through how this could be that horrible, but it occurs to me that the prospect of a work stoppage would be detrimental to the development and installation of a zillion dollar rookie quarterback. I suppose on one hand, you might have a guy who is conceivably ready to get his feet wet in the league after any potential strike. But my preference would be to lay the bricks down up front on that line and then after any kind of labor strife bring in a youngster to stand behind it. The impending chaos surrounding the talks between the union and ownership is going to take center stage soon enough. My point: We might have an interesting opportunity to take this year and install principles and philosophies into every nook and cranny of this franchise. Then when the maelstrom that can form in these labor negotiations subsides, we could then bring in a blue-chipper (or promote a Dan LeFevour-type from within.)

10. Trade Down Possibilities - We all love to talk about this one. I think it is safe to say just about everyone in today's NFL would like to trade down for more picks. The economics of drafting in the top 5 are beyond silly. Thing is, the economics of Dan Snyder are also silly, so money is less of a factor in just about any personnel decision made in Ashburn. Adding picks is the key, and we are not alone in our endeavor to do that. An integral part of any success in trading down is making at least one team think you are going to do something you don't intend to do. Vinny "Open Book" Cerrato was close to incapable of this kind of head fake. The other part of trading down involves "The Chart". This trade value chart has been around for a while and regardless of who you want to blame for its popularization, plenty of weak-minded front offices are scared to death to venture far from it, lest they seem weak and stupid to their owners. My point/recommendation: Go ahead and make the world think we want Sam Bradford. The fact that our doctor did his surgery, coupled with our intent to draft him will surely convince a quarterback-hungry team to consider trading with us for the right to draft Bradford. Then, when it comes to getting a deal, don't worry about getting the exact chart value. Get the best deal you can get and take it. It will automatically come with a decent 1st rounder and a solid 2nd or 3rd rounder. Everything else is gravy. Let's not lose the chance to trade down by quibbling over future 5th and 6th round type add-ons to the deal.

Comment 119 comments  |  8 recs  | 

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Who is your "Dan LeFevour" in this draft?

For me, my “Dan LeFevour” is….well, Dan LeFevour.

I think he is going to be a winner at the pro level. Best part is, we won’t have to spend a top pick and 60 million pesos to find out.

by Sugar on Jan 22, 2010 10:12 AM EST reply actions  

I also watched all of those Tuesday/Thursday night games

That Central Michigan played so they could get on primetime ESPN. This kid is a stud.

by CarverM on Jan 22, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm on board completely, I even started paddling

Picking up LeFevour with a 5th (or maybe even 4th) round pick looks good to me.

by aFan4Life on Jan 22, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions  

alright

I’ll bite. Everybody thinks the kid is a gamer. I haven’t seen him play personally, but the higher minds seem to think he’s good, so consider me on the bandwagon.

Sidenote, is this the same guy that people said was also considering going into baseball?

SpottieOttieDopaliscious

by Rekka on Jan 22, 2010 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

No. Central Michigan's

freshman QB was drafted by the MLB out of high school.

by CarverM on Jan 22, 2010 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

If we take one at all this year

it should be in a later round and it probably should be Lefevour. I guess I’m starting to get the Fever for LeFevour…

Don’t forget the other option and not take any QB this year and go for Locker next year. This gives our line time to gel and gives us another pick to fill the Grand Canyon with.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Jan 22, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

You need the #1

for Locker. I can’t take another year of crap for that!!!!!

by brettpedigo on Jan 25, 2010 8:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't watch a lot

Of college football so I wouldn’t be able to say who’s good and who isn’t. However, Sugar, you have convinced me of taking this LeFevour guy in the 4th/5th round and having him develop under the Shanahans. I could be wrong, but I don’t think we’ll take a QB with the #4 pick anyway, I do however think we’ll pick up a QB in one of the later rounds. Whether or not that QB is LeFevour remains to be seen.

by bigrm18 on Jan 22, 2010 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

I’ve been on board for a while. If we succeed in a trade down and get a 1 and a two, I would go with two tackles and LeFevour as high as #2. I think he’s that good.

by bigredsnapper on Jan 22, 2010 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

are you saying

that he’s "in-famous’?

by monk81 on Jan 22, 2010 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Dexter McCluster RB

He’s tiny and will undoubtedly have trouble staying healthy for 16 games which is why he may fall to the 4th or 5th round. But as a third down back and returner (both big needs for the Skins) he is electric, capable of busting a big play at any time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp3RL2s5BV0 (highlights against Tenn)

Of course as one of the fastest players in the draft, Al Davis might take him in the first round. Only half-joking.

by Skinsmaniac on Jan 22, 2010 6:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I should add

That he plays WR and RB, so he has great hands. That video against Tenn starts pretty slow, but by the end of it, you’ll be a believer.

by Skinsmaniac on Jan 22, 2010 7:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I like McCluster a ton.

If he is there in the 4th round, he would be hard to pass on.
He is a game breaker every time he touches the ball.
He is RJ Spiller lite.

by johnnydee83 on Jan 23, 2010 11:24 AM EST up reply actions  

This whole little convo has an LJP feel to it

but I’m ok with spending a 4th or 5th on a RB. I’m sure Shanny and co. will find the right guy later in the draft, if he isn’t already on our team (I’m looking at you, Alridge)

by CarverM on Jan 23, 2010 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

You will find out soon enought

LOLOLOLO!!!

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Jan 25, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

haha

SpottieOttieDopaliscious

by Rekka on Jan 25, 2010 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I want to talk about this issue of quarterbacks taking a back seat to the coordinators/coaches in this era?

When I interviewed Joe Theisman, he talked about Sonny and Billy calling their own games and how that is not the case as much anymore. Do you care? Does it matter?

I feel like for the money and resources dumped into some of these guys, they should be more than just a strong arm. For the most part they are, I realize, but I want to have a guy wearing the burgundy and gold who can be the guy on the field taking it to the defense like the greats of old.

by Sugar on Jan 22, 2010 10:15 AM EST reply actions  

In general I agree

This is true for many QBs but not all while Peyton may be the only QB acting as the OC, there are quite a few QBs who makes audibles at the line of scrimmage. It’s not the same thing but it can make a big difference. I don’t think intelligence has become less important for QBs.

by aFan4Life on Jan 22, 2010 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

It's all about options

knowing what you have on any given play and which is the best one based on your read of the defense. Then quick decision. I don’t think it is necessary to have the QB decide on each play going into the huddle – just know what options you have at the line, including a bail out play if necessary or even a home run play if a certain defense is presented.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Jan 22, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

no

and I say that because you don’t have to start the 4th pick. Oh people will be clamoring for it but you can ignore them and throw in a Brennan to take the pounding instead of your new QB.

by aFan4Life on Jan 22, 2010 10:47 AM EST up reply actions  

that's what worries

me the most

you don’t have to start the 4th pick ……people will be clamoring for it
l
I am all for bring in a QB this year, preferably in a later round. But I think we should keep Campbell regardless. The problem with drafting a 1st rounder is, the 1st time JC falters even a little, we’ll hear the boos and cries for starting the rookie. In other words, Campbell won’t have s chance to get the fans on “his side”.

by CJHutch on Jan 23, 2010 8:25 AM EST up reply actions  

I say No too

If you draft a player w/ good work ethic, then they will stay in shape….versus pulling an Andre Smith

"It was one of those things where everyone in the building was suddenly excited again," Cerrato said. "And all the women in the building were the most excited. They couldn't believe we were getting the guy from "Dancing With the Stars."

by Kevin Ewoldt on Jan 22, 2010 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Would you be OK with Shanahan and Allen going "off the chart" to trade down?

or would you be upset that we got taken advantage of by another team?

by Sugar on Jan 22, 2010 10:16 AM EST reply actions  

Shanahan has been in this business long enough where we won't get fleeced

imho

"It was one of those things where everyone in the building was suddenly excited again," Cerrato said. "And all the women in the building were the most excited. They couldn't believe we were getting the guy from "Dancing With the Stars."

by Kevin Ewoldt on Jan 22, 2010 10:18 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree

We don’t have the village idiot running our show anymore. Vinny was one of those guys who would trade a dime for a nickel because it was bigger.

by CarverM on Jan 22, 2010 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

completely agree

and we have to realize that most players don’t make a huge impact as rookies so it can take a few years to see if the trade was good or bad.

by aFan4Life on Jan 22, 2010 10:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I guess

We all have been used to seeing Cerrato come up with idiotic, lopsided trades so much so that we forget that we actually have a competent and very experienced GM/head coach duo running the show. I don’t see us getting “taken advantage of” by another team any longer.

by bigrm18 on Jan 22, 2010 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

I think we are in a special place this year

We have the opportunity to fix some very specific problems and we have to focus on that no matter what. If we get a little fleeced but solve our toughest problems, I’m OK with that. What irked me in the past was the willy nilly wasting of draft picks without consideration for fit or need, seemingly, and paying way too much for little reward.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Jan 22, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

When drafting

Cerrato was obsessed with not drafting a player earlier than they were projected. He was always bragging about getting “deals” i.e. getting a player who was rated as a 4th round talent in the 7th round, regardless of whether our team really needed that player.

by CarverM on Jan 22, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Well...

not sure who he’s bragging to now? Hehehehe

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Jan 22, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

The burger guy

at McDonalds, in between batches of french fries.

by CarverM on Jan 22, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Can he say:

“Would you like some O-linemen with that?” Apparently not…

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Jan 22, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

He can say:

“Would you like a draft pick with that?”

by CarverM on Jan 22, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Ha!

Nailed it.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Jan 22, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I would LOVE

to trade down. I just don’t see anyone really worth the #4 for our team (Well, maybe Suh). So picking up a few extra building blocks, then still getting one of the top OT’s out there would be a coup for us.

by CJHutch on Jan 23, 2010 8:27 AM EST up reply actions  

One thing

It was well-known that Snyder, not Spurrier, drafted Patrick Ramsey.

"It was one of those things where everyone in the building was suddenly excited again," Cerrato said. "And all the women in the building were the most excited. They couldn't believe we were getting the guy from "Dancing With the Stars."

by Kevin Ewoldt on Jan 22, 2010 10:17 AM EST reply actions  

touchee

"It was one of those things where everyone in the building was suddenly excited again," Cerrato said. "And all the women in the building were the most excited. They couldn't believe we were getting the guy from "Dancing With the Stars."

by Kevin Ewoldt on Jan 22, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

pass protection

you call THAT pass protection? That offense reminded me of when they released the pigs in Hannibal.

by CJHutch on Jan 23, 2010 8:57 AM EST up reply actions  

it was brought over from NFL Europe

It was called the Bullfighter Blocking scheme but our guys didn’t need any capes

I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....

by piratedan7 on Jan 23, 2010 7:08 PM EST up reply actions  

maybe it would have worked better if

Danny had splurged and gotten them the capes?

SpottieOttieDopaliscious

by Rekka on Jan 25, 2010 11:15 AM EST up reply actions  

or those adorable

berets? But the uniforms are definately stylin’!

I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....

by piratedan7 on Jan 25, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Great Points

I love the david carr memorial. Bradford would last 3 or 4 games tops behind our o-line before his career was over.

On the other hand, A guy like Dan Lefevour reminds me of a big ben type that is sturdy enough to handle the abuse that comes with playing behind a line made up practice squaders

by BrandonLloyd on Jan 22, 2010 10:27 AM EST reply actions  

I agree on Carr

We’ll never know what he could have been and despite the pounding he took and their weak running game their offense did well.

by aFan4Life on Jan 22, 2010 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Correct on the Carr example

But your second point is moot in that the whole idea is to develop Dan slowly awaiting the development in kind of the O-line. Then, we either have a super stud QB in Jason plus an excellent backup QB or a new stud QB and a beat up backup. Or we have trade bait and we start all over with another low round QB draft.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Jan 22, 2010 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd say this is definitely

the most complete post we’ve had on this subject. Well done, Ken.

by CarverM on Jan 22, 2010 10:46 AM EST reply actions  

I'd be okay taking a QB

in round 1, if we tendered JC and got a first round pick back in return. Otherwise, draft OL in round one.

by liger99 on Jan 22, 2010 10:50 AM EST reply actions  

the 1 and only argument I've read or heard to counter this

is if you can get a Peyton Manning with the #4 pick you do so. I don’t remember who said that in these forums but it’s a very valid point. I don’t see a Peyton Manning in this years draft though.

by aFan4Life on Jan 22, 2010 10:56 AM EST reply actions  

I think that is a basic assumption
I don’t see a Peyton Manning in this years draft though.

behind this article, the second assumption being that even if someone stood out as more likely than most to be a Peyton Manning, this team is not in a position to take any risk by doing so. If we were even only 2-3 players away from a competent O-line, yes/maybe. But it would be criminal to put Bradford or even McCoy out there after their injury history.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Jan 22, 2010 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I would say

that if there WAS a Peyton Manning, or even someone close, we should jump on him. But there isn’t. Unfortunately, there’s no Jon Ogden either. But, hopefully, there’s a Drew Brees. Or maybe, just MAYBE, a Tom Brady?

by CJHutch on Jan 23, 2010 9:06 AM EST up reply actions  

The Redskins need to re-sign Jason Campbell whether they draft a QB or not. If they do draft a QB, it will be beneficial to the new QB to stay on the sidelines and wait until he is ready. If the new QB is a bust, it will be a definite plus to have Campbell to fall back on. If the new QB is successful, then it will be great to have a talent like Campbell as a backup as opposed to the Colts’ Curtis Painter.

Should they draft a QB with the #4 pick? We don’t know. It’s Shanahan’s team, not mine. If Shanahan sees Bradford as the franchise QB, then they should pick him. If none of the top QBs in the draft appeal to him, then draft for another position.

So many assume that Okung should be the only option. What if Shanahan views the film on Okung and decides that he’s not the right OT for his system? The draft should not be based on what fans think is the right choice. It should be based on what Shanahan and Allen believe is the best pick. If it is a QB, then that’s fine with me. If it’s Okung, Berry, McClain. or anybody else, then I’m fine with that too.

by Midniterc on Jan 22, 2010 11:11 AM EST reply actions  

All of that is true

but it makes for a really dull Skin’s blog if we all just agree that our opinions don’t matter and whatever the coach does is perfect!

by CarverM on Jan 22, 2010 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

+1000

my 2 bit unprofessional assessments and opinion matter to me! :P

by aFan4Life on Jan 22, 2010 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

My god, Carver, your

knee-jerk reaction to Midniterc was exactly the same as mine…maybe he’s a former Stepford Wife?

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Jan 22, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Okung is perfect for Shanahan's system, but of course im not Shanahan.

If Okung truly doesn’t fit the system, we have to upgrade our secondary or get someone who will assist our transition from 4-3 to 3-4.

Of course in this world everything depends on what, if any, QB Shanahan loves.

Orakpo!!! Russel Okung next year!

by Horcasitas4 on Jan 22, 2010 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

So much for the Revolution?

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Jan 22, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh no

The Revolution will be re-viva’d on a regular basis still my friend

by Sugar on Jan 23, 2010 10:16 AM EST up reply actions  

/post /argument /draft planning
3,618 yards, 20 TD’s, 15 INT’s, 64.5% completion percentage and 86.4 QB rating versus…Will Montgomery, D’Anthony Batiste, Chad Rinehart and Edwin Williams. I am definitely not busting on some of these guys because they might be decent backups at some point but…My point: we have Grand Canyon size holes at other positions.

"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Jan 22, 2010 11:24 AM EST reply actions  

???

i don’t get what you’re trying to say

SpottieOttieDopaliscious

by Rekka on Jan 22, 2010 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Point 2

“Do we honestly believe Dan Snyder is sweating giving #4 money to anyone besides a kicker?”

Such a bad thing for a decent kicker?

Kidding… mostly

by mdm1185 on Jan 22, 2010 11:49 AM EST reply actions  

I say take a kicker 4th overall

If he never misses!!! There are a TON of chokers these days!!!!!

by brettpedigo on Jan 25, 2010 9:08 PM EST up reply actions  

In general

very reasonably stated and thorough work, Sugar.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Jan 22, 2010 12:50 PM EST reply actions  

Don't forget

to recc the post if you think its worthy, fellas. I think I remember Kevin and Ken saying something about their stories getting more front page attention on SBN if it gets alot of recc’s.

by CarverM on Jan 22, 2010 1:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Good point.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Jan 22, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with the post. So much so that I don’t think there’s really any debate here… for all the reasons listed in the post. Have to get value at a position of need. It has to be an offensive lineman. The only questions are…

Will Okung be available?
Is there any chance we would draft another lineman ahead of him if he is available?
Which lineman do we draft if Okung is not available?

I’d love to see us spend our first three picks on O lineman. What better way to (partially) pay back JC for the pain he has been put through in this organization.

by hsoup on Jan 22, 2010 2:00 PM EST reply actions  

There are some good Shanny type OLs in FA

which to me obviates the need to go OT with our first pick. If Berry is there, he is more valuable and of a greater need in that position. I’d say go for Berry at #4 if we can’t trade down (I still say go for Berry at #4) pick up a few more OLs on draft day in lower rounds and an LB. Just me.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Jan 22, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Just so long as

we are still drafting OL talent and developing home-grown talent ourselves. Our huge problem the last decade was that we would sign these FA Olinemen who were older, and when they got hurt or couldn’t go anymore we wouldn’t have any depth behind them. I want to start seeing starters that we drafted ourselves, which (aside from Rhinehart and Montgomery’s little stint) we haven’t seen since Samuels and Jansen. Note: I don’t count Dockery, even though we drafted him, because he hasn’t been with us the whole time.

by CarverM on Jan 22, 2010 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Goes hand in hand with what I've been saying

irresponsible scooping in the FA market results in overpaid, entitled players and less competition for jobs; hence a less competitive team and under-trained backups. All your player acquisition tools should be used when it makes sense and you can add value to your team, but they must be used to build a TEAM.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Jan 22, 2010 3:05 PM EST up reply actions  

to build a TEAM.

Which, you can see, has no “I”.

by CarverM on Jan 22, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Neither does "ME"

or paddin’

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Jan 22, 2010 6:51 PM EST up reply actions  

why are you high?

If Berry is there, he is more valuable and of a greater need in that position.

I can’t say this enough. We DON’T NEED a safety with the # 4 pick. Safeties just aren’t worthy of that high a pick. We already have a safety on our team who WE drafted too high, why get another one? Also, I would argue your point that safety is a “position of need.” We have 3 guys capable of starting at SS, and one guys who has started for us the past few years at FS. Is Landry ideal at FS? Nope. But he’s a better option there than Heyer is at OT.

The bottom line is, Berry is a luxury pick. We have NEEDS to fill. And, don’t forget, this time last year Taylor Mays was the “can’t miss” prospect at safety. I remember everyone wishing he had come out so we could get our Sean Taylor replacement. Now where is he?

by CJHutch on Jan 23, 2010 9:18 AM EST up reply actions  

+1000

“Is Landry ideal at FS? Nope. But he’s a better option there than Heyer is at OT.”

by aFan4Life on Jan 25, 2010 8:27 AM EST up reply actions  

You are saying

Well, if we can accept something just barely mediocre at one position, it’s OK to accept it at another….then another?….and you end up with a mediocre team at best. Or a really crappy one.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Jan 25, 2010 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Ken, I like your post, it makes sense.

“Then, when it comes to getting a deal, don’t worry about getting the exact chart value. Get the best deal you can get and take it. It will automatically come with a decent 1st rounder and a solid 2nd or 3rd rounder. Everything else is gravy. Let’s not lose the chance to trade down by quibbling over future 5th and 6th round type add-ons to the deal.”

I suppose the sequel to this would be – What potential left tackle would still be available at the the latter 1st round picks? This is all speculation, but Trent Williams (15th), Mike Iupati (22) G, Bryan Bulaga (24th), or Bruce Campbell (27th). Maurkic Pouncey, C, Florida projects to be available for a 2nd round pick. Or maybe Charles Brown, currently at 44th overall, Jon Asamoah, OG, 58th (faster than Brown)! The trade down would need a 1st round pick in my estimation. Some guards do have the potential to be pro tackles. Is Pouncey worth a 2nd round pick?

by Jefferson1935 on Jan 22, 2010 2:31 PM EST reply actions  

GREAT post! i would add a pretty important one. there is no qb in this draft rock solid and worthy enough for the #1 pick, much less #4. grab the sure thing and lets get better.

by les boulez bomber on Jan 22, 2010 3:16 PM EST reply actions  

I can honestly say that whatever the skins decide to do,

I will be ok with it. Draft a QB, OL, FS, DT, or trade that 1st pick, count me onboard.
So many things to consider it’s mind numbing. IF IF IF and IF dominates the entire conversation.
I can see the value in trying to get a QB or OL with the 4th pick. I can also say a trade looks good or using the pick to strengthen our defense.
I am just glad that I can trust the men making the decisions will do the right thing regardless of the direction they go.
I have no allegiences to anyone on the current roster, so I don’t care who they keep, trade or cut. I don’t care who they bring in; although I do prefer blue-collar boy scouts, but whatever.
I want my team to be competitive again, and I am so freakin sick of losing!

by johnnydee83 on Jan 22, 2010 3:47 PM EST reply actions  

What if they...

Traded down and drafted a kicker? oooooo just playin

by Nobetterthenbob on Jan 23, 2010 5:30 AM EST up reply actions  

In complete agreement

I couldn’t agree with you more. Draft to strengthen the lines and secondary (although I wouldn’t mind a running back as well). Re-up Campbell for the year (assuming the CBA negotiations stall), and give him a chance under Shanahan. If he still doesn’t seem like he can put it together, then move on. I like the Dan LeFeuvor idea, but we should keep in mind there will be much better QB prospects in next years draft (Jake Locker and Ryan Mallet) that we could pursue if Campbell doesn’t work out. NO SAM BRADFORD. Or Jimmy Clausen for that matter.

by cancel15 on Jan 22, 2010 6:00 PM EST reply actions  

lefvevour wont be heath schuler ?

you say lefvevour is going to be a 6th or 7th round pick so was colt brennan i say if we can get him in a later round we have to snag him he will be molded good under shanny but if we dont get him sign a vet to battle with colt in traning camp like i said before it wont matter if we have marino in as qb he wont do much lying flat in hi back .okung okung okung okung.

by lohaus#54 on Jan 22, 2010 9:03 PM EST reply actions  

Free agency then draft, that's how it goes

No matter the special conditions this year and the exact prospects, free agency always starts before the draft so why bother with trying to figure out exactly what the team must do in the draft. There are just way too many dynamics and questions and we have to count on free agency more than ever becasue the draft just won’t be eongh- settling the QB situation, re-tooling or revamping the O-line, new blood at RB, adding LBs for the new 3-4 scheme, secondary upgrades and so on.

by ScottK36 on Jan 22, 2010 9:48 PM EST reply actions  

Other than...

trading up and drafting a QB would be beyond retarded, like brain dead.

by Nobetterthenbob on Jan 23, 2010 5:32 AM EST up reply actions  

agree with the QB part

but I wouldn’t mind seeing us make the 3-4 switch. Gradually, at least. Like Parcells did with the Cowboys. I just see the 3-4 as creating so many matchup problems. And 3-4 defenses are at the top of the rankings every year.

by CJHutch on Jan 23, 2010 9:24 AM EST up reply actions  

HOGS

Why were the 1st Joe Gibbs teams so good for so long? The HOGS. They drove that offense. Gibbs was able to insert good (not great) quarterbacks and continue to win. They dominated the line of scrimmage. Gibbs fortunately also had a great GM (Bobby Beathard). He acquired Mark May, Russ Grimm, Joe Jacoby and Jeff Bostic and created the nucleus needed for the offense to thrive. Add in a decent quarterback and able receivers and you have the Redskins 80s dynasty. Let’s hope our new brain trust is as capable.

by rooster1 on Jan 23, 2010 1:09 AM EST reply actions  

too bad we don't have

Beathard. He pulled big Russ outta the 3rd round, and Starke in the 11th. He also signed Jacoby and Bostic undrafted. Ridiculous – the most famous O-line in league history, and they only had one first rounder.

by CJHutch on Jan 23, 2010 9:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Team Needs

Besides the obvious in the Offensive Line conundrum, it should be worrisome that this team will be challenged with learning a new offensive scheme once again. Luckily, Shannagins clan runs a version of the West Coast offense so transition challenges should be minimal. There are a couple of holes in the defense as well, but the multitude of Three-and-outs from the offense wreaked havoc on our defense. I truly hope that the recent hiring’s in coaching staff is in fact a new vision and new direction from Dan Snyder. My personal observation of the press conference when Shanahan was introduced, Dan S. looked somewhat defeated.

My thoughts on Campbell; in this Attention Deficit Age of NFL players, Campbell’s leadership style (Lead by example) apparently has no place in this league. There is too much of the “me first” mentality that clouds Campbell’s subtle actions of scraping himself off of the turf and moving onto the next play to try again. You hear more of players whining about not getting the ball or opportunities of being in the limelight. So, these “me first” players create their own limelight or drama off the field in the various media platforms. I would also argue that the media facilitates this behavior (not necessarily responsible).

by ConflictedRedskinsFan on Jan 23, 2010 3:09 PM EST reply actions  

I’d like to see the skins get one of the two stud D-linemen with the 4th pick and then go O-line the rest of the way.

by DuncanB on Jan 24, 2010 9:49 AM EST reply actions  

Wait a minute!

   All the above comments assume:

   Randy Thomas won’t be back (he said he will be)

   Our all-pro LT won’t be back (he also said that he wants to but hasn’t made a firm decision yet).

    I would certainly be very nervous going into our next season hoping at least one of em makes it back and can still be high quality, but I would assume the powers that be have a much better feel for their potential return.

by Dipper on Jan 24, 2010 12:17 PM EST reply actions  

I hope they both come back

and we still draft 2 tackles and a guard. Our rookies will be much better off if they don’t have to start until week 6, and we’ll be much better off having some experience on the line at least to start the year while our rookies learn the ropes instead of potentially starting the season with 3 linemen that have no NFL experience.

by CarverM on Jan 24, 2010 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

at what level

even if they both come back, how good will they be? At this point Randy Thomas has had several injuries and after a few you have to start wondering if his body just can’t take the wear and tear. And Samuels injury is very serious, as in, there’s a chance he’ll be messed up for the rest of his life if he comes back. And even if he does come back will he be still be a pro bowl caliber LT? I think this is a good case of hoping for the best but preparing for the worst.

by aFan4Life on Jan 25, 2010 8:31 AM EST up reply actions  

he's right!

except that they said the same thing last year after their season ending injuries…..

I love those guys and when healthy they are quality lineman…. but Samuels (despite the desire to play) has to be taking a huge health risk and Thomas has been beat up badly in the last two years, I don’t know if you can expect the same kind of quality performance with back to back years of injuries… and no that doesn’t automatically guarantee that they won’t survive a season, but it sure wouldn’t make sense to keep betting on those horses finishing the race either. Plus the “quality” infusion of youth on the OL has been neglected far too long and our RT position is in serious need of evaluation. Lichtenburger is just the first step, I surely expect others to follow.

I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....

by piratedan7 on Jan 25, 2010 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

HUH?

Le-‘fever’… I am from MI and watched alot of his games… I was not that impressed. I saw no ‘it’ factor. He played a favorable schedule… and when he did play against respectable Defenses, his numbers blew!!

Plus he looks like the retarded kid you cross the street to avoid b/c he looks like he might start humping the back of your leg or something… Just sayin’!

JJ Fe

by Rydaddy617 on Jan 25, 2010 12:09 PM EST reply actions  

I wasn't that impressed, either

only I only saw him play against Troy. Other than the fact he looks like Alfred E. Neuman, I had no problem missing the “it” factor.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Jan 25, 2010 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

we're in such a deep hole

such glaring needs, and addressing other positions puts us even further behind the 8 ball.

arg

"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins

by smutsboy1 on Jan 26, 2010 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

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