Statistically, Danny Smith Should Stay as Redskins ST Coach
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jan 14, 2010 3:03 PM EST
in Redskins Analysis
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Danny Smith has been the Redskins Special Teams coach since 2004, and it's clear then when it comes to defending punts and kick-offs, he is a top-5 ST coach. I throw out the 2008 year since Danny Smith had Durant "Thank you Vinny Cerrato" Brooks and Ryan Todd "Muffin Top" Plackemeier kicking their 35-yard line drives. Their punts had as much hang time as Charles Barkley does dunking now. With how those 2 punters kicked, that's an automatic 6 yards the KR got before having to make their first move. Let's not talk about those two anymore.
Things get REALLY hairy for Coach Smith when we flip to the other side of the ball, the Kickoff/Punt return. We as fans have been SCREAMING to get Randle El out of the PR position, yet he's always back there. It's idiotic not to have Moss, Hall, or Thomas back there at least 50% of the time...and the stats prove it. The Head Coach makes the decision to put the KR/PR back there, so how much of this falls on Danny Smith?
I really don't know that answer.
Either way, the Redskins special teams have been solid. Not giving up any punt or kick returns this year is no easy feat. The frustration is not just because the Redskins didn't score a TD, we all know they never had a CHANCE to. Ugh. The argument was that DeAngelo Hall and Devin Thomas didn't have enough reps to make them reliable enough to put back there consistently. I can buy that, but what I don't get is: After 3 years of being in the bottom of return yards, why don't you sign a free agent or get someone that can??? That is not Danny Smith's fault.
Full matrix of Coach's Smith's Special Teams NFL ranking stats for the last 4 years after the jump:
Kickoffs (defending)
|
Return Yards |
TDs Allowed |
Kicker |
|
|
3rd (19.7 yards) |
Tied 1st (0) |
Suisham/Gano |
|
|
2008 |
3rd (20.1) |
Tied 1st (0) |
Suisham |
|
2007 |
4th (19.8) |
Tied 3rd (1) |
Suisham |
|
4th (20.8) |
Tied 1st (0) |
Suisham/Hall/Novak |
Punting
|
|
Avg. |
# Blocked |
Inside 20 |
Return Avg |
Punter |
|
2009 |
31st (40.6) |
0 |
10th (28) |
6th (7.1) |
H. Smith/Pakulak |
|
2008 |
29th (41.0) |
1 |
10th (24) |
27th (11.7) |
Brooks/Plackemeier |
|
2007 |
28th (41.0) |
0 |
18th (23) |
6th (6.3) |
Frost |
|
2006 |
20th (42.9) |
1 |
10th (27) |
8th (7.1) |
Frost |
Punt average for 2009, OAK Lechler was #1 with an average of 51.1 yards.
Kick/Punt Returns
|
|
Punt Return Avg |
Primary Returner |
|
Kick Return Avg |
Primary Returner |
|
30th (4.8 yards) |
Randle El |
|
24th (21.7 yards) |
||
|
2008 |
21st (8.4) |
Randle El |
|
4th (25.1) |
Rock Cartwright |
|
2007 |
26th (7.5) |
Randle El |
|
8th (23.8) |
Rock Cartwright |
|
2006 |
14th (8.8) |
Randle El |
|
19th (22.3) |
Rock Cartwright |
I'm sure the Mottrams will completely disagree with me as we've had this debate before, but I'd like to hear their argument. My prediction is Shanahan will be doing a full staff over-haul and Coach Smith is out, but we'll see. The big question is did Danny Smith really want ARE and Rock back there? (ie - to play it safe and reduce turnoves/injuries). Zorn made the official announcements, but that doesn't mean Danny Smith wasn't advising him to start them.
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When I saw this article title, I thought that 2008 would ruin Smith's stats.
I throw out the 2008 year since Danny Smith had Durant “Thank you Vinny Cerrato” Brooks and Todd “Muffin Top” Plackemeier kicking their 35-yard line drives.
Im glad you did this
Orakpo!!! Russel Okung next year!
Punting average is not a reliable stat.
When your trying to punt 35 yards to down it at the 5, you dont kick it that far. Punts inside the 20 and return average are the stats that matter.
Orakpo!!! Russel Okung next year!
But every punter has to do this
So it balances out
"It was one of those things where everyone in the building was suddenly excited again," Cerrato said. "And all the women in the building were the most excited. They couldn't believe we were getting the guy from "Dancing With the Stars."
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jan 14, 2010 3:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Except for Shane Lechler
the Raiders didn’t get that close to the end-zone, so he had to boom it inside the 20 from inside of his own 20.
Not sure I follow this logic
2009 Stats:
49ers – 99 punts – 47.6 avg
Chiefs – 96 punts – 45.0 avg
Raiders – 96 punts – 51.1 avg
Browns – 94 punts – 42.3 avg
Bucs – 87 punts – 41.7 avg
"It was one of those things where everyone in the building was suddenly excited again," Cerrato said. "And all the women in the building were the most excited. They couldn't believe we were getting the guy from "Dancing With the Stars."
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jan 14, 2010 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
Plus...
The Raiders ranked 1st in Punt touchbacks and ranked 6th for Inside the 20.
"It was one of those things where everyone in the building was suddenly excited again," Cerrato said. "And all the women in the building were the most excited. They couldn't believe we were getting the guy from "Dancing With the Stars."
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jan 14, 2010 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
I'm saying
That he didn’t have to worry about choking back on his punts to make sure they were downed inside the 20. He was in a position where he could just boom every kick as far as they would go.
We've all talked about this way too much recently
After 3 years of being in the bottom of return yards, why don’t you sign a free agent or get someone that can???
I think we all know where this will head.
hopefully it heads to someone stating that one of our guys needs to be given
more of a chance to prove themselves ::coughcoughtryoncough:: as one or both of our return men.
The status quo just isn’t cutting it in that department.
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
We definitely need to look in house.
We have fast players who performed these duties at the college level, but have not been allowed to here.
exactly
anyone in particular somone want to see with the duties? And why?
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
Justin Tryon
I have no idea how much opportunity he was given in training camp in 2008 and 2009.
“kick off return potential” and “an incredible kickoff returner, he averaged 41.2 yards on five kickoff returns late in the season.” http://arizonastate.scout.com/a.z?s=43&p=8&c=1&nid=3051763
From the Redskins site:
" A threat on special teams, he returned 12 kickoff returns for 372 yards (31.0 avg.) during his two seasons at Arizona State." http://www.redskins.com/gen/players/Justin_Tryon.jsp
by Jefferson1935 on Jan 14, 2010 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
They tried him his rookie year in camp and didn't see much if I remember correctly
by BayAreaBullet on Jan 14, 2010 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
i don't remember that one
you remember where you saw it?
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
STOP THIEF!!!
I have been clamoring all year for them to give Tryon a try back there. I remember when we drafted him he said he was gonna make an immediate impact as a returner. (Of course, he also said he didn’t know Smoot or Springs, but that he would start over them). I also remember Cerrato saying he was an “exceptional punt returner.” Yes, I do realize the credibility of the source here, but I figured that the guy is small and FAST, which is usually a a good mix at PR. THEN I saw his interception and run back this year, and I became convinced. The guy is FAST as hell, and shifty as a jackrabbit. And BEST OF ALL, his name is not Antwan Randle El.
What about this Joshua Cribbs I keep hearing about?
by BayAreaBullet on Jan 14, 2010 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
was that a serious question?
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
no I hopped over here from the anti-LJP post
by BayAreaBullet on Jan 14, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
You guys are killin me...just KILLIN me here!! LOL
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Is he available?
He’s good enough to be a kick returner, WR and QB—>That’s 3 positions
He’s a lethal weapon
He’s oh just forget it…
Carver , Can you say "THE Lethal Weapon" other wise known as Joshua Cribbs !! LOL
by LETJASONPASS on Jan 15, 2010 5:57 AM EST up reply actions
I think part of the dismay, LJP, with your push to get TLW
is that you seem to want to put all your bullets in one gun (read eggs in one basket if you like). Certainly there are other options as have been discussed. I mean many players in this league have 2 legs and can run fast and are strong and can break tackles, etc etc.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Scott, how many have ran back 8 kick offs ? take a guess only one Joshua Cribbs all time NFL record holder
Brian Mitchell, Deon Sanders, Devin Hester, Tim Brown, etc etc etc did not do it. So stop comparing him to everyone else. It is not a good comparison this guy is truly a once in a blue moon kind of player.
by LETJASONPASS on Jan 17, 2010 4:51 AM EST up reply actions
Anyone watch college football?
Any punt/kick returners jump out at you as a late round draft pick?
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
maybe
like I said, I don’t watch college football. But is the star athlete usually the best returner also? Like in CJ Spiller’s case?
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
Jordan Shipley from Texas
Also probably not a late rounder
by bonesbiscuit on Jan 16, 2010 9:28 AM EST up reply actions
Javier Arenas is pretty sick from Alabama. He could come to DC and reunite with his cousin Gil. (No gun jokes, please)
nm
thanks for that. So we’d have another CB on our hands, which I could LIVE with I guess. But he does seem to be very good from what I see on youtube and am reading online.
I don’t see too much about him being a star CB though, do you think that would make him go down in the draft a little?
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
I don't watch it
but it seems to me dynamic return men pop up every year out of obscurity. I don’t think you need to invest a lot of money in one, just a lot of scouting. Hell, Cribbs wasn’t even drafted.
Agree.
Finding a good return man takes late round picks, scouting, and luck.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Lot's of time they just volunteer
Anything to get a spot on a roster.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
I don’t know enough to swing either way on this. If Smith has been been the one making personnel decisions like letting Captain Fair Catch return punts, then I’d like to see him go. Also if he made the MNF play call or campaigned for it then take a hike.
It seems as if he hasn’t totalled adapted to the “Post Wedge” era.
It looks like Danny Smith's chances of staying just went up dramatically
PFT (ugh) is reporting Bobby April is going to the Iggles
"It was one of those things where everyone in the building was suddenly excited again," Cerrato said. "And all the women in the building were the most excited. They couldn't believe we were getting the guy from "Dancing With the Stars."
maybe his kids pissed him off
and this is their punishment
SpottieOttieDopaliscious
Maybe their family
Doesn’t believe in, or doesn’t like Santa Claus? They’d fit right in with the rest of that city in that case.
I asked this very same question
Not giving up any punt or kick returns this year is no easy feat
and got an authoritive answer that we gave up one TD on special teams this year – against the Iggles?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Really?
I don’t see that. DeSean had that 67-yard end-around, but not any PR tds I’m pretty sure.
"It was one of those things where everyone in the building was suddenly excited again," Cerrato said. "And all the women in the building were the most excited. They couldn't believe we were getting the guy from "Dancing With the Stars."
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jan 14, 2010 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know what to say
except that it was not challenged by the group. Anyway, your point remains valid in that we were nothing less than solid in our return play.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
With the exception of...ahem...the need to try someone fast at KR/PR...
this is a no brainer. It ain’t broke, don’t fix it in lieu of a host of REAL problems. And why can’t that apply to this whole issue about the 3-4?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Why would we keep the guy
Who gave us the WORST punt return team and the second worst punt team in the league? When you are the very worst at half of your job, you’re terrible.
http://www.advancednflstats.com/2010/01/shane-lechler-is-overratedor-is-he.html
by Palace of Good Play's Golden Toilet on Jan 14, 2010 7:58 PM EST reply actions
We should definetly retain him.
Its not his fault that the head coaches were dumb enought to keep ARE back at punt returns and its not his fault we couldn’t find a non retarded punter or kicker. What’s even more amazing is that we did very well in kick off returns with the slowest KR ive ever seen except for maybe Najeh Davenport.
by Area 51 Forever on Jan 14, 2010 7:59 PM EST reply actions
Yes, I was thinking of Rock
as in stone, which typically remain stationary. Hmmm…that might be more ARE with his fair catches.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Keep Him!
His coverage units are solid. And is Coach Smith the coach that dreamed up the fake FG that got us our first points of the season? And then again to beat the Broncos and help knock them out of the playoffs? Get rid of Randle El and let Devon, DeAngelo, and Santanna rotate as the returner for a year. One more year for Coach Smith just for the jaw full of gum alone.
You do remember
that Danny Smith specifically requested that the Redskins draft Durant Brooks, right? Using a draft pick on him wasn’t something that Cerrato or Zorn or Snyder planned on doing. Also, there has to be a good amount of responsibility placed on his shoulders for keeping Randle El back there in punt returns. We can’t pretend like the guy who is IN CHARGE OF SPECIAL TEAMS couldn’t have told a weak head coach (Jim Zorn) that ARE needed to stay away from special teams. What, he can get a sixth round pick to use on a guy who probably would have been available in free agency, but he can’t change the PR? Or he can draw up plays for his punter and kicker to do some Wildcat stuff and actually see those plays used in games, but he can’t send ARE back to the offense? No. Danny Smith kept ARE back there for years, and to not blame him for that is just dumb. Y’all like him a little better than other coaches who have come through here? Fine. But don’t make the man out to be infallible. He might well be worth keeping, but that doesn’t mean we should delude ourselves to believe that they’ll rename the Lombardi Trophy in his honor.
"One-on-one? You can't." -Gilbert Arenas
JC Bandwagon all day!
ksean , Have you seen our pizz poor blocking on returns ??
by LETJASONPASS on Jan 15, 2010 6:01 AM EST up reply actions
Yes!
Yet another thing that Danny Smith should be held accountable for! I’m not saying he’s a horrible coach, but we can’t praise him for the good things and blame everyone else for the bad things. Is he worth keeping? Maybe. That depends on who else is available to be hired at the position, what he plans to do to improve upon his weaknesses, etc etc.
"One-on-one? You can't." -Gilbert Arenas
JC Bandwagon all day!
It's hard for me to like Smith when he subjected us to ARE punt returns for the past few years
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
I think, assuming they address the return guy issues - i.e. who?
They will be a source of little drama in what looks to be a sea of change next year. I’ll go with a little stability anywhere I can get it.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Joshua Cribbs
is a gadget player. See: Dante Hall. Dante Hall was a beast. Returning punts like crazy, throwin’ up the X. Where’s he at now? Seriousl, where is he? Devin Hester used to be a nasty returner, now he’s an average receiver at best. Cribbs looks sweet on the Browns because he’s the only glimmer of athleticism. If our team was that miserable, I’d be all for Cribbs, but we have a scheme and talented player. WE DONT NEED HIM.
Cribbs is a much better offensive weapon than Hester or Hall
MUCH.
That said, I don’t want him. We can’t afford that contract.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
he won't last long
Cribbs is great but no returner stays great for a long period of time. Paying massive amounts of money to a short term player is the way the old Redskins did business and how they managed to be terrible for 18 years in a row.
Hester would still be great if they left him at return.
And as I’ve said, Cribbs is far more than a return man. He’s a great offensive weapon.
Still, I agree, I do not want him on our team.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
which means they'll sign him to a 12-year contract
thank god those days are over (Vinny)
"It was one of those things where everyone in the building was suddenly excited again," Cerrato said. "And all the women in the building were the most excited. They couldn't believe we were getting the guy from "Dancing With the Stars."
by Kevin Ewoldt on Jan 16, 2010 3:56 AM EST up reply actions
Kevin, Brian Mitchell was the one player that we have had in the past 30 years that could do it all. What people are missing is that Joshua " The Lethal Weapon" Cribbs is more exsplosive than B Mitch.
B. Mitch played 14 years (NFL) 13 TD’s kick and punt return total. By the way this is the NFL all time record !!!
Joshua Cribbs 5 years ( NFL) 10 TD’s kick and punt return he has only been returning punts 2 years. (only 3 less in alot less time)
They are also similar in size B Mitch 5’11" 221 lbs
J Cribbs 6’1" 215 lbs
by LETJASONPASS on Jan 17, 2010 5:13 AM EST up reply actions
afan , he will not last long ?? lol he has been returning kicks for five years and punts the last two. I can tell by alot of you guys posts you really have know idea about Joshua :The lethal Weapon" Cribbs.
By the way he is a all-pro player
by LETJASONPASS on Jan 17, 2010 4:58 AM EST up reply actions
GM!
Well this may happen but the reason every thing is so messed up is simple. There was no chain of command without a GM. Cerrato was just a flat tire on a Indy car. Now that all four wheels are in place the ride should smooth out.
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