SI.com Explains Their Redskins' 2009 Prediction to Us, including Peter King's 6-10
by KevinE on Sep 4, 2009 11:00 AM EDT
in Interviews
73 comments
SportsIllustrated.com just posted their preview for the Redskins, and we were able to catch up with the SI.com author, Adam Duerson, who answered our questions, including why so many professional columnists, including Peter King, have the Redskins winning only 6 games this year.
Hogs Haven: In your preview, you had a lot of conversation with Haynesworth and Phillip Daniels. What kind of season statistically do you think the defense has to have in order for Haynesworth to be worth the money and hype, including the number of games Albert has to play?
SI.com: You nailed it on the head: Haynesworth's impact needs to be measured in team statistics, not by Haynesworth's sacks or tackles alone. And yes, that starts with getting Albert on the field. I pointed out that he's missed time-12 starts in the last three seasons-to injury and suspension. In talking to Haynesworth in August, he seemed determined to go 16 straight. Shame on me for believing him. The missed practices and missed preseason games already should be a warning. Now, if this guy gets on the field for 14 games I'll be shocked.
So what do I need to see to make him worth the money? Ideally you'd like those 14 or so games. And then you want to see the turnovers and sacks-albeit not all from Albert-bump up a bit. How a defense consistently ranks so highly without getting pressure in the backfield is beyond me. For what the Skins paid, I think you have to see a jump into the top third of the league in sacks, which would mean about 15 more than their mere 24 last year. Lucky for Haynesworth he has Daniels (who still has something left in my book) and Orakpo (who'll be raw but respectable) contributing to the cause in ‘09.
Hogs Haven: Looking at this Redskins team and comparing it to the surprise teams from the last couple of seasons, specifically Atlanta last year, isn't there plenty of reason to think this team is talented enough to overcome the low expectations from league analysts?
Well, the difference is that most of those surprise teams came out of nowhere with relatively new lineups or coaches. Atlanta, Miami, Baltimore-the teams I'm presuming you're looking to for hope-were largely retooled last year and they had some guys overachieve or exceed the media's expectations. Washington really hasn't done much to change though, have they? I'll give you the defensive changes. But the offense, which rolled over late in ‘08, is really the problem here. And what's new? Nothing for the good that I can tell. I think you can only go so many years hoping that something will click with guys who've been together a while-Cooley, Campbell, Moss, Portis, Randle El-before you have to start over. This has to be that year, right?
If you put Washington in a division without the East's defensive pedigree, I think their chances for surprise would be quite higher. Then you'd be in the same boat as, say, Arizona last year. That team hadn't changed much in a few years, and I think they just kinda gelled in a pushover division. (Then they got hot, confident, etc...) But the NFC East and NFC West are mightily different. No pushover defenses to speak of.
Hogs Haven: Is Chris Cooley a top-5 tight end in this league anymore? There is a lot of talent at the position these days. What is your perception of the kind of player he is and do you think he has already played his best years?
Eighty-three catches at tight end is pretty hard to argue against, don't you think? If anything, I think Cooley's stats say something about Jason Campbell's conservativeness. Don't you wish he was throwing just some of those balls a little deeper, taking some risks? I spent less time watching the tight ends this summer, so I won't dwell on the subject, but I think this is a position you should consider yourself set at for a number of years.
Hogs Haven: Peter King has the Giants 12-4, Cowboys 10-6, Eagles 9-7, and Skins 6-10. The Sporting News has the Skins at 4-12. Why do you think so many columnists rank the Skins so low considering all the additions Washington made and all the problems the other NFC East teams are having? The Eagles lost starting LB Bradley, Brian Dawkins, and Jim Johnson (RIP). The Cowboys have done nothing this off-season to upgrade their suspect defense, and the Giants have MAJOR concerns at WR, which Eli is visibly frustrated by. In addition, the Skins play the Rams, Lions, and Oakland. They seem to base their rankings off last year's 2-6 finish.
I'll start by saying that I like a lot of Peter's picks. Bears-Patriots makes sense to me. And he's high on the Pack; how can't you be? But what you see in the magazine is precisely that: Peter's picks. And I disagree with him a little on the Skins. I got into a heated email chain with a Washington fan who hated Peter's 6-10 pick yesterday, and the guy made some good points. Ignore what the official strength of schedule formula says: the Skins might have the easiest 10-game non-division slate in the NFL. Also consider that they haven't changed terribly from their .500 2008 squad. Now they're starting to sound a little like those surprise Cardinals in ‘08, eh?
Meanwhile, all three teams in their division have changed dramatically. And in all three cases, including Dallas, I would argue that change was for the worse. So maybe you give them three wins in-division. That's being generous. And now look at these lowly teams they face: Rams, Lions, Bucs, Chiefs, Broncos, Raiders. How do they not win every single one of those? If they do all of that, they're 9-7. Throw in a win over Atlanta or Carolina and they're playoff contenders.
So where are these other prognosticators coming from? I think people are a little too high on the division in general. (Media = East coast = Giants fans?) But mostly, yes, I think disappointment in how Washington finished last year has to be a big part of it. That team showed no guts. And a gutless team is a hard team to pick.
I think those last two sentences are intriguing. Even this pre-season at times the Redskins have not shown good hustle. Blache has been reaming his defense for sloppy play and missed tackles. The large number of penalties also shows a lack of concentration. It seems to be a consistent occurrence when you build a team from free agency. As Ted Leonsis said, the free agents should compliment the youth, not the other way around.
As for Peter King, I don't see how the Bears make the Super Bowl. Oh, that's right. Favre is on the way out so King has to pick the next best "gun-slinger," Brett Favre II Jay Cutler to win it all.
I do have a problem with Adam's comment, "But the offense, which rolled over late in ‘08, is really the problem here. And what's new? Nothing for the good that I can tell." In his article, he has a whole section dedicated to Devin Thomas learning the West Coast offense and that "change is coming." So which one is it? Well, I think we know the answer watching Malcolm, Devin, Fred and Marko the past four weeks. Change is here.
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That team showed no guts. And a gutless team is a hard team to pick.
That is hard to take as a Redskins fan, but that is the most honest answer of what occured to a 6-2 team to go to 8-8.
It is always said when a starting player goes down someone else needs to step up, and take more of a leadership role to ensure the team does not collapse. The Redskins did not have anyone step up including Jason Campbell, which may explain why he was looked at being replaced. Less for his performance ability and more for his lack of leadership.
This team is shifting to a younger group of leaders, so hope is in the air….
by dr WNC on Sep 4, 2009 11:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey
Sorry for the attitude here, but I had to say something about your weasel, POS, soulless owner of yours Dan Snyder. Suing his loyal fans because they cannot afford their season tickets anymore in this terrible economy. What an effin rat.
Your POS owner actually made it an intention to sue a 70 year old lady who has been a season ticket holder for 40+ years. The front page in the Washigton times is that old lady, crying because that insensitive owner of yours sued her for 64,000 dollars because she could not afford her tickets anymore.
I hope your owner burns in hell not just for how he has ruined the structure of this league, but how he can do this to his loyal fans. Again, sorry for the harsh comment, but I cannot say it to his face.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Sep 4, 2009 12:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
We have another story from yesterday related to this topic you can comment on....
We don’t need another day of anger,e specially on this post…it’s Friday of Labor day weekend.
by KevinE on Sep 4, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Way to take out your anger on the victims
by BayAreaBullet on Sep 4, 2009 12:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry Kevin. Your owner infuriates me with the way he runs his team. He is the only owner I know that literally has every say with what happens on his team and does not let people do their jobs. Jerry Jones is up there to. How can this happen when there is supposedly over 100,000 people on the waiting list for season tickets.
And I did not mean to have it blow up like it did below, sorry.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Sep 4, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no worries
you’re preaching to the choir tho…think we’re all fed up with Fedex.
by KevinE on Sep 4, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Drawn & Quartered
OK….. Its called business dip shyt. Finish high school before you speak again; your GED is insufficient for your opinion to matter here, even to yourself. ALL NFL teams have sued people over ticket cotracts, even Green Bay, whom is publicly owned. So before you come on here to talk smack, you may want to make sure you have the right facts, not the little tidbits you pull out of your ass or what you read from some left wing-fellating, DYING newpaper. Break yo-self nigga ,before i come on your site and shyt all over you’re Crapimore Crap-birds all weekend.
by TheOverLordMarshl on Sep 4, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So before you come on here to talk smack, you may want to make sure you have the right facts, not the little tidbits you pull out of your ass or what you read from some left wing-fellating, DYING newpaper.
The Washington Times is about as far to the left as the New York Post and Fox News.
by David M. Getz on Sep 4, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Finish High School?
Ha! I love it. I am in my senior year at University of Maryland and interning at Hood and Scholnick law firm in DC. Yea, so I think I am slightly past GED now. And I would love for you to come over to our blog. What smack could you possibly talk when the Ravens have dominated the state of Maryland since we have come into the league in 1996. How many playoff wins do you have compared to us over the last ten seasons? I am just curious.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Sep 4, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, at least D.C. isn't rampant with AIDS, abandoned shopping centers, and illiterate people
(i went to college in Balmer)
by KevinE on Sep 4, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah don’t pick on Mr. Fancy Pants Law Firm Intern guys!!! He dropped some names so clearly he’s a super genius. You non Skolnick people should respect your betters!!
by BayAreaBullet on Sep 4, 2009 2:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Well, at least D.C. isn’t rampant with AIDS, abandoned shopping centers, and illiterate people
D.C. has a higher rate of AIDS infection than Baltimore and more than 1/3 of D.C. residents are functionally illiterate.
by David M. Getz on Sep 4, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah but
those people are known as congressmen
I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....
by piratedan7 on Sep 4, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They’re also known as people that have come from Baltimore to try and make everyone from D.C. infected with AIDS and stupidity. They then go back to Baltimore once they’ve accomplished this task.
by bigrm18 on Sep 4, 2009 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dont forget the heroin addicts, that cause the spread of AIDS……
by TheOverLordMarshl on Sep 5, 2009 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Ravens have dominated the state of Maryland since we have come into the league in 1996.
It’s pretty easy to dominate the state of Maryland when you’re the only team in Maryland don’t you think? I’m not sure if you know this Mr. law firm intern, but the WASHINGTON Redskins represent Washington D.C.
What is now D.C. used to be MD, but that was several years ago so you don’t get a pass on that one Mr. law firm intern.
The Redskins are a part of the NFC East with the Cowboys, Eagles, and Giants. You get to face the Browns and Bengals every year, and the Baltimore Colts… oops, the Browns…oops, the Ravens have a losing record against the Steelers. You may have more playoff appearances since 1996 (2 more, yay!) but in the end you ended up right back at home with the Redskins except for one of those appearances.
The Colts… oops, the Browns… oops, the Ravens (gosh darn it I keep doing that) have only been in the league 13 years and can only hope that they have half the hall of fame players, super bowl appearances, rich tradition, and the enormous amount of fans that we do. Until you do you shouldn’t be talking because you aren’t on our level yet Mr. law firm intern. Come back to Hogs Haven in about 62 years, and if the Colts…(oops almost did it again) if the Ravens are still around then we might be able to talk.
by bigrm18 on Sep 4, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
and at least our team isn’t named after a manic-depressive, opium smoking poet!
by pas493 on Sep 4, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what are the odds
he even KNOWS who that “manic-depressive, opium smoking poet” is? I wrote a sarcastic The Ravenparody-poem a few years ago and sent it to some friends of mine who are Ravens fans. 5 of them. NONE had any clue what it was referring to. Since then I’ve asked numerous Ravens fans about it, and am constantly surprised at how few actually know. Very funny.
I mean, it’d be one thing if the team team name had been around for a long time. But it hasn’t. It’s still a pup. Or rather, a little baby bird, tap-tap-tapping on the door to the NFL’s round table of winning franchises.
by CJHutch on Sep 5, 2009 2:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
to be fair
the fact that he IS in college should give him a pass on the comment
since we have come into the league in 1996
He probably does not realize that that team did not “since we have come into the league in 1996.” It just defected to Dundalk because IT’S POS OWNER wouldn’t foot the bill for his own stadium in Cleveland. He had been paying a *DOLLAR A YEAR for his lease since the 70’, yet that wasn’t enough of a fleecing for him to upgrade the stadium, so he skipped town. Enter Baltimore – the city who claimed they were still reeling from the Midnight Mayflower run. Only they weren’t really, because most of the Dundalkians don’t even remember the Colts being there. They became solely a baseball town, only their once great baseball team had become embattled in losses and controversy due solely to it’s POS owner.
So, here we are, in 2010, with the Charmless city having lost their STORIED football franchise, therefor pillaging one from another city. And what team did they get from Cleveland? A team on the upswing, which had 2 first round draft picks that it used to draft 2 franchise cornerstones/future HOF-ers. Now, one of those HOF’ers JUST retired, and the other one will soon. So forgive these Dundalk Dolts if they don’t understand the full spectrum of a football franchise. They’re team has been around for less than ONE generation. Well, if you only count the Baltimore years.
And forgive them for pointing the finger at the owners in other cities, the Colts taught them a long time ago to block out their own reality.
by CJHutch on Sep 4, 2009 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nope
He goes to the University of Maryland and is Mr. law firm intern. He should know the difference between Washington D.C. and Maryland. Especially since he goes to the University of Maryland and is Mr. law firm intern. It’s not easy going to the University of Maryland and being Mr. law firm intern, but if anyone can do it Mr. law firm intern can. So because he goes to the University of Maryland and is Mr. law firm intern he gets no pass.
That is all
by bigrm18 on Sep 4, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what's ironic
is that, from the sound of his "I am “Mr. law firm intern” speech, he uses that fact to establish his obvious superiority. What do lawyers with superiority complexes do? They stay on retainer with large corporations and squeeze litte old ladies for all their worth.
Remember when Marty Schottenheimer denegrated Dan Snyder, then ended up working for him?
by CJHutch on Sep 5, 2009 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
While, for the most part, I agree with your first post (despite how it is misplaced and completely irrelevant to this topic), I find it comical that you would use the Ravens as a superior organization.
Here a just a few points you are unaware of or decided to conveniently ignored:
1. You want to talk about POS owners? Try not be so hypocritical considering the only reason Baltimore even has a team is because of another POS owner. Sure Modell is gone but he is, without a doubt, the entire reason the Ravens even exist.
2. The 2000 Super Bowl is a stolen championship. Cleveland deserved that championship, not Baltimore. After 50 years in Cleveland, the Browns spent a mere four seasons in Baltimore before their Super Bowl run. At least Carolina had the decency to wait nine years before winning Hartford’s Stanley Cup. (Heck, at least nine years is almost a decade… enough to start building a real fan base.)
3. You want to talk about playoff records in the past 10 seasons? Not including the stolen Super Bowl season, the Ravens playoff record is 3-4, not exactly much better than the Redskins’ 2-3 record. (BTW, if you insist on including the Raven’s stolen Super Bowl season, well I’m going to have to insist on including the Skins’ 3 Super Bowl and 23 playoff wins.)
by superjuan on Sep 5, 2009 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Smack talking? You must not know me yet.....
hmm lets see… how much of a baby-dick syndrome you so obviously hold near and dear to you heart for starters. how about your inability to see that your city is a straight up piss-hole, filled with heroin addict zombies. how about the fact that i saw your girlfriend boyfriend outside Crapden Yards selling his ass for a 10 bag of crank. how about i just called that shitty law firm you “intern” for and they replied as follows
“Oh, that little douche? He’s the office drag queen. Even though no one here likes him, Mr. Hood likes to plug him a few times a day, so for now, we have no choice but to keep him around. But he’s an intern so his ‘services’ are free of charge. Something that Mr. Hood enjoys immensely”
Your team has and always will take a the back seat to the history and tradition that is the redskins in this area. sure, you may have some valid points about our owner, but keep this in mind you, winning and losing in the nfl are cyclical. before you try to get all high and mighty like your team has more than 1 trophy, pull your head out of your ass and look at your team. Old and soon retiring or retards that cant learn an in depth play book. within 4 years you will be a 3 win team. Remove your left ovary and bet on it.
Now, Want me to keep going or do you yield bitch? I will crush you.
by TheOverLordMarshl on Sep 5, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Law Intern
it’s okay guys, I also have interned and am actually in law school. I know better! Hahaha just kidding, i just laughed my ass off when i was catching up on the thread and saw some kid tried to establish street cred by saying he was a legal intern who was still in college & actually mentioned the firm by NAME.
by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Sep 6, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah!
Dan Snyder’s alma mater!
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
by DbacksSkins on Sep 5, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow guys!
Holy shit! This may be the most psychotic blog I have been on. I stated what I am currently doing with my life when someone said I am a GED graduate, and everyone took it soooo far. I am actually honored that you all dedicated half of a story to bickering about me, while I was not even involved in the conversation. Congrats on living your eventful lifestyle of sitting here all day and talking about me rather than Redskins football. Again, I am honored to have made so many of you upset. Some loser from here ACTUALLY made it a point to create a fan shot of his sister and post it on our blog. I should have came back here and checked this out earlier, looked like fun. Hilarious
To all who took time out of their busy lives to keep my name in the back of their minds for so long, I ask you to do 2 things for me. 1) Start winning some football games for me and make an impact in this league. 2) Keep scrubbing them toilets for me so I can place my intern ass on some clean porcelain.
I will not return to this post to check replies or comment back, so I ask you to pleaseeee dedicate more time out of your sad lives to talking about me.
K? Thanks. Bye.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Sep 6, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
We the fans want big name players like Haynesworth we may not want over the hill big name players like we have previously gotten but we have to pay a price for the list of headliners we have on our team. Do I agree with sueing the fans no, do I feel sorry for them, no it’s common sence don’t sign anything till you read it and understand it completely. Especially when it has to do with a long term financial committment. You would feel bad for a life time Ford owner who buys a truck he can’t afford and then gets sued when he can’t make the payments would you? This is a business run by a business man albeit the entertainment business it is still just brand loyalty, we are all fans of the sport and we all have a certain loyalty towards the team if you don’t like it cheer for another team but you won’t see me put myself in a position to get sued because some sleezy salesperson tries to get me to mortgage my future to go watch my team play.
by skinsfan28 on Sep 4, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And
Defending the owner is not something any of us want to do.
But a contract is a contract and a business is a business.
I guess someone should bail out all the owner of the houses which are being foreclosed too, POS banks
Maybe our goverment could help season tickect holder….
by dr WNC on Sep 4, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We have like 5 “gimmes”
lions, rams, bucs, raiders, broncos
chiefs, falcons, and saints are ok
East is obviously Rough though Cowboys are overrated and chargers and panthers should be pretty good.
These guys are basically saying, we’ll win the gimmes, beat 1 of 3 of the ok teams, and go 0-6 in the east and not win against chargers and panthers? I’m not saying we’re definitely a playoff team but really 4 or 6 wins? I don’t see it.
by BrandonLloyd on Sep 4, 2009 12:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
For what it’s worth, I’d move the Falcons from ‘okay’ to ‘pretty good’ I think they’re closer to Carolina and San Diego than Kansas City and New Orleans.
by David M. Getz on Sep 4, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d put New Orleans and Falcons above Carolina for this season
by travisjh86 on Sep 4, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough. Personally I’ve given up trying to predict what the Saints are going to look like.
by David M. Getz on Sep 4, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
NO at Washington December 6th
I"ve got this circled as a potential Wildcard spot differentiator game; I think both teams could be in the Wildcard mix, and the outcome of this game could be the difference in NO in the Playoffs, or Washington.
My preseason has Giants, Minnesota, Atlanta, Arizona, Philadelphia, and one of NO, GB, Chicago, or Washington as the sixth team (I have NO confidence in the Cowboys this season).
That’s not a “Homer” POV, by the way; Washington could be anywhere from 6-10 to just possibly 11-5 in my book this year.
by BillWard on Sep 5, 2009 7:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think what he is saying is that with no offense and no albert haynesworth, the redskins wont win- which is probably very true. and they are a .500 team with AH, which is probably in the ball park. so AH misses four games, which he has averaged three years in a row, and the redskins are 6-10.
this is actually the most well thought commentary from a professional magazine sports writer i can remember. he actually had thought through his opinion. he made be wrong, but at least he comes across as thinking about it a lot more deeply than the flufffy crap that is actually printed. heck, i think the biggest lesson is realizing there is talent behind those crappy articles!
still, the redskins line stinks, and the fact is they have neglected that entire half of the offense for at least 5 straight years. and vinny cerrato stinks at drafting players after the 16th pick. rounds 1-3 need to provide at least two starters every year and three on occasion. if they ever win 11 games under dan snyder it will be by accident. he just does not manage the team in the same manner as the perennial contenders are managed.
by les boulez bomber on Sep 4, 2009 1:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
chris horton?
Andray Blatche > Lebron James
by blatcheallstar09 on Sep 4, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chris Horton was a great pickup, especially for a second rounder. But he is the only major contributor of the entire draft last year. you can not win when you only add one starter a year through the draft. look how excited we are that we might have two this year! And we had three second round picks last year which we used on three receivers when we already have an all pro tight end and needed one receiver and two linemen. That is what I mean by he stinks. He has had some winning picks, but quite frankly, a twelve year old can subscribe to ESPN and use their draft guide and have just as much success. Compare how much money and draft picks have we spent on our receivers and the line. Fact is, we can not complete a pass downfield because the line can not protect the QB long enough for the receivers to get open downfield. It happens, but we can’t make it happen when we need it and the other team knows it.
The record speaks for itself. And I stand my by opinion that the will always be a 6-10 to 10-6 team under Dan Snyder on a consistent basis. He wants to win his way, which has shown time and time is a nearly impossible way to win with the salary cap in place. And I will be a fan my way: rooting for them all the way until they self destruct because they dont field a deep and balanced team.
by les boulez bomber on Sep 4, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
vinny cerrato stinks at drafting players after the 16th pick. rounds 1-3 need to provide at least two starters every year and three on occasion.
That’s pretty high expectations to ask for every year. Let’s take a look anyway at our recent drafts anyway.
2006 Draft
2nd round Rock Mcintosh-Starter
5th round Anthony Montgomery- was a starter at one point
6th round Reed Doughty-was a starter at one point
6th round Kedric Golston-was a starter at one point
2007 Draft
1st round Laron Landry-Starter
6th round H.B. Blades-could be a starter if needed
2008 Draft
2nd round Devin Thomas-might be a starter this year
2nd round Malcolm Kelly-probably will be a starter this year
2nd round Fred Davis-would be a starter if we didn’t have Cooley
6th round Kareem Moore-could be a starter if needed
6th round Colt Brennan-no comment
7th round Chris Horton-Starter
2009 Draft
1st round Brian Orakpo-Starter
3rd round Kevin Barnes-could be a starter once experience is gained
7th round Marko Mitchell-could be a starter once experienced is gained
It’s unrealistic to say that every single draft you should have players start for you and be productive in their first year, it just doesn’t happen like that, at least not on a regular basis. Not for the Redskins, not for the Patriots, not for the Ravens or anybody else in the league. However, when you actually sit down and look at the list of players that Cerrato drafted it’s pretty good.
we can not complete a pass downfield because the line can not protect the QB long enough for the receivers to get open downfield.
You obviously haven’t been looking at our preseason games this year have you? I’ve been impressed with our offensive line and even more impressed with the amount of times that Jason has thrown the ball down the field. I’ll tell you something else you may not be aware of. Our offensive line has yet to give up a sack the entire preseason. Also keep in mind the defenses we faced: Ravens, Steelers, and Patriots. Yes it’s only preseason but our line has certainly progressed since last year.
by bigrm18 on Sep 4, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the record is not pretty good. you laid it out perfectly: 4 full years of drafts and 4 starters today. I hope the others improve, but Cerrato takes too many chances on injured players with potential. I do think he is getting better. But they still can’t balance the team out, and the weakness left unattended will leave them watching games late in January.
no comment on the preseason other than it is over. hey, i really want them to do better. what i am saying is that the free pass days are over and they lost the benefit of the doubt. They are a mismanaged football club- as are the Orioles for the past 20 years.
Until they can make it to the NFC Championship (not even asking Super Bowl), then I stand by the facts and opinion. I am pretty darn sure the teams you mentioned, Pats, Steelers, and Ravens have added four starters over the previous four drafts.
So don’t get mad at me for pointing out the obvious. You can not build a winning tradition through free agency and adding a starter a year through the draft.
by les boulez bomber on Sep 5, 2009 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you have to look at the full picture
4 full years of drafts and 4 starters today.
Sure, we only have 4 starters drafted in the past 4 years. But who exactly are the rest of the picks gonna beat out? Blades has Fletcher in front of him. Davis has Cooley. Kelly and Davis are competing for ONE job, because neither is better than Moss. Moore isn’t overtaking Landry. Doughty got beat out by another draft pick. Barnes and Tryon are raw, but neiter would beat out Rogers or Hall anyway. Montgomery (or Golston) would be a starter if not for Haynesworth, (who would send 98% of the D-tackles in the league to the bench.)
Now, as much as I hate to give Vinny credit (oh, it BURNS), I will say this. He has, in the past two years, brought in young talent to fill out the roster. This hasn’t been the case over the past decade. A team doesn’t win because of it’s starters. In fact, you could easily argue that our starters, at most positions, stack up to anyone in the league. It’s the depth that’s key. That’s why Pittsburgh, New England, etc, have been so good. They draft for depth first, starters second.
by CJHutch on Sep 5, 2009 3:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure you know what you're talking about
Because you keep saying “four starters”, for example.
Right now, when we open against the Giants, FIVE of those draft picks will be starters, with MK being #5. HOWEVER, if they open with the Cobra Defense, Doughty will also start, which would be six. Doughty, by the way, would be a starter for a number of teams in the league; we have a VERY talented and deep group, with three guys on your list, only two of which “start”
Golston, Montgomery, Blades, Thomas, Davis and Mitchell will also see significant playing time not just on Special Teams units, and a couple are major players there as well.
A team has >22< starters, with some of those starters meant to play on the order a decade or so (O-Line, for example). Even advocating 2 starters minimum per year, that means every starter replaced in a decade. Ok, that’s fair… except it isn’t. Some players are stars, and play longer. and some you pick up in free agency. But while the “average” NFL Player’s career is something like 8 years, starters stay longer; we had a guy start for us for 18 or 19 of 20 seasons a few years back (yeah, that’s the other extreme, but….)
Some positions you don’t want a rookie to start (QB or CB, anyone?) Some, if a rookie isn’t starting, he may never start (RB?) Vinnie (Lord help me) has done a good job with the players he’s picked (then again, for every Horton, you get a Palmer….) He hasn’t had enough picks, and we’ve gotten hurt by injuries and of course there’s Sean (would you be complaining about Chris Horton and Reed Doughty not being starters if ST and LR were still back in the Safety spots?)
Nope, Vinnie is backfilling DEPTH, and has done a good job at identifying players that we can have step in and actually perform at starter quality levels… that’s what championship teams do. For once, we’re starting to be deep again. Yeah, the O-Line still needs work… but I bet we get a bit of help there next year.
by BillWard on Sep 5, 2009 8:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
.500 team with or with out AH
2008: .500 team No AH new head coach, new offense etc….
2009: AH for 14 games or 12 games, whatever. 2nd year head coach, 2nd year the same system…
Redskins become Less than .500, Why?
I agree that the SI guy had thoughtful thinking but overall the logic is not logic at all but stupidity.
by dr WNC on Sep 4, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2008: .500 team No AH new head coach, new offense etc….
2009: AH for 14 games or 12 games, whatever. 2nd year head coach, 2nd year the same system…
Redskins become Less than .500, Why?
2008 and 2009 are different seasons with different schedules so it’s not that kind of a simple apples-to-apples comparison.
by David M. Getz on Sep 4, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly!
2009 Redskins:
The prognosticators state no improvement on offense for the worse schedule, and AH will not play all 16 games.
Defensive additions besides Haynesworth will have no impact
Offense running the same offense 2 years in a row will not have an effect
Offense addition of Derrick Dockery will not have an effect
Schedule, will have no effect
Please explain why the 2009 Redskins should be less productive than the 2008 Redskins as everyone is picking, I’d pick an 11 win season this year…
Which can be explained beyond “homerism” much easier than only a 5 or 6 win season…
by dr WNC on Sep 4, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if their offensive line stinks, they will lose a lot of football games and 6-10 could happen. if their line is good, they will win a lot of games and 10-6 is possible. the line has no depth and will stink if one starter gets injured. chris samuels is actually the most important player on the team right now. if he misses significant time, the season is over.
by les boulez bomber on Sep 5, 2009 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would say
the only logical explanation is that the O-line is 1 year older. (With the exception of Dockery replacing Kendall)
"In the future, I want to be a fossil. Or, at least have my feces be fossilized"
-Pygalgia
by DbacksSkins on Sep 5, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't Compare to 8-8 in 2008 ....
Compare to 2-6 in the last half of 2008. I’ve been loving this team for more than 50 years, but to include the 6-2 start as an indicator of what they’ll do this year is hopeful thinking at best. I’ll go with 9-7.
SI in general and Don Banks and Peter King in particular hate the Redskins … have since the early 90’s.
by Rational Man on Sep 6, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I fully
agree on your Cerrato assessment, though the additions of Horton and Marko Mitchell remind me a little of Charley Casserly’s abitlity to find gems in the garbage. BUT…
i think what he is saying is that with no offense and no albert haynesworth, the redskins wont win- which is probably very true. and they are a .500 team with AH, which is probably in the ball park.
Where does this come from? I’m sorry, weren’t we .500 last year? Did we have Haynesworth then? Did we have an offense last year? No and no. Now, did we IMPROVE on last year’s .500 team? Yes. We upgraded to defense at MORE than just D-tackle. Did we improve on offense? I think so. At least it’s arguable. If not, then we at least stayed status quo on offense.
by CJHutch on Sep 5, 2009 3:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We upgraded
The fact that the offense is in it’s second year is automatically an upgrade. Add to the fact that our once rookie wide receivers are in their second year and are developing also boosts our offense this year. THEN add to the fact that our rookie head coach is in his second year of play calling and has said that he’s added over 70 plays to the offensive playbook this year. That increases the chances of the offense improving and decreases the chances that defenses will automatically know what we’re doing since we added so many plays.
Let’s not forget that we upgraded our offensive line (not as much as I’d like but still) by adding Dockery and inserting Heyer over Jansen. I think most importantly Jason Campbell is in his second year of the offense (did I just say that?). When’s the last time Campbell was able to study the same offensive playbook for two years in a row? So I think we definitely upgraded since last year on offense as well.
Nonetheless, we’re still going to go 6-10 this year when we went 8-8 last year!? Unless the special teams become special as in mentally and physically disabled special, and give up at least two touchdowns every game, I don’t see how we’re going to be worst than last year.
by bigrm18 on Sep 5, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Better than 6-10....I say 10-6.
I think the young guys are going to add a lot this year. Wait and see. I think you will see a more aggressive offense. I think the defense will be as good or better than last year. Adding to sack totals by a couple of dozen. Will we win the dvision. Tough to do but we will be measureably better. Wait and see you of little faith.
by patisok on Sep 4, 2009 2:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Adding to sack totals by a couple of dozen.
I don’t know if I’d go that far – that’d be a 100% increase.
But then, never say never, right?
by David M. Getz on Sep 4, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i hope you are both right. And the reasons you mentioned would be why. Plus, I hear the new holder will make the kicking game better by himself. They will get better no doubt. But we also have little depth at a few positions and almost none at others (linebacker, offensive line). And injuries always happen and are always a wild card. (along with a timely prison sentance in the NYG case)!
So with Dan’s track record and unknown injuries, I am more cautious that is all…hoping to be pleasantly surprised.
by les boulez bomber on Sep 4, 2009 2:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's obvious that whoever wrote the article didn't pay any attention to the preseason
by BillWard on Sep 4, 2009 2:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Or perhaps, like most of us, they just don’t put too much stock in it?
by David M. Getz on Sep 4, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not when they don't talk about MK but do talk about DT
They weren’t paying attention at all. MK is the step up guy, not MK.
by BillWard on Sep 5, 2009 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
coaching, being prepared...
As long as the team is not decimated by injuries, I think that it will ultimately come down to coaching. There are always a few games where one team is more prepared than the other team, both mentally and physically.
by benevolent skinsfan on Sep 4, 2009 5:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
listening to the writers defend their assessment of the 'Skins
is like listening to Jack Warden’s character on 12 Angry Men, just guys agreeing on a superficial basis with an established media bias. When those type of arguments are held up to close examination, they don’t bear scrutiny because the arguements made against the ‘Skins are the same arguments that can be made against anybody. Example, the O-Line is old, hence they are downgraded. Dallas’ O-line is even older, but they come off as “experienced”. The ‘Skins have suffered injuries in the past, does that mean that they will suffer them again? They are thin at some positions, i.e. what happens if Samuels gets hurt, well duh, I think that ANY team that loses a perennial pro bowl OL will suffer if that player is lost. Our guy is returning from injury, well injury concerns are certainly worrisome. Other teams guys are returning from injury, everyone is happy now that player A is healthy again! Dallas has the luxury of having Jon Kitna backing up Romo. Who do the Giants have backing up Eli? Gee didn’t the Eagles look pedestrian without Westbrook, well gosh, doesn’t he have the same injury issues as some of our O-Linemen, YET is that EVER mentioned?
This was a .500 team last year and they just got an EASIER schdule. The lack of playmakers was lamented on Defense, well they just added some, yet, they are supposed to regress. No pass rush, yet we just added one of the best pass rushing enablers to our roster and for good measure added what was thought to be THE best defensive player in the draft who’s specialty is rushing the passer, nope sorry we’ve pegged you for regression don’t see any hope of improvement. The Offense has been guilty of a lack of consistency, either in the core of the skill positions or in the people that draw up the game plan. Now we’re on the 2nd year of everyone on the same page, nope sorry no hope for improvement.
now if we crash and burn, these guys will be prophtetic, but I sure do want to drink the cool aid and think that this year could be a good one for us.
I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....
by piratedan7 on Sep 5, 2009 4:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Problem
is that we never commit to a team building strategy. The fact that Zorn after a .500 first season as a head coach is already thought to be fighting for his job is case and point. Now I was one of the people who thought Gregg Williams should’ve gotten the head coaching job but either way when you pick a coach you have to give him time to implement his system, draft players for that system, and make the occasional sound free agency deal. We always are willing to spend money but we don’t really draft to our needs. We end up high enough on talent to win some games but end up lacking coherence. Converting to a West Coast offense with Joe Gibbs smash mouth personnel and a long bomber qb are a great example of this.
Still I think we do have a legitimate shot at improving this year. The O-Line is still problematic but at least Rhinehart is looking like a legitimate backup, Heyer is healthy, and Dock’s return is helpful. The D has the potential to generate a lot more turnovers and muffle offenses. Combine it with the very manageable schedule and I think you have to conclude that the Skins truly control their own destiny this year. If they play with intensity and make sure to win all the games that they are supposed to win then they’re a playoff contender. If they allow stupid losses like they did last year (Rams, Bengals) then we won’t be.
by SkinsOsTerps on Sep 5, 2009 1:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
fans or front office
yes, but is it the fans who say Zorn is not a head coach or the front office
It seems as many fans want a change in HC, QB etc, it’s difficult as an owner to build a team when the fans expect immediate results.
IMO, the team is moving in the right direction, lets give it 5 years to see if it develops
by dr WNC on Sep 5, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t disagree. I have faith that if the organization is making good, long term moves the real fans will stay supportive. I agree that its going in the right direction (or at least a better direction). The real indicator in my opinion though of where this team is going to go will come next off season. I think we really dodged a bullet this year by not getting Cutler or Sanchez (thank you Jets) but my big concern is that anything less than a dazzling performance this year is going to result in another new coach, a new qb, and mortgaging the future hoping for instant success that just isn’t likely to happen. I think the biggest trait you see in teams that are competitive almost every year is continuity of system and philosophy. Thats what you have on teams like the Steelers or the Patriots (and what the Skins had back in the 80’s).
But yea time will tell.
by SkinsOsTerps on Sep 5, 2009 2:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
logic
Meanwhile, all three teams in their division have changed dramatically. And in all three cases, including Dallas, I would argue that change was for the worse. So maybe you give them three wins in-division.
Um, SI dude, you’re saying that all the other divisional teams got worse. Fine. Well, the Redksins have no major losses from last year’s team and some decent additions; and everyone is now in their second year of the Zorn playbook. And we went 3-3 in the division last year. Doesn’t that argue that we will get a minimum of three division wins, and more likely 4?
Then you call 'em in and say, 'It's the consensus among us that we're going to let you go back home.' Some of them cry, some get mad, but none of them will leave until you answer them one question, 'Skipper, what do you think?' And you gotta look every one of those kids in the eye and kick their dreams in the ass and say no. If you say it mean enough, maybe they do themselves a favor and don't waste years learning what you can see in a day. —Earl Weaver
by zknower on Sep 5, 2009 7:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I have learned
That the key to a good Redskins season is like presidential primary politics… Play the “expectations game”. Every season I have had high, or moderate hopes for the Redskins, the Redskins plummet. Every season I think it will be 6-10, or 4-12, PLAYOFFS!
by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Sep 6, 2009 12:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Then hopefully you're thinking 0-16...
RAK EM UP!
by VA_Skin on Sep 6, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Football Season
I am a Skins fan and we are all entitled to our own opinion. I believe that we will have a great team this season.
by joeyjust4u2 on Sep 7, 2009 8:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Confused
It makes me mad how the Redskins get no respect at all around the league and if you didn’t know better it sounds as if we will be lucky to see 4/5 wins this year. We swept the Eagles last year and beat the Cardinals and 1-1 against the Cowboys and 0-2 against the Giants. These teams are hyped week after week, but I think we are right there with them and will EARN our respect on the field this year! Peter King always dogs the team, I think it’s because Dan and Vinny won’t let him play with them.
by Beltwayboy on Sep 8, 2009 10:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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