Never thought I'd say it, but I see a Zorn-Campbell rift coming
We've been talking about it since Sunday. Jim Zorn took Jason Campbell out of the offense during our last two trips to the red zone against the Rams. FYI I'm not talking about the victory formation "drive." Yes, we were in the red zone, but we were kneeling it out.
Next drive: After a JC fumble, the Redskins retain possession. 16-yard pass to Malcolm Kelly, deep incompletion to Kelly, 5-yard run by JC, 4-yard pass to ARE. That series of plays gets us to the Rams 20, the cusp of the red zone. Now it's all runs: CP, LB, LB, CP, CP. 16 total yards, including that two-yard loss on 4th down. I appreciate going for it -- in the end it was better than the field goal. But the fact still remains that Campbell became nothing more than a middle man for his halfbacks to run the offense once he brought the team across the 20.
Why would Jim Zorn do that? Well, on the previous two drives into the red zone, he had called almost all passing plays. Got nothing out of it. But whose fault was that, really? Devin Thomas's on the first one. He dropped a TD pass. Mike Sellers on the second. He, also, dropped a TD pass. Never JC's fault.
"OK, we know all this. We saw the game, too. We read Hog's Haven, too. Get to the point."
Here's my point. Jim Zorn was perceived throughout all last year and, especially, during the offseason as attached at the hip to Jason Campbell. When the trade and draft rumors popped up and were eventually confirmed as failed attempts, Jim Zorn seemed to stand by Jason Campbell. But maybe not so. Maybe he asked for that trade to happen. When it didn't happen, he let Snyder and Cerrato take all the heat while he played the PR game as best as he could (apparently better than the coaching-against-the-Rams game that's he's played a couple of times). Maybe he just doesn't trust Jason Campbell to be a good QB.
And so now we've got a problem. Jason Campbell proved twice on Sunday that if you give him a red zone series, he'll put this team in the position to score. All he asks is that his teammates learn to hold onto a football -- he's been asking that since last year, so I hope he isn't holding his breath. But Zorn went away from the passing game. Was he showing that he didn't trust his receivers to catch well-thrown passes, or was he telling Jason that, "hey, you had your opportunity to put the ball in the endzone, and now it's time for the running backs to show you how it's done." Some have talked about Jason Campbell's above-average accuracy despite his WRs' below-average hand-stickiness; others have wondered why Jim Zorn is afraid of the deep ball. So when will Jason Campbell start to hold a grudge against Jim Zorn for not trusting him to do what he's good at: throw high-accuracy passes of almost any distance? [Note: I'm not trying to make JC out to be a football god or anything, I just think that his passing game is so much more versatile than Zorn's passing-play selection. So don't jump down my throat for saying this.]
And here's what I'm wondering: if a real (and perhaps public) rift forms between these two guys, whose side does Snyder come down on? Yes, he tried to get rid of Campbell in the offseason, but Snyder knows what the fans are saying, and the voices against Zorn are, right now, immensely louder and more plentiful than those against JC17. Of course, there's the possibility that Snyder is rubbing his hands together menacingly right now: "They've turned against each other. Perfect. They'll destroy each other and I can replace them both in the offseason and look like the owner with his hands tied by team disunity. Muhuhahahahaha!!!"
How's it going to turn out folks? If Snyder was to pick a side, based on the summer, I'd lean towards him picking Zorn's side. But there's very little behind Campbell at QB, and Snyder knows that. Of course, from a financial standpoint, he'd owe Campbell nothing to cut ties with him at the end of the year, and very little to do so before then; Zorn has a contract that would still be honored even if he got fired. But let me know what you think. I'm sure there's much more I haven't considered.
3 recs |
38 comments
Comments
it wouldn't surprise me
at all if a rift developed between these two. Obviously, it’s the last chance for both of them. If Zorn moves on, it’s doubtful he’d ever be considered for another coaching gig. And if Campbell moves on, it will most likely be as a backup. At least in the beginning. The difference is, Zorn has more control over the situation. Like Zorn himself said, JC HAS to run his plays. So if Zorn is handcuffing Campbell while JC is trying to stay afloat himself, of course he’s gonna get frustrated. Right now I think JZ is on a hotter seat than JC. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if Snyder pulled the plug on the Zorn experiment should we SOMEHOW lost to Detroit, whereas Campbell will most likely get the whole year. I still think Zorn’s best bet is to unshackle Jason and let him prove himself one way or another.
by CJHutch on Sep 23, 2009 8:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Value
The Redskins learned during the “off-season” that Campbell has no value in the league or a trade would have been made, especially with a 6 million dollar back-up ready to step in. After the loss to Detroit today and given the 4th and one scenario play call and the “hook and ladder” play call on the last play of the game rather than going for the end zone with the chance of getting a penalty, Zorn should be fired not later than 9:01 AM September 28, 2009.
by Slammin'Sam on Sep 27, 2009 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What does JC think?
He’s been very smart by staying silent (for the most part) on the subject but what’s really going on inside his head. From what the professional commentators have said, JC has played well enough that if the Redskins cut him he’ll get another shot in the NFL. If JZ keeps taking him out of the game when the team is in the redzone then JZ is playing right into that because JC has the perfect reason why he hasn’t thrown a bunch of TDs. Any pro team that thinks about taking him will review all the game tape and see that JZ hasn’t been calling plays for TDs.
What I hate about the whole thing is that I think JC can become (or already is) a good enough QB and if they just let him go he’ll go somewhere else and do well. Meanwhile we getting nothing for developing him – no trade, no draft picks, nothin’.
by ZakInOmaha on Sep 23, 2009 8:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
You make an excellent point that if he goes somewhere else he is very likely to excel and we won’t even get a consolation prize for it. I think he can become a good quarterback as well given the opportunity and I get so upset when people blame everything on him. I have a lot of friends that I argue with each week who’ve been saying he’s junk and I’m happy to see there are others out there that think he’s better than the bad rap he’s given. Not that he’s perfect, but he’s not the horrible QB some people have made him out to be (IMO).
by SkinsGirl07 on Sep 23, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't bring myself to vote for this.
It’s a fair question with everything that’s been circulating, but I would disagree with your speculation as to why certain plays were called.
With three minutes left in the game, Zorn isn’t calling runs because he doesn’t trust Jason to make a play, he’s calling runs to milk the clock. They were the right plays to call.
It’s too early to discern a real trend yet, let’s see how it goes this weekend.
by Boo. on Sep 23, 2009 10:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree with Boo.
Too early to try and pickup trends.
And these two guys are too smart to hold grudges and create rifts over insignificant reasons. They both just want to do their best, win games, and get to the Superbowl.
by SSBlitz on Sep 23, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
While I agree
I wouldn’t call a players career an “insignificant reason”
I'm to young to Die Danny...don't make me do it tomorrow....
by Rekka on Sep 23, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking more about
not being called to throw enough in the red zone. Or having gadget plays called that take the ball out of your hands. Both are definitely questionable decisions, but not something Campbell will get angry over.
by SSBlitz on Sep 23, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tough to say, in my opinion
Campbell keeps a pretty medium persona, but I for one assume that, since he’s not an android, he does have genuine emotions and feelings. While he might not allow them to define his personality and public image, I do believe that he does have opinions (positive or negative? tough to tell) about the type of game Zorn asks him to play.
"One-on-one? You can't." -Gilbert Arenas
JC Bandwagon all day!
by kseandoyle on Sep 23, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair point
But it still seems odd to me that throughout the second half, as soon as Campbell got us across the 20-yard line, he was taken out of the game. Yes, you do want to milk the clock, but an even better way to make sure the Rams don’t come back is by going up by 9 points directly before or after the 2-minute warning. When you start talking about that kind of stuff, my question is this: when we have a slim fourth-quarter lead (7 points or less), will Zorn coach to seal the victory, or simply to preserve the lead?
Yes, it might be too early to discern this year’s trend, but this seems to me to be stemming from last year’s collapse and Zorn’s change in coaching style since then… My opinion, any way.
"One-on-one? You can't." -Gilbert Arenas
JC Bandwagon all day!
by kseandoyle on Sep 23, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely good points
But I think Zorn has shown a tendency to be aggressive and coach to win in the past. Going for it on 4th against Philly last year is an example. The big problem is that he still hasn’t figured out how to use his personnel consistently in every situation throughout an entire game.
We’ve made a lot of assumptions about the talent on the team—some of us think there is a lot some of us think there is a lot of garbage— but I don’t think we know what we have yet, and I don’t think Zorn does either. The injuries screwed things up at the end of last season, and so far this season we’ve struggled to put it together for 4 quarters. It sucks the team has no identity yet, and the impatience is justified, but we won’t know what we have really for a few more weeks.
The question of who bites the bullet also won’t be figured out ‘til later. I think it will come down to whether Snyder wants Zorn back and Zorn wants Campbell back. Campbell is a FA, and if Zorn is gone, Campbell will not stick around. If the team does well through 16 games, I think all parties involved (except maybe 106.7 the Fan and it’s army of brainwashed malcontents) will want to keep things medium.
by Boo. on Sep 23, 2009 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's possible
I don’t think Campbell has ever even been in a fight before. I could see Campbell being frustrated inside (he might be right now) but I don’t know if he would eventually release that frustration onto Zorn. However, if Campbell is supposed to be a captain he shouldn’t be afraid to speak his mind if he feels that he’s being hindered from helping this team win the way he knows how.
Considering Shanahan and Cowher are on the market, I’d say that Zorn would be the first to go. Is there a QB that will be available at the end of the season that is all that great? Either through free agency or through the draft. I don’t watch college football so I haven’t a clue as to who would be available or if they would even be better than Campbell. Plus, if Snyder was torn about getting rid of Zorn or Campbell, I guarantee you that Portis would tell him exactly who he wants Snyder to get rid of. I could be wrong, but I have a feeling that Portis supports Campbell much more than he supports Zorn deep down inside.
by bigrm18 on Sep 23, 2009 12:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i agree
i supported portis argument last year as well.. He was right, what kind of coach pulls the best blocking back in the NFL on a passing play when they are blitzing? also i ragged allot on Campbell in the off season, but now i see the error of my ways the person i should have blamed was the coach.. Zorn is playing just like he was at the tail end of last season SCARED… when Gibbs went down and saw Campbell play he said this kid has the best fade pass i have ever seen. But yet Zorn must not have heard this because we haven’t seen a fade pass yet.. to me that just shows he doesn’t trust Campbell at all.
by confederate_gent on Sep 23, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Big name coaches:
The topic of big name coaches keeps coming up. Snyder has the reverse effect of a magnet. He repels them. Snyder is not willing to give anyone else control of the Skins.
Marty had the best shot and was gone. Of course Marty was gone from the Chargers too.
One thing Snyder knows about is making money. This has been demonstrated.
Snyder is not “medium” either.
by Jefferson1935 on Sep 23, 2009 1:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Where's the "Fire Zorn AND Campbell" option?
Zorn’s playcalling is questionable. Campbell looks serviceable but still somewhat scared when playing against the bottom feeder defenses. Zorn and Campbell are depending on each other to keep their jobs… and both will be gone next year unless we go into the playoffs. Oh, Zorn’s record as a QB is 44-62-0 with a 53% completion rate. He threw for 111 TD’s and 141 INT’s. Why wouldn’t Zorn think Campbell’s play is “outstanding”?
by freezec on Sep 23, 2009 2:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
let me rephrase..
I should have said he looks serviceable against bottom feeder defenses and scared in general. When the camera zooms in on Campbells face before a snap, he definitely doesn’t have a look of confidence (deer in headlights). When he takes a snap in shotgun formation, he’ll still drop back 5-7 steps at times. If you watch his feet, the guy looks like he’s walking on hot coals if his first read doesn’t pan out. I’m not a Campbell basher or a homer… I’m a diehard Redskins fan making observations. I’m just afraid Jim Zorn’s supposed “success” as a QB is rubbing off on Jason.
by freezec on Sep 23, 2009 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The run play audible was ugly
But I don’t get the deer in the headlights impression. Eli Manning doesn’t have a fear-striking gaze either, and as much as I hate him, he is starting to come into his own. Damnit I can’t believe I just typed that.
by Boo. on Sep 23, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eli looks stoned...
I was actually going to mention Eli as a comparison, but he’s winning games against tough opponents.. and winning games decisively against weak opponents. He keeps losing playmakers every year but still gets the job done. The G-men dump off folks like Shockey, Plax shoots himself and the Giants still win games. So there’s really no comparison. Also, I didn’t wanted to remind us that the G-men are doing a little better job of reaching the playoffs annually than our beloved Skins. But if JC, Zorn and crew were winning games decisively against weak teams and beating the tough teams too, they could all have snot and slobber running out of their mouths and I wouldn’t say a word!
by freezec on Sep 23, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
I’m just saying don’t read to much into what Jason’s face might look like on your TV. He has had two very good games.
BTW, I’m in a fantasy league with a bunch of Giants fans and my team name is “Eli’s Stupid Face.”
by Boo. on Sep 23, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2 very good games?
You really think JC had a “very good” game against the Giants? We have been without a franchise QB for waaaaay too long.
by freezec on Sep 25, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's very true
but what’s to say that if we get rid of Campbell, we will somehow end up with a franchise QB? Campbell is not a great QB, but he’s the best young QB we’ve had here in 20 years.
by CJHutch on Sep 25, 2009 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By far
Heath Shuler anyone? Or Wurfel (however it is spelled)?
by ZakInOmaha on Sep 25, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's spelled "Awful"
"One-on-one? You can't." -Gilbert Arenas
JC Bandwagon all day!
by kseandoyle on Sep 25, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All this time
I thought it was spelled “crap.”
by bigrm18 on Sep 25, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
May I point out
That Eli has the benefit of a great Oline, while JC does not, and that the Giants front office has replaced their old playmakers with new ones, while the young Skins receivers have yet to show anything? Eli is not all that great, and JC is not too far behind him.
by Grindylow on Sep 26, 2009 7:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I knew I'd get at least one of these comments
I’m not interested in the people who want both of them gone, and I’m really not interested in hearing, as I’ve heard for months now, about how Snyder is likely to get rid of both of them if he doesn’t like what he sees this year. I asked a question, admittedly completely hypothetically, about which he would side with if he absolutely had to side with one and get rid of the other.
Also, I don’t think Campbell has looked scared at all this year (or last), especially against the Rams, the only “bottom feeder defense” he’s played this year.
"One-on-one? You can't." -Gilbert Arenas
JC Bandwagon all day!
by kseandoyle on Sep 23, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never said I wanted both of them gone..
But I think that option would have received the most votes. But to answer your question about who Snyder would side with is a tough one. Snyder has already tried to get rid of JC… and Zorn was hired to develop JC.. or at least to be his mentor. So I think it’s safe to say Snyder would side with Zorn based on recent history. I personally think Snyder is just experimenting until next year. He can pick up a new coach and a new QB who fits the new coaches scheme.
by freezec on Sep 23, 2009 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has anyone
heard Portis’ latest comments? I caught a minute of Lavar and Pukes, and they said CP called out Snyder. If so, that’s perdy interesting, since Danny and Clinton are ‘boys’. I am very curious to see if anything comes of this. (that is, IF they weren’t blowing out of proportion) I don’t think Danny can shun CP like he did Lavar. And while I doubt Snyder would change thing up because of what Portis says, it would have to send his mind spinning.
by CJHutch on Sep 23, 2009 6:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Portis: We're All on the Hot Seat
http://tinyurl.com/n8c3yg
Portis and many on the blog build a good case for whatever you want to hear.
by Jefferson1935 on Sep 23, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blowing it out of proportion
I think everything he said is justified and accurate and what is shows is him taking some leadership. Things are already starting to come apart at the seams. Players are making critical comments about the media, the fans, their own play, and now the entire organization. Ignoring it would have been dishonest and ignorant. If there is any hope for this team its for everyone to start keeping it real.
Steinberg’s blog post puts it in a different light than 106.7 the (so-called) Fan. Their programming consists of prefacing a player’s comments with their own editorial statement, playing them- or worse reading them with different emphases put on key phrases – and then criticizing the current state of the team, commenting that the fans should be upset, then taking fifteen calls from upset fans.
I might get around to a FanPost on this subject cause I think there’s a lot to say. But the drama surrounding this team is starting to get ridiculous. It is what it is, if the team can embrace the adversity and use it to bring it all together, than we will be looking back on these first few weeks (and really the entire offseason) and thinking how crazy people got.
by Boo. on Sep 23, 2009 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm surprised
So many people voted that if he had to, Snyder would get rid of Zorn. While you can make an argument for either side, I figured a lot of people would look at what happened in the offseason and just come to the conclusion that, while he might not have a lot of faith in either man, Snyder seems to want to get rid of Campbell more than Zorn.
"One-on-one? You can't." -Gilbert Arenas
JC Bandwagon all day!
by kseandoyle on Sep 25, 2009 3:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think there's a better chance at a
1) Campbell/Moss rift
or
2) Zorn/Portis rift
by SSBlitz on Sep 28, 2009 10:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
QB Leadership
I’d like to see Jason Campbell take LEADERSHIP in this team. If that means telling Zorn he’d like to run something he knows will work or demanding excellence from his other 10 offensive players on the field, then so be it. Every older Redskin fan that ever watched Joe Theiseman play could vouch that he wasn’t the best arm in the NFL and "chatted it up" quite a bit, yet none the less he was LEADER. John Riggins to this day speaks how when hears Thiesmans voice it still causes him to jump. That’s the kind of cocky attitude a leader possesses. I saw Joe on many occasion during games, yank on an offensive linemans face mask for being offsides etc. …All I want to see in my QB (JC) is a big step up in demanding that his team play hard along with him. Jason has a great arm, height, and mobility – Tools Joe T. never really had but he is not showing that one quality that should be well developed now…come on JC man up and bust some tail out there!
by Fundamental Baseball on Oct 3, 2009 8:20 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

by 
















