"I think he plays well in the gun," Zorn said of Campbell. "He's a tall guy. It's immediate pass protection right at the snap. On the other hand, you can't operate in the 'gun exclusively and run a West Coast offense. Even a modified West Coast offense...not if we want to be deceptive with draws. Not if we want to be deceptive on third downs to run the ball, either."
2 months ago
KevinE
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The irony is...
that while Zorn talks about deceptiveness, the word from many quarters is that his play calling is too predictable – Portis left, Portis right, pass.
Tom Brady lines up in the gun almost every play – shouldn’t we be more concerned about effectiveness and productivity rather than deceptiveness? And I guess if you can’t dominate the line of scrimmage and establish the run it doesn’t matter anyway…
by bonesbiscuit on Sep 18, 2009 10:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Your right on it...
It seems like a lot of good QBs are in the gun most of the time PManning/Brady. Like you said we need to be effective not deceptive. I think maybe the train of thought is if your back in shot gun for 90% of the game you may be looked at as a spread offense, which is very taboo in the NFL. Also would you be limiting Sellers effectiveness by taking him out of the power I?
by pas493 on Sep 18, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We don't want them to know we're running it on 3rd and 8.
That’ll give away our winning secret.
Haha.
by SSBlitz on Sep 18, 2009 10:18 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
That comment is a serious cause for concern to me
First of all, given these two things:
1. JC is clearly comfortable/more successful in the shot gun
2. Over the past couple seasons the shotgun has become more prevalent across the NFL as more and more QBs find success with it, not surprisingly Brady & Manning, ie. the two best QBs of this generation
Zorn is still saying to himself, “I see these two points, but I’m going to stick to my (unproven) SYSTEM, I’m not going to ADAPT.”
Second of all, this is painfully untrue:
“On the other hand, you can’t operate in the ’gun exclusively and run a West Coast offense.”
Why is our HC saying something that ignorant?
by smutsboy1 on Sep 18, 2009 10:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I hope he sticks with calling it...
even tho he said he does not like using it, JC was 15-17 out of the gun and 5-9 with a pick without. JC threw only 100 passes (~20%) from the gun last year, so this is actually change out of Zorn. I’ll be pissed if we revert back to not using it againt the Rams.
by liger99 on Sep 18, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Systems vs Coaches
And this more than anything explains why the Redskins were looking for a new QB this past summer. JC is a good NFL quarter back, and can do things well and will learn to run any system but he is not adapt at running this system.
A good coach can adapt his system to the players, a coach who believes only in the system has to have the players which fit the system, it seems Zorn is sticking with the system and needs players to run that system.
by dr WNC on Sep 18, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But we all know Zorn is gone next year unless he can like, win the Super Bowl or something, so why worry about whether our QB can fit into his system? There’ll be a new one next year, and we’ll be running it behind an old, broken-down, ineffective O-line, so it won’t work no matter who is under center.
by andrewtsks on Sep 18, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ineffective?
Still stuck in 2008, or was it the lines fault at NY, 2009 game 1
How many times did Campbell get sacked?
by dr WNC on Sep 18, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i hate the WCO
I'm to young to Die Danny...don't make me do it tomorrow....
by Rekka on Sep 18, 2009 11:04 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I love b/c in flag football I can’t throw the deep ball any more.
by pas493 on Sep 18, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This isn't good
It seems that Zorn isn’t willing to adapt to his players’ strengths and he runs what he wants to run instead of running what works. And obviously, Campbell in the shotgun is something that works and works very well so I don’t understand why you wouldn’t continue to do what works instead of trying to force something to work; like Portis’ runs to the left. This is where Zorn’s inexperience as a head coach and offensive coordinator starts to show.
by bigrm18 on Sep 18, 2009 11:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Here is a better link for the shotgun discussion..
17 of the 26 passes were from the gun, not bad considering we threw only 100 total last year. Maybe it is a step in the right direction. We will find out this weekend.
by liger99 on Sep 18, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully
Zorn is willing to use Campbell more in the shotgun this year. However, it doesn’t sound like Zorn wants Campbell in the shotgun that often based on the quote.
by bigrm18 on Sep 18, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will start the ‘fire Zorn now’ thread if he refuses to use the shotgun against the Rams. Is it possible to overlook how much better JC is out of the gun???? I think there is a good chance that Zorn tries to not use it agaist the rams being it may not be needed.
by liger99 on Sep 18, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Campbell's effectiveness goes up.
But Portis’ effectiveness goes down. I would say Portis is the best player on our team, so I’m not upset that the offensive scheme is directed more in his favor.
by SSBlitz on Sep 18, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe that's true
But we should also try to make Campbell as comfortable as possible. If Campbell’s effectiveness isn’t up then it’s practically a guaranteed loss for us. Moreover, I think Portis’ effectiveness goes hand in hand with Campbell’s effectiveness. If Campbell isn’t effectively throwing the ball, teams will stack the box with 8 defenders and Portis will have no place to run (like against the Giants). If Portis isn’t running well teams will probably start to play zone and Campbell will have no place to throw to.
However, I do realize that when Portis rushes for over 100 yards it’s almost a guaranteed win for us. But as I said, if Campbell isn’t on the top of his game teams will focus in on Portis and he won’t end up with much yardage. So, to make Campbell AND Portis effective we should put Campbell in the shotgun more often IMHO.
by bigrm18 on Sep 18, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you don't win when you run
you run when you win.
by smutsboy1 on Sep 18, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep. The 100 yard rushing rule is BS. But I think the Skins need to run the ball effectively to win. IMO, playing sick D, running the ball, and playing great specials teams will win us a lot of games this year.
by liger99 on Sep 18, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Essentially
The 100 yard rushing rule is BS. But I think the Skins need to run the ball effectively to win
If a RB goes for 100 yards or more he’s more than likely running the ball effectively don’t you think?
by bigrm18 on Sep 18, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve seen too many 15-20 carries for 50-75 yards efforts prior to the forth quarter. Then they bust off a few big runs being their team is ahead and the D is tired or the D has given up. I think it has a lot to do with the number of carries given to the rbs on the team that is ahead….but that is just IMHO.
by liger99 on Sep 18, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's true
And that’s why I said “more than likely” instead of definitively saying that if a RB goes for over 100 yards he ran the ball effectively. When we run the ball effectively we more than likely win, and Portis isn’t known for breaking big runs in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th quarter so his runs are almost always evenly stretched out. However, Portis did just run 34 yards in the first quarter against the Giants so it’s not like RBs only get big yardage in the 4th quarter.
by bigrm18 on Sep 18, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably, but still
Teams that dominate the rushing stats (specifically rushing attempts) will win more games than teams that dominate the passing stats.
by VA_Skin on Sep 19, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If that's the case
you run when you win.
Why don’t we just throw the ball the first three quarters and let Portis rest until the fourth quarter? Once Campbell has thrown for 350 yards and 4 TDs and has won the game for us we can then bring in Portis. Come to think of it, why does every team in the NFL run in the first three quarters? Don’t they know that you only run once you’ve won the game? I guess the league hasn’t gotten the memo yet.
by bigrm18 on Sep 18, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Teams have just been putting 8 players ‘in the box’ to taking away Portis. they also stuffed Moss at the line…zorn did nothing to counter this. Even the bengals were able to do this to us last year. Three and five step WCO drops were not effective against 8 man fronts that would blitz last year. With Moss checked at the line and pressure coming, JC had to throw short to cooley and el too much. I think mixing in the shotgun more than 20%…maybe in the 30-40%range, would loosen up the D to get them out of the box for Portis. My feeling is that the gun gets us more mid-range passes and buys moss more time to get off the line.
by liger99 on Sep 18, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but Portis
CAN be effective if Zorn shows some imagination. I don’t understand where this notion comes from that you can’t run out of the Shotgun. Buffalo went to 4 Superbowls doing it, and I’m pretty sure Thurman Thomas led the league in rushing some of those years. I’m not saying we should run the ‘K-Gun’, I just think they should utilize the shotgun more if for nothing else than to get JC’s confidence up. Let him start out in the ’Gun, get into a groove, and then start mixing it up.
I’d also like to see us go hurry up some in situations other than 2 minutes left, down 10 points.
by CJHutch on Sep 18, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is promising
but the problem is that Zorn seems very reluctant to admit that the game plan he has envisioned could be improved. It clearly is starting to rub people the wrong way.
I remember last year he got in a big argument with Steve Czaban about whether or not he should be deferring the opening kick-off, the way pretty much every other team started to do. It would be nice to have Zorn say, “Some of the things we planned didn’t work the way we thought they would and we are going to revisit them this week after we look at the film and adjust accordingly.” Instead we get, “The gameplan is fine, we just have to execute better. I don’t regret calling the Randle El Sack for 11 yards loss at all.”
by Boo. on Sep 18, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"I don’t regret calling the Randle El Sack for 11 yards loss at all"
Geez…how can you not regret that? Every WR was covered.
I’m inviting Zorn to my next high-stakes poker game.
by KevinE on Sep 18, 2009 12:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah, that was
just dumb. That is a slow play that develops BEHIND the line of scrimmage. Didn’t he realize that after CP’s big scamper, they’d be geared up to top the run. They didn’t HAVE to sniff out that play, they were already set up to tackle the guy who gets the ball handed to him in the back field. Dumb dumb dumb. That woulda been the perfect chance for Campbell to stretch his arm.
by CJHutch on Sep 18, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What will happen first?
Campbell Benched
or
Jimmy Zorn Fired??
I say the former closely followed by the latter
by Elaw6 on Sep 18, 2009 6:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
or, option 3
the two of them make lemonade out of spoiled milk, we embark on a legendary run to the Superbowl, where Zorn exposes BeliDick for the smoke and mirrors show he is, and Jason LaCanfora is banished to covering ’Where’s the RPG’ in the streets of Somalia for being so damned wrong.
by CJHutch on Sep 19, 2009 2:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
NO SHOTGUN FORMATION = FIRE JIM ZORN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The days of the run opening up the pass are long gone. Now any coach worth his weight can shut down most running games by stacking the box. For example look at how hard S. Jackson has to work because of no passing game and he is a better back than C. Portis !!!! It is now the opposite the pass opens up the run !!!! It is amazing even Clinton Portis made a comment about passing the ball downfield more to get eight men out of the box. When will ZORN learn or will he remain stubborn as a mule !!! The BUCK STOPS AT THE TOP !!! He needs to accept some of the blame for the Giants loss and stop pointing the finger at his players during his interviews !!!! JIM ZORN is a DWEEB!!! IF his play calling does not change IE PASS MORE FROM SHOTGUN he needs to be fired !!!!
by LETJASONPASS on Sep 20, 2009 7:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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