First Cuts: Shaun Suisham vs. Dave Rayner - Why This Battle Should Already Be Over

by Ken Meringolo on Aug 11, 2009 12:48 PM EDT in Redskins Analysis

Note to HH readers: This post has been kicking around my brain for the last week but it is still ludicrously early. Maybe I am just tired of "kicker battles" in training camp. So before you tell me they don't need to cut a kicker until the end of the month...I know. I just hate that a roster spot is being wasted on an extra kicker right now. If you want to save wear and tear on your kicker in the pre-season, go for two on 75% of extra point chances. Better yet, practice going for it on 4th down in field goal range during the pre-season.

On September 1st, roster spots will be at a premium. You could make the argument that they are at a premium right now. With an aging offensive line, questions at wide receiver, and a chance to take a hard look at a few running backs that might or might not have a chance to make it, you'd think that every day you carry an extra kicker has the potential to hurt you somewhere else. And don't give me that sorry excuse that a kicker gets worn down in preseason by kicking too many field goals. There are a million ways to get around that. Hire a kicking coach and have him take 50% of the kicks in practice. I actually love my idea of going for it on 4th down in the pre-season.

You might also argue that by shelving the kicker battle we are somehow hurt by not getting the winner of a compelling, earth-shattering kicking showdown. I would answer that by asking how it would be possible to be worse than last place in field goal percentage. Our kicking competitions the last few years have SUCKED out loud--punter and place kicker.

Let the madness stop. Get rid of a kicker and keep a guy who can help us get ready for the 2009 season. Let's brainstorm all the ways in which we could go without two kickers in the pre-season, without over-working the one kicker on the roster.

Poll

Am I totally off base here? Do you think we should be going through the motions of a kicker battle?

Yes, you have to have a kicker competition in training camp

282 votes

No, if you are last in field goal percentage there is no competition. You deserve to be picked up in Week 8 when someone is desperate

363 votes

645 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

Kicker

What is bound to upset Sugar even more is that all the times I have been to Skins camp, ZERO of the times were they kicking FG’s. They were just watching Hunter do some hand drills and listen to Coach Smith talk on technique.

However, i voted for “yes.” You never know how good a kicker is until he is in a real game where something is on the line (in this case, its his job). On Fan Appr Day, both kickers kicked XPs and 50+ yarders in front of the crowd. Rayner was connecting from 55+ and Suisham, well, he was making some too, but how do you know you picked the right one this early?

Remember when David Akers was cut from the Redskins for missing his first FG? Look how that worked out for the Eagles. I say after pre-season game 2 it should be decided. I couldn’t find the exact dates for the rounds the players are cut.

by Kevin Ewoldt on Aug 11, 2009 2:05 PM EDT reply actions

Kickers are people too, sugar

by Parks Smith on Aug 11, 2009 2:11 PM EDT reply actions

People, yes

Extra roster spots? I am not so sure.

by Ken Meringolo on Aug 11, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions

I can see the postgame press cof now....

WashingtonPost : Is there any word on Laddell
JimZorn : We have to wait on a couple tests in the morning but the doctors are pretty sure he tore his ACL and will be out for the season
WP : Can you explain to me the thought process in going for it on 4th down in a preseason game that was already pretty much decided.
JZ : Well we wanted to have 2 kickers until late in the preseason but we decided it was better to continue the Mike Williams/Dr.Phil/WeightLossChallenge. Once we cut Suisham that left me only with Rayner and we didnt want him to tire that leg out. After all we are paying him the big bucks so we figured what the hell, lets just throw out 11 of our key reserves back on the field and roll the dice with their careers.

by dt3 on Aug 11, 2009 2:23 PM EDT reply actions

Let Mike Williams kick the field goals then!

by Ken Meringolo on Aug 11, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions

best idea ive seen on here in awhile

by dt3 on Aug 11, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions

yeah right… and then maybe you can have a coach take some snaps at QB in the second half. Ridiculous.

by dt3 on Aug 11, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions

Awww...come on...

You have been spoiled by David Akers. And when is that last time he defended his position in a kicker competition? An extra kicker in Eagles camp is a luxury you can afford. Akers has earned the right to have a caddy in camp.

by Ken Meringolo on Aug 11, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions

was actually referring to...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/11/some-cry-foul-over-eagles-81-man-roster/

you guys just need to become more creative

by dt3 on Aug 11, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm not too worried about Matt Nagy

by Parks Smith on Aug 11, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions

not worried either, but I’d like to know if they have other ‘interns’ out there. If they were smart, they let the commish office know prior to the signing. otherwise, they are open to an investigation of their staff.

by liger99 on Aug 11, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions

no one is… never said you should be

by dt3 on Aug 11, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions

hehehe

Also, if we are going for it on 4th down, it is with the reserves. Chase Daniels handing it off to Dorsey or Alridge.

by Ken Meringolo on Aug 11, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions

a few comments

1. Read “A Few Seconds Of Panic” by Stefan Fatsis. Great read while training camp is going on. (And I know you’ve got the time, Sugar!)
2. Going for it on 4th and/or trying for 2 after TDs would give other teams a chance to get the plays we have in those situations on tape (esp the going for 2, not the going for it on 4th so much).
3. If you think about how important our kicking will likely be to the overall W-L record, keeping a second kicker around for a couple weeks as opposed to a back-up, back-up RB or OL (both of whom could likely be had mid-season if need be) hardly seems like much of a sacrifice.

by artmonk4ever on Aug 11, 2009 3:29 PM EDT reply actions

You don't need to open up your playbook.

If you need short yardage, put it on your offensive line and get it done.

The pre-season should be about finding out about how certain players (backups/reserves competing for jobs) react in certain situations.

IF we only had one kicker in camp, THEN it would make sense to do some experimenting in the pre-season. Spurrier isn’t the coach anymore—winning pre-season games just doesn’t matter.

by Ken Meringolo on Aug 11, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Reading "Freakonomics" right now

by Stephen Dubner and Steven Levitt.

Entertaining read.

by Ken Meringolo on Aug 11, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions

I'd rather see the kicking situation play out

We averaged 16.5 points a game last year and gave up 18.5, while missing 10 FGs. I’d like to see some preseason games before making a decision. I’d like to know if shawn is tainted from last year or if Rayner can put kickoffs to the goal line in a game situation. Making the playoffs could come down to one or two critical FGs.

by liger99 on Aug 11, 2009 3:44 PM EDT reply actions

And it will

the 1 or 2 critical FGs could lead to 2 or 3 wins and the playoffs…

by dr WNC on Aug 11, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Suisham

Suisham is a gentleman and a class act, something rare in the NFL. You didn’t see him bragging when he was doing well, nor complaining when things were not. In addition, he is a heck of a kicker when he has a decent holder. Remember when he made 82% of his attempts in 2006 and 83 % in 2007 – before last year’s misadventures with the constant change of holders? This guy earned 3 game balls with his field goals when the rest of the team was having difficulty getting it done. He has earned the chance to prove his value now that they have a qualified holder. Give the guy his well-deserved opportunity.

by midstateskinsfan on Aug 13, 2009 10:02 PM EDT reply actions

yep

I talked to Suisham in camp about Hunter….and he said it’s a WORLD of difference with Hunter holding the ball. As much as I laughed at it last year, it makes sense now. The kicker is appraoching the ball while the holder is catching and putting the ball down (and spinning laces out)…when the holder is not fluid, it’s going to F up the kick.

by Kevin Ewoldt on Aug 14, 2009 2:27 AM EDT up reply actions