From Classy To Ashy - The Sky's the Limit For This Team
by Ken Meringolo on Jul 8, 2009 9:51 AM EDT
in Analysis
72 comments
It seems like just yesterday that Mark Brunell was telling a reporter (in the preseason) that we were a Super Bowl contender and that anything short of that would be a disappointment. That didn't work out so well for us. To be sure, the second tenure of Joe Gibbs brought back a stability to the franchise that had been lacking under Daniel Snyder. But the continued mediocrity has led to continued nay-saying around the league. Here are the league rankings as posted by some of the major national sites (if I have missed a more recent ranking by one of these places, help me out with an update in the comments section):
ESPN: #19 - "How much impact will Albert Haynesworth have and how will Jason Campbell respond to an awkward off-season?"
CBS Sports: #23 - "They're the fourth team in a four-team division. That will make it tough to win eight games."
CNNSI (Peter King): #23 - "Prediction: I'll look foolish when Washington starts 4-2 or 5-1. These things happen with St. Louis, Detroit, Tampa Bay and Kansas City on the schedule before Halloween, three of them at home. But then, when it finishes against the Giants, Cowboys and Chargers, I might be closer to right -- and Jason Campbell might be closer to being somewhere else in 2010."
Scout.com: #20 - "The key for this offense is for Clinton Portis to stay healthy and for another receiver other than Santana Moss to become a factor in the passing game. If Devin Thomas becomes a big factor, this team could surprise in 2009. Defensively, they must find pass rush help."
Not exactly a ringing endorsement of the progress we in D.C. seem to be buying so hard into. But that is okay. In recent years, the cache Joe Gibbs brought to the league afforded the national media the leeway to inflate the hype we created locally. Now we are back to being an afterthought in the NFC and in our own division. Let's not sugarcoat facts either--the Redskins have been largely irrelevant in the NFL for some time. This would not be the first season following a disappointing year with letdowns at numerous positions and more questions than answers leading into camp. But now we seem to be getting the Detroit Lions or Cleveland Browns treatment on the 'NFL Live' type shows. The consistent mediocrity of the Redskins polarized those in the national media for years. Is Norv good enough to get this team deep in the playoffs? Is this year's batch of off-season signings going to finally solidify the roster? Are they serious about Danny Wuerffel? Does Vinny Cerrato have naked pictures of Dan Snyder? Has Spurrier ever heard of pass protection? Can Zorn survive in this organization?
I have yet to see any national analyst pick the burgundy and gold to finish higher than any of these guys. It is a different day in Redskins Nation. And I like it. Plenty of league experts have never gotten on board with Snyder and his style of running this team. And those nay-sayers seemed to fuel the steady diet of some of their colleagues who could then find a counterpoint/reason that the Redskins would get it done and make their move that year. But by and large it is apathy we see now. Despite the big splash we made in free agency (again), we still seem to find ourselves in a place where more people just don't seem to care enough to drum up a huge argument for or against (except when they are forcing it.) Outside the beltway, that is.
This is where Joe Gibbs historically succeeded. He relished the underdog role. He loved to be able to make it plain to his players that they were not expected to win, ever. His job was made difficult when the cacophony of high expectations drowned out reality--even more so when that din emanated from within his own roster.
The question will be, can Zorn find a motivational tool here? Because it is there. And a good coach never lets a useful instrument like that go to waste. Once again, we can relish our underdog status. We may have had no business thinking we were that great over the last, say, decade or so, but we weren't alone in that rush to ridiculous pre-judgement. Today, any unrealistic expectations are our own and only our own. This team should welcome this new hype-less era, and prove it on the field.
As the late great poet Chris Wallace said, "Show me, homey."
1 recs |
72 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
Well written.
I’ve been embracing that analysts are over looking us again. But I still have very high expectations for the upcoming season.
by SSBlitz on Jul 8, 2009 10:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Most definitely
There is nothing to suggest we can’t be the surprise team this year. I also think there is plenty to suggest that one of the so-called “better” teams in the NFC East will fall short of expectations (Philly, looking in your direction)
by Ken Meringolo on Jul 8, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Especially Philly.
But especially Dallas.
by SSBlitz on Jul 8, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree...
I think that the team is UNDERrated as a whole!! I think they will make a great sophmore leap this year!!
JJ Fe
by Rydaddy617 on Jul 9, 2009 8:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the ESPN
comment is the one I find particularly amusing. I’ve seen more a few power ranking articles that delve into why each team will land where predicted. Each one of them had Tennessee dropping significantly. Why? Because of the loss of Haynesworth. So naturally I figured they would give us a boost for his gain. And, naturally, I was wrong. The national media refuses to give the Redskins any credit, no matter what changes we make. We bring in Gibbs and the gray beards? They say our coaching staff is old and out of touch. We bring in Zorn and the neophytes? Now we’re too young and in over our heads. We stack our team with proven veterans and future HOF’ers? We’re trying to buy a ring? We aquire proven in-their-prime talent? We’re not building our own team. It never ends. Now, obviously most of these arguments proved true, but these talking heads also proved hypocritical because they only said it AFTER we failed. And now the Haynesworth signing is added to the list. THE REDSKINS overpaid for him, a D-tackle can’t turn a team around, blah-blah-blah. Nevermind the fact that had Big Al not signed with us, he would’ve gotten the same money from 2 or 3 other teams, AND these same pundits all said Haynesworth was the top FA out there.
I do believe all this Redskins dirtkicking started with Snyder’s arrival on the scene. I think it began with the Turner firing. All these idiots were quick to say how Snyder fired Nerv_less_ prematurely. Nevermind the fact that the guy lasted 7 years in a job with no discernible success to speak of. Did these propoganda pirates consider the fact that most head coaches don’t make it 3 years without showing improvement? No. Did they take into account that the only reason Turner made it as long as he did was because he was the coach of an organization in owner-limbo? Nope. They just took the easy road and spit fire at the guy that was easy to hate.
Now, has lil’ Danny shown any semblance of being half the franchise patriarch the Squire was? No way. He has muddled in mediocrity. So does he deserve a lot of the spit hocked towards him? Probably. BUT, if you’re going to be fair and unbiased, which is what the media is SUPPOSEDLY about, then you have to direct that same criticism to the other teams wading in underachieving waters. Say, for examle, oh I don’t know – the DALLAS COWBOYS. Their plastic man owner valued chose his over a proven, winning formula and oustered Jimmy Johnson to begin the fall of the Mighty 90’s Cowboys. And now that it has been over a decade since their last playoff win, and they, like the Skins, have constantly blundered their way through free agency, does the media hold Jerry Jones’ feet to the fire? Nope. They put them on Hard Knock, anoint them preseason champs year in and out, group them with the ELITE, and do articles on them every other day like
http://profootball.scout.com/2/877686.html
Unbaised coverage? Yeah right. Maybe the reason lil’ Danny controls his message is because that’s the only way for a positive one to get out on this team.
by CJHutch on Jul 8, 2009 10:40 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Very good review CJ
Sugar, The Redskins are not treated as an elite team because they are not, and have not been the past 10 years.
Danny-boy failed as an owner during his first 6 to 8 years and imo is just now coming into his own and building a team which can become an elite team during the second decade of 2K
by dr WNC on Jul 8, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wholeheartedly agree
with this
The Redskins are not treated as an elite team because they are not
But there’s no doubt that there has been a piling on of the team that other franchises aren’t subjected to. I don’t know how many times I heard the Cowboys mentioned as an “Elite Team” during draft weekend. I got into a big argument over it with a Cowboy friend of mine. (Sorry. He’s a good guy otherwise) I just think that moniker is thrown around a little too loosely. I look at Elite teams as those who have been in DIRECT competition for the Super Bowl recently. And I DEFINITELY don’t look at a team whose last playoff win was when gas prices topped out at around $1.50 as ELITE.
by CJHutch on Jul 8, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point exactly
We gotta prove it on the field now.
by Ken Meringolo on Jul 8, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
good write up
however
Plenty of league experts have never gotten on board with Snyder and his style of running this team.
This is b/c there isn’t much to get on board with. A playoff win every couple years, combined with paying more money per win than almost any team in the league, isn’t much to speak of.
I almost think apathy is progress at this point. We’re not being over-hyped, and we haven’t done much to deserve high expectations. It is simply time for Snyder, Cerrato, Zorn and JC to put up or shut up.
Their rep is up to them.
by smutsboy1 on Jul 8, 2009 11:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
no
argument here. I definitely feel like Snyder has made wrong turn after wrong turn. Hopefully he can find his way out of the maze. The problem is, they don’t get credit for getting ANYTHING right. No, all that said, my favorite part of the post was
This is where Joe Gibbs historically succeeded. He relished the underdog role.
I get annoyed that we get recognition only when it’s bad. But as far as the so called “EXPERTS” power polls? I say let ’em put us at the bottom of the barrel every year. The Redskins have historically relished the underdog role. And I love when the talking heads have to eat crow. Even if the weasel out of it.
by CJHutch on Jul 8, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
you didn't know i'm the strong, silent type?
I’m just tired of fans bashing Snyder and JC. They are YOUR owner and QB the least you can do is support them and stop bitching.
I think Snyder has grown up a lot and is actually making educated football decisions now. The only thing you can blast this season is maybe he paid too much for big Al (the Bucs were going to pay more) and that we didn’t draft any OL (but who to say this new, young line can’t have a productive year and grow into an elite line together)
smut, i’m calling you out, almost everyone of your posts are extremely pessimistic or filled with discontent. thats just not me and just bothers me b/c i think you should always support and rep your squad no matter what, just me though.
Danny is obviously very passionate about his team and he means well and learned more from gibbs then any of us will ever know, everyone is stuck in thinking of snyder as circa 2000 rather than 2009…
Furthermore, I like Colt Brennan, he is cool. But he is going to blow, i don’t see how anyone can make a valid arguement of starting him over JC. I hope I’m wrong and Colt becomes a great NFL quarterback, but I don’t think i’m going to be wrong about this one. There is a reason he was passed up 185 times in the draft by 31 other franchises.
Kevin, got the t-shirt, thanks bro!
by pas493 on Jul 8, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Loving the Redskins is precisely why I’m so hard on Snyder. I’m a fan of the franchise, not of any one person. So if someone isn’t doing their job or is hurting the team, they should be called out for it. In fact, loyalty to the team should dictate such.
Snyder just happens to be a common topic with this team, so I come off negatively b/c I have a very low opinion of him. If Greg Blache and Rock Cartwright were common topics I’d be the most positive commenter on this site.
As for giving Snyder the benefit of the doubt, that’s up to you. The way I see it we’re 1 year removed from giving away a 2nd rounder for Jason Taylor, and 3 months removed from trying to trade not one but TWO number one picks for Jay Cutler, aka The Next Big Name.
Obviously Snyder has made improvements. I mean, we’re no longer signing Mark Carrier and Deion Sanders. But saying he’s definitely ‘turned the corner’? No. Not until we build through the draft and become a regular lock to make the playoffs.
by smutsboy1 on Jul 8, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem I have with the “Blame Snyder” approach to Redskins discussions is that too many fans I talk to only have negative feelings about the front office to contribute, rather than thoughtful breakdowns of the players and the team as a whole. I’m of the persuasion that Gibbs Part II helped to steer Snyder back in the direction of patience, and that the Cutler and Sanchez things were blown out of proportion by the local and national media that can’t see past the “Irresponsible Owner” story line either.
This team has some definite weak spots and question marks, but it also has a ton of talent and I think we will surprise a lot of people this season. I voted for us being overlooked b/c said people are all over the Eagles nuts this year. And I’m fine with that. Eagles offense will (maybe, we’ll see) do well outside the division, but its a different brand of football in the NFC East and I don’t think they are built for it. We are ranked ahead of the Cowbitches in a few instance (as we should be) but I would rather start off under the radar instead of being annointed. Plus we shouldn’t expect to be ranked ahead of the Eagles or Giants after the way the season ended anyway. It will be close this year, like it is every year but I’d say anything less than 10-6 would be very disappointing to me.
by Boo. on Jul 8, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem I have with the "Blame Snyder" approach to Redskins discussions is that too many fans I talk to only have negative feelings about the front office to contribute, rather than thoughtful breakdowns of the players and the team as a whole.
Like I said, I think Snyder has done a bad job to date, so my thoughts on him are critical. If you want to talk about our defense, or Portis, or Cooley, I’m as positive as can be.
the Cutler and Sanchez things were blown out of proportion by the local and national media that can’t see past the "Irresponsible Owner" story line either
I’m not sure how this absolves Snyderrato from blame for yet again trying to trade away draft picks for a star player or a big name.
by smutsboy1 on Jul 8, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are the sources that said we were trying to trade draft picks?
The Florios and La Canforas of the online football world were the ones word vomiting that the Skins were imminently prepared to throw away multiple high draft picks. They have shown time and time again how worthless their opinions and projections are. I honestly believe that there was no earnest attempt to get “the big name” and get rid of Campbell, and that it was actually a good move to let the media run away with the story. Snyder and Vinnie know that based on their past history, any time the Redskins are linked to a player it will inflate the value of that player. If the Jets don’t jump the Skins for Sanchez, what are the chances we get Orakpo? I say the Front Office’s reputation is an asset at this point, but only if their real plan is to continue to patiently develop the QB and Coach and save the splashy signings for the skill positions.
by Boo. on Jul 9, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Snyder and Vinnie know that based on their past history, any time the Redskins are linked to a player it will inflate the value of that player
And yet 11 months ago they dramatically overpaid (both money & draft picks) for a 35 y.o. defensive end who our def. coordinator didn’t particularly want.
Re: Cutler…
If you don’t believe the plethora of media reports that came from far more sources than Florio/JLC then we’ll just have to agree to disagree b/c we’re working with different starting points.
but only if their real plan is to continue to patiently develop the QB and Coach
time will tell. we should certainly revisit this topic during the bye week and next off-season.
by smutsboy1 on Jul 9, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We will see
I will definitely eat my words if the evidence proves otherwise. For the time being I will continue to be optimistic that their perspective has improved, because what is the point lamenting it? I know a lot of fans have gotten really tired of the poor management of the team, and maybe its just because I only started following closely right before Gibbs returned, but I haven’t had my spirit crushed yet.
Jason Taylor was a terrible move in hindsight, but we needed a DE badly, there wasn’t a buyers market at that point in the offseason, and we couldn’t have guessed that Taylor would have been hurt all year. He shouldn’t have been played out of position and he shouldn’t have been such a bitch about living in DC (which affected his play also), but thats in the past now.
by Boo. on Jul 9, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hindsight is 20/20
I agree w/ you boo, when jason taylor came to the skins there wasn’t a person from hogs haven who wasn’t pumped to have him on the squad.
I can go head to head with smut on personel moves over the past two or three years and show you that the good moves outweigh the bad.
London Fletcher
Bringing Smoot Back
DHall
Orakpo
Landry
Horton
McIntosh
Haynesworth
Did we get Cutler or Sanchez? NO! So what are you bitching about? They did what you wanted them to do, keep their draft picks.
by pas493 on Jul 9, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree w/ you boo, when jason taylor came to the skins there wasn’t a person from hogs haven who wasn’t pumped to have him on the squad.
Good for you guys. Me and most of the guys I watch every Sunday with were pissed that we traded an extremely valuable draft pick for a 35 year old of any kind, at any position.
I can go head to head with smut on personel moves over the past two or three years and show you that the good moves outweigh the bad.
That doesn’t mean the team is well run. It just means we screw up less than we succeed, which I sincerely hope is the case.
As I said, we’re no longer signing Mark Carrier and Deion Sanders. We’re also nowhere near the successful plans of perennial playoff teams.
Did we get Cutler or Sanchez? NO! So what are you bitching about? They did what you wanted them to do, keep their draft picks.
Please, as if the situation was that simple. According to a lot of reports Snyderrato wanted to trade picks. If you can’t see how that might concern some people, I don’t know what to tell you.
by smutsboy1 on Jul 9, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its weird when jason taylor came to the skins, he was 33 not 35, and coming off of 4 straight pro bowl seasons.
Can you let the Carrier and Sanders thing go, you’ve brought that up a couple of times, that was almost 10 years ago now.
You guys sound like a fun/bitchy bunch to hang out with on sundays
by pas493 on Jul 9, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its weird when jason taylor came to the skins, he was 33 not 35, and coming off of 4 straight pro bowl seasons.
Trading a 2nd rounder for a 33 year old was not what the team needed last year. It was a waste of valuable resources. I’m sorry you thought it would work out.
Can you let the Carrier and Sanders thing go, you’ve brought that up a couple of times, that was almost 10 years ago now.
And yet clearly you still don’t understand the point I’m making: I bring it up as an example of the progress Snyder has indeed made.
You guys sound like a fun/bitchy bunch to hang out with on sundays
Name calling, always the sign of a strong argument.
by smutsboy1 on Jul 9, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No name calling, its just a fact that you bitch a lot and you stated that you sat around a bitched about with your boys last year.
Who cares, I have nothing against you, but coming on here and pointing fingers at Snyder on every topic or never saying anything positive is just kind of taxing after a while.
by pas493 on Jul 9, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
its just a fact that you bitch a lot
one man’s bitching is another man’s criticism of an owner with a bad track record. it’s a matter of perspective I guess.
and you stated that you sat around a bitched about with your boys last year..
ha. never said that.
but coming on here and pointing fingers at Snyder on every topic or never saying anything positive is just kind of taxing after a while.
also extremely taxing are Skins fans who defend Snyder’s every move simply out of uncritical loyalty. guess that’s why there are internet message boards to debate these things.
by smutsboy1 on Jul 9, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don’t defend snyders every move
Spurrier- WORST thing ever
Carrier- Stupid
Deion- Awful
Armstead- Blah
Trotter- Bust
I can go on and on, I just think that Danny boy has turned the corner or is just about to. And I don’t understand how he is paying more per wins than anyone else, when the skins generate more revenue than any other franchise
by pas493 on Jul 9, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I don’t understand how he is paying more per wins than anyone else, when the skins generate more revenue than any other franchise
kind of like the difference between net and gross.
also the difference between Snyder’s corporate revenue vs the actual W/L column.
I’m glad my team makes money, but W/L is far more important and not at all synonymous.
(although obviously good revenue is positive)
by smutsboy1 on Jul 9, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We’re also nowhere near the successful plans of perennial playoff teams.
I agree with that. I don’t know what your opinion on the coach and QB are Smuts, but it often seems like the same people who bash the front office are also the first to call for Campbell to be benched and Zorn to be fired. And thats not the recipe of a perennial playoff team either.
If you hate the owner, hate the coach, and hate the QB, you can’t call yourself a fan of the franchise with a straight face. Not saying or assuming that thats your position, Smuts, cause you seem to have a pretty good grasp of reality. In general tho, a lot of DC sports fans don’t, and its frustrating.
by Boo. on Jul 9, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
being a fan of a franchise is watching the games, obsessing over the off-season, and being superstitions and telling yourself that if you chug this beer then Suisham will hit the game-winning FG.
being a fan doesn’t mean liking the owner, coach and QB regardless of whether they’re actually doing a good job. I wouldn’t take away from a Lions fan who hated Millen, the Fords and Joey Harrington, would you?*
As for my personal thoughts on JC, I think he’s got the potential to be a Very Good NFL QB. He’ll never make the HOF or make a bad offense good by himself, but he can certainly be a winner in the NFL, and not in just the Trent Dilfer sense. Not sure he can do that in the WCO but that’s a different can of worms…
I don’t have strong feelings on Zorn. There isn’t much of a body of work to evaluate, and last year was so bipolar that I’ll just wait and see what happens.
*obviously that’s an extreme example well beyond Snyder/Zorn, but my point stands
by smutsboy1 on Jul 9, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only looking for constructive criticism...
I’m not arguing for blind love and boundless trust, I just don’t see the point in constantly criticizing the cornerstones of the team.
At a certain point you just have to accept the reality that Snyder is who he is, and no amount of complaining about him will get him to sell the team (hire a new—qualified—GM? maybe a different story).
And I doubt the front office (in the past) has taken their cues solely from the fanbase when deciding to fire a coach after one season or mortgage the future of the team for a pretty face, but it was still unfortunate to see other redskins fans turn on Zorn and Campbell so hard at the first sign of adversity.
by Boo. on Jul 9, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I just don’t see the point in constantly criticizing the cornerstones of the team.
I don’t see the point in not criticizing someone you think is doing a bad job.
If the QB of your team sucked every game would you stop criticizing him at some point simply b/c ’he’s the cornerstone of the team’? No. So why is it different for the owner, or anyone else?
At a certain point you just have to accept the reality that Snyder is who he is, and no amount of complaining about him will get him to sell the team (hire a new—qualified—GM? maybe a different story).
Trust me, I know he’s never selling the team and I know he doesn’t give two sh-ts what I think. But that’s not why we have beliefs and opinions is it?
Re: Zorn & Campbell
I think their situations are different and I take different issues with fans that have turned on them. Campbell has a much better pedigree as an NFL QB than Zorn does as a HC, IMO.
by smutsboy1 on Jul 9, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
its not that, you have a right to critque and have an opinion on snyder, but if you are going to constantly bitch about him and whine, and you recognize the fact he is here probably for the next 40 years then why even root for the skins. or are you just all set on being miserable for the rest of your life. there are 31 other teams.
And go ahead and use the quote function, you are really good at that.
by pas493 on Jul 9, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When a blog post’s topic deals with Snyder, such as this one originally did, I’m going to give my opinion on the topic.
For example, ‘why has no one gotten on board with Snyder’? Because he hasn’t achieved much. What’s the alternative? To think the mainstream media hates the Redskins and just doesn’t recognize Snyder’s success? Please. Snyder hasn’t achieved anything. Hence, no respect from the MSM until he does.
or are you just all set on being miserable for the rest of your life. there are 31 other teams.
you question my loyalty and then tell me to abandon my team b/c I hate my owner?
And go ahead and use the quote function, you are really good at that.
snarking at me, and not my ideas/comments. nice.
by smutsboy1 on Jul 10, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is a good article, Sugs
but the best part is the title.
by artmonk4ever on Jul 8, 2009 12:38 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
This team will only go as far as Jason Campbell can take them
and based on years past, he’ll look like a Pro Bowler before Halloween and when the weather gets cold, he’ll look like Heath Shuler…as a politician.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 8, 2009 12:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
can we
PLEASE get off Campbell’s back for a little while? I hate saying this because I’m not certain he’s the answer for us either. But at this point there’s no reason to dwell on it. He will be our day one starter, and I’m sorry all you Brennanites, but if Campbell doesn’t finish the season we’re not doing anything this year. That’s the truth. Brennan will be good one day ( I believe), but that day ain’t in 2009.
This team will only go as far as Jason Campbell can take them
I actually think they will go as far as the offensive line takes them. Football is not a one-man show. Definitely not Redskins football. Look, I LOVE Doug Williams, but (WARNING——HERESY ALERT!!!! ) him and Mark Rypien were not GREAT quarterback’s. But they had GREAT O-lines, not to mention great receiving corps.
If the O-line comes together, and the young receivers wake the $#$ up, then we will have a good year. And you know who will get the credit? Campbell, even though the “supporting cast” should. Same lines, who gets the blame if the line sucks and the receivers are garbage? Campbell.
by CJHutch on Jul 8, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
mentioning Campbell without talking about our old, injured, underperforming OL or terrible supporting WRs is a joke.
by smutsboy1 on Jul 8, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you were a fan of the team
you would support the OL and the WRs and stop trying to blame them.
See what I did there?
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 8, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thomas and kelly were hurt for the most part last year, no one is blaming them just saying they need to step up along with the o-line for campbell to become effecient, on second glance smut was saying that, but i think devin thomas and fred davis will definately fill in the holes this year, also with a rejuvinated line.
by pas493 on Jul 8, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe
he turned the argument around, being facetious.
But in doing so, I could say you helped the other side as well. Because blaming the WR’s and O-line sounds silly to many people. The easy thing to do is blame either the QB or the coach.
Look, I’m not saying don’t blame Campbell. You’re right, as a fan AND and individual you can blame whomever you want, and no one should begrudge you.
My point was that we could go far whether he performs at a pro bowl level or at a journeymen level. It’s happened. Furthermore, pile on Campbell all you want, but make sure you take into account all the factors. Has he had the protection afforded most winning quarterbacks? Has he had an NFL-caliber receiving corps like most successful QB’s? Has he had the continued support and continuity of a successful franchise? And lastly, is it solely HIS fault that this franchise has not been succesful? If you answer no to ANY of these questions, than you need more than one scapegoat.
by CJHutch on Jul 8, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Campbell had less and less time to throw the ball last year
But he still has serious problems making decisions quickly and getting the ball out. For the West Coast offense, it’s all about pre-snap reads and quick releases. He struggled with that as the season went on.
In no way does everything fall on him, I never said it did. But he is the barometer for this team. When he plays well, the team can win games but he, unlike any other player on the roster can make or break a game.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 9, 2009 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK
I’ll agree with that. He may not fit into this offense. I believe he has starter skills. But not everyone fits into every system.
However, think about your opening line. Sure, Campbell could use improvent in decision making. But he was playing at or neqr a Pro bowl level at the beginning of last year. He took a downturn when the line started getting hurt. Like I said, no QB is going to look good laying on their back.
by CJHutch on Jul 9, 2009 3:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t know where the ‘being a fan of the team’ thing came from.
Anyway, for the record (as I’ve stated many times) JC shares a lot of blame for the offense last year, but I would say the WRs and OL played worse as a unit (or had less talent) than JC did at QB.
So “This team will only go as far as Jason Campbell can take them” isn’t the whole story, as Hardcore Legend eventually agreed.
by smutsboy1 on Jul 9, 2009 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Elite QBs
find ways to will their teams to victory. From Week 1, Big Ben’s OL was a joke last season. His #1 WR (Ward) and #1 RB (Parker) battled injuries the whole year. Still, he found ways to produce enough points to win games. I want to see JC put the team on his back and become our field general.
RAK EM UP!
by VA_Skin on Jul 9, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, JC certainly isn’t elite. I don’t know who would argue that.
Pittsburgh’s OL is/was better than ours, and their WR corps is muuuuuuch better.
And it’s easier to ‘will’ your team to victory when your defense creates tons of turnovers, defensive TDs and great field position.
by smutsboy1 on Jul 9, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Turnovers are the key
That should hopefully improve this year.
Pitt’s OL was a huge concern for them at the beggining of the year, and when we played them I remember us getting a lot of pressure on Roethlisberger— more than we got on other teams. It also seemed that their OL tightened up as the year went on (being younger), while ours disintegrated.
by Boo. on Jul 9, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pittsburgh’s OL is/was NOT better than ours. They gave up more sacks (49 to our 38), were ranked lower in rush yards/game (23rd to our 8th), had less total yards per game, and contributed to Roethlisberger having 6 more fumbles lost and twice as many INTs.
IMO, a better QB could have lead us into the playoffs. That doesn’t mean JC won’t be better this year. I think he will. But if he wants to remain with the B&G, he needs to improve his red zone production.
Ben Roethlisberger 2008
- 80.1 QB Rating
- 3301 yards
- 19 TDs*
- 15 INTs
Jason Campbell 2008
- 84.3 QB rating
- 3245 yards
- 13 TDs*
- 6 INTs
RAK EM UP!
by VA_Skin on Jul 9, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
those stats are
a bit skewed. Pittsburgh’s line WAS better than ours in the 2nd half of the season, when our guys got old and started breaking down.
Plus, it’s tough to make an accurate comparison between any two teams using stats, but especially hard when the teams are in difference conferences playing different teams.
And last, the reason I don’t like using stats for comparison is that there are things the numbers don’t show. Big Ben has never been a numbers guy. He just wins. Brady used to be the same way. If JC only throws for 150 yards/ a game but his team wins every 3 out of 4, I’m as happy as a dog with two tails.
by CJHutch on Jul 9, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Big Ben has never been a numbers guy. He just wins.
And that’s what JC needs to learn how to do. After this season, all of the endless excuses about OL, WRs, new offenses, new coaches, play calling, etc. won’t matter. It’s time to put up or shut up.
RAK EM UP!
by VA_Skin on Jul 9, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree 100%
I’m mostly tired of the new offenses excuse. Drew Brees learned a new offense and went to the Pro Bowl by putting up league best #‘s. Joe Flacco went from the widely feared Blue Hen attack to leading an NFL team to the playoffs. Sometimes I wonder if Campbell doesn’t hear all the excuses people are making for him and believe them himself. If he wants to be an NFL QB, he need sto show it this year.
All that said, I still don’t feel like QB was out biggest problem last year. Nor will it be this year.
by CJHutch on Jul 10, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate the Flacco comparison.
Put JC on the Ravens and he does better than Flacco, no question in my mind.
Same for Matt Ryan.
by smutsboy1 on Jul 10, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to think so
they definitely had a better line. And they didn’t even wait until their starters turned to dust before rebuilding. They did it on the fly. Imagine that – forward thinking FO management. Who knew it existed.
Anyway, Flacco, kind of like Big Ben, may not be the most gifted guy. But he seems to have that gumption out there. I’m not sure Campbell has that. Not all good QB’s have it, and not all guys that have it are good QB’s. They’re just confident. What makes a guy great is having “IT”, and having the talent. I’m pretty sure Colt has it, just remains to be seen if he has the tools to use it.
by CJHutch on Jul 10, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't
think ANYONE thinks JC is “Elite”. But, as I said before, we don’t need elite at QB. It would be nice, yes. But it’s not realistic.
by CJHutch on Jul 9, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
right, we just need someone to manage the game
by pas493 on Jul 9, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes and yes but
I’d trade both of those for wins.
by CJHutch on Jul 9, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mark Brunell
could have played better ..
QB play has had more to do with the level of success since Mark Rypien left town …he should have been a bridge to the next good QB …and not released him because Norv decided Heath Shuler …was the next Joe Montana
Snyder haters always measure out their own limitations..I go into every season expecting progress…from every team we put on the field…so does Danno
by terpsez11 on Jul 8, 2009 6:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Redskins finished last year ranked at #19 (based on record) with and 8-8 record. They also finished with a strong downward trend going 2-6. They did add Haynesworth and helped the OL, but they will need prove that they have turned the 2-6 team around on the field….this is basically what I see in these rankings. 10 teams finished last year with 10 or more wins and 13 teams finished with 7-9 wins. Assuming the same type of NFL win distribution this year, I’m guessing the #19 to #23 ranking equates to 7-8 wins for the Redskins. That seems a little low to me, but these types of rankings always seem to be geared towards driving site traffic or generate discussion.
by liger99 on Jul 8, 2009 6:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
One Anecdote
Just in my own experience, something my room-mate in college shared with me (a fellow Skins fan), is that if you have 0 expectations for the Skins team of any given year, they will do well and likely make a push into the playoffs – the moment you believe, the wheels fall apart faster than the Nationals after Spring Training.
by Grand Tanyon Sturtze on Jul 8, 2009 8:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That is
No Way to go through life!!! Especially football life… with that view- if they do ever make a run for the SB, your convenant wouldn’t allow you to get pumped up about it… and that’s sad really!!
you need to watch Mr Magorium’s Wonder Emporium (sp?)… it will give you some good lessons in BELIEVING!!! LOL ;)
JJ Fe
by Rydaddy617 on Jul 9, 2009 8:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sugar
Do you know how I know your post is gay? Because it has 5 tweets.
Seriously though, I love that we are constantly underestimated. So were the Arizona Cardinals last year.
RAK EM UP!
by VA_Skin on Jul 8, 2009 10:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You know the beauty of predictions...
Statistically they are usually almost ALWAYS wrong!!! Gotta love football!!
JJ Fe
by Rydaddy617 on Jul 9, 2009 7:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Peter King...
is an absolute joke. Rarely has a prediction of his come to pass and even if it does, his rationale for making the choice is porous at best. His 10 page articles are 90% fluff about his daughter’s softball careers, terrible TV show and music reviews that almost make his sports writing look good and stories about Starbucks and airplanes. He’d probably have his pants off faster than Bruno if the Manning brothers walked in the room.
The lesson I took from his career is that I need to get rid of my gag reflex if I want a career as a “serious” sports journalist.
"You will remember the night you were struck by the sight of [18] thousand fists in the air" -Disturbed
by snowburnt on Jul 12, 2009 11:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
