Boldly Hoping: QB
Michael Lombardi recently wrote in the National Football Post that he thinks we will be looking for another QB in a year. At least partly at the root of this assumption is that we aren't offering JC an extension right now. If he plays well next year, he will walk--if he stinks next year, we let him walk. I don't underestimate this at all, and we all see how the business side of the league plays out around the country every year. Lombardi is someone we at HogsHaven respect a great deal, but I don't think this has to be the prevailing philosophy, and I don't think this is the only path here. So begins another entry in the critically-acclaimed, wonderfully italicized Boldy Hoping series.
I don't deal in stats as much as my partner ebag, but this conversation begs for a few numbers. Using nfl.com's regular season passing stats, here is where JC rates in the league in a few important categories in the 2008 season:
|
Category |
JC's numbers |
NFL rank |
|
Completions |
315 |
11 |
|
Attempts |
506 |
10 |
|
Completion % |
62.3 |
14 |
|
Yards |
3,245 |
16 |
|
TD |
13 |
21 |
|
INT |
6 |
1 |
|
QB Rating |
84.3 |
19 |
What can we make out of this? Clearly this isn't a resume of a QB bound for Hawaii, but are these the numbers of a QB who cost his team a chance at making the playoffs? I don't think so. We would be quick to point out that Clinton Portis and the running game were, for most of the season, what provided our identity on offense. Even so, Campbell was in the top third of the league in both completions and attempts. This suggests a heavier reliance on the pass than we may have realized. The 13 touchdown passes stand out don't they? With that many attempts, you would hope to land the ball in a receiver's hands in the end zone a few more times. But he also was tops in the league in protecting the ball. Keep in mind that JC started every game for the Skins. Throwing only 6 pickles over the course of the season is impressive.
Some argue that everything was thrown short, everything was thrown safe. The riskier patterns and throws that tend to generate more interceptions were never really tested regularly during the season. Here, they may have a point. Campbell was 24th in the league with a paltry 6.4 yds per attempt. That is just barely more than some of the top running backs averaged per rushing attempt. (Portis averaged 4.3 yards per attempt, Adrian Peterson 4.8, and DeAngelo Williams 5.5!) In today's league, the passing game has to come up with bigger plays on a consistent basis.
Campbell's completion percentage is good enough to put him in the top half of the league, and his quarterback rating (depending on how much stock you place in this formula and metric) is mediocre but not bad.
I don't like to ever use lack of a experience in a system as an excuse for poor performance. You may not expect a player to perform like a Hall of Famer in the first year of a new system, but if they stink it up, they should be cut. Especially when it is clear that this time, the system is going to be allowed to stick around (for at least 2 consecutive seasons!! whoa.) These numbers don't suggest to me that JC stunk it up. For a relatively young player, in what you can fairly call his 2nd real chance at being the "guy" at the outset of a season, these numbers suggest that JC can handle his business in the NFL. A second full season under the tutelage of Zorn offers some rather tasty hope.
Let's not take too hard of a whack at our offensive line today. But let's also not overlook the fact that there was a real breakdown in both run-blocking and pass protection as the season wore on. Opposing defenses dedicated themselves to stopping Santana Clause, and JC was left holding his junk in his hand as no other receiving threat emerged.
The NFL suffers from a dearth of talent at the QB position. Look at some of the guys who took snaps this year: Ken Dorsey, Bruce Gradkowski, Ryan Fitzpatrick...sure they are serviceable, but come on. Not to mention there is not enough talent to push the Kerry Collins', Trent Greens, and Daunte Culpeppers into full retirement yet. We have a guy who is barely above average, but is (by these numbers) just that. And he is still learning. We have some decent depth at the position with a proven resident old guy in Todd Collins and an up and coming gunslinger in Colt Brennan. We're not the Patriots--with Brady and Cassel--but we're also not the Lions. We can build ourselves better around this quarterbacking crew and in so doing would surely increase the performance under center. In fact, we can not afford to ignore other areas of this team to pursue a new QB. Without adequate pass blocking, and without multiple reliable targets at the WR position, no QB can single-handedly do it. Our resources (draft picks and available salary cap) MUST be deployed elsewhere.
At the end of the season, JC made a few plays with his feet that got me excited. He took a few Michael Phelps-sized hits in the backfield and was able to keep his balance and get upfield. He threw more touchdowns than 1 playoff quarterback, for more yards than 4 playoff quarterbacks, for more completions than 8 playoff quarterbacks, and less interceptions than all playoff quarterbacks. Behind a reworked offensive line (subject of the next Boldly Hoping series), and with a better WR group, I see JC connecting on more intermediate and deep patterns. I see him learning to get rid of the ball just a hair faster. I see him trusting more than just one receiver. I see him getting paid.
I believe we have a QB we can win with, and this team needs to figure out a way to grow with him and around him. If we do, JC's numbers should improve to upper echelon status, and we won't just make the playoffs, we'll be a threat to win in the playoffs. Boldly Hoping indeed!
And don't forget, Sunday is JC's day.
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Would you be willing to take a chance on a guy like Mark Sanchez if he falls to #13?
Obviously we have much more important needs than a QB right now, but if Lombardi is correct could we really pass on a guy like Sanchez? A year behind JC would be helpful and hopefully we could shore up the lines in other picks.
rockin' the crab dribble since 2009
Not
from my point of view. But then again, I’m a Brennan fan and of the opinion that he’ll be more impressive through his career than the haters currently advise. Thus I’m not exactly pining after using draft picks on extra QBs.
Shoring up lines in later round picks is unlikely, since our next pick is in the third round. Rhino was a third rounder and he produced zilch (then again Dockery was a third as well, and he paved some roads until he fled via free agency). As I understand centers tend to slip, and we may be able to grab an effective one in the third, but grabbing a starting tackle at that spot would be pretty miraculous.
I say go for the best player, so long as he plays O line, D line or linebacker. The Skins need help in all three positions. If there is a run on one position early on, there should be great value at one of the other positions at pick 13.
TTB!
I'm not a Brennan hater,
but I just don’t understand why people are so confident that he’ll be able to just step in and produce. He played in the Run-n-Shoot in college, and during preseason, he was throwing against 3rd string scrubs.
OTOH, the fact that we have a young competent guy like that also makes me MORE supportive of sticking with Soupy — we’ve got a decent backup if Soupy doesn’t pan out.
By the way, the AZSnakepit does not take responsibility for, nor condone, any alcohol-related accidents or injuries incurred, directly or indirectly, as a result of reading this website.
I think most of the people who believe in Brennan
saw him play in college. He absolutely tore it up. It was all against small schools, but Hawaii isn’t a huge powerhouse itself.
Brennan’s combine numbers were actually very good. His accuracy was better than all other QBs in the draft (so far as I remember he hit every single pass during drills, which nobody else did). His distance was up there with the top dogs at 60 yards or so, and his 40 time hovers around 4.7, with a labrum problem and possibly a bum knee (which he got cleaned up right after this season).
His preseason play was stupendous, and far better numerically than JC or TC’s. Extrapolated to full games, his numbers are almost identical if not better than they were in college. Anyone denigrating those numbers can be written off as a hater of all things numerical.
A staple amongst talking heads is the theory that Brennan’s preseason play doesn’t mean anything because it was against third stringers or current grocery baggers. Nobody mentions that it was WITH third stringers and current grocery baggers (TE Goode? WR McMullen? WR Burl Toler? Is anyone really saying that they were the reason Brennan played so well in preseason? I hope not.).
Sorry for the rant but you did ask.
TTB!
The biggest difference
between the NFL and NCAA football is the quality of the defense — that’s why you don’t have teams routinely scoring 50+ points in the NFL the way you do in college. NFL defenders are bigger, smarter, and most importantly, faster, than the vast majority of college players.
A team like the Iggles can make do with minor league receivers on offense, but with Mickey Mouse defensive players, you’re not going anywhere. The talent gap between the two levels on that side of the ball is much more pronounced than the talent gap on the offensive side.
THAT’S why I discount preseason numbers against 3rd string defenders.
If that isn’t enough — does Steve Spurrier ring a bell??
About the combine — traditionally, being a workout wonder doesn’t mean ANYTHING in the NFL. Neither Anquan Boldin nor Larry Fitzgerald even broke 4.5s on the 40 at the combine, and we all know how that translated into instant fail in the pros.
Don’t worry, living on the west coast, I watched plenty of Brennan’s games, especially over his last 2 years. (Especially since his backup, Ty Graunke, went to my HS) I know he’s talented. But college numbers do NOT translate well to the NFL, especially in a renowned pass-happy system like Hawai’i’s version of the Run-N-Shoot. As joshp mentioned, the easiest way to discount whether or not Brennan’s numbers will translate to NFL success is to look at other QBs who have come through the same system. Timmy Chang held the record for NCAA touchdown passes for all of… what? Two years? Before Brennan broke his former teammate’s record? And Chang STILL holds the record for passing yards. Where is he now?
Winnipeg.
By the way, the AZSnakepit does not take responsibility for, nor condone, any alcohol-related accidents or injuries incurred, directly or indirectly, as a result of reading this website.
Great response,
not much to say after that really. ‘Specially the Spurrier reference. Pretty damning. And Timmy Chang’s pedigree really does stink it up for Brennan.
As reparte I’ll mention that Brennan’s 70% passing percentage blows Chang’s 57% out of the water.
He’s great friends with Cooley, which must mean he’s awesome with super chemistry.
Aside from the fact that I invoked his combine, this is the first time I’ve ever heard of him as a workout wonder. I mentioned it because I’ve heard many people wrongly talk stink about his performance there.
Chang was cut after a single preseason expose for Detroit against St. Louis in 2005. Maybe he wasn’t playing against third string defenders? I couldn’t even find stats for the game (I didn’t look too hard though).
Lastly, remember how everyone on the field and in the crowds got fired up when his number got called? Madden made mention of it, and he has a video game.
Despite its length (longwindedness is a fault of mine) this is meant as no challenge to your argument. Brennan is either the real deal or will be a second string journeyman at best.
P.S. I hear Winnipeg is nice in Summer, eh?
TTB!
Wow...
most people wouldn’t concede like that. I respect that.
Don’t get me wrong, I REALLY want Soupy and/or Colt to work out. I’m just not a fan of people advocating removing Campbell and sticking in Brennan when Colt would need even more development time.
By the way, the AZSnakepit does not take responsibility for, nor condone, any alcohol-related accidents or injuries incurred, directly or indirectly, as a result of reading this website.
timmy chang
all you really gotta say about brennan. maybe he could be a decent nfl starting quarterback, but that would certainly be a surprise to me
I say no.
What are Carson Palmer and Matt Leinart doing these days? And DO NOT even bring up Cassell — in New England’s offense, even I could throw for 4000 yards and 20 TDs.
And I’m like 5’6 and 140lbs.
By the way, the AZSnakepit does not take responsibility for, nor condone, any alcohol-related accidents or injuries incurred, directly or indirectly, as a result of reading this website.
Not "hating on".
Just sayin’ — he’s got great receivers in Chad Johnson and TJ Housh, but isn’t getting it done these days. He had an outstanding 2005 season, but has gone downhill since then.
I still think he’s the Bengals’ franchise QB, I’m just saying he hasn’t been very impressive lately.
By the way, the AZSnakepit does not take responsibility for, nor condone, any alcohol-related accidents or injuries incurred, directly or indirectly, as a result of reading this website.
I mean
has he ever had a decent team around him? Sure, the WRs are great but what about the o-line and running game? It’s never been there and I don’t think he’s a good example. Also, I think you’re mistaken about Cassel. Someones going to give up a #1 for him and they’re not going to do it if they believe theres a chance he’s not the real deal
rockin' the crab dribble since 2009
That doesn't make it a smart deal, either.
The Danny routinely hands out 1st round draft picks like Halloween candy, overpaying for players in trading for them. Cassel reminds me somewhat of AJ Feeley. (Remember him? 3rd stringer who started when McNabb and Koy Detmer got injured? Hot commodity for a time? The Dolphins gave up a 3rd for him, and then he went to south Florida and sucked.)
Show Cassel having success without Randy Moss, Wes Welker and that great O-line, and THEN I’ll believe it.
By the way, the AZSnakepit does not take responsibility for, nor condone, any alcohol-related accidents or injuries incurred, directly or indirectly, as a result of reading this website.
JC is fine
Did he make enough game changing plays last year no, however he cut his turnovers down dramatically most notably fumbles. Also what the hell did the man have to work with as weapons? For a QB at the pro level he’s done well jumping from one system to another and should be given some slack. Let’s also not forget the lackluster O-line that was supposed to give him time in the pocket..I mean the man couldn’t even have time for a three step drop.
I'm worried about the beer supply. After this case, and the other case, there's only one case left- Barney Gumble
by CptChaosSidekick on Feb 12, 2009 6:47 PM EST reply actions
No way to drafting a QB in the first round or any round
Sorry hibachi…if we did that Vinny and Danny would need to get around the clock protection. If Sanchez is available at 13 though, we might be able to trade the pick. He could be a decent value there for someone to jump up and grab, especially if he performs well in the upcoming workouts.
Excellent point
about trading the pick. Hadn’t thought about that.
By the way, the AZSnakepit does not take responsibility for, nor condone, any alcohol-related accidents or injuries incurred, directly or indirectly, as a result of reading this website.
by DbacksSkins on Feb 12, 2009 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
I have watched JC since being a sophmore in college at Auburn. This guy has all the tools. Unfortunately being to watch Redskin’ football on Sundays in south Alabam is challenging at best!
However with that said, I saw several passes dropped but more importantly I think the Redskins receivers are not finishing routes, not adjusting to what the Defense is giving and they don’t always look like they are on the same page as Jason..I do not know who to blame. But I would find it hard to beleive it is JC
I REALLY don't think the problem is Campbell.
I feel like even the reanimated ghost of Joe Montana, who isn’t even dead yet, couldn’t pass behind that O-line, and with receivers who break off early.
By the way, the AZSnakepit does not take responsibility for, nor condone, any alcohol-related accidents or injuries incurred, directly or indirectly, as a result of reading this website.
Exactly
My whole thought is exactly that. He ain’t the problem. People get so caught up in pushing for an elite player at QB, they forget we have an studly defense, and if we spent some draft picks on the offensive line, the overall performance of our offense would be markedly improved. Which in turn would give even more power to our defense.
by Ken Meringolo on Feb 13, 2009 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
This statement is flat-out wrong! well 1/2 of it is wrong.
If he plays well next year, he will walk—if he stinks next year, we let him walk.
This is where Danny and the boy wonder WILL spend money, on proven Redskins. If he does well next year, the Redskins will give JC his pay day and he will remain a Redskin.
If improvement is not seen, and the team regresses then yes, he will be allowed to walk…but no QB changes will occur addition or subtraction this year, other than a possible undrafted player picked-up for the practice squad.
This is where Danny and the boy wonder WILL spend money, on proven Redskins.
Tell that to Ryan Clark, Antonio Pierce, Robert Royal, Fred Smoot (the first time), and Derrick Dockery.
By the way, the AZSnakepit does not take responsibility for, nor condone, any alcohol-related accidents or injuries incurred, directly or indirectly, as a result of reading this website.
So True...but
I’m going off the crazy idea that a change did occur during the Gibbs II era, which made the front office start to look at the Redskins as a NFL team and not a Fantasy team, starting with last year….and only more time will tell.
Those guys all DID leave
during Gibbs II — although, in all honesty, it’s unfair for me to include Dockery in that group. Buffalo made him an insanely overpriced offer, and our FO didn’t match. It was smart on our part.
However, it would have been nice to have had some young guy who was being tutored by Buges and ready to step in and take his place.
By the way, the AZSnakepit does not take responsibility for, nor condone, any alcohol-related accidents or injuries incurred, directly or indirectly, as a result of reading this website.
I agree...it would be wrong
In the context of the sentence that precedes the one you point out, I am suggesting the possibility that if he plays well, he might tell the Skins to F’ themselves—because we are not offering him a contract NOW. This of course assumes that the CBA gets patched up since if it does not he will not be able to be an unrestricted free agent.
Obviously if he plays well we would want to try and keep him, but I am reading into these articles by guys like Lombardi that JC’s camp is not exactly thrilled that Vinny is not forthcoming with any contract offers right now. The sentence you point out as wrong is exactly what I am saying is the environment/philosophy we should try and avoid.
by Ken Meringolo on Feb 13, 2009 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
Agree but
The article guys are putting too much emphasis on what has happened in the past then what is occuring now…believing in a change.
The business side with JC, if he would go to another team for a similar or “lesser” offer than the team he is with because his feeling were hurt by not having it done a year earlier…not smart
The downside is the lack of a 2010 contract could cause a poor performance by JC in 2009, but lets hope for a break-out year and a big pay day :)
You're preaching to the choir
I agree with you about the change in team-building philosophy that has seemed to occur since Gibbs II. I credit Gibbs with changing the mentality of Snyder and Vinny, and I am ready to see where this is going. In order to prove to me that they have grown, they have to use whatever ends up being their highest draft picks on linemen. I
by Ken Meringolo on Feb 13, 2009 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
+1
By the way, the AZSnakepit does not take responsibility for, nor condone, any alcohol-related accidents or injuries incurred, directly or indirectly, as a result of reading this website.
by DbacksSkins on Feb 13, 2009 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
+2 which is 1+1
and in Vinny’s world that makes 3
I do not care if its the first round or a trade for more 2nd and later picks.
Last year the need was for a reciever, this year Defense and Offense lineman, with a LB thrown in for good measure. Is that was is picked…time will tell 2009 draft

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