Shanahan + Redskins + 3-4 Defense = SuperBowl
by JeanBaptiste on Dec 20, 2009 6:36 PM EST
42 comments
The Plan For 2010
I have written the front office plan I would like to see happen in 2010. I based all of the personnel decisions on having Mike Shanahan as the Redskins head coach and running his prolific offense in 2010. I also am a strong advocate for the 3-4 and I believe the redskins could become one of the NFL’s Elite Defenses by running it. Please Comment and let me know your thoughts!
Coach- Mike Shanahan- Bring in a guy who’s proven and can keep it movin through tough times. Stick it out with him and even if there is a bad season, believe in him. Also if there’s anyone who can breathe life into our running game and our offense it'll be Mike.
Offensive Coordinator- Gary Kubiak- if Houston chooses to let him go he would be a great fit in Washington with Shanahan as the head coach.
Or Charlie Weis- Yes I know he wasn’t good at Notre Dame but Shanahan will be running the offense anyway and Weis is a great football mind capable of being successful in the NFL.
Defensive Coordinator- the Defensive Coordinator from the Jets, or particularly someone who runs the 3-4 defense. It’s time to make the switch. Our defense is good, now it’s time to be great. Orakpo and Carter would be savages on the outside in a 3-4 defense. Get someone who knows that Laron Landry should be playing Strong Safety.
Or- if Eric Mangini gets fired he would be a great defensive Coordinator. He’s innovative and is an experienced coach. Also head coaches who are fired generally make good Coordinators (Mike Nolan, Cam Camron, Greg Williams and practically half the coordinators in the NFL)
Special Teams Coach- Danny Smith, no need to change, this part of our team is solid
QB- Jason Cambell- behind a good offensive line he will be a much better quarterback
Resign Levi Jones, Rocky McIntosh, Hunter Smith and Carlos Rogers
(I'm a little sketchy on resigning Rogers, this would depend on how much he’s asking for)
Release- Antwan Randel El, Ladell Betts, Rock Cartwright, and Randy Thomas, (this one pains me because these guys are high character guys that work hard each and every play)
Free Agents- Brandon Marshall WR- yes this is the typical redskin move but don't let a player of this caliber pass by without you at least trying to get him, also with Mike Shanahan as the head coach this would be a great pick up. Also this would
Logan Mankins RG- Helps to sure up the line, also he would provide great pass protection for Jason Cambell
Marcus McNeil- another lineman would help to sure up the run game
Surprise Free Agent- Reggie Bush- he has a 13.5 million dollar cap charge due to them next season and they are likely to release him. I’m not saying we should bonafide pick him up. Though he is worth a look and with the talent he posses could be a sleeper pick.
(3rd and 6th picks are gone due to Jarmon and Jason Taylor)
1st round- CJ Spiller (Clemson) - yes I know this is a wild pick. However, this is depending on what lineman is available. I say we pick up one of the best 2 lineman available. However, if it happens that the best 2 lineman are gone by the time we pick, I say we trade down acquire a first and 3rd and pick up CJ Spiller (Clemson) who should be a highly sought after running back. He should clock in around a 4.3 and seeing what Chris Johnson is doing this year a lot of teams will try to use a speed back in their game plan. He would bring speed to our offense and would thrive down the road in Shanahan's Offense.
2nd round – Ciron Black (LSU) – He is the 6th rated tackle and depending on his combine should be available for the redskins to pick up in the second round. Either way we know Stephan Heyer is not the answer at right tackle.
Rounds 3-7 – get a free safety/corner, a guard, a Linebacker, and a running back.
No trades for players- (or franchise Carlos Rogers then trade him for a second round pick)
With these off season moves I see the redskins in the SuperBowl and first in the NFC east. Please Comment and let me know your thoughts!
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A Few Problems
Both of your OL fixes, Logan Mankins and Marcus McNeil, won’t be available UNLESS a CBA is reached and 2010 is capped. That’s not the way the smart money is going. For the same reason, Reggie Bush is unlikely to be released.
Brandon Marshall? Same deal.
Oh, and it’s “Kubiak.”
Well Damn
Well Damn! From the way you make it sound, I guess there not gonna be free agency this year
by JeanBaptiste on Dec 22, 2009 4:57 AM EST up reply actions
No
Your assumption is that we should switch to the 3-4 yet you never explain why we should make that change.
We do not have the personnel for a 3-4 defense. We do not have a true NT, Haynesworth is NOT a NT, he’s a 4-3 DT.
I ignored the rest of your post because your premise is totally flawed.
Here are some examples of why I am a 3-4 advocate
Since 2006 the #1 defense has been a team that ran the 3-4 defense. This year hasn’t changed that. The top 3 defenses this year are teams that run the 3-4 defense. Those teams are the Jets, the Packers, and the Broncos. Also both the Packers and the Broncos were running a 4-3 defense last year and just made the change to a 3-4 defense this year. Neither the Packer nor the broncos were even in the top 16 defenses last year and this year they are the #2 and #3 defenses respectively. Both of these teams were said not to have the personnel to run a 3-4 defense. Yet here they are running the 3-4 defense and proving its dominance.
by JeanBaptiste on Dec 21, 2009 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
Orakop and Carter are better 4-3 DEs than 3-4 OLBs
besides, why fix whats not broke? we have a good run defense and good pas rush. All we need is better DBs.
Orakpo!!! Eric Berry, Sam Bradford or Russel Okung next year!
Nope
It all depends on what you use as “the top defenses” and the only real stat that matters for a defense is point allowed. The top defenses are the Jets, and the Ravens who have each allowed fewer than 230 points. The Ravens run a 4-3 defense. The Colts, who have as good a defense (248 points allowed) as the Broncos and a better defense than the Packers, also run a 4-3 defense. The Packers have allowed 280 points which is 30 points more than we have (prior to last nights game). The Broncos have allowed 250 points which is also more points that we’ve allowed. If you want to look at teams that went from a 4-3 to a 3-4 then also look at KC where it has been a total disaster – they’ve given up 383 points.
So, to people who follow football and understand what’s going on, there is no automatic superiority in a 3-4 defense. Can it be effective, yes, with the right people just like the 4-3 defense can be effective with the right people.
We don’t have the people for a 3-4 defense. You really should research Nose Tackles as they are not interchangeable with defensive tackles. To assume a DT can just switch to play NT is wrong. At 6’6" Haynesworth is much too tall to play NT plus quite frankly he can’t stay healthy as a DT and a NT takes a lot more punishment than a NT. In a 3-4 the linebackers get all of the glory while the linemen do the dirty work (taking on multiple blockers to free up the LBs).
So what you want to do is dismantle a defense that is already pretty good, spend FA money and draft picks on getting the right people for the 3-4 defense at a time when our entire OL needs to be rebuilt. That’s a bad set of priorities.
The 3-4 defense is not new!
The old American Football Conference used the 3-4 to a great extent. There have been cycles when 3-4 was a preferred scheme and visa versa for the 4-3. The good NT may be hard to find, but athletic linebackers maybe easier to find than enough DTs to keep on the pressure all game and through the season. There might be some advantages to the 3-4 when considerations for special teams are involved, i.e., not as many 300+pounders are needed.
by Jefferson1935 on Dec 22, 2009 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
If you judging by points allowed
If your going by points allowed then 8 of the top 11 (two teams are tied for the tenth spot w/ 280 points allowed) teams run a 3-4 defense. Of those eight teams Baltimore and San Francisco run a hybrid 3-4 /4-3 defense. And as far as Kansas City goes can you name a playmaker on their defense.
I completely understand what you’re saying about the Nose Tackle issue. I am going to have to respectfully disagree you may say that Haynesworth is too tall but I beg to differ. He’s a football player and I don’t believe his height will be issue. The same things were said about Shaun Rogers and he proved those issues wrong. Haynesworth is one of the best DT’s in the league. He’s one of those guys that would dominate the line no matter where you put him.
Also I don’t want the Defense to be dismantled. Just Shifted around a bit.
by JeanBaptiste on Dec 22, 2009 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
Carter struggled mightily when SF when to 3-4 in his last year
You are wrong about him.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
by smutsboy1 on Dec 22, 2009 3:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly
It’s a totally illogical assumption that the 3-4 would be a better defense.
It's the base Defense--Not the Defense
The Redskins use a base 4-3 defense, but the overall defense is modified and setup different depending on the play.
hmmm
Reggie Bush is way overated , CJ Spiller , now i like the sound of that
'' If we score , we might win . If they dont score , We will win '' Willis White
I pretty much gagged all over every point you tried to make.
Enough gagged.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
So..
basically you want a whole new coaching staff and defensive system in here again?? No thanks. Shannahan is enough, maybe a defensive coordinator if one becomes available that we can’t pass up. Keep both the Sherms, Smith, and Grey. We have to keep some kind of consistency in here or it will be another 5 years before we go back to the playoffs!
Why are people trying to turn this team into the Colts
I would bet they would not be 23 straight wins in the NFC East. We have a foundation and a tradition that works in this conference, let’s keep as much of it together as we can. Still say keep Zorn, The Sherms, Gray and Smith, and JC. We can build on that and be competitive next year rather than blow up the team and be 2-3 years POSSIBLY rebuilding.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
by Scott E on Dec 21, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Really?
Jim Zorn inherited a playoff team. Since then he has failed to produce a winning record. Jim Zorn somehow brought us into a rebuilding phase, now its time for someone to get us out.
by JeanBaptiste on Dec 21, 2009 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
we were barely a playoff team
we were far from a perennial playoff team. And that team made the playoffs when these offensive linemen were 3 years younger.
Samuels & Jansen aren’t who they were in 2005.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
That's nuts
Doing the same thing and expecting different results. Ok. A “foundation and a tradition that works in this conference” you say. Hmmmm…. that’s why the Giants have owned us for the last decade. The Cowboys in general kick our a$$ regularly. The Eagles are one of the best teams of the past decade, even though they can’t win the big game in January..
The Redskins don’t even deserve to be in the East anymore. They should make the Skins play in the ACC. Even then I think Georgia Tech would come into Washington on a Monday night and hang 40 on our " foundation ", as you say.
by williamhudsonlink on Dec 22, 2009 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
Recommend with a Gold Star!
Yes: Although I’m afraid Zorn will be gone and much of the offensive staff
I am a Giants Fan & what are you smoking?
Redskins will stay irrelevant as long as Dan Synder keeps tinkering. Jets really dont have a Defensive Coordinator, Rex Ryan runs defense and he is head coach. Kubiak isnt going to go back to sidelines as an assistant again, he is still a head coaching candidate outside of Houston. Yes, Eric Mangini would be the perfect guy to undermine
a new head coach, holding a the job he wants for himself. Charlie`Weis as an Offensive, Offensive Coordinator would be Shanahan descision, that couldnt be done without Shanahans okay. Even Joe Gibbs had it with Snyder, and lost the fire in his gut.
Stay irrelevant Pigglets, draft a Tebow, or trade up for a Colt McCoy, Portis is done, and the Jets arent going to suckered again into letting roster become Redskin wish list. By
the way St Johns University changed their name from the Redmen to the Storm. Its not just politically incorrect but rascist to call your team the Redskins, Washington politics
led the way in committing genocide against Native Americans. Even the Washington Bullets changed their name to the Wizards, in a city that probably leads the nation in violent crime. The Cleveland Browns were named after Paul Brown, and the Cinncinati Reds are the RedLegs, not Marxists. Only the Skins perpetuate out worn, outdated stereotypes. Maybe you have to change your karma?
by sudden death overtime on Dec 21, 2009 6:24 PM EST reply actions
Redskins
Sudden… – Knock off the politically correct drivel.
NO
DO NOT “draft a Tebow, or trade up for a Colt McCoy” as all they’ll do is get slaughtered behind our OL.
Draft and OL and worry about QB & RB in a couple of years.
By the way, the term Redskin was originated by a native american indian and it was not a derogatory word.
Who wrote this?? Vinny Cerrato?
Seriously?
Brandon Marshall- Awful idea
Reggie Bush and CJ Spiller- Great idea lets spend a ton of value on essentially the same type player. Why not trade for Joshua Cribbs, Devin Hester, and Darren Sproles too!?!?!
3-4: Defense. Why do people keep bringing this up. WE HAVE A GOOD DEFENSE! You didn’t mention drafting or signing any linebackers, so who is your personnel for the 3-4 when we don’t have enough LBs as it is? Orakpo plays better with his hand on the ground.
Furthermore, if theres a salary cap we’re about 40 mil over with this plan.
Read carfeully this time
1) You must not have read correctly all I said was that if Reggie Bush became a free agent that he was worth a look.
2) Yes I didn’t mention the pick of linebackers and 3-4 DE’s because I only mentioned notable free agent pick ups. I don’t see us going after a high priced defensive player this year.
3) Yes we have a good defense, but you seem to have short memory and have forgotten what happened when we played Detroit. We made Mathew Stafford look like a Prow Bowl quarterback. My point is that its time for us to have a great defense. Since 2006 the #1 defense has been a team that ran the 3-4 defense. This year hasn’t changed that. The top 3 defenses this year are teams that run the 3-4 defense. Those teams are the Jets, the Packers, and the Broncos. Also both the Packers and the Broncos were running a 4-3 defense last year and just made the change to a 3-4 defense this year. Neither the Packer nor the broncos were even in the top 16 defenses last year and this year they are the #2 and #3 defenses respectively. Both of these teams were said not to have the personnel to run a 3-4 defense. Yet here they are running the 3-4 defense and proving its dominance.
4) The Brandon Marshall pick is not for everyone. My point in picking him up is that he flourished in Shanahan’s offense and I believe he could do so again.
So you want to play a rookie 4th round pick as our starting LB? Great idea!!!!!
I don’t care what kind of defense does what, we don’t have the personnel to run a 3-4 and you haven’t listed any solutions. You are totally ignoring our strengths as a defense… Orakpo and Carter as 4-3 pass rushers and Fletcher as a true MLB. The other teams you listed have speed a LB, we don’t!
The Packers have given up 31 (Bengals), 30 (Vikings), 38 (Vikings), 38 (BUCCANEERS!!!!), 37 (Steelers). Thats dominance? The only reason their defense is ranked so high is b/c they play Detroit twice, Cleveland, and St. Louis.
The Broncos gave up over 25 to the Skins, Ravens, and Steelers. Not exactly offensive juggernauts. Denver also gets to play Oakland twice, KC twice, and Cleveland.
Your moves make ZERO sense. Why draft a RB, we need offensive linemen so we can actually run, and a line to grow with complete continuity.
Also, you can not just take a bunch of high profile coaches and put them in a blender and hope that it tastes good. Are you really a Redskins fan? Do you pay attention? EVERY move you have listed is something stupid that we have done before that doesn’t work.
by pas493 on Dec 21, 2009 9:14 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Watch this last game and say our defense is good
I watch us play the giants in total disgust as our quote "good defense" got obliterated. In no sense did we look good. Our pass rush was non existent. Except from the two sacks we got, Eli never looked uncomfortable.
Again my defense:
1) We have two edge rusher Orakpo and Carter, 3 DTs who would play the DE positions (Haynesworth, Griffin, and Gholston), and London Fletcher and Rocky McIntosh would play the Middle. So from what I can see our personnel would can fit the mold.
2) Orakpo already plays linebacker and he played some linebacker in College he seems like he’s ready for a switch to the 3-4
3) I said pick up CJ spiller if the best two linemen are gone. We have no speed at running back and Spiller brings plenty of that.
4) Didn’t the redskins play Detroit, Saint Louis, Kansas City, Tampa Bay, and Oakland? Talk about stat games we played we played 5 of the bottom 10 teams in the NFL.
5) No we haven’t done this before we haven’t gotten a bunch of high profile coaches in Washington. Why not? Well maybe because they aren’t all available like they are this year. Now for once we have an opportunity to get great coaches and you’re bashing the idea. I doubt your validity as a fan.
6) If your point is that we don’t have enough speed at linebackers then what is the point of free agency and the draft. There was a point where it was believed that your draft philosophy was to draft a starter in every round.
7) Don’t doubt low round draft picks either. Wasn’t Chris Horton a 7th round pick. Reed doughty was undrafted kedric Gholson was a fifth round pick London Fletcher a 3rd round pick. That’s why you scout players.
You really don't get it, do you?
Orakpo already plays linebacker and he played some linebacker in College he seems like he’s ready for a switch to the 3-4
Orakpo did not play LB in college, thats why he won numerous awards for being college footballs best LINEMAN! And just answer this when is Orakpo most productive? At LB or DE? How’s the transition to LB working for Aaron Kampman.
So you want our base defense to be ….
Griffin Haynesworth Gholston
Carter McCintosh Fletcher Orakpo
Are you on crack? How are we going to defend the pass? There is no speed. Thanks for the history lesson on draft picks, I thought all NFL stars were 1st rounders, damn what was I thinking?
I doubt your validity as a fan.
Seriously? Fuck you from Redskins Nation. All you want to do is the same shit that hasn’t worked for the past ten years. Bring in high priced, overrated FAs. Draft skill position player where there isn’t a direct need. And hire high priced, big named coaches and coordinators. Charlie Weis? You’re a joke
Now your
(This is the starting lineup by the way)
Carter Griffin, Haynesworth, Daniels
McIntosh, Fletcher, Orakpo
The 3-4 LineupGriffin, Haynesworth, Gholson
Carter, Fletcher, Mchintosh, Orakpo
OMG THERE NOOO SPEED!!! Syke….. There isn’t even much of a change
The only thing that changed is that Phillip Daniels is out of the lineup. Now you’re saying that we can’t defend the pass. Hmmm I think that’s the secondary’s job.
Aaron Kampman? That’s one player. As a whole their defense improved. They went from the #20 defense to the 2nd ranked defense. And their 10th in points allowed 9th in forced fumbles and 3 in interceptions. That turnover column is an area that we can surely improve on.
by JeanBaptiste on Dec 22, 2009 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
You do not understand the difference between a 3-4 and 4-3
If you think the only thing that changed was Daniels out and Gholson in…
Why did Haynesworth talk about him not being used correctly, because in most of Blache’s defenses he is to hold the line. Guess what the number one job of the NT is, yes to hold the center of the line…
by dr WNC on Dec 22, 2009 10:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for the starting lineup, I've never watched the Redskins before...
Ask any fan and your ideal lineup for next year will be
Jarmon Griffin Haynesworth Carter
McIntosh Fletcher Blades or FA
when did i say that
where in the world did this line up come from
Jarmon Griffin Haynesworth Carter
McIntosh Fletcher Blades or FA
by JeanBaptiste on Dec 23, 2009 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
I think you're forgetting someone on that line pas
SpotieOtieDopalicious
Only a true @sshole
Now for once we have an opportunity to get great coaches and you’re bashing the idea. I doubt your validity as a fan.
Only an @ss would say something like this. Jean Baptiste? Are you french? What a loser. Quit littering up the Hog Haven pages with your garbage. I am dumber for having read it.
by williamhudsonlink on Dec 22, 2009 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
Your plan involves multiple expensive free agents
Are you posting for Dan Snyder?
NO MORE FREE AGENTS
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
by smutsboy1 on Dec 22, 2009 3:26 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
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