2 Concrete Reasons Jon Gruden Should Not Be the Redskins Next Head Coach
by KevinE on Dec 18, 2009 12:00 PM EST
in Analysis
133 comments
I know Shanahan is the front-runner, but anyone (Junkies I'm talking to you) who is lobbying for Jon Gruden as the next Redskins head coach needs to SERIOUSLY re-think it for the following two reasons.
Mr. Snyder, PLEASE ask Gruden to have answers for these issues (if you are interviewing him). Five straight years of porous draft selection is Matt Millen-esque.
1.) Gruden's draft history. From 2004-2008, Gruden and Bruce Allen combined for only ONE pro-bowler over 44 draft picks (see full grid of picks after the jump). The Gaines Adams pick is still a very touchy subject in Tampa. McKay built that Super Bowl team and Gruden ran him out. The Super Bowl team Gruden "built" in Oakland was mainly in free agency (Gannon, Woodson, Romanowksi,etc).
McKay, the architect of the Bucs' Super Bowl championship team, left because of philosophical differences with Gruden, who clashed with the former GM over numerous personnel decisions.
2.) Gruden's relationship with players is VERY suspect. He divides locker rooms and that is a bad fit for a GM who establishes a relationship with players. From my interview with my relative who has contacts with the Tampa Bay organization:
Gruden used to say he couldn't put Galloway and Bryant on the same field at the same time, which is baloney. If you're the offensive genius that has a playbook that looks like the New York phone books, you can do anything you want to do. Galloway got in his dog house. He ran off Keyshawn. He ran off Joe Jurevicius. He's run off a lot of players here.
He put Michael Clayton in the dog house. He caught 80 balls his rookie year, then he wouldn't even throw to him in practice. He basically humiliated Chris Sims.
Horrible draft history of Gruden after the jump...
Tampa Bay draft history with Bruce Allen and Jon Gruden:
Note: It was known that Gruden was the one making all the picks. Bruce's philosophy is to support the coach.
|
Round |
2008 |
2007 |
2006 |
2005 |
2004 |
|
1 |
Gaines Adams |
Michael Clayton |
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2 |
Dexter Jackson |
- |
|||
|
3 |
Alex Smith (TE) |
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4 |
Will Allen |
||||
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5 |
|||||
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6 |
|||||
|
7 |
Cory Boyd |
Rick Razzano J.R. Russell |
Mark Jones |
Bolded names are pro-bowlers.
0 recs |
133 comments
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Also, There is no escape clause in Gruden's new ESPN contract for 2010.
Gruden will have to wait untill 2011-12 season if he wants to coach again,
Orakpo!!! Eric Berry, Sam Bradford or Russel Okung next year!
by Horcasitas4 on Dec 18, 2009 12:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Even ESPN TV hosts question this "no escape."
I doubt it’s rock solid.
by KevinE on Dec 18, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In the entertainment and sports business
no contract is rock solid; just made to the advantage of someone when its broken.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
by Scott E on Dec 18, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A lawyer friend of mine says such a clause is mostly b.s.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
by smutsboy1 on Dec 18, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It probably means
that if a team wants to hire him, they’ll have to pay ESPN. That’d be my guess.
"The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, 'I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it.'"
by DbacksSkins on Dec 18, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder how many draft picks we'll have to give ESPN for him :)
that if a team wants to hire him, they’ll have to pay ESPN
Pommylee
by Pommylee on Dec 20, 2009 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Escaping from Gruden
Now that “official talks have begun with Shanahan”….
With Vinny gone now there’s actually a chance that
a) we can land Shanahan
b) keep him for more than 2-3 seasons unlike the past experiments with some respected coaches (Schottenheimer)
It looks like this could be the start of a new era, but who would stay and go? I would imagine Blache would stick around but the Offensive think-tank would be cleared out. And then the question of JC…..I haven’t heard any mention of him on Allen’s philosophy.
by A-Frankie on Dec 18, 2009 12:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
no more Blache
at this point, I’d rather keep Zorn than Blache. Wow, did I just say that?
by CJHutch on Dec 18, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That ain't no pipe
that’s the bottle speaking, step away-CJ-step away
by dr WNC on Dec 18, 2009 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
TGIF
or, better yet, TGIFAVG. Let’s see yer PhD decipher THAT one doc.
Anyway, my point is, I DO NOT want Blache back. This defense has looked good DESPITE the handcuffs he places on it. We’re basically defending teams with one hand tied behind our back.
by CJHutch on Dec 18, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
PhD does not exsist for the dr
but TGIF And Vinny is Gone would work great in my book.
by dr WNC on Dec 18, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like your thinking there, CJ
Not so much because I like Zorn, but the argument can be made that he was given more tools then the O and did not perform to what was expected/needed. He may have cost us as many games on long drives (eg Cowboys) as Zorn failed to get wins on 2 min. long drives (e.g. Saints.)
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
by Scott E on Dec 18, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Very well said: Hopefully it will be a good era and long
Blache, I believe he is going to retire at the end of the season. His choice to no longer speak to the media except on his terms, pushing Gray as the face of the defense…..potential new Defensive Coordinator.
JC17 is the key, it makes no sense to change QB in 2010, unless the Redskins pickup a 1st and 2nd or 3rd pick for Jason with another team signing him.
JC17:
He is relatively cheap, he is solid and has shown the ability to learn multiple offenses and will be a great backup down the line if a “franchise” QB is brought in to start learning the NFL game
by dr WNC on Dec 18, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
on that note
one thing I haven’t seen mentioned yet is the possibility of us drafting a 1st round QB AND resigning Campbell. While that wouldn’t be my first choice, I would be OK with it if Okung were gone and we went for the best player available. Who knows, we could end up in a situation like San Diego (and New England) had, with 2 young, starter quality QB’s, that we could maybe parlay into some high draft picks down the line.
Now, personally, if we can’t land Okung, I’d be happy if we ended up with Suh.
by CJHutch on Dec 18, 2009 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Me too but he won't be there I bet
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 18, 2009 1:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
I’m not convinced that any of the QBs in next year’s draft are going to be worth the pick. Stick w/JC and use the picks for building the core.
by Smack27 on Dec 18, 2009 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was talking about Suh
If we go QB at all we should go second rounder(like Colt McCoy who I know nothing about but has a second round grade and has been scouted by Snyder).
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 18, 2009 1:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
trust me
in no way, shape, or form do I WANT us to draft a QB in the 1st round. All I’m saying is that, if we do, we should keep Campbell also. Every thread I’ve seen on drafting a QB talks about him starting right away. And, subsequently, us having to wait for him to be ready. I just think that if we DO decide to go QB in ANY of the higher rounds, we should still keep JC. I just think ANY highly touted QB would do better riding the pine for a couple of years.
by CJHutch on Dec 18, 2009 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Same as above
in that I would rather have 2 good QBs instead of 1 plus….?? Why not groom one and see if he can beat out Jason and play at this level.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
by Scott E on Dec 18, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is Colt out of the question?
Can he be groomed? And Jason is not upper echelon, but he is at least better than half of the QB’s out there. O line in the first!!!
Although Suh is a FRAKIN BEAST!!! imaging Haynesworthless, Orakpo and Suh coming at you!!!!!!
by brettpedigo on Dec 18, 2009 8:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah and we do need to get some more DT's
cuz Griffin and Haynesworth are the only ones under contract for next year and Griff is done. Suh would be a total luxury pick though I could def. live with it. I think he will go top 3 though.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 18, 2009 9:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The draft
seems weak this year. Suh won’t be there. Okung probably not, depending exactly how we finish and there aren’t any other top 10 tackles. Claussen around 8 or 9 isn’t the worst thing that could happen, but he is looking top 5 now anyways. I think we should trade back into the middle of the 1st round and look at the next tier of OTs while also adding a 2nd or 3rd to nab an OG, RB, or QB.
I will also say now I would rather have a 1st round QB than 1st round RB.
Hopefully we get Shanny, his philosophy on running backs (and valuing OL) has always been spot on (have an awesome OL and get a new 3-4th round RB every couple seasons).
by Mr. E on Dec 18, 2009 6:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good era and long??
Have you not watched snydie work for the past 10 years? Let me predict the “Shanahan dynasty”. 2010 season: 6-10 or 9-7 maybe a wildcard (maybe) this will send snydie in a panic, he will try to force his hand, spend $100 billion bringing Joe Montana out of retirement (or snagging bret favre) 2011 season 7-9 or 8-8, no playoff spot, 3rd in NFC East, Snyder is now in talks with Herm Edwards, and Barak Obama’s campaign advisor for possible new head coach prospects… This guy has done this over and over.. We continue to have Championship off seasons, and mediocre seasons (at best). I know change is coming, makes sense, and of course all Skins fans are used to it, change is the only thing that doesn’t change in Washington
The lion didn't become the King of the jungle by courting the favor, or earning the admeration of lesser mammels
by hoosherdaddy137 on Dec 21, 2009 8:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I gotta ask..
why would anyone want someone like Shanahan or Gruden? In their final years…their teams had epic collapses.
Why not go for a coordinator, someone like Leslie Frazier from the Vikings?
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 18, 2009 12:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Shanahan's collapse was well documented from my interview with Karl Mecklenburg
Shanahan was in over his head as Gm and Coach…and he had no talent in evaluating defense. The Broncos’ defense was horrible…also, the Cutler draft pick and injuries poisoned that locker room. So, a fresh start with a solid defense could be a winning formula for Mike.
http://www.hogshaven.com/2009/11/17/1160647/interview-with-broncos-legend-karl
by KevinE on Dec 18, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He'd definitely be an improvement
but I agree with FreeBradshaw that there have got to be other good candidates out there. Like I said below, I’m hoping that Allen isn’t lying to us already about just settling in and getting to know Zorn and the team for these next three weeks before working on the next step.
by Boo. on Dec 18, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Snyder would respect someone who wasn't a big name
he’d just run roughshod over the new HC like he did to Zorn.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 18, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can see that.
Tho, the sense I get from Zorn..is that he allows that sort of thing..doesn’t seem like the type to stand up to an owner like Snyder.
Plus, Zorn wasn’t a coordinator at all was he?
Someone like Frazier is a proven coordinator, of one of the better D’s in the game for the past few years.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 18, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Snyder
While the hire hopefully does show more of a hands off approach, In my opinion it will be very difficult to get a head coach which has not come from the offensive side of the ball.
Frazier, a good coach, good coordinator and may be a good HC one day but he will not be with the Redskins because he’s a defensive coordinator.
Snyder still wants the high scoring team, and he does believe the defense is set.
by dr WNC on Dec 18, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have a feeling
that it was Vinny that was the driving force behind Zorn’s roughshod-shaped bruises. The fact that Vinny got the axe really says to me that Snyder actually decided to let someone else run the show, and when he finally realized that his racketball partner was a buffoon he made the change that was needed.
by Boo. on Dec 18, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
very true.
teh Redskins defense is much better than he’d ever have in Denver (probably cuz the defense in Denver was designed for smaller players..cuz of the the thinner air up there…its tough to find that right mix of players to suit that area)
Shanahan probably would work out great if he was just the HC.
Its just…while that’s probably true, is there such a need for a big $ HC?
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 18, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I completely agree with this.
He was well in over his head as Gm and coach. If he’s willing to work with a GM then it could possibly turn out to be a great thing. I just worry that the defense will fall off and/or Shanahan will want most of the higher picks for the offense instead of balancing it out.
by skinsymets on Dec 18, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no doubt
there’s other too aside from Frazier and Grimm..I was just throwing out a name.
Grimm was a Hog too….that’d be nice to get someone from the past.
I dunno what you guys thought of Gibbs..but I didn’t think it was a horrible move at the start.
Also, getting Bruce Allen to be a ‘buffer’ between Snyder and the coach, that’s gotta help too.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 18, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the Gibbs move
was great. In retrospect, it probably would’ve worked a lot better had he had a legit GM to work with, like in his 1st go round. I think having all the hats was too much after so much time away. Although he still had a better run than any other coach we’ve had here since he left the first time.
by CJHutch on Dec 18, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that's the thought I had too.
The whole owner having a run over the team’s decisions, other than business moves…is really a bad idea.
Going forward…I’m not looking forward to what the Redskins do with a real GM in place.
You guys IMO have a lot of talent, its just like those a-holes in Dallas…the fantasy football owner you got at the top, just needs to stay out of it and watch the games/pay the checks.
Tho..gotta say, an owner that wants to win at all costs, like Snyder, its really not a bad thing.
He just needs to stay away from football decisions.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 18, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
not to sound like a broken record, but
I dont think Grimm is HC material…
why would he have been passed up so many times?
by ACo on Dec 18, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
true...
but even Wisenhunt was passed up in favor of Tomlin. That could’ve worked out either way IMO.
Also, Rex (and Rob) Ryan were passed over numerous times.
I dunno what it is sometimes that makes a owner hiring one coach over the other (Rod Marinelli…)
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 18, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well i think its gonna be shanahan...I heard hes at skins park right now
by ACo on Dec 18, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hmmm...
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 18, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with ACo
I get the impression Grimm is not HC material.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 18, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
because he's
a mean SOB. Bill Cowher himself said Grimm would make a great coach. Plenty of guys get passed up time and again, while guys like Norv Turner, Dave Wannstedt, JON GRUDEN, Jim Mora Jr, etc, etc, get multiple opportunities. I realize it’s just my opinion, but I think Grimm would make a great HC. I’ve thought that since he was coaching here. And I know I’m not the only one. Truthfully, not taking anything away from Tomlin (and I’m not trying to start a race debate here), but I think if it weren’t for the Rooney rule, Grimm would be the coach in Pittsburgh. Again, I’m not saying that Tomlin doesn’t deserve the job, I just think that since it IS called the ROONEY RULE, Dan Rooney was most likely gonna hire a minority candidate.
by CJHutch on Dec 18, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thats kindof a stretch CJ
Whisenhunt would have been HC before Grimm would have. I also am concerned that the O-line and run game has been horrible since he has been in Arizona(his responsibility) and Cardinal fans blame him for using a top 10 pick on some RT from Penn State they hate.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 18, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
not really
Grimm was talked about as Cowhers heir apparent well before Whisenhunts star rose.
As for Arizona, I’ve read plenty of stuff from their O-linemen praising Grimm. I can’t hold him responsible for who they draft. I do know that Whisenhunt was ecstatic to have him when he got the job. I also remember OUR O-line loving him, and Jansen being upset when he left.
Anyway, this is all conjecture. Obviously an O-line coach isn’t going to get a lot of press, so all I really have to go off of is what I’ve read. And I remember reading back in ’98 or ’99 that he was going to be a great coach some day. Some guys just never get a shot. (a la Sherm Lewis)
by CJHutch on Dec 18, 2009 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who better to help build our
new O-line from scratch than Grimm? It’s a win win for us and him. The D is ready to rock if Blache leaves, and on O it’s just the line holding us back.
Plus I think he will add overall discipline and accountability to the team which in my mind has been lacking. Finally, he will put the best players on the field based on practice and performance, not FA price tag.
Keep Sherm L to help out, promote Grey and put Grimm on top. My dream world.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
by Scott E on Dec 18, 2009 2:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Grimm has never proven to be a good line coach though
I think we are attributing all this success to Grimm that he hasn’t had.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 18, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
man, you really have
it out for him, don’t you? He was loved in Pittsburgh, by coaches and players, and they had a great line. In fact, their line has tanked since he left. And, don’t you remember Stephen Davis racking up thousand yard seasons every year, and making the Pro Bowl? That was behind Russ’s line. Say what you will about Whisenhunt, but Russ was a coach of 2 Superbowl teams, and a player on 4.
by CJHutch on Dec 18, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am for some reason totally comfortable
bringing in Grimm. I don’t for some reason want some old timer who has the smell of some other franchises long ago glory about them. I want someone who will respect what we have but kick ass and knock us to the next level.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
by Scott E on Dec 18, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't have it out for him just saying he hasn't done much recently and I think we are
making him out to be more than he is cuz of name recognition and the fact he was a Hog.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 18, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But he has BEEN there
to the promised land as a player and a coach. He has had experiences that totally dovetail with what we need. We don’t need him to shore up our D-line, for example. But I bet he could make a point or two to our secondary to keep them more accountable.
Just the fact that Shanahan is out prostituting himself all over the place tells me he will say anything to get the job – and what we’ll get is a cranky, priss, who will build a small, cut blocking O-line that will get eaten up, sat upon and run out of every NFC East stadium. We NEED dem Hogs.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
by Scott E on Dec 18, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but...
Eagles 255 14 5
Packers 254 15 1
The Packers have the #1 rushing YPG and the 2nd lightest line in the NFC
but not the NFC east
Eagles 14 lightest in the NFC with the #5 rushing YPG
by dr WNC on Dec 18, 2009 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can see
how you would think that, but in my case, I would want him whether he was a Hog or not. Now, I’m not denying that that makes him MORE appealing. But I want to see us hire a gruff, no nonsense, throwback coach. We’ve had WAY too many Mr’ Nice Guy’s around here lately. It’s time for our coach to sit at the head of the table, rather than stand up next to it reading the wine list.
by CJHutch on Dec 18, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's kind of my point CJ
People feel we need some gruff old-school guy so they attribute success or characteristics on a guy. Do we know he’s no nonsense. Does no nonsense equal succesfull. It seems like people just want someone who they think talks a certain type of talk but walking the walk is way more import IMO. It’s like people kept on advocating for a “Singletary-type” on HH even though Singletary is not a very good coach if you look at it objectively. The idea of a hardass is appealing to people so we project what we want on guys even though they might not be those guys and being a hardass doesn’t neccesarily mean succesfull. It is just a personality type not a recipe for success.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 18, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In most cases when someone is fired
The find a personality that is the opposite of what they have. It is more about continuity in this league. A team sucks for a while and BOOM! they are in the superbowl. John Fox. Dick Vermiel. I say keep it the way it is for one more year and see what happens next year.
by brettpedigo on Dec 18, 2009 9:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Admittedly
I don’t know if he’s gonna end up as a good coach, just like I didn’t know how Zorn would do, or any other “new coach.” And, for that matter, I don’t know how any “old coach” would do here. But, like Scott E said, I’d like to have OUR OWN coach create HIS OWN legacy with us, for one. Second, I would like a gruff, no nonsense guy. And THAT, I do know, is an accurate description of Grimm. I’ve heard that MANY times in MANY interviews from MANY players/coaches. So, the fact that he’s a hardass, coupled with the fact that he’s “Our Guy”, also added to the fact that he’s an O-line guy, which is the most glaring weakness of our team, makes me want Russ as our coach. But, like I said, that’s MY opinion.
by CJHutch on Dec 20, 2009 10:28 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
fair enough I just wanted to point out being a hardass is a personality trait
not a guaranteed way to success. I just worry about Grimm cuz his star has seemed to fade and I don’t want another new Head Coach who has NEVER called plays or been part of the game plan. We got too much going on for a guy to be learning all these new responsibilities as a HC. Maybe if Grimm was just the HC and delegated all the offensive playcalling and stuff to an experienced assistant and left the DC completely alone. Who knows he could turn out to be a great OC and playcaller, it’s just hye has never done it which brings Zorn flashbacks on me. Plus I think we already have a better OL coach in Bugel.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 20, 2009 1:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
marvin lewis is a very good coach who was passed over many times before. i dont put too much judgement when teams that have had a history of making bad decisions pass someone over. not sure what happened in pitt, but they had A LOT of good coaches. so i dont think too much about it. i do know this, their line has stunk it up this year.
by les boulez bomber on Dec 20, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't say
his star has faded. He is still considered every year. The Jets considered him, and so did the Bills. The playcalling aspect is one reason I DO want him. I DON’T want our HC calling plays. I would rather have a TRUE offensive coordinator and a TRUE defensive coordinator. Grimm learned the most from Cowher, who never called plays. I want my HC managing the game, and inspiring the team.
As for Bugel, I think HIS star has faded. He used to be able to take these undrafted, or low round guys (Like Grimm) and make them stars. Now he can’t even make them decent. Now, that said, Grimm wouldn’t be the O-line coach, so Buges could stay and coach BETTER players.
by CJHutch on Dec 20, 2009 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
when hes being a hardass to someone else
The idea of a hardass is appealing to people
I couldnt think of anything worse than having my boss yelling and screaming at me all day
Mind you, I would have been happy to get Singletary as well, and if you look at Singletarys year, he had the whole team buying into the team concept, and they were winning, then he undermined his whole theme by Starting Crabtree as soon as he came in from his holdout and since then they have been getting smashed
Pommylee
by Pommylee on Dec 20, 2009 11:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
bill parcells, and his disciples, jones, cowher, billickLOMBARDI…lots of hard ass coaches that won.
its not necessarily being a hard ass. it is the ability to motivate through fear that made them so successful. i have no idea if grimm can do that.
the anti hardass- norv turner and joe gibbs
thought it was interesting that two former redskin coaches were leading the #2 and #3 team in the AFC this week! and san diego owns indianapolis! who would have thunk
by les boulez bomber on Dec 20, 2009 11:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not so much the yelling
it’s just that football is a totally macho sport and players tend to respect tough guy disciplinarians. Although, I have to say, it varies by team. A veteran team may better respect a calm, intellectual type – although you can be that and a disciplinarian, too.
I just wonder how much of our woes the past year and a half were due to Zorn growing into his shoes as HC. A lot I bet. But I’d still prefer we give him another year because I think we have something going here and I want to see it play out before we blow it up again.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
by Scott E on Dec 21, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
dude...this is the NFL.
Are you really speculating that he hired a GM because he was black…over talent?
Plus Arizona’s o-line is questionable…
by ACo on Dec 18, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
they are...
but isn’t that more because they haven’t had a chance to overhaul it?
Grimm and Wisenhunt’ve only been there a couple years.
Plus, Levi Brown was drafted at RT, cuz they thought Leinart was gonna be the QB (and RT is the blind side…)
Pittsburgh’s offense wasn’t all that great with Wisenhunt as the OC either at Pitt.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 18, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
also
Levi Brown was RATED top ten, and they were looking for the position, so why wouldn’t they draft him? Truthfully, I don’t follow Arizona enough to know how Brown is doing, but are you REALLY saying that, if he’s a bust, it’s Grimms fault? That’s like saying that Monte Kiffin sucks because Gaines Adams was a bust.
by CJHutch on Dec 18, 2009 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was just saying that there was an interview with the cardinals people here on HH
and they killed Grimm and said the only move that Grimm had actually been involved in was for Brown who apparently they think sucks.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 18, 2009 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
didn't read it
but what do Cardinal fans really know? Anyway, this story contrasts that…
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/2009/12/10/20091210spt-bickley-cards-grimm.html
by CJHutch on Dec 18, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
NO, I'm not
saying they hired Tomlin because he was black. I’m saying they hired him because he was TALENTED and black. Again, I am NOT trying to make this a racial debate. If my thoughts are correct, I have NO PROBLEM with it. I just have the opinion that, since Dan Rooney was the one who started, AND ENFORCED, the rule, he probably felt like it would set a good precedent to do what he was trying to get the rest of the league to do, which is making sure there are more minorities in HC positions.
by CJHutch on Dec 18, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
mike is very talented. dont mistake that.
and yes, i think personality preferences, including race, play a role in most hirings around the world. it is normal to want to work with people you are comfortable with. that means different things to different people. but to deny it as a consideration i think is naive.
so the truth is probably what is obvious to most. he is very talented and race was not a negative factor. what else do you want? they had a lot of good options, many in house. they’re the pittsburgh steelers with a 30 year track record of organizational stability and competence. why do you think i am so hard on dan snyder ???
by les boulez bomber on Dec 20, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and i agree with hutch. if they name the rule after you. you probably will hire a minority if all things are equal (or at least close). i dont think you can argue with the decision because he delivered in his first year.
by les boulez bomber on Dec 20, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+10 and a Bingo!!
I’m tired of picking up everyone else’s old clothes and dirt laundry. Let’s go with someone FRESH>or keep people out of current org.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
by Scott E on Dec 18, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jaws said that Gruden is not leaving MNF
on the Kornheiser show this morning. I tend to believe him.
Im also skeptical about all the Shanahan talk, but starting to be less so. For a while yesterday I kept wondering whether Shanahan was actually one of “Vinny’s Guys” and thats why we’d heard so much about him coming here recently. I thought there was no way that minutes after introducing Allen the team was already ratcheting up talks with Shanahan. Hearing that Shanahan had requested Allen when interviewing with Buffalo and hearing about some of Allen’s shortcomings makes Shanahan seem more likely.
But I also tend to not believe anything that the national media speculates about the Redskins. I don’t know when the last time they said anything that actually ended up happening. I heard an interview with Mortensen last night saying Shanahan was a lock, and we all know Mort is NEVER right.
I’m holding out hope that an actual coaching search happens in the offseason. If Shanahan turns out to be the best candidate, so be it. But I really don’t think that a deal is already in place, or anything imminent like that.
by Boo. on Dec 18, 2009 12:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I kinda like Shanahan
if he hadn’t been given GM powers he would still be the Bronco’s HC. I think his offense is a great fit for JC and our roster. As long as he isn’t making all the decisions on the drafting/roster I think we will be fine.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 18, 2009 12:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
He'll definitely be making drafting decisions. 100% chance.
I’m OK with that as long as the Def Coord has equal voice…which is why we need a DC with balls like Gregg Williams….and Blache.
by KevinE on Dec 18, 2009 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree. Shanny put together a great offense.
It was defense that he couldn’t do.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
by smutsboy1 on Dec 18, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
NO CHANCE!!!
I’m OK with that as long as the Def Coord has equal voice…which is why we need a DC with balls like Gregg Williams….and Blache
Shanahan is shopping himself around with the understanding that he will be bringing in his own Hand Picked DC, its madness I know, but that is what he is doing
When you consider that the Denver D was beyond awful last year and then McDaniels brings whatsisname in with him (i forget now) and a couple of players (Dawkins was big though) then what gives Shanahan the arrogance to beleive he knows anything about D
We have a good D here, Shanny would do well to leave it alone if he gets the job, oh and get someone else to coach in December, the NFC east will become the Race to LAst place between Dallas and Us with Shanahan and Philips in an epic season breakdown-off to finish every season
God I hope Jerry outbids us for Shanahan, replacing one dud December coach for another but just more expensive would just be priceless!!!.
Pommylee
by Pommylee on Dec 20, 2009 11:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
who do u want…that we could get?
by les boulez bomber on Dec 20, 2009 11:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that is the question
who do u want…that we could get?
But based on Shanahan’s Defences in Denver the last few years I can fairly safely say I dont want who he is picking
Maybe Jerry Gray, but really not so sure, wouldnt mind Spagnuolo getting fired in St Louis and coming to us, the dude knows how to work with a talented front four as he proved in NY
Pommylee
by Pommylee on Dec 21, 2009 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But we have Hunter the Punter
I think he is the tie-breaker for December and play-off collapses. He can score, he helps field position, and he handles snaps to help out Gano.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
by Scott E on Dec 21, 2009 1:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Shanahan also worked with Portis in Denver.
Although the Broncs missing the playoffs was primarily their fault, this also came with the rise of the Chargers in the AFC West (still an overall weak division) and the Broncos choice to put ANYONE in at running back. Those last three seasons they were still a playoff contender and were eliminated in either week 16 or 17 of the season
by A-Frankie on Dec 18, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Shanahan is the reason
Portis is a skin. He booted him out of Denver as they did not get along.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
by Scott E on Dec 18, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Are my eyes deceiving me or did the Bucs KEEP MOST DRAFT PICKS in those years?
OMGGGGG
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
by smutsboy1 on Dec 18, 2009 1:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That was my EXACT THOUGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YYYYEEEESSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!
by brettpedigo on Dec 18, 2009 1:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just saw on extreme skins that shanahan is at redskins park!
by ACo on Dec 18, 2009 1:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=312429
although now the redskins are denying it…
by ACo on Dec 18, 2009 1:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
FOX 5’s Dave Feldman has learned that former NFL coach Mike Shanahan was dropped off at Redskins Park Friday morning around 10:00 am, …
And now denial and everything is gone
by dr WNC on Dec 18, 2009 1:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
How does that shit
get OK’d for publishing?
How do you just make up a rumor like that. Honestly, I can’t remember the last time the media (local or national) was actually right about a Skins scoop.
The team was interviewing GM candidates (according to the group that does the Rooney investigations, as early as 10 days ago!) and none of the reporters even had a clue. Worthless.
by Boo. on Dec 18, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what's funny...
was that Feldman was not even at Redskins Park. He got a bad tip…I can’t imagine the heat he’s getting.
by KevinE on Dec 18, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What are the chances its Vinny giving the tips?
I could picture Vinny all these years giving all sorts of off the record tips to reporters that never ended up panning out. Sanchez, Cutler, etc… everyone was saying it was virtually a done deal. Why? Cause Cerrato told them so.
I can’t believe I’m giving him credit, but its possible that he used the media to put a perception out there – especially in this offseason – of a certain way the Skins were going to operate so that they could have a better chance of doing what they actually wanted. I said this during/after the draft: the Skins desperately needed a team to jump in front of them to get Sanchez if there was any chance of getting Orakpo. Obviously, the Raiders taking HeyBey-Bey and the Broncos taking Moreno also worked in their favor, so I’m likely speaking nonsense. BUT WHAT IF ITS TRUE!?
Think of all those ridiculous statements La Canfora made quoting his ‘sources’ that were all generally BS. Think of all the asinine things national reporters have said. Think of how much so many media folks hate Cerrato.
Now think of the Shanahan rumors that have been floating since last year. And then think of what you heard about the GM search. I think the Shanahan ‘talks’ are nowhere close to anything concrete, and Vinny is just trying to sow chaos on his way out the door.
That, boys and girls, is my conspiracy theory of the day.
by Boo. on Dec 18, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Accidents will happen...:)
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
by Scott E on Dec 18, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
national media guys like Lombardi and Pasquerelli and Jeremy Green
have all had nice things to say about Cerrato recently. I think Vinnie is close with national media and has shitty relationship with local media.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 18, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Which would be why the Shanahan story
is getting so much press today. Maybe its not from Cerrato directly, but any “league source” could be someone telling the Media what Vinny told him to say.
And local reporters I think would tend to get more upset about getting BS info than the national guys, who never admit to being wrong or reference anything theye reported in the past anyway.
by Boo. on Dec 18, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
they said we were going to sign Haynesworth...
How do you just make up a rumor like that. Honestly, I can’t remember the last time the media (local or national) was actually right about a Skins scoop.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
by smutsboy1 on Dec 18, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That was really going out on a limb
Its not really a scoop if you have a team – like the skins – that tends to make a splash. And there was no way the reporters could have scooped something concrete before the deal was done, because there was no tampering…. right?…. the league said so. LoL.
by Boo. on Dec 18, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ACo = Mike Florio
Haha, just kidding. I’ve done it before.
by KevinE on Dec 18, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, my b
but florio is pretty bad…I remember he also said the redskins were going to the SB this year.
by ACo on Dec 18, 2009 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hahahahaha
Rumour mill trying there hardest to get the shanny new skins HC scoop.
by mo19678 on Dec 18, 2009 1:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I can't imagine being Zorn in all of this ....
How can anyone concenrate. I guess Sherm Lewis and Blache don’t have to worry so it’s OK. Vinny is a genius! sigh
by KevinE on Dec 18, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rick Maese tweets
According to Fox Channel 5 front page, snow is still expected at Redskins Park. Shanahan not as likely today….lol
by mo19678 on Dec 18, 2009 1:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I will have to agree with your poll; picking Gruden is probably not a good idea.
The team will be subjected to what you see every time on MNF:
Gruden (talking to snyder about Jason Campbell): NOW THIS GUY, YOU SEE HERE IS A REAL COMPETITOR, I THINK I WILL CALL HIM THE GAMER.
With that in mind by all means please hire Gruden.
Ignore the Mainstream Media, EMBRACE THE HATE!!!!
by cowboy78 on Dec 18, 2009 2:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ho ho!
I see what you did there. You would have been more effective telling us NOT to hire Gruden. Ya know? Reverse psychology.
"The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, 'I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it.'"
by DbacksSkins on Dec 18, 2009 2:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If they move quickly on Shanahan...
It is because he is definitely going to coach next year and they want to get him before one of the other hot jobs open up (Dallas, for example).
Last time we went looking for a coach, didn’t we wait forever and pretty much settle for the only guy who A) would take the job and B)was still available
Snyder does not want to let it go to a bidding war…might as well lock him up if he is going to go after him.
One thing I love about Shanny…he has spent his year off studying football. He has been seen in NFL practices around the league, and at college campuses like Florida, studying Urban Meyer’s offense. I dig that.
ALso, he is boys with Vinny, so if he did in fact say, “I can’t work with Vinny,” I think I am in love.
by Sugar on Dec 18, 2009 2:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Is THAT what Shanny's been up to?
I’m liking this idea more and more all the time.
"The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, 'I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it.'"
by DbacksSkins on Dec 18, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And watching New England
Mike Shanahan and Bill Belichick talking at a New England Patriots training camp on August 4, 2009.
by dr WNC on Dec 18, 2009 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah,
I was wondering about that, too.
"The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, 'I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it.'"
by DbacksSkins on Dec 19, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hot
One thing I love about Shanny…he has spent his year off studying football. He has been seen in NFL practices around the league, and at college campuses like Florida, studying Urban Meyer’s offense. I dig that.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
by smutsboy1 on Dec 18, 2009 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think
the only person lobbying for Gruden to be our new HC is the guy who edited his Wikipedia page yesterday.
(Maybe it was Gruden)
"The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, 'I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it.'"
by DbacksSkins on Dec 18, 2009 2:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
No Shannahan, please!
might as well hire Norv back, same difference.
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Dec 18, 2009 3:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, like Norv
Except for the SB rings
by d_c_guy on Dec 18, 2009 11:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he's 91-69 in the last ten years...
and has only won once in the post season in that time period.,..pretty Norval like to me
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Dec 20, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Zorn
i say we’re better off keeping Zorn and the defense…..fix the f-ing oline
Timothy W. Brown
by Diehardskinsfan on Dec 18, 2009 4:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Gruden isn't my 1st pick
but I would still be happy with that. We could do a lot worse.
by Mr. E on Dec 18, 2009 6:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Not really...
I can’t see him in Redskins colors Up-Chuckying the sidelines and messing up the locker room. The guy is all about himself, and himself is a dickhead.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
by Scott E on Dec 21, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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