Understanding Redskins' new GM Bruce Allen's Role; It's Not a Draft Expert
by Kevin Ewoldt on Dec 18, 2009 10:45 AM EST
in Redskins Analysis
69 comments
I don't know about you, but the party is not stopping for me until Tuesday morning. In a moment of clarity, I decided to dive deep into Bruce Allen's past to see exactly what the Redskins are getting. First off, it's nice having someone that is personable that doesn't make me want to gauge my eyes out when he talks. When there is a plan in place, Bruce is someone who will communicate it to the fans. Second, I was under the impression the Bucs horrible run in Tampa was his fault. That would be inaccurate. Bruce is not a talent evaluator...he relies on his coach and scouts to make draft picks. Instead, he is a free agent and salary cap guy.
Bruce has held a similar role the last 20 years from his time with the Raiders and Buccaneers. Bruce Allen commented on his style when he was in Oakland:
Bruce Allen: "We have always believed the players really manage it. When we wanted to sign extra players last year, we went to our current players and told them what we needed to do, and they worked with us to free up room. We have a constant dialogue with our veterans about what we want to accomplish."
Mike Lombardi added his expertise on Allen's style:
Mike Lombardi: "Obviously the coach has a lot of say in what [Allen] runs. Y'know, Bruce doesn't bring the offense or the defense to the team. It just becomes a situation where the coach -- say, with Jon [Gruden], it was a West Coast Offense -- and Bruce has great respect for coaches, and he values their opinions and he values their input."
So, the Redskins draft picks will be HEAVILY influenced by Dan Snyder the Redskins' next head coach. I had a family member who worked in the Tampa Bay organization, and it was well known that Gruden was making all the draft decisions throughout the decade. After the jump, I highlight Bruce Allen's 3 best/worst moves as GM for the Bucs, and his free agent moves that led to the Oakland Super Bowl run.
Rod Woodson, who was signed by Bruce in Oakland, talked about Bruce's fearlessness:
Rod Woodson: He knows football. He's not scared to cut players who need to be cut.
Looks like the over-priced free-agent train is about to hit it's final stop. 2009.
Bruce's resume in Oakland:
Allen, whose official title is senior assistant, was recognized for his deft ability to manage the salary cap last offseason, when the Raiders brought in a number of over-30 veteran stars to upgrade their roster. With the addition of players such as Rod Woodson, Bill Romanowski, Sam Adams and John Parrella, the Raiders won the AFC title before losing to the Bucs in Super Bowl 37.
"Bruce has done a magnificent job managing the cap," says Charley Casserly, the Texans' general manager. "He is continually maneuvering the cap to keep the Raiders in contention."
Upon Allen and Gruden's firing, TampaBay.com listed Bruce Allen's 5 Best and Worst moves:
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5 Best |
5 Worst |
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1 |
Traded Keyshawn Johnson for Joey Galloway |
Signed big contracts to veterans past their prime: RB Charlie Garner, OL Todd Steussie, OL Derrick Deese |
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2 |
Signed Antonio Bryant who was out of the NFL |
Giving QB Chris Simms a two-year contract with $5 million guaranteed after he suffered a ruptured spleen in 2006 |
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3 |
Signed Jeff Garcia who played for 2 seasons |
Entire draft from 2004-2009. (a separate post coming shortly on this) |
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4 |
Left the salary cap in a good position cutting ties with past their prime veterans |
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5 |
Signed Greg White from the Arena Legaue |
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0 recs |
69 comments
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Yikes!
What hope does this give me that his draft class from 04-09 wont just continue in his redskins tenure?
Missed this part:
…it was well known that Gruden was making all the draft decisions throughout the decade.
I have a game worn jersey of Greg White.......
It is a Redskins #90.
Funny, huh.
by brettpedigo on Dec 18, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
Draft
Overall his drafting record is pretty bad. BUT he does actually like to use some picks on O-linemen. That alone is an improvement. Just draft a freakin’ LT with the first pick, after that I barely care at all….
by Hustler of Culture on Dec 18, 2009 10:59 AM EST reply actions
But Allen allowed it?
I’d rather have someone with SOME talent evaluation….not just being blindly led by his head coach.
It gets worse...as reported from the St. Pete Times
You probably remember things differently, don’t you? Allen was the guy who drafted Michael Clayton and Gaines Adams and Dexter Jackson. He was the guy who signed Todd Steussie and Derrick Deese and Charlie Garner as free agents. He was the guy who told his fans that Chris Simms wasn’t hurt and David Boston wasn’t guilty and the Bucs weren’t chasing Brett Favre (This just in: Gruden has since said he went to bed thinking Favre would be a Buc the next morning.)
That was Allen, too, who treated the truth as if he was afraid of going over the cap. He was smug, and he was distant, and he disliked reporters as much as many of them disliked him.
Tampa rejoiced with Bruce’s exit as much as we did with Vinny. I have zero faith in Gruden as a recruiter, but Allen’s resume as a GM is very suspect. Hard to figure out who was doing what in Tampa.
http://www.tampabay.com/sports/football/bucs/with-former-tampa-bay-buccaneers-general-manager-bruce-allen-hired-by-the/1059695
Either way...
It’s clear Bruce Allen did not stand up to Gruden. If Gruden pushed McKay out of Tampa…and Bruce stayed for 5 years, then Bruce allowed whatever Jon said to go.
So the ball is completely in the next HC’s court.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Dec 18, 2009 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
What are you saying?
That they should have kept VC?
I don’t see how Allen can be worse than what we had.
Who we get as HC is a reasonable concern. I’m delusional enough to keep hoping it’s Cowher or Fisher.
at least vinny could draft some tallent!
He was just a spineless piece of crap…who couldnt stand up to danny when he needed. I just dont think Allen is going to be any better. Look at the history.
Drafting talent come from the front office or Vinny
My guess is the front office and as of right now none of that is changing.
did you miss this
“it was well known that Gruden was making all the draft decisions throughout the decade.”
So was it Allen or Gruden?
I can’t blame anyone for disliking reporters, they’re sometimes like vultures – always happy to gorge on a dead carcass (which is us right now).
You’re not a reporter, are you? :P
So did VC
Just be willing to draft OL is an upgrade. VC was undoubtedly going to ignore the OL yet again. At least with Allen we have a shot at getting a OL and that we’ll stop signing so many FA busts.
based on his history
he was willing to draft OL in TB. And he also got rid of some over priced FAs.
And you have no idea of it will be up to him. What did you base that on?
exactly
which is why i purposely had “Dan Snyder” as the draft pick guy crossed out in the post. I think Shanahan would tell him to put a muzzle on it though. He came from Denver who has a great ownership.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Dec 18, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
I just dont think dan will ever allow anyone to tell him to "put a muzzle on it."
unless its gibbs….maybe.
Shanny will blind him with his rings.
He looks like a pretty tough old man. He will dominate Snyder just as Marty did….. So get ready for ANOTHER coach in two years!!!!!!
by brettpedigo on Dec 18, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
True
Good Point. So does it matter who the GM, scouts and HC are? If someone did stand up to him would he just fire them?
One bonus is that we have good scouts
Our scouts found Cooley. The problem is Vinny always went with his gut. I had read that the scouts were not high on Malcolm b/c of his knees, yet Vinny pulled the trigger anyway. Bruce is someone who will take in what the scouts say…though the Coach and owner will override that.
Although who’s to say Shanahan doesn’t clean house in the scouting department.
The upside
is if we go into next year and all our cap problems go away, at least we have someone who can manage the franchise from a cap-impact point of view. Hopefully, that would translate into more draft picks, fewer overpriced FAs and the ability to spread the money around the team so we have better talent all around vs in just a few players. Will also help us retain proven performers. When proven performers are retained via compensation, it adds to the team’s overall internal competiveness IMO.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Agreed +100
We’ve been talking about a fresh eye coming in and evaluating talent for what it is…not who has good relationships with the owner….assuming of course Snyder doesn’t meddle….what are the odds of that???
by Kevin Ewoldt on Dec 18, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
Allen is respected more than Vinny
Regardless of whether he has a great eye for talent Snyder might actually listen to him and now we could have draft decisions made by Snyder, Allen, Head of scouts, and the HC. Strength in numbers. If we got some whiz kid up and coming GM from somebody else’s FO would Snyder listen to him? Hopefully we get some talented scouts or personell people that Allen listens to. I’m not neccesarily in favor of one omnipotent talent evaluator/GM anyways. I think this “Allen is a spineless yes man” angle is a little overblown.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 18, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
I think it will be best
to have a GM that says “hey, we need to draft an OT. Whatcha got?” Then a team of talent scouts say “this guy is at the top of our board. He think he is the best available” and so on and so forth with the rest of the draft / free agents. The more football minds (and the less Snyder) the better.
Actually,
I think Dan is going to be on a severely reduced meddling diet for at least a couple of years. The reason I say this is that by bringing in Allen, with his ties to Redskins lore, he has backed himself into a corner. He’s trying to show respect to the franchise legacy and that includes not firing Allen any time soon. If Allen, the coaches, and talent evaluators do their job, Dan can really only sit back and agree AS LONG AS THERE IS AN AGREED TO PLAN.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
I guess I'm just more cynical/pessimist
As I see it, Snyder can win back his popularity anointing a new GM, but one that carries the “Allen” name and is thus dear to all Skins fans….not only that Bruce is a “listener” and we know what Snyder is … talker./demander.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Dec 18, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
not cynical/pessimist
as much as realistic views based on Snyder himself.
Tend to agree, the hope being as a good listener Bruce can also convince Snyder what his idea is and make it a good football decision.
Some people tend to go along, other appear to go along but in reality always seem to reach their agenda.
So I guess I'm at least temporarily off
the cranky bitch list? LOL Yeah, I go up and down on this stuff and it’s great fun. I just wish some competent adults would come in and do the right thing and take this opportunity to take what we’ve got – a helluva lot on this team – and just crank it forward.
Just a few good draft picks who lead by example along with our current studs could do the trick with the right scheme and coaching mentality. Methinks.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
by Scott E on Dec 18, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think that's more wishful than likely
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Yep
Let’s face it, some people moaned about VC but now that he’s gone they’re already moaning about the new person. People like that are impossible to satisfy.
People aren't allowed to be underwhelmed by Bruce Allen?
It’s not like we hired Bill Polian’s son or anything.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Who is to say that Allen will be the exact same GM here as he was in TB or OAK?
All of this history is great, but it really equates to jack shit. I doubt he will sit down and think “OK, this is how I did it in Tampa Bay, let me make this next decision as consistent as possible with my past moves.”
People change. People learn. Quit dooming this guy on his first full day on the job and give the guy some room to breathe. All this negative press is doing is putting pressure on him immediately. This is what we’ve got. Lets let him define his own damn legacy with this franchise.
Agreed
We are all haters. Thats what being beat down for so many years does, though.
off the subject….Was that the last home game in Jacksonville for the Jags???
by brettpedigo on Dec 18, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
who's to say
anybody is going to be the same as they have been anywhere else? So do you want to ignore people’s past? That’s silly.
Its also silly to say that we're doomed
because of this guy’s record in Tampa Bay, where his success or failure was very much dependent upon John Gruden and a host of other circumstances. I didn’t once say to ignore his past, but just as the disclaimer reads on stock trading information: “Past performance is not indicative of future results.” Washington is a completely different job than Tampa Bay. There will be different players, different coaches and different talent scouts. You’re a retard if you think that all of his draft results will be the same as they were.
hmmm
I’m not sure how we got on the opposite sides of this, maybe I replied to the wrong post, idk, but I agree with your post that said:
“All of this history is great, but it really equates to jack shit. I doubt he will sit down and think "OK, this is how I did it in Tampa Bay, let me make this next decision as consistent as possible with my past moves."
People change. People learn. Quit dooming this guy on his first full day on the job and give the guy some room to breathe. All this negative press is doing is putting pressure on him immediately. This is what we’ve got. Lets let him define his own damn legacy with this franchise.”
Let’s give him a chance!
Personel guy
The loathsome Jason La Canfora is reporting that the skins are actively searching for a personelle guy to round out the staff including Ozzie Newsome’s top guy. So basically the guy we would want as GM if Snyder would actually listen to him. I think Allen and the drafting will be fine and the extra people in the draft room(HC,Allen,New guy) can help nullify Snyder’s crazy ideas.
Snyder shouldn't be in the draft room.
He should be sitting in a chair in the hallway with the whatever round jersey in his hand, waiting for someone to come out and tell him who to give it to once he gets to the podium.
oh man that would be amazing
or apersonellepersonnel guy to round out the staff including Ozzie Newsome’s top guy
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Thanks smuts
I can’t spell before Noon. Anyways I think having a up and coming talent guy working under a GM who deals with the other crap might work best and allow the talent guy to concentrate on that side of the equation. Let’s hope it happens. The other candidates mentioned were some guy from Chicago we have looked at before and Doug Williams. Obviously the Baltimore guy Decosta(sp?!) is my first pick.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 18, 2009 1:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Doug Williams Thoughts
Doug might just be saying the right things just in case, you know…wink…but
I like hearing this about Allen the GM: In my book this is a GM
On his reputation as not being a personnel guy: “That’s hard for me to say because when we would meet during draft time or free agency time, we’d all give our opinion of what we though of players and in his position, his thing is that he didn’t have to give an opinion. He’d listen to what everyone else said and come to a conclusion. I find it hard to say he is or he’s not because it wasn’t like us listening to him as much as him listening to all the scouts.”
On if that’s what you want in his position: “That’s what he’s going to do. His job is to be a GM and he had the last word and when he and the coach get together to discuss whatever he wants, he gets all the information. I’m sure once he gets all the information, when you’re talking about a player that you like and you have three or four reports on him. So you listen to what everyone has to say and you put your two cents in and go from there. It’s not like you have to sit there and say what does Bruce think about it?”
Shanahan decision might stall...Jerry Jones is now talking...
http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/news/story?id=4754480&campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines
I can’t see any other choice but Shanahan for the Skins. 2 years for this team as WCO. Danny is the ultimate salesman….I don’t doubt he’ll pull it. My guess is $6-7 mil a year.
Yeah I tend to agree with the way the last coach search went
Gibbs surprised them late, making the search difficult.
Allen did say in his News Conference he “likes to get thing done now”
It would not surprise me if Shanahan is brought in before the end of the season.
What the Heck.....
is wrong with you people? Is everybody on here less than the age of 20? Shanahan’s teams get absolutely slaughtered by NFC East teams. Doesn’t anyone remember what we did to them in the Super Bowl? Or what everybody else did to them in the Super Bowl? The man coached Denver for 14 years and won two Super Bowl’s over 10 years ago! What the heck has he done recently?
And I brought this up in another post I’ll ask again, what kind of record of success do you think Allen brings to this team? someone said it in this post Tampa Bay was glad to get rid of him. Don’t talk to me about Super Bowl , that was Tony Dungy’s team.
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
What the heck...
does this have to do with Shanahan?
Doesn’t anyone remember what we did to them in the Super Bowl? Or what everybody else did to them in the Super Bowl?
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
you must be old
we naver faced a Shanahan Broncos team in the Super Bowl – that was Reeves.
Shanahan vs. the Redskins is 3-1. All 4 games were very close.
All Shanahan did in Denver was win 138 games while losing only 86. A pretty decent record and in those days the AFC West was a lot better than it is now.
46 actually, is that old?
if so, then Shanahan is ancient. It looks to me like all of you are getting excited because some named coach who won a Super Bowl X years ago is coming to Washington apparently.
At his age will be lucky if he last five years here. his teams have always been about small quick offensive lines utilizing zone blocking. For some reason he never seems to have a decent defensive coordinator working the other side of the ball. I said before I grew up in the bay area and watch the Raiders played Denver twice a year for many years,I still try to follow the Raiders and maybe that’s why I hate Denver so much. for much the same reason I couldn’t stand Norv Turner because he was a Cowboys coach.
oh well, I guess I can understand the attitude. Let’s just hire some has been, older coach, who had some success 10 years ago and was fired from his most recent job for mediocrity just because he has a name. Name dropper’s and brand chasers will fill FedEx field to capacity and buy $12 beers.
more of the same, just lovely!
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Dec 20, 2009 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
not so different, except the Raiders
I’m 45 and my AFC team is the Chiefs (my Grandpa was a Chiefs fan) and living in the midwest I’ve seen twice as many Broncos games as Redskins games even though the Redskins are my #1 team.
Ok we differ in that I hate the Raiders as only a Chiefs fan can, so we differ there but I also disliked Turner because he was a Cowboys coach, then I really disliked him when he replaced Marty in San Diego.
But I think your definition of mediocrity if way off. 138-86 is a great record and back then the AFC West wasn’t the joke it is now. Even the Raiders were good, as much as I hate to admit it.
I have concerns about Shanahan like his draft history (Maurice Clarret anyone) and his lack of success without Elway but I don’t think he’s the worst choice – another year of Zorn or promoting someone else way over his capabilities as Snyder/VC did with Zorn.
Personally I’m still hoping for Cowher, Fisher or even Grimm but I’d prefer Shanahan to Zorn year 3, Gruden or promoting another position coach.
What does a Dan Reeves Broncos team
have to do with Shanahan??
Oh, and since I mentioned this already, on Bruce Allen’s watch, the Raiders won their division for the first time in 10 years, and won it 3 years in a row, in fact, going 60-52. Since he left, they haven’t won more than 5 games in any season. Even when he was with Tampa, they won the division twice in 6 years on his watch.
Oh yeah…. and Allen wasn’t even the GM of Tampa when they won the Super Bowl, so that has nothing to do with anything, either.
Get your facts right, THEN come back and try bitching to us again.
"The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, 'I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it.'"
yeah Allen was smart enough to trade Gruden to the Bucs for draft picks
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 19, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
Haha! +1000
"The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, 'I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it.'"
Allen was smart...
enough to trade FOR Gruden is what you mean. So he does actually trade first and second round draft picks for a coach yet elsewhere he is praised for hanging on to his draft picks. Which is it?
You can label me the cynic, but this just looks like more of the same from the Dan man.
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Dec 20, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
No...
Allen was still the GM in Oakland when Gruden went from Oakland to TB. So Allen recieved the picks that TB gave up
Seriously
your not a cynic your just an asshole who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 20, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
Bullet...
who’s the A-hole? someone who can discuss and debate w/o resorting to name calling or someone who’s first reply to a new poster is to call them an asshole?
I was wrong, sorry to have pushed your buttons
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Dec 20, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
My mistake
I got confused as to who was there first.
The world looks mighty different when you're peeking out your belly button
by Skins Fan '77 on Dec 20, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe Danny is messin' with Jerry
Makes Jerry think he’s got a line on the best available HC (Shanny). Adds pressure to Wade Phillips which we all know he and the Cowboys have problems with. What if Jerry jumps the gun and makes an offer to Shanny and finds he has to pay 5mil more a year than what he pays Phillips? Just messin’ with Jerry sounds like fun.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
SNYDER HAS ALREADY DONE THE QB SCOUTING, SO NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT
PLEASE don’t assume Snyder will really back off and let this guy do his job. And PLEASE don’t assume that the hire was made simply because Allen is the best candidate for the job. Remember Danny Boy’s strength is M-A-R-K-E-T-I-N-G. Look for an attempt to hire Russ Grimm to bring another generation of good feeling back to the fans. Dan is banking on fans calming down and turning on the money spigot again. Buy those licensed items! Buy those club seats. We’ve got an Allen back in the fold!
Allen will obviously be an improvement over Vinny, who wouldn’t be hired my many teams as a scout. At least Allen has football operations experience. But if he’s on a short leash, not much will change.
by savetheskins.com on Dec 19, 2009 12:39 PM EST reply actions
i agree that a lot of this is about money- thats how fans vote. and the performance certainly does not back the size of the checks to be written next year. and i was definitely voting this year. and though he did not make the move i would have tried to make, i am happy he made a decision for change. and i look forward to see how things unfold. there is no reason to be pissy about anything. in fact, the nfc east is really not that good and with a little more balance (cutting the dead weight and quality starters at ALL positions), we could win the division next year! so give the guy and the negativity a break. he just earned it.
by les boulez bomber on Dec 19, 2009 6:42 PM EST reply actions
and i’d be hard pressed to find anyone more angry with dan over this klusterf
by les boulez bomber on Dec 19, 2009 6:43 PM EST reply actions
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