Pro/Con List to Help the Redskins Front Office Decide on Jason Campbell
by Kevin Ewoldt on Dec 15, 2009 12:05 PM EST
in Redskins Analysis
166 comments
Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato have a real problem right now: Jason Campbell is playing too good.
That final interception in the Saints game still stings, but it's clear Campbell provides the best chance for the Redskins to make the playoffs next year. Since Campbell is the most coveted free agent QB next year, doesn't that mean the spend-freely Redskins should automatically resign him? They always sign the best!!! Sigh.
Well, whoever is the QB next year has two glaring problems: there is no RT or LT. Chris Samuels is likely retiring and Stephon Heyer is not even close to holding up that right side. That means the Skins need to get TWO tackles in FA or the draft. Obviously, we'd all love to see a Tackle drafted with the first pick, but if they didn't, who is going to protect this QB? If the Redskins thought Rinehart, Heyer, and Mike Williams were good enough to play, then Levi Jones must be the second coming of Walter Jones. I do like Levi Jones and think he could hold down that left-side next year, but his play so far this year will attract a lot of teams. Tackles aside, I really question if Snyder has already decided to let JC walk. So, in the means of allowing Snyder to accurately assess the situation, I've decided to help the front office in their decision to cut/keep Campbell with this Pro/Con list. If there's any I have missed, please comment below and I'll add to the matrix.
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Pros |
Cons |
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- He can take a hit |
- Can't slide |
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- Person of character (Joe Gibbs always talked about) |
- Doesn't sell the # of jerseys a Clausen/McCoy would |
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- Passer rating this year: 90.0 |
- Misses open reads at times |
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- Has the players' full support |
- Ranked 5th with 33 most sacks (certainly the OLine takes some blame here) |
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- Tied for 8th in Compl% at 65.3 (with Tom Brady) |
- Has trouble winning games late in the 4th when the Skins are tied or down 1 score. |
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- Tied for 14th in passing TDs (17) with Carson Palmer |
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- Has never complained about playing behind the 2nd worst offensive line in the NFL...for 21 straight games |
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- Dates a beauty pageant queen |
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- Well established in the community |
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- Continued to play well despite losing his best pass blocker (Samuels) and favorite pass target (Cooley) |
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- Has never called out another player or coach despite the many bad losses |
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- Chooses to spend his off-season in Ashburn working with teammates |
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- Draftable QB valuations may be higher now that Locker has decided to stay in Washington for his last year |
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Of course there is also this likelihood: Jason's outstanding play will only increase the draft pick the Redskins would get from a team if he's a restricted free agent in an uncapped year. It's hard, if not impossible, to find quality tackles in the mid-late rounds. Please address the Oline for whatever QB comes in. Extend Jason now before he hits free agency.
0 recs |
166 comments
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Open Reads
The open reads one I don’t really get. Kurt Warner had all day on one pass last night and completely missed his slot WR who ran WIDE OPEN down the middle of the field.
It’s so hard to evaluate a QB with all the injuries this team has had, but with the limited players he has had…and the emergence of the young guns…he is still performing. I really don’t understand what goes through their minds.
"their minds." being Snyder and Cerrato
by Kevin Ewoldt on Dec 15, 2009 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
Are you questioning your own list?
I don’t get the open reads either. Every QB misses open receivers when facing pressure.
Also, Con: Draftable QB valuations may be higher now that Locker has decided to stay in Washington for his last year (and forgo the last year of ridiculous rookie salaries – doesn’t make sense).
I was more expanding than questioning...
Campbell has been running through his check-downs more now. Having more time certainly helps.
I added Locker to the list as Pro for Campbell.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Dec 15, 2009 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
Definitely
Anyone watching the game saw how Jason would scramble to his right and never take his eyes off the right side of the field. Meanwhile there were guys wide open in the middle of the field. Results of those plays? Incompletions.
Yeah, the open reads and 4th quarter stuff is a problem
Certainly, when Jason Campbell misses his receiver, he misses by a mile, which is what makes so many people think that he’s not accurate. He actually does have good stats for long passes (15th right now in passes of 20 or more yards, despite rarely having enough time to let plays like that really develop), but folks see him overthrow a guy 30 yards downfield by throwing the ball 35 yards and they start saying that he can’t throw the long ball. That’s not true — it’s just when he misses, it’s by a lot.
I say keep him. Of course, I’ve been saying that all year, and a month ago, it would have been simple to keep him — no one else wanted him. Now, there’s going to be some competition. What the Redskins management needs to realize (if they do decide to try to keep him) is that, of all the teams looking for a new starting QB, this one is probably JC’s best option — good players, good chance of turning things around, already knows the system (unless there’s a change there). So they need to try to sell JC on that and get him to take an offer that doesn’t strap us for cash over the next 4-5 years. This team has a history of overspending on players — even the guys who play well and contribute to playoff runs are still being paid more than they should be. Let’s not even discuss the guys who have been paid billions to do nothing.
"One-on-one? You can't." -Gilbert Arenas
JC Bandwagon all day!
was that a Brandon Lloyd dig?
Let’s not even discuss the guys who have been paid billions to do nothing.
SpotieOtieDopalicious
I am awesome, so was Arch. We just weren’t given a fair chance. I could have been the next jerry rice
by BrandonLloyd on Dec 15, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
If he's extended now, eliminate the possibility of another team giving up draft picks
2010 has to be looked at as an uncapped year. The owners are not interested in a cap being in place and it provides an opportunity for most to reset.
If our thinking starts with 2010 being an uncapped year, then Jason Campbell is a Restricted Free Agent, placing the Redskins in a power of position on negotiations in the off season.
A simple tender of 1.01M offer provideds the original team the First Refusal Right if the team tenders a contract offer, Redskins can match and keep Campbell.
However the Redskins can tender him more, which makes compensation even higher by the signing team:
The player’s original team maintains the Right of First Refusal and Draft Selection at the Player’s Original Draft Round (from the team with which he signs) if the team tenders an offer of one year at the same amount(s) listed above OR at least 110% of the player’s prior year’s salary — whichever is greater.
The player’s original team maintains the Right of First Refusal and Second Round Draft Selection (from the team with which he signs) if the team tenders an offer of one year at $$1.545 million OR at least 110% of the player’s prior year’s salary — whichever is greater.
The player’s original team maintains the Right of First Refusal and First Round Draft Selection (from the team with which he signs) if the team tenders an offer of one year at $2.198 million OR at least 110% of the player’s prior year’s salary — whichever is greater.
The player’s original team maintains the Right of First Refusal and First Round Draft Selection and Third Round Draft Selection (both from the team with which he signs) if the team tenders an offer of one year at $2.792 million OR at least 110% of the player’s prior year’s salary — whichever is greater.
Either Campbell remains a Redskin at a relative cheap price or Redskins match another teams offer or the Redskins are well compensated with additional Draft Picks. Either way by doing nothing until after the season the Redskins are in the driver seat as far as Campbell and Rogers are concerned for 2010 and an uncapped year.
jason campbell will make more than 1.5 mm next yr. forget that dream
QB are the most imp person on a team and the only one worth spending big $$$ on (sorry AH) because they are the only player you can guarantee can have role on every play for his side of the ball- plus there are additional rules that favor keeping him injury free
by les boulez bomber on Dec 15, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Good stuff
I question how pissed JC would be if he got a low-ball tender. He’s worth more than $2 mil a year.
I can’t see any team giving up a #1 for him though, so that means JC would likely be stuck in DC when all these other teams would be out there. At that point things could get real messy.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Dec 15, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
But he couldn't play poorly to spite the FO next year
because it would essentially be another contract year
teams can negotiate
any trade they like. But there is no way Campbell isn’t getting the top tender allowable.
We need to draft a T with our no.1 and get a RB in the top 4 rounds. Re-sign Jason. Sign a FS, move Laron to SS. Sign a starting LB, put Orakpo at DE. Cut portis, randle el, possibly griffin.
That is probably in order of importance as well.
If someone signs Campbell to a big contract
and we get a 1st and 3rd round pick, then our FO look like geniuses. Campbell gives us the best chance for the playoffs next year, but if Dan and Vinny spin next year to be a rebuilding year, then an extra 1st and 3rd round pick would really help their case. Its all part of Vinny’s plan to keep his death grip on our testes and milk this gig for all he can.
On the other hand, if a team signs Rogers and we get those picks, then we all rejoice— but obviously that isn’t going to happen. Rogers will have to settle for our tender.
FO look like geniuses
After 10 years of this I’d be shocked if they pulled this off AND drafted winners.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Dec 15, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
I'd be shocked if they drafted winners as well.
They have no success drafting QBs in the first round. Campbell was a 1st rounder, yes, but he was Gibbs’ choice, not Vinny’s. So to make this work, they’d have to successfully draft an OT and a QB in the first. The OT will be a no-brainer like the Orakpo pick was last April. I fully expect whatever QB they would draft to fail miserably, however.
See my fan post for why Jason will be here next year
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
interesting analysis..but your write up nailed it squarely. we cant afford to draft a qb because the one we have is good enuff (at a min, and tough)….AND WE ARE MISSING HALF OUR OFFENSIVE LINE (center is old too, so is right guard. the rest of the line are basically backups)
we won four games with this team this year…and capped at 6 wins. but i am watching them play. if they grab a new rookie qb- which will all but guarantee they do not fix the line fully- i wont even watch them next year.
it is even debatable whether i will even care next year if vinny is still there. this is torture
by les boulez bomber on Dec 15, 2009 12:47 PM EST reply actions
unfortunately, there are about 4 teams that need a QB, two college QBs people like early, and it only takes one team.
by les boulez bomber on Dec 15, 2009 12:56 PM EST reply actions
Interests:
Clausen
Bradford
McCoy
Tebow
(space intended)
Interested:
Rams
Browns
Redskins
Bills
Seahawks
49’ers
Panthers
Vikings
Jacksonville
yes- but rams, browns and oakland NEED qbs. the others have interest
tebow is a flyer for a winning team later in the first or later well- a disaster for us
by les boulez bomber on Dec 15, 2009 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
Browns have more pressing concerns
Brady has shown enough of late. Oakland will be scared off by the $ they still owe Russell. Rams, Seahawks, Panthers are our competition. Rams will get their choice, carolina has no 1st rounder, and the seahawks will likely pick after us.
Is there any, you know, statistical proof of this?
- Has trouble winning games late in the 4th when the Skins are tied or down 1 score.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Yes...from the Bog
I chose to look at the 16 games in which Campbell and his offense received the ball with less than six minutes remaining, in a one-possession or tied game. I disregarded time-stopping spikes (not counting them as incompletions), and disregarded possessions that began with virtually no time remaining….In total, he’s 44-82 for 584 yards, with those two touchdowns, those four interceptions, and a 64.3 quarterback rating. The Redskins are 4-12 in those 16 games.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2009/12/is_jason_campbell_un-clutch.html
by Kevin Ewoldt on Dec 15, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
whatever
for one, he’s a self admitted hater of JC’s.
Let me get the whole picture from the football outsiders, THEN I’ll be more interested in what’s going on. There is a lot more going on than the simple metrics he uses.
SpotieOtieDopalicious
Great post !! REKA
Some JC hates will always hate even if now they are not crazy enough to ca;; JC a bum now like earlier in the seaon.
by LETJASONPASS on Dec 15, 2009 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
If we let Jason walk this offseason
are you going to become a fan of another team or assume a new name and continue posting here?
I have been a redskin fan for over 30 years . I am not going anywhere.
But I will become a fan of whatever team Jason campbell is on as well.
by LETJASONPASS on Dec 15, 2009 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
I'll always be a Redskins fan, never doubt that
but wherever he goes, I will watch closely because I do wish him all the success he deserves after the shitstorm he’s been through here.
SpotieOtieDopalicious
Next to
Fletcher
Rock
McIntosh
HB Blades
Wynn
Daniels
Carter
The team is flled with classy players, Jason is just one of them.
None of those guys take the heat like JC does
not to say those dudes aren’t class acts but JC has handled all the BS thrown at him better than anyone could ever ask for.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 15, 2009 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
Don't worry Bay dr. WNC will....
never give jason credit for anything
by LETJASONPASS on Dec 15, 2009 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
Jason is a first round QB
Selected by one of the best coaches and is in the same mold as Rypien.
He could QB a team to the Superbowl
He will not lead a team to the Superbowl or lead the team to a win.
Consistently the same point, always
JC17
Never been a JC17 hater, He can be a capable QB and a sucess in the league. He should be signed to remain a Redskin, however what the Front office does is another thing. The point is that Jason has not to this point in his career established himself as a QB who can lead a team on a winning drive at the end of the game.
As written at CSN:
Finally, if he finishes with his current quarterback rating of 86.1 he would beat his 2008 career best rating of 84.3. That statistic takes all of the major passing stats and plugs them into a formula that compares them to historical standards.
But Campbell is less than the sum of his stats. Compare him to Carson Palmer of the Bengals. Palmer is just above Campbell in quarterback rating with an 87.2. They have completed exactly the same number of passes, 192. Campbell has a better completion percentage (66.0 to 61.5) and yards per attempt (7.3 to 7.1) while Palmer has the edge in touchdowns (14-10) and interceptions (8-9).But if you ask anyone who is having the better season, it’s Palmer and it’s not even close. It’s not just that the Bengals are 7-3; it’s how they have reached that mark. Twice this season the Bengals trailed in the late going, but Palmer led a drive to steal a win. In Week 3 Cincinnati trailed Pittsburgh 20-15 until Palmer led a 16-play drive to score the winning points with 18 seconds left. Two weeks later, the Bengals trailed Baltimore 14-10 until Palmer engineered a game-winning, 80-yard TD drive with 22 seconds remaining.
Until Campbell creates some signature moments out on the field, he will continue to be considered a quarterback who has not yet arrived, regardless of how impressive his statistics may be.
I hate this term
Until Campbell creates some signature moments out on the field
It was used for years to badmouth Art Monk. “signature moments” just means “opposite of statistical analysis”
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
No, but REAL stats go a long way
“being a winner” doesn’t go past the front door.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
so did u purposefully ignore these last THREE games, arguably his best stretch? dude- what r u in kindergarten or politics ???
and palmer had to drop a bit since cin lost 2 of the past 3 (i believe)
by les boulez bomber on Dec 15, 2009 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
Did he take into account
the number of times Campbell put us ahead only to have our defense give the lead right back? Because I know that has happened 3-4 times minimum.
Hey, I have already explained this to him on other posts.
When we played New Orleans, JC had so many people trying to loose the game for us. This applies to our old kicker , Landry getting burned for 2 td’s,Fred Smooth playing loose coverage, Mike Sellers fumble and Kareem Moore and his interception/ strip return for a TD. But he will tell you that Jason did not win that game for us he lost it ??? Wht are some of these people looking at ??
by LETJASONPASS on Dec 16, 2009 6:40 AM EST up reply actions
u mean when the other team knows we have to pass the ball and they blitz every play and our line collapses all around him consistently
by les boulez bomber on Dec 15, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
alos we are limited om the passes and plays that we can run because Jim Zorn just blew time outs earlier in the half ..
Like I posted earlier this season more than once a good caoch is worrh alot in key situations. Jason has needed help form the coach and players. We are the Washington Redskins not the Jasonskins. Zorn blowing time outs does not help JC out at all. Kind of limits were he can throw the ball at the end of the game.
by LETJASONPASS on Dec 15, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
Not a finisher
This is my biggest complaint with JC. He can’t finish the game. He negated his entire awesome performance against the Saints in one drive. We need a QB (well…a whole team) that will play well for 60 minutes. Why did we win against Oakland? We got the early lead and we didn’t need JC to come through in the clutch. He had no pressure in the last two minutes to complete the drive or risk losing. I called it immediately when we got the ball to try to win against the Saints. Everyone said ‘have faith’, but the numbers don’t lie. I’m not a JC hater, and I’m certainly not blaming any losses on him alone, but he’s not a pressure player. Unfortunately, the Redskins rarely put themselves in no-pressure positions.
watch out RFKate28
reasoned analysis like that, which allows that Jason has some things that are lacking in his game will lead to a torrent of LETJASONPASS POSTS< blaming every single failed last minute drive of Campbells on other players, you know them other guys who play for the team we all support but arent worthy of LJP’s support
Oh and also, even though you make it clear you see many positive sides to Jasons game, that will be irrelevant, you are now in LJP’s eyes a Campbell Hater
Just warning you of whats coming
Pommylee
Hey, Pommkin head what about blaming Zorn.
Zorn only calls plays during our two-minute offense and that is the only part that is going backwards ?? LOL
by LETJASONPASS on Dec 19, 2009 8:24 AM EST up reply actions
I stopped reading after this:
He negated his entire awesome performance against the Saints in one drive.
One play. One game. This is not ‘evidence’.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Pomm, never has evidence just BS statements...
But because Pomm said it makes it fact…
by LETJASONPASS on Dec 19, 2009 8:25 AM EST up reply actions
Pro
He may not be Michael Vick but he can make the occasional play with his legs and (at least IMO) has made some big strides in extending plays even when his protection collapses. I’ve been on JC’s side all year so of course I think we should hold onto him.
Not to try and call people out on it but what happened to all that talk of Colt Brennan? Maybe he could move up to backup. My point is we already have an adequate starter and a young backup (even if he disappointed in the preseason and is on IR). Drafting a new one would just be a waste.
I said this yesterday but if I was doing the draft picks I’d do LT with the first rounder then look at guards and maybe a center. O-line definitely needs the most attention but I think we also could use more depth in the secondary and even in the CB/FS department. In the interest of doing something there I’d accept Heyer at RT for another year. He’s still relatively young and who knows; sometimes I think his development may have been slowed by having to play out of position so much. Not that I think he’s the permanent answer but I think the other O line needs are more immediate.
Colt...
Colt looked really bad in pre-season. It’s too early to label him bust…but it’s too early to label him as a reliable #2 as well.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Dec 15, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
I definitely wouldn't want him as a backup as of now either
I was more talking in terms of I don’t see the point in drafting a new qb when the jury is still out on the young one we have. That is of course unless they’re dumb enough to think they’re going to draft someone able to start immediately (which they are).
by SkinsOsTerps on Dec 16, 2009 8:51 AM EST up reply actions
Woah!
we don’t say that name around here during the season. We will get more than enough of it later on, trust me.
SpotieOtieDopalicious
They are silent now. But they are some of the same people that say Jason can not win a game .....
for us.
by LETJASONPASS on Dec 15, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Jason cannot win a game us
Said:
Actually, it shoudl be noted
Jason has not shown the ability to complete the final drive for the Redskins to win in the 4th qtr.
He has shown the ability before
just every time he scores and puts us up the defense folds. Rams and Niners last year and multiple games this year JC has put us ahead in the 4th only to have the defense fold when asked to make one last stop. Basically he has to score a winning TD with no time left to get credit seemingly.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 15, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
but but but
it’s Jason’s fault the defense collapses!
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
that's all well and good
were these metrics used when that article was written in that post article?
SpotieOtieDopalicious
Apparently, Joe Flacco is better than Campbell...
I live in Baltimore and have to CONSTANTLY hear from these Ravens fans stuck in 2000 that Campbell is horrible and can’t win a game for us and how Baltimore is so much better because they have a young stud in Joe Flacco. Flacco’s numbers were marginal at best last year: somewhere around 2500 yards and 14 tds 12 ints, but Flacco has led his team on game winning drives. It’s amazing how quickly people are to judge a QB based on which team scores last…Baltimorons…
Ask them if it makes any difference
that BAL has one of the best offensive lines and we have one of the worst.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
They couldn't care less...
“Oher’s a rookie from late in the 1st round!!”…“we make crucial personnel and draft decisions!!”…“Troy Smith is better than Campbell”…and, like some people on this site that will remain nameless, only talk subjectively and can not bring up any substantial stats besides our record…
well, this part is true:
we make crucial personnel and draft decisions!!"…
Ozzie Newsome might be the best GM in the league.
Snyderrato, not so much.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
like not giving Flacco any WRs to throw to or over-paying to keep an old Ray Lewis while letting the younger guys walk? Seems like they have issues like everyone else.
You're fudging the issue
Of course every team has issues, but it’s a matter of degree.
Newsome has built a consistent winner for going on almost 8 years now.
They’ve retooled that defense a number of times and still remain on top. Same with their offensive line.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
Mason
If Derrick Mason didn’t unretire for them, they would be in big trouble. They addressed the OL, but ignored the WR position. Teams are now taking away Mason and there is no one else….3tds and 6ints the last 6 games behind a great OL is a legit issue. They did draft a WR in the first round (Clayton), but he is a bust…so I cant agree that Newsome is the best GM in the league. He is good, but not the best IMO.
The Ravens were
5-11 in 2007 after going 13-3 in 2006. But, I will give the Ravens that a superior offensive line will do wonders for a quarterback. Joe Flacco is built in the same mold as Jason Campbell – tall, great legs, not too accurate throwing past 20 yards and likes to resort to dumpoffs in the flat and middle of the zone to the backs…but Flacco is able to have more time for his reads and allow players like Mason and Kelley Washington to get downfield in space because he has a line that keeps him upright. Can anyone honestly tell me that if Campbell and Flacco switched teams right now he wouldn’t be more prized and successful??
Good post ask Pommylee...
He is the number 1 JC blamer..
by LETJASONPASS on Dec 19, 2009 8:30 AM EST up reply actions
Underrated and Underused part of JC17's game under Zorn IMHO
He may not be Michael Vick but he can make the occasional play with his legs
With the physical battering he has copped this year, JC shows he can take the hits on the run too, so he shouldnt be in Cotton Wool, I really would like some plays DESIGNED for Jason to Run, not just see Jason Run when the play collapses
Pommylee
I agree
he should be encouraged to run AT LEAST once earlier in the game (he seems to run only late in games for the entire first half of this season). His legs are valuable. A potential snag though is he doesn’t seem to throw well on the move, often throwing behind his WRs and such.
DAN SNYDER, UNCAPPED
The ONLY good thing about Dan Snyder is his willingness to pull out his checkbook. Remember, however, WE are paying for it (in oh so many ways). No, an uncapped year means Dan can spend more on big names who won’t produce, annoy the journeymen in the locker room and generally contribute to another dismal (but heavily promoted) season!
by savetheskins.com on Dec 15, 2009 1:49 PM EST reply actions
So does that mean we could sign alot of good players next year
but the price of a beer at FedEx will go up?
That’s a tough one, hmmm….
we can't sign anyone good
The FA pool is abysmal if we have an uncapped year as all the guys coming of rookie contracts(the best FA) become restricted instead of unrestricted FA’s.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 15, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
Dan Snyder, Intelligently Uncapped
As I’ve said before, for this team the magic of the uncapped season isn’t the ability to sign free agents (although they did nimbly avoid the signing limitations imposed on playoff teams, didn’t they?). But the ability to dump bad contracts is KEY. Signing bonuses are pro-rated throughout the contract for signing purposes – that’s why contracts usually have a couple of extra huge $$ years at the end; it gives the player and agent something to brag about, but really they are there to amortize the signing bonus (the only guaranteed money in the contract). Dumping a player means having to take the hit for the entire remaining value on that contract in a particular year. Dead money for ghost players – a ’Skins specialty!
But now? Dump the contract at the right time, and the bonus $$ accelerate … into an uncapped year. From a SalCap standpoint, it’s a “get out of jail free” card. Which is why losing CP, ARE, and Samuels (if he retires) won’t kill the team if they time this right.
And yes, I’m being ironic with the title … sigh
Very well said.
Since you seem to have a good handle on this cap stuff, how does it work when a player retires? Does he still count against the cap?
good question
been wondering this myself
SpotieOtieDopalicious
yeah I have been saying all year
It’s time for Snyder to finally put his money to good use and lose some bad contracts when we have the rare opportunity.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 15, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
NFL contracts aren't guaranteed
so I’m pretty sure if he retires we would only owe him whatever signing bonus money he is still owed. I don’t know if that would count against our cap though.
Also, it does suck about the rookie contract guys, but imagine how many players are going to be released in order for a team to get out from under a monstrous deal. So don’t worry about Danny having enough FAs to target.
so your saying
a pool of under-productive castoffs equates to losing a whole draft class of players just entering their prime? Then again Danny loves his big name over the hill FA’s.
by BayAreaBullet on Dec 16, 2009 2:04 AM EST up reply actions
Depends on when the retirement/cut occurs
June 1 is the magic date. If the cut/retirement occurs before June 1, then the bonuses accelerate into the current season. If the cut/retirement occurs on or after June1, then the cap figure for the current season is unchanged, but the balance of the bonuses is still counted against the next season’s cap.
Pros and Cons
I think the 2nd con is THE most important factor in Snyder’s quest to get rid of Campbell. It is all about marketing.
Smart move is tendering and keeping JC
for atleast one year and not drafting a QB in the first round. Petulant Snyder move(also a favorite move of Snyder’s critics ironically) is to let him go and draft a first round qb and give him haynesworth money.
where did they get this extra 1st round draft pick to draft Clausen after we used our original one to draft LT?
SpotieOtieDopalicious
by Rekka on Dec 15, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He never said
campbell signed with us. Perhaps we get a teams 1st rounder in losing Jason and we get our LT AND Claussen.
I love JC17
I’m gonna support him the whole time he’s in the league, but anyone that thinks we’re going to get a first rounder for him is taking hits from the crack pipe.
SpotieOtieDopalicious
My thoughts would be that we created a QB controversy
without addressing the root cause of our QB problems: lack of protection.
I expect this to be a consensus. Lets get an “Amen” going.
But they got Mike Williams!!!
Joking aside, my guess is they would “fix” the Oline problem via free agency if they went QB 1st round. Even as dumb as their mistakes have been, they’re not going to put a $41 golden arm out there with the same protection Campbell is getting.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Dec 15, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
Would those free agent olinemen
still be UFAs in an uncapped year, or will they become RFAs like our free agents will? If they become RFAs, then it would impossible for us to fix our OL in free agency.
yea, good point...I'm not 100% sure
Most teams rarely let good tackles get away….so, as we all know, drafting one is the only viable option.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Dec 15, 2009 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
I can think of two people who don't know this
so, as we all know, drafting one is the only viable option.
Hogs Haven Laugh of the Day
SpotieOtieDopalicious
hold on
one of he names floating around these parts lately has been Marcus McNeil, 2nd Round pick for the Chargers plays LT for them. He was drafted in 2006. Will he even be eligible as an UFA in the offseason if there’s an uncapped year?
SpotieOtieDopalicious
No
Not unless the Chargers f’d up his contract. To be an UFA, you would need six years of service – he has four. Campbell (and Carlos Rogers) have five, and would still be RFA in an uncapped year.
Interestingly, McNeil and Campbell both came out of Auburn one year apart, so they should know each other.
Don't forget the "Franchise Player" Option
Even if a player is an UFA, a team could still franchise a stud OT. And the usual problem with franchising (maximum cap hit) is irrelevent because … no cap!
Depends on length of serive at their present club
whatever the rule is for RFA’s at the moment, you add one year to it.
So if the minimum time served before you can currently franchise tag a player is 5 years, in an Uncapped Year it is then 6 years for RFA to be applied, or something like that.
Pommylee
I think it’s 4 in a capped year, 6 in an uncapped year. Also, the top 5 teams in the leage can only sign 1 free agent for each free agent they lose (in an uncapped year). There’s a few more new rules that apply, Jason La Confora goes over them in one of the Fanshots.
thats probably it
The way to remember it (for me anyway) is that the extra year before becoming unrestricted is something the players had to give up at the last negotiations, to encourage them to reach a deal (otherwise an uncapped year is all the players favour)
so assuming that Veteran Players will be running the agenda of the Players Union the last CBA had an agreement that if a new agreement isn’t signed, players are tied to their club as a RFA for one extra year before becoming eligible for Free Agency, thus giving Veteran Players an incentive to push for a deal so they can become FA’s earlier and cash in on some Snyder or Jerry Jones money (sad but true, thats how the players prolly think, remember when sportsmen cared about Championships, but I digress)
Pommylee
You Joke but Mike Williams is being setup as the Answer at RG:
Redskin Insider, is feeding on the inside information that Mike Williams is a “Guard”
Mike Williams finds a home at right guard
Well, the experiment has been more successful than anyone could have envisioned. Williams has been very good at drive blocking on rushes and has fared better in helping to protect quarterback Jason Campbell.
“It’s hard to move Big Mike out of there,” Campbell said. “And when he gets moving, he’s bringing a lot with him.”
Rinehart comes back from IR as the backup, and Vinny now has RG taken care of
Samuels retires and Jones is resigned as Left Tackle
Dock still at left guard
Rabach resigned at center, with Williams the backup
And now Vinny just needs to draft one tackle—- Which he can blow off to the later rounds…QB and RB in 1st and 2nd rounds…! The Dan and Vinny show…continues
The Rams released Richie Incognito today
what do you think the odds are that Danny and Vinny have their jet in St. Louis to pick him up on his way out of the door?
Only half kidding….. unfortunately…
He fits the profile that the Redskins are looking for: player who is looking for a 2nd chance. Levi Jones, Mike Williams, DeAngelo Hall…the list goes on and on.
by killianskid34 on Dec 15, 2009 8:48 PM EST up reply actions
You give them too much credit
Even as dumb as their mistakes have been, they’re not going to put a $41 golden arm out there with the same protection Campbell is getting.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
$41mm…is that what they would get ??? NOT ONE of those college QBs are worth that—-especially since Jason could easily be signed for under $20mm….and i am stretching on purpose!
we really would have to consider why on earth Jason would even want to resign here. I know what he said, but he has only said the right things. I would not blame the guy at all if he tried to sign a 10 year, 30mm contract just to put the skins in cap hell if they tried to sign him to dump him.
by les boulez bomber on Dec 15, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
J. Russell got 6/61mm
so who knows. and 10years/30 million would be a steal for the skins. 3m a year for a QB is peanuts, same amount we are paying Todd Collins
KEEP JC !!!!
We need to keep JC and add some quality linemen through the draft, keep the current receivers,running backs and defense as well, not to mention keep Zorn….if they can just get their heads out of their asses and address the line like it should have been years ago,while keeping the rest,we just may well see another Super Bowlat long last!!! HAIL TO THE REDSDKINS!!!
Timothy W. Brown
by Diehardskinsfan on Dec 15, 2009 3:58 PM EST reply actions
colt brennen
ok i like JC alot and i mean alot. but at the same time ive been watching colt and yes i know its still real early but ive watch video of him in his college years. he has a hell of an arm. i think we keep JC next year and let colt be number 2. i got his jersey like at the start of the season and everying is like that is really nice. it seems like no one give colt a chance. im just saying i think he is gonna be good. give him a front line and he has a rocket are and runs like hell. and is gonna be cheap. Lets go skins
by Redskins fan forever on Dec 15, 2009 5:17 PM EST reply actions
The Cult of Colt is back Oh no !!
Now becasue you have a Cot jersey he is supposed to be our QB ?? Maybe you missed it but Chase is a better QB than Colt is !!
by LETJASONPASS on Dec 15, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
F*CK!
see what you did Carver!!!
SpotieOtieDopalicious
Colt was a product of the system...
just like Graham Harrel was at Texas Tech – pass happy, 5 receiver spread sets where AT LEAST one receiver will be open…and it didn’t hurt that Colt had Dolphins Davone Bess and Graham had Michael Crabtree. Ironically, I liked Graham MUCH better than Colt in the preseason…we cut him and he the Saints scooped him up immediately. Why did we enter the season with only 2 available QB’s again?
well listened to "da professor" on ESPN
Clayton believes that JC is gone, either as a FA or as a tendered RFA. Although if tendered, then the ball is back in Jason’s court to decide. Remember, while he’s played well in the last four games, only one was a victory. I think that you would be hard pressed to lay the loss for the Pokes and the Saints game at his feet though. Still it will be interesting to see how it plays out. Other boards have mentioned rumblings that Vicenzo may be slotted out of the decision making loop and it remains to be seen if The Danny drops the dime on Zorn or not or even how the coaching staff will look depending upon who gets retained and who walks. So I wouldn’t consider JC gone just yet, it’s more likely to be a soap opera until after the SB and then we’ll have to wait and see what happens. Could JC increase his opportunity for a tender by winning two of three? I think so, because just like us, The Danny LOVES beating The Jerruh.
I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused....
i hope they run the table
wilbon had some interesting comments in his chat transcript yesterday. basically thinks both JC and Zorn is gone. And Vinny is just a puppet. It is Dan making all these decisions. No surprise there, but he is closer to the source.
Regardless, I think Dan drops JC simply because JC makes him look bad. IE, Dan is a jerk and JC represents class. Insecure elfs like Dan Snyder always do stuff like that.
by les boulez bomber on Dec 15, 2009 5:43 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
- Can't slide
I do cringe every time he runs the ball.
He gets some good gains, but he has to figure out how to slide.
PRO'S/CONS
PRO: Nice deep ball
Con: ALWAYS OVER THROWN
CON: HOLDS ON THE BALL WAAAAAAAAYYY TO LONG
I made this point earlier to back someone else up
But I think you should add to the Pro’s Column
’Can Make Plays with his feet"
Pommylee
Charley Casserly was on WaPost Live today
He made a good point that he thinks Vinny will be back this year…otherwise Snyder wouldn’t be flying Vinny with him all over the country recruiting QBs
vinny will be back next year- 95%
GMs are being signed right now…colts just promoted theirs (the guy we really should have gone all out to get) and holmgren is interviewing with buff and cle
by les boulez bomber on Dec 15, 2009 10:59 PM EST reply actions
I think this one's pretty critical-- has anyone mentioned...
that re-signing JC would certainly cost much less than a high first round QB??
I hate Campbell. He might very well have great character but he is not a leader. His body language speaks volumes. His completion % is so high bc he is scared to make the tough throws down field so he opts for the check down. He consistently chokes with the game on the line. He could develop into a great qb if given the right situation. However that situation is not with us. He needs to pack his bags and take Zorn, Cerrato, and Landry with him.
Too safe? Come on!
So you’d rather have had someone like Cutler who has thrown the most INTs in Chicago in 60 years, and has led them to one more win than the Redskins this year. But he gets it down field, you say? Yeah, at was cost?
No thanks.
by killianskid34 on Dec 16, 2009 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
I honestly think
our defense would have killed Cutler if he would have been brought here and throwing all those pickles.
SpotieOtieDopalicious
Great poker quote is
It is better to win a bunch of small pots than to lose one big one…same as in football – look at Steve Young…
How could we not stick with Campbell?
Take a look at his career stats and you will see that they have been getting since his rookie year.
YEAR G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD INT RAT
2006 7 110 207 53.1 1297 6.3 10 6 76.5
2007 13 250 417 60.0 2700 6.5 12 11 77.6
2008 16 315 506 62.3 3245 6.4 13 6 84.3
2009 13 260 398 65.3 2946 7.4 17 12 89.0
Completion % and QB rating have been getting better every year. He doesn’t throw a lot of INTs. He already has his highest TD total despite having fewer attempts then either of the last 2 years. He’s on pace for over 3500 yards.
If the Redskins knew they could sign a QB for next year who throws for 3500-4000 yards, 20+ TDs, complets +65%, and has a QB in the 90s, they would sign that guy in a heartbeat.
Well that guys is already on our team and we’d be crazy to let him go.
Not every team has a classic “franchise” QB because there just aren’t a lot of them. Should we draft a QB and hope he becomes one of those guys? Here’s a list of name: Russell, Quinn, Leinart, Smith, Lossman, Leftwich, Boeller, Grossman. These are all QBS who have been drafted since ’03 who have either been total busts or who have not been as productive as Jason Campbell. What if we draft a QB and he becomes one of those guys? Could we get the next Peyton Manning? Of course but does everyone remember Heath Shuller?
Oh snap
+1
This right here has silenced all the JC17 haters out there…you know who you are. No one should be poppin off at the mouth that Campbell is not productive and loses games on the final drive – the rest of the team shouldn’t let it get to that point when he’s playing more than adequately for 55 minutes…
JC
to say he cant wins games in the 4rth is wrong the defense doesnt finish games!! we are supposed to have one of the better defenses in the league,yet our last 3 losses we had leads late in the 4rth with our defense on the field,which by the way if that is your so called strength of your team ,is what u would want on the field and they couldnt hold any of those leads! dallas,philly and the saintmour defense couldnt hold any of those leads,plus a short fg miss,i put no little to no n blame on nc for thoses losses! he should be resigned and skins need to draft offensive linemen throughout this draft!
by the fantasy king on Dec 16, 2009 10:58 AM EST reply actions
The Skins defense only gave up 7 points to Dallas @ Dallas
I have to fault the offense 100% on that game.
by Kevin Ewoldt on Dec 16, 2009 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
jason campbell
JASON playing good what games are you watching. I love my redskins and have for over forty years. But things have to change. Start off with getting rid of the dead weight and over payed people.Like last night why fight redskins your getting your asses kicked around all night long. A high school The team needs a over haul of everything. Some players should tell the coaches I suck and heres my jersey and walk away, taking money for playing like that. What a shame
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