Redskins @ Falcons: Offensive Line Chart
by KevinE on Nov 4, 2009 12:50 PM EST
in Analysis
64 comments
NFL.com recently added 'Offensive Line' to their statistics, and it reveals an intricate look into each team's running game and pass protection. Not surprisingly, the Redskins have allowed a 30th ranked 23 sacks, while the Falcons boast the 2nd best pass protection with a puny 6 sacks allowed. The Falcons offense will be the most difficult test for Andre Carter, Griff, Haynesworth, and Orakpo to date, so we'll see how the Redskins D matches up with a top-tier O-line.
Moving on to rushing, who would have guessed the Redskins have a higher rushing average at 3.9 yards per carry over the Falcons' 3.6 average? It's a little skewed since Matt Ryan is averaging 1.6 a carry while Campbell is averaging 4.3 per run.
What gives the Redskins some hope this week is that over 3/4 of the Falcons rushing first downs come up the middle or to the right side, the strongest part of the Redskins defense.
Redskins' Game Plan Predictions:
- Offensive line: The Skins take the new play-calling scheme and shoddy line on the road to a dome, which will be deafening for the Guards. If Heyer is slow to get into position to begin with, how is this going to work when he loses a half second of his first step to crowd noise? To account for this, John Abraham will be seeing a lot of double teams, most likely with Portis chipping. The way Heyer has been getting beat, Portis will probably be taking on Abraham at full-speed at least once. All focus should be on keeping Campbell's blind side safe, if the Falcons find another way, then have a plan to adjust.
- Tony Gonzalez: Who is going to cover him? Orakpo is still learning on the job, and Tony Gonzalez will absolutely shred him with his routes. The obvious solution is getting to Matt Ryan. If he has time, there are simply too many weapons for him to throw to. The Falcons don't have that bruising back like Stephen Jackson and Brandon Jacobs, so perhaps for this game, Blache moves Orakpo to his natural DE position full-time. This will also help keep Michael Turner from getting outside.
- Motivation: Clinton Portis blogged today:
"Forget about what we've been through that's put us in a 2-5 hole...Everybody in the NFL has talent, what we need is the motivation. We have to look at the season one game at a time instead of the big picture."
It seems obvious, but it's true. If the Skins come in focused and avoid the mistakes that kill them every game (dropped balls, lazy tackling, missed blocks), then they can keep the game close, which is the most we can ask for against an opponent that has won a game previously.
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What about CP et al ...
getting a fat-ass paycheck every week, win or lose, do they not understand about motivation?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
by Scott E on Nov 4, 2009 12:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well, a lot of players stop trying once they get paid..
I don’t think anyone can argue Portis gives it all every down on every snap he’s been a Redskin (the falling down in the open field aside).
He is one of the leaders on the team…if he quits, a lot of others would too.
by KevinE on Nov 4, 2009 12:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I would rather see more
rah rah type emotion out of him then some of these strange statements we hear as of late.
Forget about what we’ve been through that’s put us in a 2-5 hole.
Well….you (CP) maybe…but I’m still kinda pissed. I’d rather the team wake up every day pissed off at what they are going thru and just decide to kick ass.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
by Scott E on Nov 4, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Portis sends mixed signals.
No doubt about Portis on the playing field. I have never viewed him as giving less than 100%.
The comments he has made that were published on Redskins’ Insider are inconsistent. He has said the team is very talented, yet he admits that the offensive line problem from the 2008 season was not addressed by management. Then he says players are at fault and Snyder has no need to apologize. Then he may not be alone on the evaluation of the Skins offensive line talent since Bugel and Zorn also seemed to have been satisfied with the talent level before the season.
by Jefferson1935 on Nov 4, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to see Horton cover Gonzalez
He’s a sure tackler, can defend the pass, and big enough to avoid being over-powered.
Good post, btw.
by SSBlitz on Nov 4, 2009 1:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That was my guess/wish.
Hoo’s got some speed and size and athleticism to stay with Gonzalez for the most part. Problem is, the Falcon’s have a pretty good strategy of going to sleep on you with respect to using him. Then, all of a sudden he’s wide open and running way down field.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
by Scott E on Nov 4, 2009 1:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good points
Sacks—>Washington is at 30 out of 32, tending to think the majority of the bottom 1/3(10 teams) would be the losing teams but look
Minnesota and Pittsburgh both fall in this catagory, along with some other average teams such as Green Bay and coming in at #20 is the Eagles.
All of this goes back to the point that a weak ass line places a lot of burden on other aspects of a team to perform but a team can win with a substandard line. Coaching and player personel
Campbell not a good QB for a weak line
Coaching not creative enough to develop a good game plan.
but that can all be fixed and the game can be won. HTTR
by dr WNC on Nov 4, 2009 1:02 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Ditto...
as sacks can accumulate when a QB holds the ball too long (Big Ben and Aaron Rodgers). But those two QBs also make some big plays fairly routinely. When the D has to cover everyone for 5-8 seconds, someone is bound to get open and these two QBs, among others, will keep focused down field looking for the opportunity. Jason….eeyahhh..no.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
by Scott E on Nov 4, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pass attempts
The Vikings have 41 more passing attempts than the Skins, Steelers have 12 more, Green Bay 7 more. That at least defends the Vikings high number.
Geez…I haven’t watched the GB line exclusively…is it really worse than the current Skins one?
by KevinE on Nov 4, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's pretty bad.
The games I’ve seen Rogers play he has pretty much scrambled for his life. He does throw well on the run, though, so they roll him out a lot, which helps. The running game looks like a disorganized version of our CP left, only in all directions.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
by Scott E on Nov 4, 2009 1:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
they have talented players playing out of position
we have players who shouldn’t be playing period.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
by smutsboy1 on Nov 4, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hahaha, hysterical
but sadly true. I am going to repeating that one Vinny quote the rest of my life on if he thought he did enough to boost the Oline.
“Yes, we brought in Dockery and Mike Williams.”
by KevinE on Nov 4, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
do you know how many people on this site argued the same thing?
"Yes, we brought in Dockery and Mike Williams."
They also said our OL got younger with Heyer. What they failed to mention is that it also got worse.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
by smutsboy1 on Nov 4, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, and I was wrong
Never made the comment about Mike Williams but
Dockery and Heyer at Right Tackle I figured was enough to hold the line together and be successful but with this QB, the coach and the injuries it has failed to happen.
The line will not be fully addressed for another 3 to 5 years, will the Redskins be bad team over those 3 to 5 years or will they potentially be a playoff team with a new GM building a team and a Coach who understands how to coach in the NFL.
by dr WNC on Nov 4, 2009 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
NFL free agent offensive linemen
The players with any kind of reputation are on the old side.
George Foster -
http://nationalpost.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=6356&team=5
Jon Runyan (RT) 629 pass plays, only 7 sacks allowed for an average of .0111 sacks per pass play. As an Eagles fan I would take a repeat of these numbers from tackles Peters, Justice, or Andrews this season. -
http://tinyurl.com/y9frshj
Milford Brown (G)
http://scores.seattletimes.nwsource./fb/playerstats.asp?id=6259
Terrence Metcalf (G) http://stats.nj.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=5979&team=3
Adrian Jones (G) http://stats.nj.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=6891&team=34
Immediately after the 53-man roster cut downs in Sept. 2010, might be the most opportune time to find some offensive line depth. The Skins could get a few OL in the draft.
by Jefferson1935 on Nov 4, 2009 7:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You weren't the only one
Dockery and Heyer at Right Tackle I figured was enough to hold the line together
Apparently our coaching staff – with decades more NFL experience than certain HH posters and their 20/20 hindsight – thought the same thing. So don’t feel too bad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvIX3S0f-2c&feature=player_embedded
by VA_Skin on Nov 4, 2009 7:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure who that 20/20 hindsight is directed at.
Many people here and elsewhere saw this coming from a mile away, and stated such.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
by smutsboy1 on Nov 5, 2009 9:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Come on, bro.
Not even Ebenezer Scrooge would have thought we’d come out of the gate playing THAT bad or that Thomas/Samuels would be gone by the 2nd/3rd week(!!) or that Heyer would actually get WORSE. From everything we were hearing from the coaching staff and on paper, our OL looked like it had improved (however slightly).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvIX3S0f-2c&feature=player_embedded
by VA_Skin on Nov 5, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
whether it would happen by week 2/3 wasn't the question
the question was, “did we do enough to boost our OL?”
Some of us predicted no, but many, including Vinny, said “yes”.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
by smutsboy1 on Nov 5, 2009 2:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
point being
it is not fair to label it hindsight when many of us saw this coming.
that is actually the opposite of hindsight.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
by smutsboy1 on Nov 5, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't have a problem with our starting OL
It was the lack of quality depth that concerned me. I was astonished when we got to the 3rd round of the draft and names like Kevin Barnes and Robert Henson and Cody Glenn were being called. I’m not sure who we missed out on at that point, but there had to be someone better than Batiste and Montgomery.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvIX3S0f-2c&feature=player_embedded
by VA_Skin on Nov 5, 2009 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+3
I was really expecting a linemen with each of those picks too. I remember looking at which ones were still available, but I guess they weren’t thought to be strong calibre or fitting to our system.
I think a revitalized Mike Williams was a big pickup. Obviously the guy is huge, and had the skills through college to be a first round pick. Players are still young when they get drafted, and have been working their entire lives to ‘make it’, so that they sometimes slack off when they’re finally signed. I think Mike’s realized how fast it can all disappear and is taking his career much more professionally.
by SSBlitz on Nov 5, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If it was Madden and we could turn injuries off our starters woulda been ok
But Cerrato’s genius plan to go into the season with Samuels, Thomas, and no decent back up/youth was a disaster waiting to happen.
And then it happened.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
by smutsboy1 on Nov 5, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How could they not see our two best linemen going down?
Without a probowler backing them up?
The o-line was weak and injury-prone last year too. They made two strong additions (Dockery and Williams), but a probowl LT is impossible to replace. More than anything, line chemistry is the problem now.
by SSBlitz on Nov 5, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree chemistry is important
but at this point talent is the biggest issue, IMO
Williams, Heyer and whoever we start at RG simply aren’t starting caliber players.
And Rabach and Dockery are only serviceable starters. If they’re your best linemen, you have one of the lesser lines in the league.
This is all the result of Vinny not drafting a decent lineman for the past two years, and the franchise not drafting more than 3 decent linemen in the past 10 years.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
by smutsboy1 on Nov 5, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Samuels, Dockery, Rabach, and Thomas as your starters (plus 1 on LT) seems pretty decent to me. Not the best, but definitely above average.
by SSBlitz on Nov 5, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You have to take injury risk into account
that being the case, you have to dramatically downgrade Samuels & Thomas. And you had to dramatically downgrade the whole line due to lack of depth, or youth being groomed to step in and play.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
by smutsboy1 on Nov 5, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You can only take injury into account.
In hindsight.
In such a physical game, injuries can happen to anyone. Everyone has a “previous injury” that might reaggravate, so saying it was obvious is bullsh*t
by SSBlitz on Nov 5, 2009 11:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No, that's bullsh*t
Not all injury risks are the same.
Season ending injuries begat season ending injuries.
Age begats injuries.
Samuels and Thomas were at a high risk for both.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
by smutsboy1 on Nov 6, 2009 9:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Every NFL player has an injury in their history
But these two couldn’t have been forseen. They didn’t relate to the previous setbacks either of them had.
Thomas tore his left tricep in 2007.
And he had neck surgery last year.
None of that logically precedes tearing his right tricep this year.
Chris Samuels had stenosis, a narrowing of the spine, but that doesn’t logically precede a neck stinger, forced stretching of the nerves in the neck.
by SSBlitz on Nov 6, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
agree to disagree
Many, many people predicted these injuries.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
by smutsboy1 on Nov 6, 2009 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Kinda like...
we brought in two extra pinkies to stick in the dike.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
by Scott E on Nov 4, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Michael Turner isn't a bruiser?
Sure fooled me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laydODN6xVk
by hibachi on Nov 4, 2009 1:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone know?
1) What’s going to be our starting OL this week? Is Levi starting in place of anyone?
2) What’s the status of Anthony Montgomery? Will he be available?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvIX3S0f-2c&feature=player_embedded
by VA_Skin on Nov 4, 2009 7:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yes..projected starters....
LT 74 Stephon Heyer
LG 66 Derrick Dockery
C 61 Casey Rabach
RG 63 Will Montgomery
RT 71 Mike Williams
TE 86 Fred Davis
HB Blades is inactive. Heyer practiced and will play, but it is playing through knee pain.
by KevinE on Nov 4, 2009 8:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
geeze
if that isn’t a recipe for disaster…
Heyer practiced and will play, but it is playing through knee pain.
SpotieOtieDopalicious
by Rekka on Nov 5, 2009 10:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A recipe for Mexican food if
your a fan of the Ole block.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
by Scott E on Nov 5, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Offensive line
Why don’t they bring back Jeremy Bridges (if available) and Pete Kendall? A line of Bridges, Dockery, Rabach, Kendall and Williams would at least be passable. Heyer is awful. Anybody ever mention that Joe Bugel should get a large share of the blame for the O line disaster? He consistently overrated Heyer, cut Bridges (keeping inept rookies), and probably told Cerrato the line would be OK, so Cerrato thought he was only looking for backups (and he got Williams and Bridges). When Samuels went down, Joe probably decided to put Batiste at tackle, rather than guard. I think Joe – a great guy – is getting old. Snyder and Cerrato are not the villains, except that they decided to hire Jim Zorn, who is not up to coaching an NFL team. What did they think they saw in Jim that Seattle did not see? Seattle knew him well and refused to promote him, suggesting they did not think he had much potential. Jim then ruined his career by supporting Jason from the start. Jason is not and never will be more than a mediocre quarterback. He does not have the vision or talent to see and hit open receivers. That is killing Malcolm and Devin.
by Donnio1234 on Nov 4, 2009 9:57 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
A lot of speculation here
on what Buges was thinking; how he evaluated the available talent and what he told mgt.
To continue to speculate, what’s interesting is that someone must have played the “Defense Wins Championships” card. Then you can just hear the gears clinking in Snyder’s head. Oh, I get rid of Williams as DC/HC, who put together an outstanding D, and I, Me, DANNY, have gone out and made it BETTER without him. Badda-bing! Badda-boom!
So no one gets drafted for the O-line, which could have been Oher for Orakpo, which in the end would have been the better pick compared to how we are actually using Orakpo and how well Oher has played for Baltimore – mex standoff with him against Jared Allen, perhaps the best DE in the league.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
by Scott E on Nov 5, 2009 10:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yup
Just b/c we went with Heyer & Co, doesn’t mean Buges thought it would work. It wasn’t Buges’ final decision.
Snyderrato is so irrational and whimsical, it’s very easy to envision a situation in which they convince themselves that this OL was good enough, no matter what Buges said to them in private, or to the public.
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
by smutsboy1 on Nov 5, 2009 10:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately
I agree on Buges. He’s great for a quote, but he just seems like he’s a little out of touch. He just recently said, “I don’t know if there’s a better Center in the league right now than Casey Rabach.” (LINK). He praised Heyer before the season as a “legit tackle” (LINK). I don’t expect him to throw his guys under the bus, but don’t get in front of a microphone and undeservedly put them on a pedestal either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvIX3S0f-2c&feature=player_embedded
by VA_Skin on Nov 5, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't Heyer originally a RG?
Now they have him at LT. I’ve never played offensive line, but I’m pretty sure that’s a big difference. And facing much better competition.
by SSBlitz on Nov 5, 2009 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
originally left tackle in college
brought him in at RT, playing LT now
SpotieOtieDopalicious
by Rekka on Nov 5, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Snyder and Cerrato
“except that they decided to hire Jim Zorn, who is not up to coaching an NFL team.”
So they are the villains! Campbell isn’t killing Malcom and Devin, it’s the lack of protection for Campbell that is killing our WRs. You won’t see anything from skill position players until you have a decent O-line in place.
by Kurtstack on Nov 5, 2009 8:47 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I love the Offensive Line chart
Keep those coming throughout the season. Campbell needs to run more when the pocket breaks down. He should be coached to run if he sees a hole open up. That will slow down the pass rush, as they will be forced to stay in their lanes instead of taking wide speed rush angles and would help our OTs out.
by Kurtstack on Nov 5, 2009 8:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
JC is pretty good at taking off and running, no?
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
by smutsboy1 on Nov 5, 2009 9:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
his ankle has been screwed up for the past couple of weeks hasn't it?
SpotieOtieDopalicious
by Rekka on Nov 5, 2009 10:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with seeing a hole
is that from a broadcast perspective, it’s obvious. But down on the field around 10 300+lbs players, you don’t notice if there’s an opportunity to run without getting clocked.
by SSBlitz on Nov 5, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
especially when your supposed to be looking downfield looking for open receivers, and protecting the ball, all while your O-Line is playing Ole! with the other team’s D-line
SpotieOtieDopalicious
by Rekka on Nov 5, 2009 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha.
I like that. Ole!
“Nice, finally an open receiver downfield for a first down.” “Sorry, called back for holding again”
by SSBlitz on Nov 5, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
On Heyer
"Sorry, called back for holding again"
SpotieOtieDopalicious
by Rekka on Nov 5, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I feel kinda bad for him.
He’s not a terrible player, he’s just not great. And he’s being forced to block elite quality rushers every down now. Even with help, you gotta be on your game to stop Cole, Peppers, or WIlkerson.
by SSBlitz on Nov 5, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d feel more sorry for him if he wasn’t gettin blown up at his original position too
SpotieOtieDopalicious
by Rekka on Nov 5, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's true.
He should be a backup, not starting.
by SSBlitz on Nov 5, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think we need to cut our losses
He’s proven that he can’t step in and block any better than a girl scout. I had high hopes for him, but now I wonder what the hell he was really doing out in Arizona this past offseason when he was supposed to be strengthening and conditioning his body (eating peyote and smoking weed I guess).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvIX3S0f-2c&feature=player_embedded
by VA_Skin on Nov 5, 2009 8:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hopefully he was better at that
(eating peyote and smoking weed I guess).
"By far the worst performers on the team are in the front office." – Sally Jenkins
by smutsboy1 on Nov 6, 2009 9:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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