Keep Zorn ....Keep Campbell
by ENsDad27 on Nov 30, 2009 9:08 PM EST
47 comments
Keep Zorn....Keep Campbell
I am sure that everyone will agree with me on this......no?? I am shocked!!! I do think that we should keep both tho. I think that Jason Campbell is becoming a better QB every game that he plays this season. He looks to me to be making better reads & making better throws. His stats behind that line are really pretty impressive, I have no answer on why we seem to always bog down when it counts tho. I ragged on him at the beginning of this season & for that I am sorry, anyone who takes the beating that he does for the team that we love deserves better. Taking a QB with our first pick will mean YEARS of rebuilding a team that to me at least does not look to have many needs apart from a terrible O-Line.
Coach Jim Zorn is a different matter. I know that he is not a good coach now, & I don't know if he will ever be a good coach but the way that we treat HCs makes me feel that we are going to have a hard time finding a top notch coach who will come in under the Snyder/Cerratto regime. Remember we hired him as OC only to promote him because we could not get anyone in to take over the HC position. I think that with a REAL GM, & the support of the FO that in time he could become a good HC ( not betting the ranch on that last statement tho ) Marvin Lewis has only had one winning season previous to this one in Cinn. ( three .500 seasons, two losing ) but he has turned it around in Cinn. & they are going to win a very tough division. I think that it takes time for a coach to develop ( even Belichek got canned in Clev. ) & unless we have someone better to replace him it makes no sense to start this whole merry go round again
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Really? ROTFLMFAO
Doing the same thing expecting different results. Good luck with that theory.
Don’t compare Belichek to Zorn. Ever. EVER.
I agree we need to draft offensive lineman.. but Campbell will never get it done. The guy makes plenty of mistakes that you can’t blame on the line. Those 2 picks he threw in the Eagles game were horrible decisions to pass into coverage. NOT the line’s fault.
Draft a tackle in round 1. Draft a guard in round 2. Look for a qb next season. Let Todd Collins and Colt Brennan take the beating in 2010 until we can find something better in the April 2011 draft.
by williamhudsonlink on Nov 30, 2009 9:56 PM EST reply actions
surely you jest!!!
Let Todd Collins and Colt Brennan take the beating in 2010 until we can find something better in the April 2011 draft.
Look I am down on Campbell at the moment, due to my recent awakening to the fact that I just do not beleive in the guy to engineer 4th quarter comebacks, but to expext Todd or Colt to be better is pure Fantasy…..
I supported Campbell for a long time and even though I have flipped I have not gone off the deep end. JC17 is a perfectly competent QB in the Matt Schaub/Donovan McNabb mold, get the job done statistically but fail when the heat is really on,
thats why one trade I would accept (which I will get slammed for raising) and that now is completely undoable unfortunately is to make a push to get Vince Young, now there is a guy you beleive in when 3 points down with 2 minutes left, and with a great D like we have and a re-built O-Line that is what you need.
This is what worries me about Jason, with our team, assuming a revamped O-Line all you need the QB to do is pull out 2 or 3 games a year when we need a late drive, unfortunately and it pains me to say this JC17 is not that guy, but neither are Todd or Colt, I mean please that is just madness speaking, you know who is though….. Vince Young is….
I think Campbell would be great in Buffalo or somewhere and i wish him the best cos he is a true leader and a really great human being or so it appears,
Pommylee
Santana Moss needs to stop ducking hits ......
Maybe you did not notice but on one of the interceptions it was Santana’s fault . Santana is afraid to take a hit so instead of taking a hit in the back he falls backward away from the ball and Asante Samuels steps in front of him for the interception. If I were Campbell I would start calling Moss out for not going after the ball falling backwards and down away from the ball is a sure way to get your route jumped. The same pass thrown to Cooley would have been a reception and Cooley would have just taken the hit in the back.
LJP I have been a Campbells supporter for a long time
and this is not about individual plays, or missed throws, or recievers dropping passes, what it boils down too (and as I said mate, it pains me to say this, because I genuinly like JC17 and wich him nothing but success) but what it boils down too, is that 2 weeks in a row now he has the ball in his hands with a win possible and both times….BEFORE THE DRIVE EVEN BEGAN… I just did not beleive, there was not one part of me that believed he would lead us down the field.
Now that could be due to a lot of factors, but the fact is none of them really matter, I have just lost any faith in him engineering miracles, and dont get me wrong, very few QB’s are capable of it, thats why the whole go to Collins thing is madness, so would swapping for Cutler or Sanchez, all I am saying is “I would not be devastated if they kept him, but I would be equally unmoved if they let him move on”
Pommylee
To lead a team down the field you need pass blocking ....
How can he throw the deep ball or medium passes if he only has three seconds max.
Once again I agree LJP
my point is not that we should get rid of Jason, and AGAIN IT IS NOT ABOUT individual throws, missed blocking, the o-line, it just a ’lack of belief" that came BEFORE THE DRIVES EVEN BEGAN….
now let me clarify
If we keep Jason I will be happy, I like him, I think he is a solid top 20 QB who can do good things for the franchise,
When I say I have flipped, what I mean is that up until a couple of weeks ago I was 100% completely against the notion of bringing in another QB, whereas now, if the FO decided to go down that road, I would not embrace it enthusiastically because I really believe, as you do, that the O-Line is the problem…BUT… if they do go QB, I will not be suprised, nor neccesarily angered by it, I will in fact support the new guy and hope he does well, and I will not rip the FO for the decision.
Now I know this is nto your view, and i completely respect your view, it is a view I myself held until 2 weeks ago… all I am saying is that I am now more openminded about making that move than I was a couple of weeks ago
Pommylee
Pomm I assume you did not watch .........
The Saints/ Pats game if anyone on this site that watched that game still wants a new QB instead of upgraded Offensive line they are not a true SKINS FAN !! THE GREAT TOM BRADY looked like garbage because he had a little pressure on him all game. Just imagine if he had Jason Campbell Slobber Knocker presure on him all game. We need to Upgrade the Offensive line keep a solid QB get rid of wimpy coach everything else is secondary.
TOM BRADY ZERO/ toucdowns and TWO/ INTERCEPTIONS …… versus New Orleans Saints.
LJP please calm down and read what i have written
MY POINT IS NOT THAT I WANT US TO DRAFT A QB IN THE FIRST ROUND
MY POINT IS NOT THAT I WANT US TO NEGLECT O-LINE
MY POINT IS THAT IF WE DID GO QB 1ST ROUND and O-LINE 2nd 3rd and FA then I WOULD NOT BE DEVASTATED
AGAIN I LIKE CAMPBELL AND WOULD BE EQUALLY AS HAPPY IF WE KEPT HIM
BUT
If you want to bring up individual plays go and watch Campbells int vs Dallas, now you say that the O-Line should have blocked the hands and maybe that is right, but he was aiming the throw into double coverage anyway AND he had the D-Line in his face and he still PANICKED and THREW, presumably because he figured 2 minute drill have to try something on every play
NOW go and watch the TITANS final drive on SUNDAY, V YOUNG, on 2nd and 10 from his own 30 early in the drive, was in a situation where his protection broke down, and instead of trying to force something, he just took the sack, and backed himself to get the job done on the next two downs when the protection was better and better options present themselves rather than take a risk…. that is a winner, that is how they think.
NOW I AM NOT< ABSOLUTELY NOT>> saying Campbell is not a winner, what I am doing is showing that you often bring up indiviual plays or moments to prove larger points and I am showing you how that can go both ways
AGAIN i do nto want to get into an argument with you about this, I am not saying your position is wrong, I respect and shared it completely and still do share it partially, all I am saying is that now I am not so commited to Jason, and you know what dude, he will probably leave anyway adn if he does, I have no doubt he will be succesful whereever he goes and If he stays he will be succesful if we can give him the o-line he deserves.
ALL I AM SAYING IS THAT I WILL NOT BE DEVASTATED IF WE DO GO QB IN RD 1,. thats all, not saying I hope we do it, I hope we go O-Line, I am just saying I will understand if the FO goes Clausen or McCOy
Pommylee
hey pomm tell mehow good ....
Tom Brady played with pressure in his face all game ??/ lol Their is a difference having pressure every now and then like Vince and all game like Campbell !!
you have made that point LJP, 25 times, now try and read mine in full and you will see you are arguing a different issue
the point I am making is that as much as I like Jason, I dont beleive in him going the length of the field and I dont agree with his decision making at crucial times,
Now that could be O-Line related or not, but the point is that he made that throw against Dallas into double coverage even if it had not been blocked at the line of scrimmage AND he had that pressure in his face, and he did not have the composure to take the sack like VY did;
This is not a Jason is bad comment, AGAIN I THINK HE IS A TOP 15-20 QB and I like him, but the VY’s of the world just have the something extra, that composure in the clutch that can not be taught or coached, it is just innate, I have played sport all my life (not NFL but a wide variety of sports, and played soccer to quite a high level and Basketball at the lowest levels imaginable) and in both scenarios regardless of skill level, some people just have the indefineable quality of getting it done at crucial moments, and at this stage Jason has not inspired that belief in me, I really think he is a Matt Schaub type guy, solid, dependable, skilled, but lacks that killer instinct
NOW NOTHING WOULD MAKE ME HAPPIER THAN FOR HIM TO COME OUT AND PROVE ME WRONG THIS WEEK OR LATER IN THE YEAR, but until he does, I will continue to hold my newly aquired belief that although I would prefer O-Line I will not be devasted if we go QB if its a McCoy or a Clausen,
’m not saying i want them, I am saying I will not be devastated if we go that way…..THAT IS NOT EVEN A SUBTLE DIFFERENCE IT IS MASSIVE< READ IT AND THINK ABOUT IT>>DONT JUST BLAME EVERYTHING ON THE O-LINE<
Pommylee
your crazy to draft a qb...
its the last thing we need.. Besides we still have a decent one waiting on IR thats just waiting for his chance.
pure crazy talk…
"When the rich wage WAR its the POOR that die!!!"
crazy talk is thinking that Colt or Todd are better than Jason
again let me re-iterate for the umpteenth time
I AM NOT FOR DRAFTING A 1ST RD QB
I AM JUST NOT TOTALLY AGAINST IT
THERE IS A MASSIVE DIFFERENCE
Pommylee
I wouldnt
BUT
VInny?Danny and that half retarded brain cell that they share will probably end up going that way, and my point is, that 3 weeks ago I would have regarded this is as Treason, and railed to anyone who would let me about the stupidity injustice and tragedy of it all but then I remembered 2 things
Number One,
the second reason (after my Support of JC) I was against the Sanchez trade was that it was universally accepted last year that it was a weak QB draft class and that this years looked strong, so I wondered (why mortgage our draft future to go after a QB with many many question marks, when we can wait a year with a good QB in Jason and if a genuine star is their next year then we can pounce)
Number Two
Watching Vince Young the last two weeks I realised that I could just never imagine JC doing what he does, now these type of People, YES PEOPLE not QB’s or even FOOTBALLERS are rare, the guys who just get calmer the more the pressure ramps up, there is probably only 3 or 4 of these QB’s in the NFL at any time, at the moment Manning, Young. and it pains me to say it Favre, (i dont put Brees there yet cos he has not needed to do a 2 minute drill to win yet, just his sheer skill and genius is blowing teams away)
SO my thinking is, if Snyder is hellbent on going QB at least this year is the right year to do it, IN THE SENSE THAT THERE ARE MANY HIGHLY RATED QB’s AVAILABLE, not that it is the right decision, the Right Decision is Left Tackle, but if he is determined to get a shiny new toy, then this is the right year to do it,
Thats all I am saying, unfortunately LJP lives in a world with no greys at all, where in a Dubya like fashion “your either with us or against us” well I live in this different place called the real world, where issues are not black and white and I am just opening my thought process to the idea that maybe QB isnt a terrible idea this year, IT IS NOT THE BEST IDEA, THE BEST IDEA IS O-LINE< but maybe just maybe this year at least it is not a terrible idea, based on the talent that exists at that position in this draft class
Pommylee
What are you talking about ???
What is the chance that we will find a manning or a Vince Young in the draft ? The chances are we will find a qb that takes 3-4 years to excel and that is if we can build a Offensive line. If he lasts behind a crappy line without being shell shocked it will be a miracle. Name any of the top QB draft picks that could have played behind our Offensive line this year ? Name one just one!! I double dare you because you can not !! They would have been ready to retire after the second game. It takes a very mentally tough person to take some of the hits Campbell took this year. Bradford is to fragile. Tebow is used to giving blows not taking them.
its a waste of time talking to you about JC17 dude, because you dont read whats written
so let me point it out for you
last year that it was a weak QB draft class and that this years looked strong,
ergo…. if you are going to try for a QB this is the year
if Snyder is hellbent on going QB at least this year is the right year to do it, IN THE SENSE THAT THERE ARE MANY HIGHLY RATED QB’s AVAILABLE, not that it is the right decision, the Right Decision is Left Tackle, but if he is determined to get a shiny new toy, then this is the right year to do it,
meaning, you and I dont make the decisions, Snyder does, and if he is determined to go QB, then at least let it be this year when there are quality players available, rather than a year like last year where he was prepared to trade up for whats there… PLUS READ AGAIN< MY PREFERENCE IS LT and keep JC
I am just opening my thought process to the idea that maybe QB isnt a terrible idea this year, IT IS NOT THE BEST IDEA, THE BEST IDEA IS O-LINE< but maybe just maybe this year at least it is not a terrible idea, based on the talent that exists at that position in this draft class
Again, read whats written, I WANT TO KEEP JC and DRAFT OL, HOWEVER!!! Snyder will probably go QB and at least this is the right year to do it, IF he is determined to do so
Pommylee
lol.... slow down and breath dude...
Grrrrrrrr….. Snyder is a mystery man,,, i would not be surprised at all if that is the route he takes….
"When the rich wage WAR its the POOR that die!!!"
Ok, make up your mind either he does or doesn't take chances ??
You are the same person that blames Campbell no matter what. Look at what TOM Brady did when under just a little pressure with a bettter O-line then us. He looked like a deer in the head lights. Did you not see Tom Brady making bad throws and overthrowing receivers. Why don’t some of you people get it . Until we upgrade our Offensive line even Tom Brady could not do much better than Campbell. Hey for those that do not beleive me look at how NON-TOM BRADY LIKE he played against the Saints with just a little pressure on him. Just think if he had Jason Campbell like pressure on him all game long.
EXACTLY!!!
Most of the “fans” that hate on Jason don’t pay much attention to games. All the stuff that they call Jason out for is something that every QB does from time to time and has done before. Brady looked nowhere near himself. Especially when he over threw a wide open Randy Moss. How does Brady do that? Ohhh thats right, he was being pressured and couldn’t set his feet right. Better O-line and Campbell will be the bomb!
Having pressure certainly affects the way you throw
Just because there is no pressure doesn’t make you an accurate passer. It definitely helps improve the likelihood of a completion, but…
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
I know it doesnt make you accurate
But as you said it does help. And my main point is that Campbell is pressured in every game on almost every passing play.
dump Zorn
he kills the team every time he tries to coach
two weeks in a row he has called time outs at the wrong time, something he has done several times before
maybe he does it to get back at Snyder by ensuring defeatt?
agree on keeping Jason 100%
by Crazy Canton Cuts on Dec 1, 2009 7:25 AM EST reply actions
Agree
So if Zorn stays next year, do you give him back the play-calling? Or do you keep Sherm squared and that laughable relay team?
Blow it up.
I wonder what it was exactly that Zorn said
in his interview with Snyder that lit off bells and whistles right and left and sold Snyder? Other than the ol’ I give a great BJ routine I can’t imagine.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Why reward failure?
Zorn needs to go, he’s in over his head and I think he would have been as OC as well given how the offense performed when he was running it.
I’m for keeping JC but I can’t see him passing up any offers to go elsewhere. Why would a QB want to play for Snyder + VC and behind this OL?
It’s a shame we’ve taken a 5/7 step passer and tried to force him to be a WCO QB.
And while we’re at it, dump anything to do with the WCO and let’s get back to Redskins football – power running with a vertical passing game. We need to do that regardless of whether we manage to hold on to JC or not.
yeah lets drop zorn
then we can have Campbell learn a new offense, that’s been really working for us the past 5 years. oh and after Campbell doesn’t put up franchise qb numbers in the new system we can kick him out of washington and try with a rookie qb who will struggle his first season then we can kick out the new coach after he doesn’t make the playoff his first two years, then we can get someone else to install a new offense then scratch our heads wondering why our stud qb is such a bust??? and the cycle continues….
Campbell has learned more offenses than most ....
I would say he probably could pick it up now since he has the fundamentals down.
stop with the excuses....
He is only good when the run game is hot…. Once the pressure is off he is good… But he still gets another year and another offense to learn…lol… I would be tired if I were him
"When the rich wage WAR its the POOR that die!!!"
I agree with the original post.
Though not completely with this:
I know that he is not a good coach now
He has strengths and weaknesess as a coach. Some people (especially around here) will only ever highlight his weaknesses, or blame him for faults that are not entirely his own.
I agree that he will have noticeable improvements with continuity.
Like getting a new QB
there is an up side and a downside to everything. Losing JC means we’ve taken a known quantity that is not bad and tossing a coin and hoping to win the lottery. Same for Zorn. We lose him and the franchise’s reputation sinks another notch and there is no guarantee we will get the coach we need – let me re-emphasize: THE COACH WE NEED. Not necessarily some high profile guy with a Super Bowl win a decade ago. Not a WCO guy. Someone who can give this team discipline, use the players to their best abilities, and play smashmouth Redskins football. Someone who the FFO is willing to work with and not interfere with. Not many names come up for all that.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Not a Fan of Zorn
But could keeping the Coaches the same actually benefit the team if a new GM is brought in to draft lineman and evaluate everyone first?
Blache can retire with Grey moving up, just a thought
JIM ZORN IS A WIMP .....................
Listen to his interviews he is clueless he sounds like a snake oil salesman. The problem is that he is not that convincing. The Attitude of the team and coaches will remain the same with this coach he plays not to loose . That is a design for failure this year and next. He is the type of person that shifts with the direction of the wind. He will not stand up to his players. Why else would Rock Cartwright have started on kick off return team over Devin Thomas ??? It is amazing how now you have a feeling that we might have a good return instead of Rock catching the ball and getting tackled right away, The sad thing is that Jim Zorn had called Devin Thomas out earlier this year. He had said that D. Thomas should not think that he needs to return kicks to get going he needs to do that as a receiver anyway. That shows the character of Zorn he calls a player out in a interview because the player knows that he is better at something than the player that is in the position. The sad thing about this is Jim Zorn knew the same thing but was just afraid to stand up to the locker rooom politics. Rock starting on return team over Devin Thomas was a waste of alot of good field postion this year.
Reality vs Perception
This is where feelings over-ride reality.
Rock is one of the top 10 kick off return guys in the league, could almost go Top-5. Rocks only failure to a fan is that he is not going to return a kick for a TD, as he does not have the speed. He does get yardage, and his average is high.
Use another example because this one is not accurate.
I agree but the pattern of this team
Is to keep vets in the game over younger guys and when you only target young receiver 2-4 times a game and the qb misses one throw the receiver drops the next and then doesn’t get another target, they will never be productive… I think that the idea that portis can go all week without a practice and get 20+ touches in a game is absurd, it destroys team moral because performance in practice should dictate playing time, That’s how you create more competition, the fact that Marko Mitchell wasn’t getting to play against the 1st stringers in preseason because he’s a 7th rounder is BS everyone said he was out performing kelly and dt in practice so why not reward him with a chance to move up the depth chart, sure his route running probably wasn’t polished enough to show anything real special to move ahead of MK and DT but atleast it would lite a fire under their asses and get them to work hard to save their spots.
Lets face it Rock is a better kick off returner than Thomas as of now, but Thomas has a much bigger upside he’s not much worse than Rock and he has alot less experience.
Perception is more important sometimes ........
anytime Devin fields a return you expect him to make a good run or at least have a chance. With Rock back you know he will catch the ball and run straight ahead and get tackled. devin gets the offense pumped up and look at the returns Devin has had he has made some runs on the return team the Rock never could have made. I do not think you have been watching him return the ball. Hey you need to watch the games so you will see what I am talking about !!!
I agree that devin should be back there
and trust me i dvr all games and usually watch them more than once, what i am saying is that the team seems to take the safe bet (rock) rather than gambling on the new guys which is crazy because at his age rock will only decline as far as kick returns but DT has nothing but upside he did well in first few returns since rock became the number 1 RB and i think he will continue to get better. but Rock is a very very solid kickreturner who might have a better average yards per return than DT will starting out until DT gets more chances, we will see him take one to the house which rock will not and cannot do at this point in his career.
Skins fan28...PLEASE READ
I live in Australia and get to see very few games, If I send you a USB stick is there any chance you can transfer them games to USB and send them to me, I am more than happy to give you $50 or wahtever it costs to take your wife/partner out to dinner if you are able to do this for me
Pommylee
Rock ranks near the bottom of the league........
His averae per kick puts him at # 26 ?
Why would he still be returning kicks for us and he is # 26 in the league !!!!!!!
LET ME SAY THIS AGAIN HE IS # ^#@$%%^ # 26 in the league in return average ???
But people keep defending him because he is a veteran/captain and people like him. ????
by LETJASONPASS on Dec 2, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
I think Portis and Ladell
getting hurt actually helped out the team as a whole, as it forced them to play Rock at RB where he is doing a solid job as back-up, plus DT has been an improvement as KR and as someone said returning kicks gets him juiced up to be a better receiver.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
hey Scott that someone was me ...
Jim Zorn had bashed Devin in a interview. He had said the Devin should not think that he needs to return kicks in order to get it going as a receiver. I guess Devin was down because of the locker room politics. Think about how much field position we have given up and games we have lost because of poor starting field position due to keeping Rock in as a Return guy . Starting off at the 17 yard line versus starting off at the 28 yard line makes a big difference in plays that can be called.
and me
Returning Kicks Will help Thomas’s overall game as well, There’s nothing like taking a hit or breaking a tackle to get the pregame jitters out of your system. I think a good return here or there will help Thomas out with with dropped catches and playing a bit more physical for the whole 60 minutes.
by skinsfan28 on Nov 25, 2009 6:47 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
IM back!!!!!
Alright kiddies….. LJP I know you are gonna throw this back at me, but, We should keep <<<<>>>campbell…. Fot this reason alone….. We need every pick possible from the draft for linemen. The only reason I see us dropping campbell… fingers crossed…. Is if there is no pay cap for next year…. Without a paycap Danny boy can go crazy…..
I just think that it would crazy to start fresh with a rookie QB and waste a needed pick
"When the rich wage WAR its the POOR that die!!!"
Oh and Zorn can stay and just work on QBs and stand behind everyone on the sideline on game days.....
"When the rich wage WAR its the POOR that die!!!"
After the Saints game .....
I want you to apologize after JC 17 has a great game against this defense that made Tom Brady look ordinary. The reason JC 17 will out play Tom Brady is because he is used to pressure all game long and Brady was not !! Tom Brady is a prime example of what a lack of blocking can do to you. Brady 2int/ o td versus saints !!
I think im gonna give JC 17 a pass on this one...
As a matter of fact… I hope Brees still gives me 47 fantacy points but loses the game by some touch of a miracle…. thats what I hope… I might just spend all day sunday with my head in the sand pretending that nothing bad is about to happen….
"When the rich wage WAR its the POOR that die!!!"
SELL THE TEAM, DAN
Let a new owner (who can keep his hands off the team) hire a real GM and go from there. Get your SELL THE TEAM, DAN bumpersticker at www.savetheskins.com
by savetheskins.com on Dec 3, 2009 8:54 AM EST reply actions
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