Mediocre at Best: but far from the Worst

by dr WNC on Oct 9, 2009 8:39 AM EDT Comment 43 comments

The bizarre happenings in Washington or Maryland always bring out the sentiments that the Washington Redskins are the worst ran franchise in football.

To prove this it is pointed out the team’s performance while Daniel Snyder has owned the team; the lack of playoff opportunities, the lack of playoff wins, no Conference Championships and no Super bowl trips let alone a win. It continues with the detailed management of the team going after the “big name” free agent, hiring and firing multiple big name coaches, ignoring key aspects of the team (OL), continued Cap-hell and the trading of draft picks.

All is true, but is it true that Washington is the worse run NFL franchise or is it a misdirected owner.

Daniels Snyder is a business man who owns a football team, he operates with a business understanding and the results separate the Redskins from most others teams. The Redskins have not had a truly awful season in 10 years. Lots of misses of the playoffs, but never fewer than 5 wins. Just in the last 4 years, 15 different franchises have won 4 or fewer games at least once. Since 2000, 22 different franchises have won 4 or fewer games. Since 1994, when the Skins won 3 games, 26 other franchises have won 4 or fewer games at least once (and the Rams did it in both St. Louis and LA, and the Houston Oilers/Tenneesse Titans also did the combo). Only New England, Pittsburgh, Dallas, Tampa Bay and Minnesota have also avoided that fate. And Tampa Bay appears headed towards that fate this year.

Of those 5, NE and Pittsburgh are truly exceptional, though they had middling years. Tampa had a brief run, Dallas was at the end of its run when this analysis started, and Minnesota just had middling performance. But at least Minnesota had a few good years, including that 15-1 year. The Skins never did better than 10 wins and that really shows their fate – they’ve been decidedly average the whole time. Never putrid, but never excellent. And that can be exceedingly frustrating as a fan but it’s the way to run a business and be successful, NOT the way to run an NFL team.

If a business is allowed to completely collapse the business no longer exists, if an NFL team is allowed to collapse then a team can rebuild from the interior and become a dominate football team for a significant length of time. Daniel Snyder started to step back during Gibbs second tenure, but now with the goings on it appears he is stepping back in, Danny-boy for the good of the team and the good of the Fans, hire a football GM and allow them to “blow-up” the team and BUILD a team, some key young players are in place right now to build a solid team around: Orakpo, Jarmon, Horton, Thomas, Kelly, Davis, Mason, Alridge, Rinehart, Williams…Chip thanks for the information.

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I can't get excited by

indefinite mediocrity.

To me the fact we have some good players to build around isn’t anything new. I just went out to the pro football reference website and picked a random year which turned out to be 2002 and when I looked at the roster I saw nearly the same situation: some good core players to build around (Samuels, Jansen, Rod Gardner, LaVar Arrington, Jeremiah Trotter, Jessie Armstead, Champ Bailey, Fred Smoot, Ladell Betts, Rock Cartwright, to mention a few). Actually in retrospect that roster was pretty good but Spurrier was the coach…ugh!

So the FO needs to do something different this time so we aren’t mediocre forever. I’ll take a bad season or two if it means getting past the mediocrity hump.

by ZakInOmaha on Oct 9, 2009 9:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yes, but it appears with Lewis

The FO is taking the same approach again…and again…and again

What is the definition of Insanity?
See Daniel Snyder and the Washington Redskins, doing the same things over and over and over again while expecting a different result.

by dr WNC on Oct 9, 2009 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What exactly are you suggesting?

Throwing games to move up in the draft or just blowing the team up at 2-2??

by VA_Skin on Oct 9, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not saying anything about a 2-2 team

I’m saying when the team finishes somewhere between 9-6 and 6-9 that it’s been the same thing over and over again.
If Daniel Snyder is going to fire Zorn, then yes Blow-up the entire team with a a core set of players and start building mostly through the draft with some, very few Free agents added.

by dr WNC on Oct 9, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

IF, and the ‘if’ is the key, IF we’re going to go through another coaching change then realize this team needs, or will need in the next couple of years (because we’re still 1 of the oldest teams in the league) many holes filled, not just a couple.

2-2 doesn’t say it all either. If we were 2-2 after playing the Giants, Eagles, Ravens, and Colts I’d have a whole lot more hope for a good season than us being 2-2 after playing the Giants and 3 crap teams…and barely winning the 2 games at that.

by ZakInOmaha on Oct 9, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This could be very, very good or...

really, really bad. The situation we are in is that very few qualified HCs would want to come to DC thanks to Dan Snyder. It has either gotten to the point where a Cowher comes in (I do not like Gruden, Shanny or Holmgren) and by his reputation (like Gibbs) gets Danny to truly back off or we get another Zorn, an unproven HC experiment, which just sets us back to ground zero. If we can’t go the Cowher type route, then I prefer like shvd98z24 states below that we give Zorn/JC another year with some help at OC.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

by Scott E on Oct 9, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

good summary

this guy summed it up well: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/269063-washington-redskins-stuck-in-the-middle/show_full

by ZakInOmaha on Oct 9, 2009 10:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I would like to see.....

I stated in another post, I would like to see everything stay intact for one more season after now. Sign Campbell to a 2-3 year contract……keep Zorn…..maybe get a legit OC (keep Sherm maybe)…..and give it all one more year. I think a big thing this team has lacked isn’t necesarily coaching or the players….but continuity. You should know everything you need to know in 3 years. In 3 years….and coach should be able to fill a roster with his kind of guys, get his kind of coaches, and get his system intact. Zorn inherited Gibbs team, just as he inherited Spurrier’s, as he inherited Marty’s.

The flip side however is what the past tells us…..and the past tells us……expect it to be blown up. What I want is above….what I expect is Zorn and staff all gone, Holmgren or Shanahan as coach with their staff……Campbell gone….we will trade this year and next years 1-2 rounders to draft a QB or bring in someone and overpay them. I expect half the roster to be new! It sucks to think about, however, I will still be there watching the Skins every step of the way!

Hail!!!!

by shvd98z24 on Oct 9, 2009 11:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Continuity

is not part of Snyder’s vocabulary. In business, chaos can be good…keeping the pressure on all to preform, or else. Doesn’t work that way in football.

And no coach, with the exception of Gibbs, has had “his own team” because Snyder and Cerrato have made all the personnel decisions. How can a coach build “his team” when he has very little input on who is drafted!

This will not change until Snyder undergoes a personality transplant.

by grandpa grouse on Oct 11, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

but could it happen

I’m pretty sure that JC is going to get other offers so if you were him would YOU stay? To me it would all depend on the other team. The Riaders…NO! But there are several teams that might offer a better opportunity like Panthers, Jaguars, Titans to name a few.

by ZakInOmaha on Oct 9, 2009 12:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Question for everybody

What scares you the most? Romo as QB for the Cowgirls, or JC17 as QB for the Cowgirls?

I'm to young to Die Danny...don't make me do it tomorrow....

by Rekka on Oct 9, 2009 1:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

it's a toss up

even statistically they are almost twins although JC does have a better completion % so maybe he is a bit better but then again I think JC works with a better WR corps and I think Cooley is every bit as good as Witten.

by ZakInOmaha on Oct 9, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Romo is a disaster

he is a glitzier version of Gus Frerotte. A QB who exceeded projections, but peaked very early. His bogus Pro Bowl nomination that first (half) year established a bar that he’s just not capable of reaching. His numbers were trumped by having an offensive anomaly to throw to early, making him look way better than he actually is. Being in Dallas also raises expectations, He will never be as good as they want or expect him to be, and in the course of failing to live up to the hype, he will lose any chance he may have had at actually improving.

by CJHutch on Oct 9, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

but JC isn’t exactly tearing it up either. I’m hoping he’ll turn around but until he does I’m calling it as I see it. Statistically they are nearly identical. I could see knocking Romo because Dallas has a better running game at the moment but in fairness Roy Williams is not stud WR either.

by ZakInOmaha on Oct 9, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry

I wasn’t really trying to compare the two. I know that JC isn’t a pro bowler. The problem is that Romo SUPPOSEDLY is. He is viewed by many to be one of the “elite” Qb’s in the league, when the reality is that he really isn’t close to that. But because of the media’s love for Dallas’ “flair” he was given a pass. Until now. It took Troy Aikman and Moose Johnston to start shedding light on his deficiencies for the general public to realize that the guy is just not as good as advertised.

by CJHutch on Oct 9, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

While I am

not ready to wave the white flag on this season/roster, I do fin it frustrating that we are constantly fighting to be middle of the pack. There is this notion out there that ‘rebuilding’ is a bad word. Well, unless you have a superior FO like New England, Pittsburgh, or Baltimore, sometimes rebuilding is necessary. Think about it. While we have strived to remain “competitive” every year, finishing somewhere between 6-10 and 10-6, teams like the Giants, Saints, Vikings, Packers, Chargers, etc, have hit rock bottom and then built themselves back up to the top. Meanwhile our model is to keep the same players around past their prime, (over)extending and overpaying one to keep another. Those examples now are guys like Portis,Betts, Samuels, Thomas, Griffin, Daniels, ARE. Then next wave will be Moss, Carter, McIntosh, Dockery, Rabach. Until we realize that sometimes its more prudent to just cut the cord and start anew, we are going to be in the same GroundHogs day predicament every year.

by CJHutch on Oct 9, 2009 2:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It was nice of you to include Baltimore

With the superior front office but they hit rock bottom a few years ago. 5-11 in 2007 after a 13-3 year.

by dr WNC on Oct 9, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

sure

but how many teams go from being that big of a debacle, to the conference championhip the following year. Especially when they are supposed to be in “rebuilding mode”, with a new coach, new QB, and new philosophy?
I hate to give kudos to the Ravens, but I will give credit where credit is due.

by CJHutch on Oct 9, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hate it too, but

if 5-11 is rock bottom, then you aren’t doin’ too shabby. They also had no QB to speak of that season and came the closest of anyone to upsetting New England’s undefeated bid. Their personnel decisions are always spot on, and it makes me sick.

by Boo. on Oct 9, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

agreed

Plus, their players ALWAYS have pride. If they lose one game, they refuse to do it again. Even in their “bad” season, nobody ever accused them of quitting. Maybe alot of it has to do with Ray Lewis, but at this point it’s instilled in all of them.

by CJHutch on Oct 9, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

they need to do some house cleaning and base it purely on performance, not salary. I’d rather take the salary cap hit then see a FA giving half his effort because he knows his job is safe.

by ZakInOmaha on Oct 9, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Front Office skills:

“Well, unless you have a superior FO like New England, Pittsburgh, or Baltimore, sometimes rebuilding is necessary.”

Until the Steel Curtain or it may have been when Art Rooney Sr. faded from the scene, Pittsburgh was not that great of a team for much of it’s history. Ownership stayed in the family, but management improved.

Baltimore has had a change of ownership, but the same player personnel (at least at the top). Newsome places emphasis on both offensive and defensive lines.

New England is interest because their roster is not all that expensive. Belichick seems to be able to mold a team out of minimal talent in many positions. Even he did not do that great at Cleveland. NE even trades down to get draft picks.

by Jefferson1935 on Oct 9, 2009 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

what's impressive

about Pittsburgh is THREE head coaches, SIX Superbowls in their history. All THREE have won. You can’t knock that no matter how hard you try.

Ozzie Newsome is Probably the best GM in the league. And Belicheck keeps that team stacked by stockpiling draft picks EVERY year. They have multiple 1st rounders every year, and usually parlay them into more.

by CJHutch on Oct 9, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's all very comical

how you guys think our players are the problem, BUT somehow other teams are going to give us draft picks for them if we “blow it up.” I’m not saying we don’t have deficiencies at certain positions, but so does every NFL team. The poor performances on the field this season have been a direct result of play-calling and execution of those plays. The overall quality and age of the players on our team is not the problem.

by VA_Skin on Oct 9, 2009 3:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

but I fully agree with VA_Skin

The team has the talent, IF properly used and motivated
With every player being treated the same

by dr WNC on Oct 9, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I completely agree

but I still think the overall problem with the organization is poor personnel decisions. Until that is rectified, we will never reach that upper echelon of teams that are considered contenders year in and year out. For now, I think we can simply hope for a year like Arizona’s where they get lucky, the stars align, and they vault past more talented teams for one season.

by CJHutch on Oct 9, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Which could be the Change THIS year

With 2010 being uncapped, the blowup could occur without any consequences

by dr WNC on Oct 9, 2009 3:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not the worst franchise but

the WORST owner. The travesty of this week not only makes the players and management look bad but the fans as well. Dan “Bizarro World” Snyder is living in a alternate universe, where black is white, left is right, up is down, and where being accountable for your actions means throwing everybody but yourself under the bus. What other teams in the NFL bring in consultants to attempt a quick fix? Memo to little boy danny there are no quick fixes in the NFL. I would love to be talking about football considering we are in FOOTBALL season. But the soap opera that is the washington redskins front office does not allow us to do so. But this type of of behavior by little boy danny is nothing new and we’ve dealt this type of nonsense for a long time, good god how sad is that!!

by jamie21224 on Oct 9, 2009 4:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not the worst owner...

Hello……. Al Davis, JJ, the ford family…….. All worse owners than Danny boy…. Although he may be next on that list………. He is near the bottom definately.

by NESKINSFAN on Oct 9, 2009 4:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Are you kidding,

you did not just throw Al Davis and Jerry Jones in with them. Al Davis has Superbowl rings and hell they even played in one in 2003. Al Davis is a old senile man and which has led to many poor decisions over the past 4 or 5 years but he has a pedigree. Jerry Jones has won three Superbowl rings. How many does little crybaby danny have? How many home playoff games has the little crybaby hosted? I’ll give the Ford Family but I don’t think they have ever sued their fans. Being the worst is not all about what transpires on the field. The little crybaby wins hands down.

by jamie21224 on Oct 9, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have to agree

with NESKIN. Sure, at one point Al Davis was a good owner. But he’s a debacle now. You think Zorn is bad, look at Tom Cable. At least Zorn isn’t beating up his assistant. Davis’ head coach may be in jail before the season is over. And Jones? C’mon. What happened when Jones actually started taking part in building the team? They went WAY south. Jimmy Johnson built the team that won 3 SuperBowls. Jerry Jones dismantled it, and built a never ending shipwreck in it’s place. And the Ford family very well may have sued their fans. When that report came out, the part not real publicized was when they said that 8 or 9 teams DON’T sue their fans for non payment.

Now, don’t mistake this comment for my pledge of allegiance to Danapolean. I’m just pointing out some facts. I still despise the little turd.

by CJHutch on Oct 9, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Danny is not my favorite person in the world

However i feel currently he is not the worst….. God I feel like a douche just standing up for him…… Davis is the walking dead….. Senile is not an excuse senile=worst owner. The ford family…….too easy…. Which Brings me to Public Enemy #1 JJ. This egomaniacal retard dropped an elite 2 time suberbowl qb in favor of tony romo. He built a monstrosity that I truley hopes bankrupts him. (i’m sure the stadiums nice) He hasn’t won without jimmy johnson. I see him as an OLD Synder and I hope that snyder will smarten up someday…… It could happen

by NESKINSFAN on Oct 9, 2009 5:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree completely with everything you said

including you being a douche.

by CJHutch on Oct 9, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Once again

HOW MANY SUPERBOWL RINGS DOES DANIEL SNYDER HAVE? Why are so many redskins fans in the tank for this guy? He has sued us, raped(money wise) us, and made us the laughing stock of the NFL. WHAT OTHER NFLTEAMS HAVE HIRED CONSULTANTS TO UNDERMINE THEIR HEAD COACH IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON? I’m putting these questions because in BOLD because nobody wants to answer them. When I tell people I’m a redskins fan I get two reactions the first is laughter and the other is shaking their head and saying what the hell is that little crybaby doing. So NE SKINS FAN what makes you think he can change? Vinny Cerrrato is still there and the little crybaby is still making all player personal decisions. This is the part that hurts redskins fans the most. DANIEL SNYDER DOES NOT CARE ABOUT WINNING, ALL HE CARES ABOUT IS THE BOTTOM LINE. I have ten years of proof, what’s yours?

by jamie21224 on Oct 10, 2009 11:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You're getting

a little carried away. I don’t think ANYONE is saying Snyder is a great, or even good, owner. We’re just saying he’s not THE WORST.

by CJHutch on Oct 10, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why are so many redskins fans in the tank for this guy?

Name 5. (Snyder’s wife and Cerrato don’t count). Not jumping on the bandwagon of every idiot and their brother blaming all of their life’s problems on Dan Snyder doesn’t make you a Snyder apologist.

DANIEL SNYDER DOES NOT CARE ABOUT WINNING, ALL HE CARES ABOUT IS THE BOTTOM LINE.

Winning SBs would increase Snyder’s bottom line exponentially.

by VA_Skin on Oct 10, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Said, Nuf!

by dr WNC on Oct 10, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not getting

carried away, I’m simply stating why he is the worst owner. Besides name calling you don’t have much of a case. Certainly you can a make case for the Ford Family being the worst owners. I’ll give them at least this, Matt Millen was the GM(and a Terrible one) but he was the one making the decisions. The Ford Family was not meddling around in every little detail of the team. There is a reason why this team does not draft offensive linemen it’s because their jerseys don’t sell as good as wide receivers and running backs.

VA Skin I know you just didn’t call me idiot and how was I blaming my problems on Dan Snyder? If your going to call me idiot come right out and say it. But I will no longer be a part of the Delusional Redskins fan base.

by jamie21224 on Oct 10, 2009 2:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Lay off the estrogen, dude

It was a general comment not directed at anyone in particular.

by VA_Skin on Oct 10, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Delusional-Where's the Finger pointing?

No one that I’ve seen on this sight will defend Daniel Snyder as a good or even average owner however to make a case against the Redskins compared to the other 31 teams as being the worst is bit Delusional (point 1)
The Redskins fan base while recognizing Daniel Snyder is not a good or even average owner do recognize he is the owner and therefore as the saying goes " a blind squirel will find a nut sometime" here’s to hope Daniel Snyder puts together a winnning team because anyone who think Daniel Snyder is selling the Redskins is Delusional (point 2)
Failure to understand Delusional from rational is Delusional (point 3)
Be careful where you point, as three points are pointing back at you…..Delusional one

by dr WNC on Oct 10, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's good to see you can read

but reading comprehension is not your strong suit. I admitted to being delusional and I have been for a long time but I’m not going be from here on out. I’m done with the commenting as well. Well, except for when the little crybaby brings in another geriatric to be a consultant or mole which undermines his entire coaching staff especially the head coach. The same head coach he personally selected and the same coach that not one of the other 30 teams in the NFL would even hire as a offensive coordinator. I hear Robert Kraft, Steve Bisciotti and Dan Rooney are looking for consultants. Hope your cozy in the NFC east cellar.

by jamie21224 on Oct 10, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

crying about every one of those points are valid

Saying the Redskins owner is the worse NFL owner is not

by dr WNC on Oct 11, 2009 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What do we do?

I know all of us are very frustrated with the way the Skins are playing right now. I am a Redskin fan from Virginia living and working in Japan and while I love my team and I will never give up on them I swear they try my patience every week. I am getting tired of making excuses about why JC can’t take his game to the next level. For every pretty touchdown he throws there are 2 or 3 really bad interceptions to counterbalance them. For what like ten years now our mantra has been to buy alot of old free agents and completely forget the draft and we have to change that. The draft is where the future is bulit and we have ignored that for forever and just focus on the free agent market. Coach Gibbs brought us back some respect and a few winning seasons but now we are back to struggling…really? We can’t score more than 20 points? We lost to the Panthers and the Lions? Uh…painful but I won’t give up but alot has to change…..and fast if we are going to salvage this season at all.

by Artmonkr4life on Oct 11, 2009 7:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs