MK and DT dont get JC treatment, Why???
by Pommylee on Oct 31, 2009 11:08 AM EDT
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Let me say off the bat here, that this is a GENUINE QUESTION, NOT A STATEMENT
I honestly do come to this site to feed off all of your knowledge so beleive me this is a question
Now I have a propensity to give JC thje benefit of the doubt, due to a few factors, his dignity in the face of disgraceful treatment by ownership thsi summer, the fact that he throws a beautiful spiral, his good feet, his low interception rate and mainly because of his O-Line, I just feel he has never been given a fair go behind a solid O-Line
However, we give JC a lot of leeway based on a poor o-line and ackowledge he has to get the ball out to quickly and under pressure due to the poor line, but we do not give Davis, Thomas and Kelly this same benefit, surely if JC is being rushed, that means they dont have as much time to finish their routes and get open, surely if JC is being hurried, he does not have as much time to go through his reads and look beyond Tana and see if THomas and Kelly are open
Basically my point is WR's live and die by their QB, QB's live and die by their O-line, so if the O-line is hurting Campbell then it is hurting them as well yet JC gets defended a lot on this site and in the press (and more than likely rightly so) yet poor Devin and Malcolm and even Fred do not get this same benefit of the doubt treatment
I hope what i Have written makes sense and look forward to the always sensible and informative response from the rest of you on this site
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you have a valid point
IMO. Also consider that JC is not suited to the WCO and therefore makes many mistakes that could be eliminated by the proper system and, as you state, a good offensive line.
JC was drafted by Gibbs to fit into his style team, and his style required a strong-armed, drop-back passer, which I believe JC is. JC would have thrived in a run-first, smashmouth, air-it-out style that was Gibbs trademark. Too bad Jason never got the opportunity to play in a system like that.
by grandpa grouse on Oct 31, 2009 12:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Just look at
Jay Shroeder and Mark Rypien. Not the best QBs, but Rypien had Pro Bowl numbers and won a Super Bowl. But he had the whole equation, Line, WRs, Time to let plays develop, and a big arm. The Skins had decent receivers in Clark and of course Art Monk, and the Smurfs, but they had the advantage of surprise! this is a pass play and you guys are in single coverage.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
by Scott E on Oct 31, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
WHAT?!?!?!
Vinny Ceratto says you have no clue what your talking about, he hired Jim Zorn because this is the perfect WCO offense team and this is still a playoff team this year. Blame Zorn says Vinny. Now let him get back to figuring out how to make more money with some concerts they could plan at Fedex and lets see if it could cause some more season ending injuries from a torn up field. Don’t blame Vinny and Dan, they love this team.
by skinsymets on Oct 31, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Our opponents also have the advantage
of knowing that all they have to do is occupy our receivers at the line of scrimmage for 1.5 seconds and they will have defeated the play. So they can go man to man right in our receivers’ faces and use the extra man to put more pressure on Jason or to help stuff the running game. That’s why I nearly shat myself when we didn’t draft any linemen last Spring.
Very rarely in life do you get an accurate view of what the world will look like 6-8 months going forward. This situation with our line is not even a case of hindsight is 20-20. It was predictable with near certainty. Our best 2 linemen were coming off surgeries in the off season and the rest of the group was a hope and a prayer. Now we’ve got less than that by most standards. And they all make millions (players, coaches, FO)!!
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
by Scott E on Oct 31, 2009 2:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Lets just say
That Rodgers from Green Bay has been sacked 5 more times than Campbell look at how his year is going. Campbell leads the NFL with 8 fumbles. He has one INT less than TDs and one less than Jamarcus Russell.
He is a mess. He could be better but he does not play with any fire in his ass.
"The rich wage WAR and the POOR die!!!"
by milcmann on Oct 31, 2009 7:10 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Lets just say ..
That Cutler was a superstar at Denver last year now he is a interception machine. Let’s just say that Kyle Orton was a Dud at Chicago last year now he is a Stud at Denver. Let’s just say that Matt Cassell was a Stud last year at New england now he is a Dud at Kansas City.
Let’s just say that with a good Offensive line and creative play calling/ pass routes/ receivers most QB’s can look like super stars in this league.
Let’s just say that Santa Moss is no Donald Driver and Jim Zorn is not a creative play caller (Thank God for Sherm Lewis ).
Give Campbell a O- line he will be a top ten or better QB easy. Draft a rookie QB and we will be back to square one.
by LETJASONPASS on Nov 1, 2009 5:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps
Give Campbell a O- line he will be a top ten or better QB easy. Draft a rookie QB and we will be back to square one.
OR, give Campbell an O-line and we’re back to 8-8 and drafting in the middle of the draft rounds again where great QB prospects are out of reach.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvIX3S0f-2c&feature=player_embedded
by VA_Skin on Nov 1, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's just say
most likely 8-8 with a few more turnovers (fumbles) than the average QB.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
by Scott E on Nov 3, 2009 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I totally agree with everything you said.
But the play calling does not thrown INTs. The play calling does not drop snaps and fumble so many times. You are totally right about all of the QBs listed above. Now lets give all of them 4 years (like campbell) and see where they are.
"The rich wage WAR and the POOR die!!!"
by milcmann on Nov 3, 2009 12:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
they haven’t been starters very long. i’m ready to start giving them the treatment, tho. let’s make this happen
THE TREATMENT IS COMING, MALCOLM. YOU ARE WARNED
by bloodbat on Nov 1, 2009 11:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
OK it appears I did not make any sense
when I said JC treatment, I meant the benefit of the doubt that many, including myself, give him.
It just appears that we are willing to forgive JC’s mistakes and lack of production due to the poor O-line, yet we do not give this same benefit of the doubt to Thomas and Kelly, when after seeing what Davis did after Cooley left the game and Zorn was stripped of play calling, i think we should.
Far be it from me to censor what is written, but it appears that we have done the "its not campbells fault, its the o-line argument a thousand times (AND RIGHTLY SO, AND IT SHOULD BE ARGUED A THOUSAND MORE) what I am looking for in this particular question however is your views on Kelly Thomas and Davis…. Have they been given a fair go?? could they be better than they have been allowed to show??? etc etc
Pommylee
by Pommylee on Nov 1, 2009 5:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
IMHO
The young receivers haven’t been given a fair chance. Like you said, just look at what Fred Davis did against the Eagles. Did Davis all of a sudden get more talented, or become a better player Monday night? No. He was given a chance, and he actually performed well. Thomas was given a chance in the end zone as well and he caught that TD.
Also, when Thomas was interviewed that night, he was telling the Comcast Sportsnet announcers how he wants to have more of a role for this offense just how Deseasn Jackson has with the Eagles. Thomas wants to be able to return kickoffs, punts, or anything else he can do to help this team. He said he constantly talks to the coaches to about returning kickoffs and punts, but they just wouldn’t listen to him. You could tell that Thomas was frustrated that the coaches won’t let him have more of an expanded role for the team.
Yes, the young receivers have made mistakes (remember that Desean Jackson gaffe where he let go of the ball before he crossed the goal line against Dallas?) but no receiver, nor player for that matter is going to play perfectly every single snap of the ball. If the ball isn’t thrown their way, they can’t catch it. However, if they’re targeted, (like Fred Davis was against the Eagles) they’ll make plays for us.
by bigrm18 on Nov 1, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have a theory on this
Silly as it may sound to begin with so please stick with me
I think a lot of this problem is on the fact Zorn was an NFL QB.
Think about a QB’s life for a second, not just his play or his NFL career, think of his life
In high school , he was the golden child, hot girlfriends the works, has a whole bunch of ppl telling him how good he is all the time, then College its the same and all along he would have been the best at everything, you dont get to the NFL like Zorn did unless you were an absolute superstar High Schoola nd College QB, so all the way through life he has been the star and all the problems are everyone elses fault, so when he sees a fellow QB struggle, his immeadiate reaction is “oh the routes weren’t run correctly” of “he should have caught that” whatever, basically a QB can blame a receiver for pretty much anything that goes wrong, so I think Zorn would look at these young receivers and they are so much easier to blame than the guy HE HAS SPENT ALL HIS TIME TRAINING, cos if he blames Campbell he is blaming himself in a way, he is admitting that his training is not up to scratch, so every little mistake Thomas Kelly and Davis make is magnified in his eyes so he has NO TRUST AT ALL IN THEM,
This coupled with an O-line that gives JC 2 seconds to make a decision means half the time they dont get looked at even,. I bet Zorn is telling Campbell to look at Moss then Cooley first every time, but then because of the O-Line JC does not even get to look for Thomas and Kelly, but then Sherm comes along, Cooley gets injured and whooah its a miracle we find when given an opportunity these guys are actually quite good
Pommylee
by Pommylee on Nov 1, 2009 7:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just could be that...
The O-line, the WRs AND JC suck. There is evidence to suggest the truth in that the numbers are pretty grim and other QBs have been able to adjust and even thrive on JC’s 2 seconds of protection of which in many cases he uses about 1.2 before dumping the ball – see Santana wide open on the pump fake for a TD against Philly. Pump fake worked, yet JC dumped off without going back to the primary play.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
by Scott E on Nov 2, 2009 8:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that pump fake miss was unforgivable,
I like to defend Campbell but that was just indefensible, I mean why fake then look away, its not basketball where no look passes are the go, its Football, draw the corner then make him pay, and campbell drew the corner and looked away… craziness
Pommylee
by Pommylee on Nov 2, 2009 8:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just another
religious moment in the saga of this season. Jesus Christ!
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
by Scott E on Nov 3, 2009 10:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I understood your question
just got off on a tangent, sorry. But I was trying to make the point that it’s the system (along with the OL) that keeps JC (and the WRs) from realizing their potential. So, I can’t tell if the WRs are good or not. Not enough opportunities for them to tell.
As for why I think JC dumps off so much is that he doesn’t trust the OL to provide protection (even on the rare occasions it does), and therefore feels rushed whether he is or not. He trusts Moss, El, and Cooley, that’s why they are always his first options.
We might get to see if the young WR are any good if we can fix the OL and try to embrace a system that utilizes the talent that’s available and not try to force the players into a system that’s not right for them.
by grandpa grouse on Nov 2, 2009 9:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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